WPN ''Steals'' more than 50k in rewards
Hello my name is Frederico Nizzato da Silva, I have played poker professionally since 2018. Playing cash games since 202
Bring any pokerstars rep, any GGPoker rep, any rep from any poker site, and let them tell us here that this is not against any terms, and we can all do just that and move on with our lives. I will be very disappointed if this is allowed, but I promise I will shut the **** up.So yeah, can anyone bring a GGPoker or a Pokerstars representative to this thread for them to tell us i
It think it's very clear in the ToS of the major sites.
7. Data Mining
7.1. Data Mining is defined as any act that results in accumulation of hand histories other than one’s own hand histories.
7.2. The sole permitted use for importing hand histories is to track one’s own gameplay and results. User is strictly prohibited from using any 3rd party tools to import and/or convert hand histories from the poker tables or PokerCraft.
7.3. User is strictly prohibited from granting direct or indirect access to one’s own PokerCraft data, including one’s tournament results, or sharing one’s own hand histories to another party.
7.4. Potential actions for breaches: REMOVAL OF ACCESS TO POKERCRAFT, GAME REMOVAL, PERMANENT BAN, CONFISCATION OF FUNDS.
19. Mass Data Analysis (MDA)
19.1. Mass Data Analysis (MDA) refers to the accumulation of data on particular player pools and building exploitable heuristics based on its analysis.
19.2. Users are strictly prohibited from using any means to systematically collect and harvest data from any games or player activities.
19.3. Users must not share, sell, or distribute any analysis, insights, or data derived from MDA with other users or entities.
19.4. Potential actions for breaches: WARNING, SUSPENSION, PERMANENT BAN, CONFISCATION OF FUNDS.
There are people building databases with profiles of many players online, and they are sharing access to these databases. A player with access to such a database can call up detailed information about their opponents without ever playing against those opponents themselves. We believe this gives that player an unfair advantage against others at their table.
Tools and Services Prohibited at All Times:
* The practice of datamining hands or private results (observing games without playing in order to build up a database of hand histories for future reference); the use of hands or private results acquired through datamining; the mass sharing of hands, private results or playing statistics for the purpose of analysis of opponents.
The MDA allowed / not allowed is such a ancient debate. I don't mind sharing my view which I also consider the somehow obvious consensus.
1) MDA / Datamining is not allowed on any site.
2) High profile video coaches have been banned for years (not permanent) in the past when found guilty of using it in videos/photos. I know this for a fact since they have spoken openly about it.
3) Since datamining sites is only against ToS it become way less of a issue when you datamine sites you don't actually play at. I.E Detox mined hands from global pool which I don't think is really a issue. It isn't ideal and you can question the ethics but you are not really breaking rules here.
Given all above there becomes a question whenever punishment is justified.
Situation 1:
Student taking part of MDA classes or consuming educational videos/courses on it doesnt seem wrong at all to me and every single player (even fish a lot of times) have consumed it to some extent. Does not deserve punishment (biluzin and the guys can't possibly be punished for this)
Situations 2:
When coaches openly talk about them creating MDA / Selling it they are litterally admitting to breaking the rules. You could argue Nick Howard / Detox execs should have been banned ages ago from ignition. But it's not too easy to report someone since you don't know their screen name.
Situation 3:
Same as two but you also know their nicknames. Example SaoloCosta and freenachos. Their nicknames is widely known and they sell products promoted under their name. That pokerstars/ggpoker allows this is incredibly weird to me and it seems like a super obvious case where they should be banned/punished. I asked myself many times how they got away / keep getting away with it. What I find is how runitonce happily promoted/included their name in the freenachos course. I assume either 1) sites are too incompetent or 2) just too bothered with other / bigger issues or 3) people are not petty to report them?
Im not necessarily calling out the guys above to be worse than anyone else. There is a lot of this going on and esp in HU poker, but most people only admit it to close friends. But considering it really is only enforceable in the two/three cases above its def something to look into or discuss. But think people like their students should be left alone.
I want to apologize with this community in general and with the metagame guys, as I absolutely crossed the line with my last two posts (that I self reported). Regardless of what I think, and my opinion hasn't changed, respect is important when dealing with things especially in a public forum, and there are no excuses for behaving rudely and threatening. Having strong opinions on a subject is no justification for any of that. My apologies to everyone, and I am out of this thread for good.
Cheers!
Bump - congrats Biluzin on winning the Cash Game World Championship. In light of that it would make sense if your case could be reviewed again, clearly you are one of the most talented players in the world. Perhaps the site made a simple mistake back in 2024 when this happened (all sites do, we are not immune to that either).
We have reposted the tweet that @zinhaooo made about this and tagged ACR + WPN, hope it helps!
