H overlimps AA and then gets a chance to re-raise preflop...
8 handed. $2 B/$3 SB/$5 BB/$10 mandatory UTG straddle
V1 SB Loose fish, on his 4th short buy-in, stack $135
V2 UTG+1 Loose fish, calling and raising preflop a lot, wants action, stack $550
H HJ, tightest player at the table, stack $1850
V3 CO, playing few hands, but has overshoved preflop a few times, and seems to be growing frustrated now on his 2nd buy-in
V4 B, LAG regular, is a good player, and has been on a heater and has loosened up and gotten even more aggressive, stack $2700
==
V2 posts dead $20 utg+1
LJ limps
H HJ limps AA (expecting a raise from V4 or V1)
V3 CO calls
V4 B $150
V1 SB calls all-in $135
V2 all-in $550
LJ fold.
H???
20 Replies
Actually lol'd. Needed that, this morning.
Is V3 frustrated enough to re-shove if you just call here? Then do that. You're a nit. (To them.) A nit shove crushes them, so they won't call you.
Aside, open for 70 instead of limping along. Wouldn't matter here, with BU betting bigger, but SB's inevitable shove would reopen the action for you. And just opening disguises your hand much better than a l/rr. Unless you're also doing it with like A4s.
My first thought was how deep is V3... but the sizes are so big I'm not sure anything really matters. Just bet post and don't fold ever, and you can probably do a lot of different things.
Also clicking it back to 950 looks stronger than any other option, although maybe a small chance someone's brain melts when you do that.
Unless V4 is much worse than you said, or on massive winners tilt, I don't see how he decides he has any fold equity if you "only" call 30% of your stack.
On the other side he can't overcall correctly, even if he knows you have QQ+.
Rough math if V4 plays close to correct on the flop:
You'll have ~1 SPR on the flop, if you call and V4 calls.
If V4 has JTs-76s then V flops 35%+ equity on the flop 15%-18% of the time, and all PP ~13% of the time.
So call, and shove all flops if V4 calls might be better? Or even bet small pot on the flop, for the extra lolz?
Would almost certainly "think a bit" and shove though, will never take mental damage about FPS and sometimes V4 actually has something and talks himself into calling vs. your isolation raise. Also slight chance he has like JTs/whatever which happens to be his "favourite hand", and calls it off anyway on winners tilt or just to gamble.
To me this is a clear jam because anything you do is going to look super strong. So may as well get the money in now. Maybe he has AK or QQ and doesn’t want to fold because he thinks you’re just isolating the all-ins with a slightly weaker hand.
Grunch:
This game sounds amazing. Guess my invite got lost in the mail, OG?
As for what to do, just eyeballing it, there's like $900 in the pot when it gets back to you? Bro, you can't just flat the $550, give V4 a good price to get in there, and go to the flop with less than 1 SPR. I think you have to re-jam.
But...I think I see where this is going. If we flat, does V4 ever do the re-jamming for us, versus just folding when we back-re-jam for $1850?
Is there a world where you call, he calls, and then you auto-jam flop, and just auto-print an extra $550 when he folds, or maybe get a $1300 bonus if he calls with TPTK or something you cooler the f**k out of?
I dunno man. If we flat and he comes along, the pot will be around $1800 going to the flop, and we'll have $1300 left behind. If we just stick the rest in, he'll be getting around 2.4 to 1 to call. Seems like he'd have to call with TP and any 8+ out draws.
Even though our equity in the main pot goes down a little if he gets in there, the side pot will be bigger than the main, and we'll have him crushed if he doesn't flop 2P, a set, or some sort of insane combo draw.
I think I changed my mind, and now I want to just flat call.
Just shove yourself. It looks like you want to box out V4 and face off against the fish. He's probably calling your shove with most hands that call $550, and he's probably folding quite a bit either way. He's described a decent LAG who was limped to on the button so he's super wide.
Just shove yourself. It looks like you want to box out V4 and face off against the fish. He's probably calling your shove with most hands that call $550, and he's probably folding quite a bit either way. He's described a decent LAG who was limped to on the button so he's super wide.
And the only hands that want to iso a fish are vulnerable high pairs. Thing is we need V to have those vulnerable high pairs, so let HIM try to box US out with QQ+. Trivial call, last thing we need is V folding KK to a 5bet or wherever we're at in this spot. Hope flop is low and he just jams with whatever.
Your hand’s face up, so…
Results:
==
V2 posts dead $20 utg+1
LJ limps
H HJ limps AA (expecting a raise from V4 or V1)
V3 CO calls (starting stack was $550)
V4 B $150
V1 SB calls all-in $135
V2 all-in $550
LJ fold.
H???
==
Spoiler
H goes all-in for $1850 total.
V3 in CO calls all-in $550.
V4 on B tanks and agonizes. After 2 minutes, he folds KK face up.
4-ways all-in to the flop.
V4 celebrates his fold as H shows AA, but his celebration is short lived as the board goes:
K 4 3 4 8.
V2 has AK
SB has 78s
H takes the pot.
When H's shove gets the big stack to fold KK, it's a disaster. Would flatting have been a better play? But it worked out much better for H this way.
Results:
Spoiler
It's hard to guess that villain will fold KK 185bb effective preflop, although obv. you're going to take a mental note. Makes me wonder what he calls with if you flat, if anything. Anyway glad the poker gods decided not to fart on our cornflakes this time around.
Shoving was the right play. Flatting lets him come in w/ any hand, and then he can play perfectly on the flop.
Wow. I thought if he put you on QQ+, he could never fold. I guess with that amount of $ at stake and this action, you might not even have QQ or AKs.
I wouldn't sweat about the fold too much as that's obviously a 100:1 situation, but I might find another table if the fishes don't reload.
I think the chance we get outdrawn via a set mine negates anything we get from FPS. I don't really care that much either, I'd rather reach for the low hanging fruit.
Hm...whats our shoving range?
We don't have a coldcall range right?
Not too sure about villains fold. I guess our image is too nitty to not have ak/qq+ here.
Not too sure about villains fold. I guess our image is too nitty to not have ak/qq+ here.
I mean V should call if we have only QQ+ ... given the extra ~800.
If we have only AKs/QQ+, it becomes much better for him.
Every hand is basically too good to just call with, or too bad.
V3 and V4 are likely to call regardless based on pot size and tendencies so just shove. Worst case you get hands that could beat you to fold and there's a lot already in the pot. Best case, they call and you have the best hand pre-flop.
By the way, why not find a better game? It's essentially a 10/10 game with people buying in for $150. Not good for a skilled player.
This is costing you a ton of theoretical EV. Calling - and trapping is a far better outcome - you aren't very deep, and you want the action badly. We want V4 to call - or better yet, jam over us with a hand like TT+
If you jam now, you let him off the hook.
Edit - I just looked at the results - so exactly - the jam cost us about 2k in theoretical EV but we would of lost, so heaters are real.
If you want to guarantee the fold from KK, make sure to say "time for me to go home" before shoving.
^ Dont forget to put on your beige windbreaker jacket as you stand up
