NL100 TPTK in 4bet pot with double flush draw on board
Hey all, been getting back into cash games and ran into this scenario. I got confused and jammed...how bad is it?
PartyGaming - $1 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4: http://www.pokertracker.com
MP: 133.63 BB
CO: 101.5 BB
BTN: 157.61 BB
SB: 344.66 BB
Hero (BB): 150.83 BB
UTG: 142.96 BB
SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Ad Kc
fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to 2.5 BB, Hero raises to 7.5 BB, SB raises to 22.5 BB, Hero calls 15 BB
Flop : (45 BB, 2 players) 8s As Jd
SB bets 12.82 BB, Hero raises to 28 BB, SB calls 15.18 BB
Turn : (101 BB, 2 players) 6d
SB checks, Hero bets 100.33 BB, SB calls 100.33 BB
River : (301.66 BB, 2 players) 3c
SB shows Js Jh (Three of a Kind, Jacks)
(Pre 57%, Flop 97%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows Ad Kc (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 43%, Flop 3%, Turn 0%)
SB wins 298.66 BB
What would have been the optimal play here? I don't think I am every getting away from going broke here, but how could I have gone about going broke more efficiently?
My thinking in jamming was that I am likely to have the best hand here and could get a call from AQ or some other AXs hand. It also looks somewhat bluffy so could get called by KK. On top of that there are a lot of flush and combo draws that might get sticky: AXs, KQs, KJs, maybe even K10s and QJs. I reasoned that there were more worse hands that could call me here than there were hands that beat me...which I basically had limited to JJ.
Is my reasoning solid here?
13 Replies
I would first like to hear your thoughts on that flop click back - what did you try to achieve here? What was your plan for the hand? Any info on the Villain? Did you plan to go with your TPTK till the end for 150 bb?
I would first like to hear your thoughts on that flop click back - what did you try to achieve here? What was your plan for the hand? Any info on the Villain? Did you plan to go with your TPTK till the end for 150 bb?
I wouldn’t say I was planning to go for it all from the start.
The flop raise was to build pot and because of the draws…
Can you describe what is your 3b/call range in this spot? Are you doing the same with the draws, weak Ax, 2nd pairs as well? I would like to know your range and strategy for it.
Then, as played - what do you think Villain has, after he 4b pre, b/c the flop ?
Can you describe what is your 3b/call range in this spot? Are you doing the same with the draws, weak Ax, 2nd pairs as well? I would like to know your range and strategy for it.
Then, as played - what do you think Villain has, after he 4b pre, b/c the flop ?
In position my 3b range is going to be quite wide, and in position vs a SB open it would be wider. Been a while since IÂ’ve thought too closely about it but something like..
For value:
AA-99
Aks-A10s
AKo-AJo
KQs-KJs
KQo
As bluffs or semi bluffs:
Lower part of above range +
AXs
KXs
QJs/o, J10s/o
And a bunch of suited connectors and some suited gappers.
As for villain, I had his range as QQ-JJ, AXs, some KXs
In position my 3b range is going to be quite wide, and in position vs a SB open it would be wider. Been a while since IÂ’ve thought too closely about it but something like..
For value:
AA-99
Aks-A10s
AKo-AJo
KQs-KJs
KQo
As bluffs or semi bluffs:
Lower part of above range +
AXs
KXs
QJs/o, J10s/o
And a bunch of suited connectors and some suited gappers.
Not bad, though you want to mix in some of the lower suited broadways / mid pairs / Kxs as partial 3b or a call. Remember that you need some of them to call and defend too, if you 3b too much value, then your calling range is now severely impacted.
So you think he is doing that with QQ, but not with KK? Your are missing AA. Axs and Kxs are more likely to call 3b, rather than 4bet, maybe AQs could be such a hand.
If that's his range, then you are certainly ahead. I don't see a reason to raise, you are 150 bb, IP and have a good hand that can certainly withstand 2 hefty bets, but needs to be cautious if facing a 3rd one.
