Collusion in U.K. Poker Rooms
Hello All,
New member, just joined today because I looking for answers to something that has been bothering me. I am looking for advice on whether this behaviour 'Is to be expected' and I'm being naïve not to anticipate it or I've just run into a couple of odd occurrences (which I doubt). I suspect the answer is that I have run into a couple of games where the regulars thought I was a wealthy fish new to their game and have tried it on.
I've been playing poker from Stud to HE for 20+ years now, I'm aged mid fifties. Read the book and the second and am pretty addicted to most if not all Poker shows (Triton, PokerGo, Onyx and Hustlers). I Have played all over the world in many poker rooms, mostly for recreation at stakes up to 10/20. The biggest hand I have ever played was for about 25k so I've been around the block a few times.
I have in the last year started playing in most if not all of the live rooms that I can get to quite easily. Around 1-2 times per week. The stakes are mostly 1/2 with a max buy in of £500, 1/3-£1000 or 2/5-£2500 all NLHE.
Here are the 2 occasions where I have witnessed blatant collusion. Just for added background, I am a Pianist and a Musician so have my hearing checked regularly and it performs at an age level of a 25 year old.
1) Casino in central London. Game 1/2 with most players holding around 1K. 3P layers at the far end (Seats 1-3) from me were joking and laughing with each other all night. A reasonably big hand came up which I wasn't involved in but another player at my end of the table was (Seat 7). The betting was pretty normal and the pot got up to about £300 by the river. Seat 1 and 2 check and Seat 3 bets about £80. Seat 7 then moves All-in (for about £400). Seat 1 and 2 fold. I then hear Seat 3 and 2 whispering to each other and I clearly hear the words "Ace Jack" which would have been the nuts. Seat 3 postures for a while and then folds. I Then turn to Seat 7 (The hand is over by this point and he has won the pot) and say, "If you can show a bluff I would absolutely love it". He does indeed show a bluff and I look in the eyes of Seats 1-3 and while laughing out very loud say "That's what you get for colluding". I know that I should not get involved in hands in which I'm not involved but this felt so wrong, I could not help it. Seat 7 them remonstrates, he's very angry and I am not letting it go. Let's just say, it ended quite badly (verbal threats and shouting) but before I walked away I asked the dealer "Did you hear what was said?", he said No. I Also asked seat 3 whether he would deny that the words "Ace Jack" were whispered, he didn't and continued his verbal insults. Play continued for 2 more hands before I decided to walk, whilst I did I had some choice words for the dealer.
2) Casino bordering London (Reading). Game is 1/2 with most players holding around £500 which a couple holding more than 1K, I have about £900. I'm in Seat 8 and get into a hand with Seat 3, 4 and 7. There is about £150 in the pot the flops comes out, I have the betting lead but with slim holdings. Seat 3 & 4 check, Seat 7 bets about £50 which I call. I Then hear seat 3 whisper to seat 4 "Are you squeezing?", I did not hear a response. Lo and behold Seat 3 folds and Seat 4 raises to about £170. Seat 7 folds and so do I. I just carried on playing in this instance for a while longer. Didn't get into it with anyone as it was a reasonably small pot.
Any feedback would be appreciated. Even it's as blunt as "These things go on all the time, you are being naïve".
I have a lot of love for the game. I can handle losing in a straight up game, even to the luckiest of players which I can laugh off easily. But, I'm starting to think that these things happen regularly and for that reason I should avoid these particular players or the casinos completely.
8 Replies
Yes you should avoid games where there is collusion and avoid casinos where they are so confident the casino does not care they do it in the open.
Fair enough. Stupid question posed I guess. But doing so would leave me in a bit of a bind given the rarity of live games in/near town.
