The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition
Bad beats are part of the game. I understand that. But after absorbing more than my fair share on Poker Stars I switched
Do you understand how RNGs work? The RNG doesn't know how to play poker. It doesn't know that the numbers it's generating correspond to certain cards. It just spits out numbers. It has no idea that it's completing a flush or pairing the board or whatever. It's certainly possible for an RNG to be less than truly random, but there's absolutely no way that would correspond to acti
The real joke is the fact that rigturds like Jungnit believe that a poker site buys a hardware rng and then they tamper with the machine to make it spit out the numbers they desire (instead of simply telling the software guys of the site that they own:'Make more action flops, Barry. Daddy needs a new car!') Yeah, I am of course aware that action flops don't make a site more money.
If you dont trust Galfond because he owns a training site why did you first say this:
Yes if you got him off the record. In other words in real life with no camera in front of him he might have a different response to that question. Obviously like I said he owns a training site he's never going to tell you anything different in public because he doesn't want people to flee the game. I don't know how he feels in real life and once again I'm not saying it's rigged. I'm saying it's possible that some sites just don't have good software
I'm saying it's possible that some people just don't have good brains
Yes if you got him off the record. In other words in real life with no camera in front of him he might have a different response to that question. Obviously like I said he owns a training site he's never going to tell you anything different in public because he doesn't want people to flee the game. I don't know how he feels in real life and once again I'm not saying it's rigged
if he knew the rig his training site could train how to combat it and clients would be rushing in, since it would be an absolute first
although we had one guy here who absolutely knew how the deck wasnt random, yet he managed a whopping -20bb/100 lossrate at 10nl 😃
[QUOTE=BobTheSlob;59142235]When rigturds try to understand basic poker math and fail horribly...
Standard ad hominem to deflect from the fact my points are accurate. Pathetic. Let's do an experiment. We play FTF with me having the right anytime I wish to declare the hand "rigged" and I at the end of the hand have the right to pick any two cards not on the board or someone's hand(ie revealed) as my hole cards. I can only do this 10% of the time. Think I won't win?
Standard ad hominem to deflect from the fact my points are accurate. Pathetic. Let's do an experiment. We play FTF with me having the right anytime I wish to declare the hand "rigged" and I at the end of the hand have the right to pick any two cards not on the board or someone's hand(ie revealed) as my hole cards. I can only do this 10% of the time. Think I won't win?
What's worse than a rigturd that does not understand basic maths?
A rigturd that does not understand basic maths but is totally convinced that he does...
Standard ad hominem to deflect from the fact my points are accurate. Pathetic. Let's do an experiment. We play FTF with me having the right anytime I wish to declare the hand "rigged" and I at the end of the hand have the right to pick any two cards not on the board or someone's hand(ie revealed) as my hole cards. I can only do this 10% of the time. Think I won't win?
What will this prove in your opinion? That you can win when you have a ridiculous big advantage?? Thats quite the shocker :p
And what the connection with online poker? Have you ever seen someone being able to pick two cards out of the remainin deck? If so, please share this groundbreaking information.
I mean this is all I'm saying. I go play live poker and pretty much every hand four or five people see the flop and you can play many sessions and not take a bad beat. Sure you might lose to a hand or something like that but truly when you play live poker how many bad beats do you actually get? It's very rare. I'm not saying you can't see a hand like 97 beat pocket jacks or something. But I'm saying truly how often do you see a bad beat when you play live poker. I mean count all the sessions and go over many many sessions. I mean I probably played this year 50 sessions of live poker and I could probably count two hands that I would call bad beats. One I had pocket aces the flop came down Queen 64 and somehow I lost the 9 10. The player called and the board ran out 7 8. Why this person even called on the flop I have no idea but I would call that a bad beat. Off the top of my head I can't think of any others that I would really say were terrible. So 50 sessions of live poker say on average my average session was 4 hours so 200 hours of live poker at 30 per hour so about 6,000 hands and I can only recall off the top of my head one bad beat playing live if I played 6,000 hands of poker online in the next say three to four days I would have a list of bad beats with only one guy maybe two guys seeing the flop. Live for five people see every flop and I can only recall one bad beat in 6,000 hands. This is why people think online poker is rigged
"people" dont think that. Unsuccessful poker players with no self reflection do.
And yet you still dont understand why live winrates are higher than online lolol
"people" dont think that. Unsuccessful poker players with no self reflection do.
And yet you still dont understand why live winrates are higher than online lolol
But I get why win rates are higher live. But it's all relative. Live you will win a much smaller percentage of your hands. Online you will play more hands and you will be heads up or three-handed most of the time so you will win a higher percentage of your hands so in the long run it should equal out. Live you might be playing 20% of your hands maybe only when 30 or 40% of those that you're in. So it's all relative online playing maybe 30 or 35% of your hands and you're probably going to win 60% of those hands. So it makes no sense. Plus you're going to see way more hands per hour so the reality behind it all is you'll make less money per hand online but you'll see more hands which will make up the difference of the live game.
Ask anybody who owns a poker training site if poker is dead. What is their response going to be? Ask any pharmaceutical company if medications are good for you. What is their response going to be? Ask any politician if you should donate to their campaign. What is their answer going to be? I like Phil but I'm saying he also has a vested interest in making sure more and more peop
Jungmit, can you please answer my question?
Hi Johnmir
Looking at your hand nos 73, 85, 92, 96, 99,
being AJ, K6, J6, Q2, 92s,
all being designated as top pair on the flop,
please explain how you arrived at the "Chances for the compination [sic]" percentages being
27.5%, 17.2%, 12.8%, 13.2%, 7.6%
Thanks.
