[MICRO] NL10 AQs - call big 4b with a fish behind?
Not much info about BTN, seems like a typical 27/22 reg. BB on the other hand is a slightly aggro fish. Can bluff pot with air, won't let go a pair and prob any draw as well.
3-bet pre with AQs is certainly a no brainer here.
Fish calls, so far so good.
However, when BTN 4-bets, things start to get dicey. Normally you can't fold such a great hand in this spot, his range is too wide and AQs is too good. Here though, he 4-bets on top of the fish behind and uses a massive sizing. Does that look like { QQ+, AK } exclusively? Should I fold pre? As played, I guess shove is my only option, fish will call anything here and if BTN has something then so be it.
NL Holdem 0.1(BB)
BTN ($15.30) [VPIP: 27.4% | PFR: 22.1% | AGG: 30% | Flop Agg: 34.8% | Turn Agg: 23.1% | River Agg: 44.4% | 3Bet: 6.5% | 4Bet: 20% | Fold to 4Bet: 0% | Hands: 97]
HERO ($10) [VPIP: 28.6% | PFR: 24.2% | AGG: 41.9% | Flop Agg: 48.8% | Turn Agg: 48.6% | River Agg: 36.9% | 3Bet: 10.5% | Fold to 3Bet: 57.6% | 4Bet: 20.2% | Hands: 2158]
BB ($18) [VPIP: 57.4% | PFR: 17.2% | AGG: 39.2% | Flop Agg: 37.9% | Turn Agg: 43.6% | River Agg: 35.7% | 3Bet: 9.3% | 4Bet: 0% | Cold Call: 48.3% | Hands: 125]
HJ ($29.04) [VPIP: 36.6% | PFR: 27.6% | AGG: 37.5% | Hands: 135]
CO ($16.06) [VPIP: 23.4% | PFR: 11.7% | AGG: 34.6% | Hands: 77]
Dealt to Hero: A♣ Q♣
HJ Folds, CO Folds, BTN Raises To $0.27, HERO Raises To $1.20, BB Calls $1.10, BTN Raises To $3, HERO Calls $1.80, BB Calls $1.80
Hero SPR on Flop: [0.78 effective]
Flop ($9): Q♥ 5♦ 8♥
HERO Bets $7 (allin), BB Folds, BTN Calls $7 (Rem. Stack: $5.30)
Turn ($23): Q♥ 5♦ 8♥ 8♦
River ($23): Q♥ 5♦ 8♥ 8♦ J♦
7 Replies
Think we can just fold pre because BB is still acting behind us.
Also don't mind how you played it, think it's fine.
Wouldn't mind shoving pre either.
Hmm interesting. If I was the BTN reg, I'd be 4-bet jamming for easy EQ realization pretty light with hands that are otherwise kind of awkward to play a 3-way 4b-pot post flop, such as 88-QQ, maybe 77, AQo and AKo, which makes me think this properly sized up non-all-in 4-bet against two players is pretty alarming. It looks like they want calls from both you and the fish. Therefore I think I would just believe the story they are telling here, and just fold this one without any additional info.
Cooler spot, but you played it fine.
This spot must be somewhere around 0 EV, given how close your opinions are.
Hmm interesting. If I was the BTN reg, I'd be 4-bet jamming for easy EQ realization pretty light with hands that are otherwise kind of awkward to play a 3-way 4b-pot post flop, such as 88-QQ, maybe 77, AQo and AKo, which makes me think this properly sized up non-all-in 4-bet against two players is pretty alarming. It looks like they want calls from both you and the fish. Theref
True, people often use that kind of sizing with nuts. However, yesterday I saw a guy 4b IP for 30 BB (standard 100 BB stack) and then on some Qxx flop he gave up.
If there's a cold caller in the between, I think BTN "has to" size up. So I think this 30 bb would be close to the optimal size if we give it as an option to a preflop solver. It would be weird to see one of the better regs using any size much smaller than that here. The sizes you've seen in heads-up 4bp spots are imo irrelevant here.
However, I still think that regardless of their sizing choice, their choice of not jamming is worse news, and not good for our hand. Yeah there's a fish with probably a weird range behind left to act, but they still have the option of jamming and therefore denying our equity after our call, which all things included makes me think our call is -EV, and we should just fold here every time.
There are 4b bluffs to combat but I would wait for a high 3b/4b stat over a much larger sample or at least an has-4b-bluff note before not nitting this. You might have seen them occasionally for sure but you can't project the outliers onto a blanket reg type who may or may not face the aggro shove himself.
Without the complication of the fish and the larger 4bet the hand basically plays itself agreed but they are amplifiers of danger here. Even if we're right this time it could be wrong over time because the 4b call is deceptively for our whole stack in reality. Seems expensive
