[5-5]: A combodraw in a limped pot

I'd raise, but I'm not at all sure it's right and am pretty sure it's wrong. It is fantastic to go for glory with 72 in a game where people are clowning around, whether you win or lose, it's good for the game. When what's good for the game comes with likely a solid chunk of equity, so much the better.

The small stack makes things interesting, normally I'd make it something like 150 to discourage non-nut FDs, but if V jams this easily turns into three flats and we're in an ugly spot if the turn bricks. People love flatting shortstack jams.

So maybe make it 100, hope the shortstack jams and doesn't just flat, and we have the option to reopen the action.

Flatting and just trying to realize our equity is probably the smarter move for the hand, but it's a lot less fun. If we light the spark that leads to all the money at the table in the middle, we're losing frequently and just hoping whale proves to be a whale and we beat him for a refund. While we are getting really good odds to call and try to bink, and can get away if we hit but a V makes it clear they have a bigger flush.

So weigh your wallet and decide whether you're willing to gamble for the sake of the game. I'd be sending the boss a text "Going to be a late night" and light the fuse. Or you can play what's probably going to be solver approved when AI figures out 5 way donkey fests and call.

Call. This draw is just not that good.

I'm definitely not making any plays because I want the game to be good or because this hand is a meme; I don't care. The description just matters because it widens the ranges of everyone else.

It might even be a fold, because there is a good chance there is a higher flush draw out there multiway. Then you have a one card gutshot. This is a very wet board. There are likely better straight draws out there, and maybe a 2-pair. Obvious, you didn't play this hand voluntarily, be there is a reason 72o is considered the worst hand. Hard to make anything with it.

You should care about these things. Having a good image and playing in a good game are good.

I would consider betting this flop. I like to have a bunch of small bets in these spots because it checks around too often, you can start telling a story and at times you will have a monster and want to get the pot going.

AP call is ok. I kinda like making it 90.

Short stack bet, medium called, big called. That's good cuz we don't really care what short stack has and each caller is less likely to be very strong.

This is ideal. We want the deeper stacks to be capped and awkward.

Like is shorty jams, other Vs are in a spot, since we can re jam. Even if he just calls, it is a weird spot for them going forward.

Someone can have a higher flush draw and someone can even have a made straight or you could make your straight and run into a better straight. What is this, automatically raise multiway because you have a combo draw?

Honestly think call might be the worst option.

If we call pot is going to be at least 130 on the turn and V1 should shove his 155 in on almost everything, the main exceptions being the cards we hit.

6 outs to the straight are our best turns, as we'll have a redraw but then it'll be kind of obvious someone can have a 7x ... and we still lose piles (if not everything) to random 97 if it's a 4 on the turn. Also two of those 6 outs mean clubs get there and there can be multiple redraws.

Our flush is basically a bluff catcher if we hit.

We do have position, but it's going to be in a bloated pot super multiway on a wet board ... and we'll be torching 25 so often I can't see how it's good.

On the other side we can have any2, so all combos. of 97 and 74 ... or even 85. There are some monster hands that have us in bad shape, and if LJ+CO want to put a lot in (but no sign of that, atm) it's going to be a bad time. Welcome to multiway poker.

We are more than happy to get all in vs. V1 for only 180, so either raise to 180 or if you want to get spicy then raise to 100 so that he has to decide between fold or shove and reopens the betting if he shoves. The main problem with being spicy is if he fish calls, and we go 4 ways to the turn. Also pretty bad if he shoves and CO cold calls the 180 total.

Yeh, we might not be able to get folds from CO with NFD which isn't great ... but getting folds from QJs/JTs/etc is worth a lot.

Folding is fine ... might even be GTO, but I would make sure I never told anybody.

It's not automatic. It has to do with the ranges and stacks of our opponents.

Obviously people could have better hands. This is usually the case. We certainly don't want to get it in for 1200 vs the cutoff if he has us crushed. Though "crushed" here is something like 9 outs with 3 chop outs.

However, he is facing a big bet and a call with people yet to act behind. Most Vs are going to raise a straight.

The one player who is totally uncapped is the short stack. We don't really care what he has. Nobody can have a made straight with a flush draw.

While the other players are not literally capped, it is increasingly unlikely that they are slow playing the nuts and they cannot have like A7s to be open ended with a better fd.

74 makes a little sense but they'd have to limp in with that.

If you were LJ with 2 pair, what would you do facing a CR with a guy behind you? What if you has a non nut fd?