Hello All, New member, just joined today because I looking for answers to something that has been bothering me. I am looking for advice on whether this behaviour 'Is to be expected' and I'm being naïve not to anticipate it or I've just run into a couple of odd occurrences (which I doubt). I suspect the answer is that I have run into a couple of games where the regulars though
I played some 6 card PLO at Empire and 2 regs were on their phone messaging each other mid hand. I let the floor know multiple times but they did nothing about it.
I also happened to have a seizure there due to a flashing light and they kinda just called the ambulance on me to kick me out with my friend when I’m fine when I come to anyways 😀 They handed the money to my friend (fortunately he’s trusted) without any consent from me for a good 4 figures.
Conveniently, Hippodrome down the road randomly wanted to routinely affordability check me a few weeks later after trying to set up a wire transfer with them (played 2/5/10 and 5/10/25 just fine with them before) and got in writing an admittance that they’re doing it because they assume I can’t afford to play now that I’m disabled.
Do not trust these casinos at all imo.
Oh yeah I also had the time where I reported to Hippodrome 2 players obviously colluding with each other to the point that at showdown at least 1 or 2 of them would muck their hand and all of the classic backraising or weird line shenanigans when they were both in the hand. They did nothing about that either.
So it's obviously quite commonplace which is a real shame.
I rarely play at the Hippodrome because I find it so Claustrophobic. I also find that it's basically become a trap for wealthy tourists which is fine if you're a pro who is on a pay schedule, but I'm not and find the challenge pretty unsatisfying.
I find that the dealers are mostly hit and miss in the U.K. Swinging between those who are doing their monitoring job attentively and those who migrated from table games and think their job is just to hand out cards. Another big problem I have, and I hope that no-one takes this the wrong way because it is a fact ; many of the dealers in the U.K. don't have English as their first language and I have a low, quite voice. I regularly have to repeat myself with verbal bet sizes which affects my game.
I've also had a dealer (whilst I was in the bathroom) give one of my stacks to another player who busted in exchange for cash (which was slid behind my stack) without my consent. I protested but was told in no uncertain terms that it's acceptable and 'Keeps the game going'. The cashier was about 10 feet away.
I got hit by the affordability check about a month ago when I started visiting regularly (even though a had a large credit on my playroom card), bloody stupid.
I'm guessing things are a lot better at Dusk Till Dawn, but I'm not driving that far on a regular basis.
Thank You for the responses. It's helped me confirm what I think I knew already. I have no other choice but to just be more vigilant and avoid tables with the players I know collude.
So it's obviously quite commonplace which is a real shame. I rarely play at the Hippodrome because I find it so Claustrophobic. I also find that it's basically become a trap for wealthy tourists which is fine if you're a pro who is on a pay schedule, but I'm not and find the challenge pretty unsatisfying. I find that the dealers are mostly hit and miss in the U.K. Swinging bet
Sadly assuming you want to be safe it is not that simple. If the casino allows blatant collusion and cheating there are two types players at the table; the cheaters and the suckers. Thinking the only cheaters are those that do it so blatantly you can't help but notice in a few hours is not correct.
Sadly assuming you want to be safe it is not that simple. If the casino allows blatant collusion and cheating there are two types players at the table; the cheaters and the suckers. Thinking the only cheaters are those that do it so blatantly you can't help but notice in a few hours is not correct.
Yeah I hear what you are saying but I'm confident in my play and luck.
But Thank you
Apologies, that last reply seems really obtuse.
There are about 4 casinos within reach of me. Only one of them has enough tables (20) whereby the regulars and would be pros do not always end up on the same table.
Some have only 2 tables operating which means the same players, say after day sat at the same table.
The big casino generally has around 20-30 people on the waiting list which is a problem for me.
My choices are slim but now I realise this type of thing goes on (I'm sure there are plenty on here that are well aware of it) I go to a table with my eyes a bit wider open.
It's frustrating and shameful but the lack of decent poker rooms forces my decision.
I like to play, even if the odds are stacked that little bit more against me and the so-called wannabe pro's that have to use these angles to support their bank balance are often not actually that good.
