Do small raises at limpers get 3! a lot
I notice here and in videos, they say small raises at limpers are usually weak and should be 3! light.
A couple of times at 1/3, I raised small at limpers with 77 or 88, as I wanted to build the pot but not knock many players out. Then I got 3! by a LAG or pro, which was sort of a disaster. In retrospect, I probably should have 4! even though 3!s at low stakes are usually strong and these pps have poor playability. I also stopped making that play, and usually limp behind or raise normally.
Would it induce to raise small at limpers with QQ+? How often do these small raises get 3!?
11 Replies
While there are some players in my 1/3 NL pool that will open smallish with their whole range, most players are fairly face up with their preflop raise sizing. So when an ABC makes it a small weak juicing $10 and gets the obvious multiple callers, I know I'm looking to 3bet wider than usual (although I do have to be careful not to run into a nitty/tricky flatter with AK/QQ/etc.). The typical ABC opponent probably isn't pouncing enough here when they should, but anyone half laggy / capable often will.
In general, I think it is fairly obvious that a $6 minraise is simply going to induce more 3bets than a normal 5x open and way more than a large 8x $25 open (just think of how you yourself react to these different open/overcall sizes with various parts of your range).
ETA: So back to the original question, you'll definitely get 3bet more by raising QQ to a small 3x than you will to a big 8x. Although I have no idea how much more. And then you also have to factor in the times you raise to 3x and go the expected 7ways to a very small SPR (in a typical small stacked game) and how awesome you feel about that result (and whether getting yourself in that situation a lot more will make up for the times you get in a 4bet).
ETA#2: In many ways, my 0% raising range in the ~HJ- strategy is akin to this, in that I "raise" my hands in these spots very small, to 1x, which undoubtedly induces more "reraise" action than any other size. Meanwhile, the times it fails in getting the "reraise" and goes 7ways, at least I've produced an SPR that I'm comfortable playing at sitting a typical LLSNL stack size (one that a 3x raise does not).
GcluelessNLnoobG
I think small raises over limps are curious, and semi-polar. I tend to wonder if the raiser is weak, or hoping to induce a light 3B. What I usually find is that the small open over limps is weak more often than an attempt to induce. So, yes, I'll 3B those small opens light.
The challenge with raising small to induce while holding a premium hand in low stakes games is that the player pool doesn't 3B light often enough to make up for the value we lose when we raise small and get flat called, or times when we go multi-way and have to fold post. We also set up an easy 3B-fold for those who do 3B light.
That small raise over limps just seems to backfire more often than not.
I pounce when a player uses multiple sizings and decides to go small. The easy fix is to 4x over limpers with aces and announce “pot sweetener” or “juicer”.
Most players never adjust.
Only some will adjust and 3bet light based on their reads of your sizing tells.
I would recommend just using the same sizing with your whole range. Even live low limit players will figure out if different raise sizes mean different things. It's just too obvious.
Personally I limp behind to set mine with hands like 77 or raise bigger if I think I can isolate a limper heads up with a weak range.
If there are a lot of 3-bets at your table you can also mix in some flats with strong hands, then back raise over the 3-bet. That has pretty much the same effect as what you are suggesting without the danger of giving away too much information by using different raise sizes.
At the typical low stakes table it's just higher EV to 3-bet yourself though when you have a strong hand because people don't 3-bet enough to make trapping worth it.
I definitely wouldn't reraise (5-bet) with 77 if an opponent 4-bets your small 3-bet at a typical LSNL game. Their range is typically going to be far too strong and your hand will not perform well.
Really in a live 1/3 game you should be using different sizings given most of your player pool are droolers - if better players pick up on what they think is a sizing tell from you just adjust and 4b them or however you want to attack. If you can 6x every open and everyone calls their same range that's obviously better than 3xing with the same result. If you're isoing and you start getting 3b a lot you can either raise tighter, 4b, call the 3b wider. Keep in mind if you start battling back against the better players they will probably slow down against you so better to battle them then tighten up and lose on profitable isos.
Looking at it the other way around, if you make a healthy raise over limpers, it is rare to get 3bet by a hand other than QQ+. Seriously, I've seen so many times where they cold call up to JJ (and even QQ), AK, AQ, AJs, etc. whereas when you raise small, some of the players will 3b 99, AQ, etc
And it's not uncommon that someone at a 9-handed table will have a top-10 or top-20 hand they feel comfortable 3betting over a small raise.
It just depends on the individuals at your table. IF several of them are the typea to be observant about sizings patterns AND are willing to pull the trigger on making moves against "capped ranges, " then it could be a nice exploit to raise weak-looking sizes with premiums to induce light 3bets and especially squeezes.
That's a very big IF though.
It's up to you to figure out your player pool's tendencies, and these guys in 2plus2 can't help you out with that hard work.
Obviously, if players at your table are droolers who are super NOT observant and/or are very scared to make moves against "capped" ranges, then you can just go bigger with your stronger hands.
IMHO, that's showing the table a lot of disrespect, but some tables deserve to be disrespected.
If I'm IP with anything playable, I'm 3!ing the little raise big. The reason being is that a small raise invites everyone to call and you have a super-multiway bloated pot playing bingo. So I either fold or 3!.
I don't understand why you want to juice up when you know you're getting called 4+ ways. Even when you hit your set, you're just begging to get coolered going up against what is often multiple draws, when you easily could have raised and played a similar sized pot against hands that will more frequently be top pair and stack off with much less equity, and opportunities to win the hand when you miss your set. A $60 pot 5 ways is a miserable spot for a weak pair. A $60 pot heads up, playable and if you pick up 3-4 bbs without seeing a flop at all, that's a win for 88.
There's probably a way to mathematically prove that the small raise over limps is -EV in low stakes.