To add to what ES2 said ... it also depends on the combo. draw. Even something as strong as K♠6♠ is a much better combo. draw to not raise. Also given we have 16 combos. of the nuts and another 16 of the second nuts, we probably want to be raising a lot of combo. draw hands and holding the 7♠ the worst cases are significantly reduced. If fact T♠9♠ and then other *♠9♠ hands are our worst matchups, and some of those are the most likely to fold if we raise.

Continuation:

I thought this hand was strong enough to raise, and also that CO might call a small raise (like 110 or something), so...

Hero raises to 200. BB folds. UTG+2 calls all-in. LJ folds. CO calls.

Turn (625€😉: Q♠
Hero checks, CO bets 160, Hero ???

CO didn't think much at all about either decision

He’s betting into a tiny side pot when both opponents are uncapped and hero likely has a strong hand.

I think hero should bet fold turn.

Not sure if we should bet or check turn (lots of hands that raise flop aren't flushes, so would assume we want to check most or all of range ... but OD suggested bet, and the hand itself probably prefers bet). Also hitting our hand and hoping it goes x/x is a bit weird ... but here we are.

Spot kind of sucks now, but even with the almost dry side pot I think he can bet some worse hands "for value". Esp. given previous reads.

From a theory POV I can't see a solver ever folding a flush on this turn, esp. for this size, but obv. live players aren't going to have betting solver ranges here.

IMO the real problem is going to be the river, and reading his hand if he decides 66 is value on a brick.

Probably call 1st scenario

You hit your hand on the turn and checked to a whale who might not even see the flush get there - you said he didn’t see the straight previously. Luckily, he bet

Not looking under the bed, just ready to get it in. Only question being whether to trust him to bet again. I don’t think so

Would check-raise turn to 320. Double his bet, I find this usually gets called.

Bring the River!

I think you can just fold the flop tbh.

Flop raise is really bad. Get into situations like this with a low flush. Combo draw looks good, but both draws are not good.

I too was thinking we should raise the flop and represent a strong hand, but after thinking about it, we're just compounding the problem. There are a ton of hands in a limped pot that like this flop and aren't going to fold. If somebody calls with a made hand and another calls with a draw you're cooked. Better to take the low variance route and get out cheaply by folding flop.

On the turn, I'd say you're probably cooked. There's no reason to be bluffing this turn with one player already all in, and he's represented a flush draw quite nicely so far. No reason not to believe him.

As far as villian having worse value hands: I don't think two pair is going to bet the turn when one player is already all in and both of you can have a flush. A set is most likely raising the flop, ditto with a straight.

However, the pot odds probably justify a turn call on the off-chance he slow-played the flop and is betting with one of those hands. You think if he had a flush he would bet more. You even beat some flushes so I'm changing my mind to calling the turn, with the intention of folding to a big river bet.

Reveal:

This is what I thought:

Hero folds. I don't remember the hands exactly but both villains had a 7 and no spade. V1 may have flopped the straight, CO had I think 6♦7♦ or something ridiculous like that. Might have been offsuit, too.

I rarely get upset when I lose hands, but this one tilted me. A lot. I think more than any other hand I've ever played. I'm fine getting outplayed by better players, or getting outdrawn, but this... what a stupid way to lose 200€. Just. Why is he value betting this hand on the Turn, it's so stupid. I was so titled that I couldn't bring myself to write this down until later, this is why I don't know the hands exactly.

Yea, that was a much better read of the scenario than I had.

The issue really is that I just don't have any experience with this type of player. They almost don't exist at my game. There are people I'd call whales, but they don't do stuff like this. I can remember maybe half a dozen players who were on the level of just completely misreading situations, but I think all of them played short-stacked, like they buy in for 100 or 150. I don't remember playing someone who did stuff like this and had over 1000 chips, ever. So I guess I completely misread it and did the worst thing possible.

And yea, obviously the guy is allowed to play the game however he wants, and I have no right to be upset about it, and if I am it's my problem.

That all said I don't get everyone who said fold flop. The Flop action isn't that strong; this hand is way ahead of everyone's ranges on the Flop. They all just flatted a raise except for UTG+2, who is short. And in fact we had 100% equity on the Turn.

I don't mean this in a bad way but you folded the turn and are tilted by it but then you say you don't understand why the flop may be a fold. That doesn't make sense.

There's a bet and two calls. You have a super obvious straight draw that chops a lot with other players, and nothing close to a nut spade draw. You can't play it aggressively when it hits and are going to be very lost in the hand.

Whether or not you had 100% equity in this exact hand is irrelevant.