QTs UTG 6-ways, good flop and turn
1/2 NL. I have about 310, main villain covers. Main villain is young and new to table.
I raise to 10 UTG with QhTh (could fold, raise larger, or maybe limp), 6-ways to the flop (6-way raised pots were unusual). Flop (53) JhTs6h. Blinds both check, I bet 30 (could check and maybe check/raise, maybe check/shove), 3rd position calls, others fold.
Turn (112) 3h for JhTs6h3h. I bet 40 (too small? was trying to make it unclear that I had a flush. Maybe should go bigger to set up a river shove). Villain raises to 145. Should I fold the 3rd nut flush?
Maybe you should, but I couldn’t do it, I’m shoving turn over the top of villain.
Honestly, I’m folding this hand pre-flop from early position. I know you want to play, and you don’t want to limp, so you raise $10 and end up with a crowd you did not anticipate.
If you raise $25 to thin the crowd, mostly better hands call, so it’s just not a great hand to play OOP, though it looks pretty. However, you played a speculative hand and it hit, so get the money in.
I actually think you’re ahead most of the time. Yes, a lot of people saw a flop and someone connected, but I think it’s far more likely villain hit a smaller flush and thinks it’s good.
If I lose this hand, I’ll be really pissed at myself for getting out of line with a hand I should’ve let go.
I am just not folding the turn and probably not folding any rivers either since we are basically hoping villain is bluffing already. So yah call call is my plan after the turn raise. It just seems like from an overall gameplan perspective if we are beat when we have this hand in this situation we have to get stacked.
Preflop and flop I think are definitely interesting questions. Actually, scratch that, the flop is an interesting question. Pre is clearly borderline and so I don't think it matters if we open or fold.
Yeah, raise more pre, even to 15, you have many calling stations, raising to 10 is where the hand went awry. QTs is the bottom of the UTG opening range. It’s barely ev. You play it as a bluff to get calls when you have premiums. The best result with QTs UTG is everyone folds. The next best result is heads up. Six way is a bad result. QTs has terrible roi six way because you lose your stack to the nut and second nut flush and straight. Your two pair gets counterfeited.
Fww I fold QTs UTG but like hero always open to 10.
I would bet smaller on the turn to 25. You flopped a lot of equity. It looks pretty but there are three yet to act, and the blinds can also check raise. You’re betting here to feel out where you stand.
Turn is pretty gross. A read would help here a lot. You can definitely fold the third nuts if you have a read. Against an unknown in my cardroom I call and hate it.
I actually shoved. If I called, there would be about 1/3 pot left. He could be bluffing and fold to the shove. However, if he had a lower flush or the nut flush draw / blocker, I wanted the money to go in. Will discuss what happened after that later.
Folding the turn here would be criminal IMO. You bet small, so Villain easily be raising worse for value and can be spazzing with something merge-y.
I think your turn sizing is OK. Would much prefer flop check with this hand (to decide between XC and XR) but the bet can’t be too bad.
Preflop raise is fine, though mixing in a limp UTG with QTs at 1/2 isn’t bad either.
Grunch:
This would be easier to analyze if you used typical seat positions rather than "3rd position". Helpful to know if he called pre and flop with others behind, and how many.
PRE - the RFI from UTG with QTs is w/e.
FLOP - with three players behind and a very wet and dynamic board, I'd just check to see what happens. Expecting someone to stab at this at a pretty high frequency.
If you're going to c-bet here, I'd go bigger,. like full pot, trying to play a two street game.
TURN - trying to range V, I'd think he'd 3B pre with AKs, and raise flop with 2P+. He might raise flop with some NFD's or combo draws.
If he's taking this line with a worse flush or a bluff, we don't want to stop him by jamming. If he's got better, he's just going to snap off a jam. I don't think I could fold the 3rd nuts, so I think we should just flat call, with a plan to call a jam on most rivers. Pray it isn't another heart.
I don't mind the raise pre, but I rarely do it. In my games, I can limp and call a small raise depending on who raises. Flop is good.