I'm trying to find a website that is open-source and transparent one that proves there’s no manipulation behind the scenes.
Technology is advancing so fast, and I believe there will be a platform that can truly achieve that.
Even if so, how will you 100% know your opponents are playing fair?
And what about black swans? Black Friday was a black swan. There may be more in the future.
I ’ve played on several online poker sites in Web2 and honestly, I never won much.
Maybe I wasn’t good enough, but that experience made me curious.
I started digging into how these platforms actually work, trying to understand what happens behind the scenes when the dealer shuffles and deals the cards.
Since you are talking about online poker I assume that with "dealer" you mean the RNG. Because thats what generates/deals the cards
And every major site and even most of the little ones do have an RNG license from a third-party that proves the RNG is generating and dealing cards fair and random.
Thats about close as you get to 100% certainty when addressing that part of online poker.
But 100% certainty that you are playing in a completely fair game (no bots, colliders, rta'ers etc) is never to be had... unfortunately
How can we be sure there’s no manipulation in the shuffle, or hidden logic that favors someone behind the curtain?
Again, absolute 100% cannot be guaranteed but when on playing sites with a RNG license its about 99.999999%
Never ever in the history of online poker has there been a manipulated shuffle/deal found, even though many people want to try to find a rigged RNG, its never been done.
Realistically players should be way more worried about numerous other fears in online poker like botting, colliding, rta-ing.
Superusing has been extremely rare in poker, but that were cases and they were proven. So even that is more likely than an RNG who benefits others behind the curtain 😉
Yes and they are called winners 🙂
And btw, yo dou realize pablito was being ironic towards jungmit to get him silent
Why do all losing riggies dont get irony??
And all analyses have also shown that the RNG is 100% random. Nobody ever found evidence of a non-random RNG. Yet some losing players keep on claiming they are rigged, sound stupid?? yes they are 😃
Imagine someone wants to play online poker but lacks the understanding of basic logic like "proving a negative".
No one forces you to play, dude. Just look for entertainment that matches your intellect. My suggestion: sportsball and beer.
I tried to play again.... built up a 200 dollar deposit to 2500 in 3 days...... then next 3 days i lose in every rigged way possible... 90% favorite lose like 19/20 times...aces and kings lose every all in to underpair about 15 times in a row.... back down to 300 dollars.
GG is a scam... it happens every single time... i have normal run for a while and crush and play great and then the insane doomswitch happens and no matter even if i play perfectly, the most optimal poker possible. i will somehow get rigged 100 tournaments in a row.
I lost my last 18 times with ace or kings.... half of them to underpair all ins other half people hitting random 2 pairs on turn or river and i lose pot or half to fold.
This site is a scam... i need somebody to check my lifelong stats im pretty sure its proof of online poker being a scam
Yawn, really low effort.
The fish get helped? Why did you lose then? Also: Easy solution, just play like a fish and they will help you.
Honestly.
For the love of god and everyone around you. Dont ever try again. You are not suited. No pun intended.
Honestly.
For the love of god and everyone around you. Dont ever try again. You are not suited. No pun intended.
Well, he ran "normal" for some days. Going from 200 to over 2k. Imagine the guy would run normal all the time. Would be yet another Millionaire!
Just thought id look after monthssssss away..... ahhh yes the same defenders who rep the sites still running it..... putting down those who choose to talk about their mathematically bizarre totally impossible results, in an attempt to contain the overwhelming belief that sites run decks in a manner which profits the sites most.
Who would have ever thought that massive names in the gaming industry would just develop a true RNG and just let it run.... and whatever they made, they made and would ignore temptation to maximise profit x10 by giving their deck a little 'tweak' here and there?
Isnt it great that some people actually believe that an industry that is constantly fined millions for unethical practices, every month, one that is renowned for greed and its disregard for the customer... is running its decks 'for the people' and not to line their own pockets.
That is naivity at its very highest peak
Site reps feel free to be aggresive in your defence! Your sites are pretty much done now anyway......
This is the third time you've broken your own agreement 😉
putting down those who choose to talk about their mathematically bizarre totally impossible results
But you've hit the nail on the head here
I do "put down" those who TALK about their "mathematically bizarre totally impossible results" when they could also SHOW it so we finally have some evidence. Mathematically impossible results are some hard evidence.. but not when its only in words.
Why are you talkers always hiding evidence huh??? must be site reps 🙂
I just had to check back to confirm you would be still in the same spiral of repeating yourself. You must be close to insanity.
Even the most prominent pro's say to rig online poker is possible but say they would be surprised if they were doing it.
Of course, having an opinion that all is well within online poker decks is fine, as long as you are intelligent enough to know that these sites operate in a manner that demonstrate they dont give a damn about the player and only profit, so its always a distinct possibility. This would be the correct way to back online poker.
To call players 'dumb' etc, would only come from a place of someone feeling threatened by those talking about their negative long term experiences. Why else would they back these sites with such intensity? I cant think of a single reason, other than they have a vested interest. Not one.
And todays fine is £2M for Betfair/Paddy Power for letting down their players... a recurring theme that you previously dismissed as nothing to do with poker.... errr i think it demonstrates once again what these major sites think about players compared to the making money.... a very important factor in believing if decks are behaving within normal odds.
Of course nobody...... would spend months and months backing these sites on a forum, knowing that ultimately they dont give damn about them and would gladly take everything you owned if they could get past regulation.
Unless they had a vested interest, or were insane.