Equity Win Tie
MP2 70.38% 64.64% 5.74% AdKc
MP3 29.62% 23.89% 5.74% TT+, AQs+, AJo+, KJo+, AhTd, AsTd, AcTd
Then OTT, he will give up some of his bluff and might continue with FDs. Not sure if this will be his entire betting range or part of it will x/c, but you are almost even (I assumed ATo will x/c and underpair should also go to checking range).
Equity Win Tie
MP2 48.76% 35.12% 13.64% AdKc
MP3 51.24% 37.60% 13.64% AA, JJ, AQs+, AJo+
Here you can probably check back and revaluate on the river. On this river, if he bets with that exact range:
Equity Win Tie
MP2 50.00% 36.36% 13.64% AdKc
MP3 50.00% 36.36% 13.64% AA, JJ, AQs+, AJo+
But if he won't bet AQ, then it looks way worse
Equity Win Tie
MP2 21.43% 0.00% 21.43% AdKc
MP3 78.57% 57.14% 21.43% AA, JJ, AKs, AKo, AJo
It's 14 combos, some of which you split against. If you can find like two worse combos, maybe some lower pairs turned into a bluff = you will have 31.2%, which should be enough for a 3/4 bet.
Not bad, though you want to mix in some of the lower suited broadways / mid pairs / Kxs as partial 3b or a call. Remember that you need some of them to call and defend too, if you 3b too much value, then your calling range is now severely impacted.So you think he is doing that with QQ, but not with KK? Your are missing AA. Axs and Kxs are more likely to call 3b, rather than 4be
It is not that he can’t have AA or KK just that I have blockers to those. Lots to think about, thanks.
Excluding results, is my best play on flop/river to just call down and evaluate river?
3bet size is far too small, especially that deep
Just shove over their 4bet
It is not that he can’t have AA or KK just that I have blockers to those. Lots to think about, thanks.
Excluding results, is my best play on flop/river to just call down and evaluate river?
You have blockers, but that doesn't change the fact that 1 combo of AA is still possible.
I would say yes, definitely call down and evaluate. With 100 bb stacks you have more wiggle room, but 150 bb deep you need to be more careful.
Same as above, 150 bb it's not trivial, you would need a lot of fold equity, cause if you get called, you have have maybe 38-39% against calling range.
At this stack depth, you need 60% fold equity to be break even, cause if you get called, you have only 38.82%. Ask yourself whether you can find that much of fold equity.
At 100 bb stacks, you need 52.3% fold equity in the same scenario if his stackoff range is AK/QQ+, but at this depth, I think it's gonna be easily JJ+ (sometimes even TT+ and AQs), so then your equity goes up to 39.72% and required fold equity goes down to 50.8%.
In case you're wondering why fold equity requirements are that high - I do take rake into consideration (including preflop rake, for GG). So as you can see, both rake and stack depth make a huge difference.
Kinda hard to answer without this info. Hand could've been played totally fine or absolutely awful. If it's vs the average GG reg this is almost certainly terrible.
Hard for villain to call with worse Axs when our hand and the board blocks 2 flush draws. QQ is folding. JJ has you beat and how much Kxs is he actually 4betting this deep?
At this stack depth, you need 60% fold equity to be break even, cause if you get called, you have only 38.82%. Ask yourself whether you can find that much of fold equity.At 100 bb stacks, you need 52.3% fold equity in the same scenario if his stackoff range is AK/QQ+, but at this depth, I think it's gonna be easily JJ+ (sometimes even TT+ and AQs), so then your equity goes up t
AKo is a standard shove facing a 4bet BB vs SB even 150bb deep, but I agree in this case there is a difference with "theory": the 3bet is pretty small and as a consequence the 4bet is also pretty small. There is not that much dead money in the pot, which as you indicate drives up our required fold equity.
