Is opening very large a leak against very loose tables?

This is a fine strategy.

Opening to 20~25 to narrow the field is fine.

If you still get it multiway alot, try 30+.

Just don't go too crazy postflop. Because some players will tighten their calling range to your bigger opens. Some players even flat qq+/ak+ vs bigger opens.

If a player has been opening to 12 and now makes it 25 I’ll flat QQ, sure. But if he always makes it 25 and has shown down KJo I’ll 3b QQ.

There are different styles. I don't like it, because you kind of force them to call correctly. Also, it is hard to do this with your whole range, so I don't like opening tighter or giving information. At a loose table, I will raise my opening size somewhat though.

Someone opened to 30 UTG+1 at 1/3 recently and it wasn't a loose table. I folded AQo and he took the blinds.

Very rough advice...

As you starting opening 4bb-6bb the things to think about are:

1. Do people start folding correctly as I make it bigger.

2. Do people start 3betting enough that it becomes bad, esp. so for short stacks that can easily start shoving if there's 20bb+ in the pot when it gets to them.

3. SPR will be significantly lower post, and this can make it easier for others to play their hands (esp. when it gets to the point of being a calling station is close to GTO). This also means you never get those low stakes juicy 12x pot "cooler" spots.

4. It makes it higher variance where one open and a cbet can be a 40bb pot.

5. Opening for this size with the bottom of your range is bad in theory, and can put you in annoying spots where theory would suggest you should be a calling station.

As you open 7bb+ those all become bigger problems, esp. when you fold for 40m and are then UTG and see something like 77 but don't want to split your range. And if you do it "too much" people will start limping good hands just for your juicy raises, and if you don't do it much you'll start winning the blinds and/or everytime you play from EP it goes 6 ways to the flop.

tl;dr Sometimes you have to just shrug and get used to playing multiway pots.

What are you buying in for? 15 seems big if you are just buying in for 300. If you are buying in for 500 this seems reasonable.

Why does it matter what is considered a "normal raise"?

I've heard that we should raise smaller in EP. Is this correct? I usually raise to 10 in EP and then 12-15 in later position. I'll open up more with bigger hands if I can exploit looser players.

It matters what is considered a normal raise in that you get about the same number of callers opening to 15 as to 12.

I don't think stack size matters. If I am 3-betting, I may go a little smaller with a shorter stack, as they will see I am committed and they don't have good odds to draw if the raise is a big portion of my stack.

I usually open larger in ep than I would in late position without limpers. A full table of players usually has hands they want to play. There are often limpers, so the late position raises wind up bigger. If it is folded to me in CO or BTN, I will open a little smaller, as no point in stealing the blinds.

100% uniform, small raises at lsnl are leaving money on the table.

If you see a player making this mistake, even winner, it's a pretty good sign he is on the ABC side.

That's what I meant. If large raises are standard, like 4-5xBB with no limpers, then I raise that size.

I am not going to raise more than what is standard for the table. Some people do that, which has plus or minuses, as has been discussed ITT.

If the raise sizes are large, it's more reasonable, and the issues illiterati raised exist.

But, like, essentially nobody exploits you by 3! More if you size up.

There are still going to be spots where not sizing up is just bad. Mainly against Vs who are calling very wide and don't really care much about thie size.

If you want to CYA you can mix in some variations. You can raise weaker hands small in mp and some strong hands small in ep. You can occasionally raise big in lp with a weaker hand when the blinds fold a lot or someone has a tell that they don't like their hand. Etc.

There will also be spots where, say, someone has posted or you just lost a pot and you can increase your raise size with premiums because it looks like you are doing it for other reasons.

If you size up at low stakes, you will generally be 3! less, particularly if it isn't obvious you are raising large a lot. Small raises do have a tendency to get 3! more, particularly if you vary sizing.

Yes, at least all solvers do this.

GTOwiz @100bb is 2bb from UTG to HJ, 2.3bb on CO, 2.5bb on BTN.