Any reads on this player? Any vibe? Depending on player type, it's call (to keep in two pair) or shove (to entice the naked Ah to call). There are a few players I'd fold to.
I limp pre since in my room pots are sometimes not raised, and I don't mind playing this hand for 1 BB.
Flop is fine. You don't really mind taking it down now, and can call a check raise or even put all the money in. I don't like checking and letting something dumb like a gutshot get there.
Turn I shove. I don't understand the advice to call. There are many rivers that could scare off a little flush, which presumably he has. He also could have a set. I don't really think this line is a bluff very often, especially at 1/2, so let's just put the money in before he gets cold feet.
Just my gut feeling, but if there's a chance he's bluffing or betting worse for value, I'd think we make more money flatting than we do jamming.
J63hTx, what smaller flushes does V realistically have, calling in the CO, 6-handed, with a UTG open with QThh and call? Versus a lot of Axdd. And Adxx tbf. As well as what Kxdd does V realistically have, given the call pre? K9dd? Maybe??
This is 6-handed, right? Though it's even worse FR in 3rd position, unless this was an extremely passive table.
I'm not folding because I'm a bit of a call monkey, and would be happier calling a shove than what looks like a really valuey raise. Isn't the rest of the money going in on the river if H calls now? So why not stick it in now, if H really thinks they're ahead?
What other hands would you open-limp? Are the games raked? Hero is UTG, not SB.
This was 8-handed, 6 players to the flop, which was unusual for raised pots.
You could limp Axs and small pps also. At a table where you might raise and get it 6 ways, it might be better to raise and build the pot with small pps.
Don't bet flop. I like turn sizing now jam. Lol at folding.
Turn bet’s good, maybe bump it to 60-70 next time to charge the single heart hands. Once he raises though, you’re too strong to fold n he can easily be overvaluing something like Kh9h or even sets.
I fold pre mainly because I don’t like playing oop without good ammo and I’m not sure how well we do getting value oop with weak top or middle pair.
As played flop bet is ok, could go either way. Turn we should always bet with flushes unless we’re exploiting an aggro, and I think we should jam over his raise. Sometimes we get stacked, it happens.
This was 8-handed, 6 players to the flop, which was unusual for raised pots.
You could limp Axs and small pps also. At a table where you might raise and get it 6 ways, it might be better to raise and build the pot with small pps.
Thanks. Just got unlucky with the crowd showing up, I guess. I'd think a younger unknown, might raise instead of overcall a lot of suited aces, like A9+, A4-A5+, and a lot of AXo. If so, that obv would cut down the number of value combos H is concerned with.
I thought an argument for limping PPs/lower suited Aces was that we could still call a raise w/o losing the required IO needed to play those hands? Versus H raising, facing a 3!, and now having to fold.
I can open limp any hand I want to go multi-way for cheap. I have a very closed group, though. Very passive, little raising, over-value top pair, limp w/ AA, KK AK, etc., and will go to the mat with them almost not matter what the board looks like. QTs, SGs, A5s, 22, etc., can be very powerful if they hit.
Rake is 10% up to $5. Used to be a $1 drop for an hourly high hand, but we just started playing ROE (thank goodness), so no promo.
also folding pre is probably best UTG in a game with competent players (i.e not 1/2). at 1/2 a pf raise seems fine. you dont want to play a limped multiway pot.
I'd rather play a limped multi-way pot with this hand than a raised one, but if I raise to $10 UTG in my games, I will get six callers, easy.
I am not sure why I didn't check. I would usually x/r this, maybe x/shove. I think I may have picked up reads that no one was interested and I thought the bet might take it. It did get HU.
Result was I 3! shoved the turn and got stacked by Ah4h. Not sure if a low stakes player raising and the sizing meant strength and I could somehow fold. But think he could raise for protection with a lower flush or raise with the bare Ah.
I would have felt better if I had gii on the flop 62% to win with dead money.
Of course I didn't have to play this hand but thought it was profitable against loose/passive players. I also don't like it if people can put my ep raises on a tight range.