Smash live cash @100bb is 2.25bb UTG to CO, 2.5bb on BTN
Smash live cash @400bb is 2.25bb UTG to HJ, 2.5bb on CO, 3bb on BTN

In general at 1-2 I start to open 4bb EP and 6bb after.
In general at 2-5 I start to open 3bb before HJ and 4bb after.

Very infrequently do I size down at 1-2, often I'll size up vs. bad players at 2-5.

6bb is probably too much, but 5bb is pretty common anyway and rake is slightly better at 6bb. Also sometimes I've ended up at 8bb and people still call the same.

From the solvers' point of view, there are issues of stealing the blinds and of frequent 3!s. Seems irrelevant with huge opens anyway at low stakes live. It is not like we are opening 2.3 x BB.

Nobody really pays attention, does anything about it or cares at low stakes so I alter some raise sizing depending on hand strength, position, image, villains, stacks etc. It's totally fine to do this live. If they're going to call 6x with worse then absolutely blast it with premiums. But don't be afraid to open less with some hands if nobody is 3betting, just don't get carried away and open trash.

It's a very large leak not to raise larger. At some point you do need to tighten up your opening range, but you're already playing pretty tight for a splashy live game. Also, it matters greatly what the average stack size is. As a generaly rule of thumb, I'm happy to raise up to about 5% of the expected effective stack because then if its 3! call, the SPR will be around 3x and if it remains a SRP, then you have 6x+ SPR even if two people call. That gives you enough room to have options post flop.

So if you are only $300 deep, then you probably want to cap your raises around $15 unless you are exploiting someone or tighten up your range to hands that you're fine barreling off on a lot of flops. If you're playing $500 deep, go for $25 if that will effectively get you to 2 or fewer callers reasonably frequently. If you're playing $1, 000+ deep then by all means go for that $30-$40 sizing if necessary.

Of course it depends on stack depth a lot but basically what illiterat said, think of it as a trade off. Last time I did the EV math I ran AA against one or several capped ranges (assumes SRP), long story short your EV doesnt really change with sizing if 10$ gets 8 callers, 15$ gets 4, 20$ gets 2 and 25$ gets it heads up...you'll lose more often MW of course but when you win the pot will be bigger vs the other extreme - shove pre and win 99% of the time but only a very small pot.

What I've found is that people GROSSLY under 3-bet and GROSSLY over call pre. I play a wide range pre and a lot of those hands are juicers - J9s, 44, A2s ... I only want to open 10$ with these hands because as I go bigger I start value owning myself (even with Vs over calling), I also make the pot unmanageable and theres commitment issues pre and post at low SPR. If people DO raise my 10$ open then I either have a slam dunk fold with J9s or a slam dunk 4! with my AA...

tldr: playing against a very small bet is very tricky and often more difficult than playing against a large bet, just get comfy playing MW (aka bingo)

Yeah, I don't usually open raise to 10 in 1/3 or with as wide a range as Banana. However, if I raise 44 to 12 and get 4 callers, that is a better result than if I raise to 20 and get 1 caller. If I raise JTs to 20 and get 1 caller, that is usually going to be from a better hand than JTs.

Sure, you can raise big just with 99+/AQ+ or some tighter range. However, a lot of fish raise bigger with big hands, and some people will get an idea what type of hand you have.

Plus if you are getting 4 callers, some of those are really marginal hands, and by raising big, we are just forcing them to call correctly.

it just depends on the table if people realize you are opening 22 percent to 8bbs and start 3-betting you 20 percent of the time to 25BB to counter you its not going to be fun but since that won't happen at 95% of low stakes tables you prob are fine tightening up a smidge and raising bigger, you honestly could get away opening a 3-bet range as your RFI range to 5bbs in the games I play and just structurally have the edge in big pots. Just kind of boring IMO and have to remember that live the large raises sizes and multi-way play will jack up your variance.

Another tidbit I'd add: even though I open small and have larger SPRs as a result when I hit, I don't really find it that hard to get the money in vs fish. My pool will call down basically their entire stack with KJ on K-7-2 if I keep each bet reasonable.

dissuading multiway is a mistake imo. that is how you make your money in low stakes, by weak players putting money in with ranges that are too wide.

i also think an open to 20 without a straddle on is a mistake too. but the 1/3 near me is 500 max. so maybe yours is different

you dont want people to alter their preflop play based on your sizing. if they start flatting JJ, QQ, AK your going to be in a world of hurt postflop unless you are super nitty.

i have a rule to "stay within the mean" - if some open to 15, some open to 20 then my open will be 15 or 20 depending on position. hand reading is super difficult in a field of loose passives and opening to a sizing that changes their perception ( i.e. they flat QQ vs 25-30 but will 3b vs 15-20) will not work out well for you in the long run.

If our raise size causes opponents to blunder by not 3! appropriately, that is fantastic for us. If someone is flatting with QQ, they are folding every time an ace or a king comes off on the flop. We are winning a bunch of hands that we shouldn't and we are seeing the flop way cheaper then we would if the opponent three bet a normal raise. I fail to see how that is anything but good for us.

The risk we are taking by raising larger, is that we are probably going to the flop with a wider and weaker range than we should be in theory. Our opponents could easily exploit us by 3!ing light or playing aggressive post flop because our raising range wouldn't be able to stand the heat. If you are raising 7-8bb And someone to your left identifies that you're raising range is weaker than it should be and starts to 3! a lot, You will simply be losing too much with all of your give ups.

My understanding is the reason solvers like to open with small bet sizes, is because they are playing solvers that are going to three bet frequently and a large portion of the range has to just give up. Obviously that becomes very expensive if you're betting 6bb vs 2.5. If opponents are not going to three bet anything but super premiums then raising larger is not as much of a risk.

I don't understand how you make it work. Do you just play a very tight range for large raises? Do you have 2 sizings, and are they at all balanced? Do you limp/reevaluate with 44/JTs/KQo, etc.?

Sometimes you get many callers anyway, sometimes it is 2 or 3 handed, sometimes you steal the blinds.

When you get it HU, aren't you likely against another strong hand? So is the purpose to get it HU so more chance your overpair or TPTK/TPGK holds up, and if not you can cbet and barrel and try to get the opponent to fold?

It seems like you are playing more face up, which is supposed to be OK because they are all fish. Then you are forcing them to call with closer to correct ranges.

I just try to stay consistent and stick with whatever raise gets 1 - 3 callers.

In my loose somehow passive but at the same time tight 1/2 game, they will call $10 - $15 w/ the same range, and at least three of them will call up to $20 with that same range -- any pair, suited K, suited connectors, suited one gappers, almost any Ace. I usually stick to $10 - $15 plus some for limpers depending on who's there. That seems to get the best results.

Granted, when the one true maniac is there, it's $20 - $25.

it sounds fantastic but your bypassing the part about hand reading. if opening to 8bb makes villian flat his entire range and tighten it, then it goes from something like pairs, broadways, scs, Axs and some other weird hands like 74s, T7s etc. when he flats to only 22-QQ and all suited broadways. while we still hold our specific RFI range. Hes going to have a equity advantage as well as position in a bloated pot. That does not sound fantastic to me.

the part about winning everytime an ace or king flop vs QQ, yes we will make a few bbs but our range is comprised of mostly those cards so when it comes we will more than likely have it therefore allowing our villian to play perfectly vs us. again, not fantastic.

they dont have to 3b to exploit. just call tighter and let us whiff. or let us barrel into the effective nuts when they flat their QQ on a T52 board or w/e.

i see what your saying but going to the flop with a wider and weaker range than your opps who will CORRECTLY make the adjustment of just folding more and cold calling much tighter than they would vs a smaller size is not good.
Your also inflating the SPR postflop with that same weak range ( relative to their calling range).