Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
We should always ignore those who insist negotiations aren't possible because they confuse what people say with where it can end up. Also don't kill those involved with the negotiators
not that I hold out any great hope or this deal lasting but we have to keep trying. No-one knows where talks can eventually lead.
its really just the absurdity of negotiating with a country and ideology and Empire who's stated goal is the complete extermination of every Palestinian throughout the world.
Goal of killing everyone except whites, actually, right victor?
Spoiler
For fun and profit
its really just the absurdity of negotiating with a country and ideology and Empire who's stated goal is the complete extermination of every Palestinian throughout the world.
Absurdity is a feature not a bug.
The idea of the Spanish fighting alongside and even under the command of the british was totally absurd. Similarly the french on the same side as the british against the germans was absurd. History is littered with such absurdities.
Pushing absurdity to it's limits was the idea of Martin McGuinness and Ian Paisley forming a double act.
Smotrich has predictably said he will vote against it.
Odds that when all hostages are released the “clearances” restart?
Almost 55,000 preschool children in Gaza acutely malnourished, Lancet study estimates.
The Lancet is Hamas.
The vast majority of people suck at poker. Just as the vast majority of people suck at geopolitics. For much of the same reason at a 40,000 foot view level. We let our lizard brains take over and make emotional decisions.You are basically making the argument that if a majority group engages in large scale discrimination/persecution of a minority group, it is because there is
Why is scrutinizing Israeli intelligence "large scale discrimination/persecution"?
So far your only response to the argument is to try to fit everyone into the space laser strawman, and to insist that people aren't capable of the most basic strategic thinking.
The fact is that we've seen all sorts of unprecedented, outside-the-box operations, planned decades in advance (would you disagree with this?), which, much like when someone shows an elaborate bluff in poker, leads people to expand the range of possibility of that actor.
I don’t really see the irony and I think you’re focusing on a very minor part of my response. I’m not going to sit here and argue whether or not boiling global geopolitics with a ton of historical context down to a simple poker analogy is correct or not. I think you’re the one primarily interested in why conspiracy theories are spreading, while the rest of us don’t find it al
I'm pressing you because you've often bragged about Mossad's genius operations, all of which required a lot of deception (you don't find this analogous to poker? you don't expect people to view this as analogous to poker?), and I'm showing you that loss of trust is a negative side effect that you aren't considering.
Poor Trump used to always have comedy and tilt-inducement on his side, but now, because of the Epstein files, the Kimmels of the world can roast him while being calm, cool, and collected.
Congratulations everyone!
Great job by President Trump. This all but secures a Nobel Peace Prize for him.
This is great timing for me. I will be going to Israel June 9th-June 30th.
Event cancellations, book bans and coordinated harassment campaigns have proliferated through schools, libraries, and bookstores, targeting authors who have either written about Palestinian life and culture, have supported Palestinian rights, or been caught in the backlash simply for their visibly Muslim identity.
Congratulations everyone!
Great job by President Trump. This all but secures a Nobel Peace Prize for him.
This is great timing for me. I will be going to Israel June 9th-June 30th.
First phase of a cease-fire deal. Not a peace deal. I do not for one second believe Israel will stop bombing Gaza but one can only hope.
As for the praise for Trump. Lol. Bet you celebrated Trump getting a peace deal done between Azerbaijan and Albania also.
I'm pressing you because you've often bragged about Mossad's genius operations, all of which required a lot of deception (you don't find this analogous to poker? you don't expect people to view this as analogous to poker?), and I'm showing you that loss of trust is a negative side effect that you aren't considering.Poor Trump used to always have comedy and tilt-inducement on hi
Ngl, I’m not sure how you got to Mossad operations and where you’re going with this. Maybe some perceived loss of trust will hinder Mossad operations in the future, but you and I are way too ignorant about these matters to have any meaningful discussion. My guess is Mossad’s operations have not been hindered at all due to Israel’s actions over the past 2 years.
Maybe you should clearly state your hypothesis instead of dog walking it out. It’s ok, this is a safe space for voicing antisemitic conspiracy theories.
One second you’re talking about Candace Owen’s gaining 1 million followers and now you’re talking about Mossad. Sorry I’m stupid, can you walk me from point A to point B?
mossad have lost the advantage of others not realising just how big their advantage was. Whether and how much that matters remains to be seen
First phase of a cease-fire deal. Not a peace deal. I do not for one second believe Israel will stop bombing Gaza but one can only hope.
As for the praise for Trump. Lol. Bet you celebrated Trump getting a peace deal done between Azerbaijan and Albania also.
I think Trump deserves some credit here. Doubt Kamala would have got anything done.
I don't. Just like he doesn't deserve any credit for ending the India-Pakistan war. Not my words, India's words.
He didn't end the India-Pakistan war. But he may have a shot at ending this one, firstly because he met a group of Arab leaders to develop an agreement-in-principle that would put Israel on the spot, and secondly because, unlike any US president since Eisenhower in 1956 (when Eisenhower was annoyed for imperial reasons by the Anglo-French-Israeli operation in Suez), he publicly told Israel to knock it off.
Second-term presidents go in for 'legacy' considerations. It's just a thing they do. Clinton tried it and was childishly annoyed that Arafat wouldn't agree to Israel permanently annexing East Jerusalem (which of course the Israelis only proposed in order to make sure that Arafat had to refuse).
He didn't end the India-Pakistan war. But he may have a shot at ending this one, firstly because he met a group of Arab leaders to develop an agreement-in-principle that would put Israel on the spot, and secondly because, unlike any US president since Eisenhower in 1956 (when Eisenhower was annoyed for imperial reasons by the Anglo-French-Israeli operation in Suez), he publicly
He continues to claim he did. I'll give him credit for publicly telling Israel to knock it off. It did nothing, but I won't deny he did that.
Second-term presidents go in for 'legacy' considerations. It's just a thing they do. Clinton tried it and was childishly annoyed that Arafat wouldn't agree to Israel permanently annexing East Jerusalem (which of course the Israelis only proposed in order to make sure that Arafat had to refuse).
It’s pretty controversial what issue was the one that caused the failure of the Camp David Summit. I do think that the issue of the holy sites and Jerusalem was hotly contested, but I don’t think that right of return was ever going to be accepted, so even if it wasn’t discussed it’s because it was a foregone conclusion that it could not be included in any peace deal.
Reagan's detente with Gorbachev is another example, and it probably only happened because of the spectacular failure of the Challenger, the intended legacy "win".
IF you weigh more than an AK-47, you're a risk to Israel.
GAZA: 20,000 CHILDREN KILLED IN 23 MONTHS OF WAR - MORE THAN ONE CHILD KILLED EVERY HOUR
GAZA, 6 September 2025 – At least one Palestinian child has been killed every hour on average by Israeli forces in Gaza over nearly 23 months of war, with the number of children killed now surpassing 20,000, Save the Children said.
The latest data released by the Government Media Office in Gaza showed at least 20,000 children - about 2% of Gaza’s child population - have been killed since October 2023.
At least 1,009 of the children killed were under age one, with nearly half (450) of these babies born and killed during the war. At least 42,011 children have been injured, according to the Ministry of Health, with the UN Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities reporting at least 21,000 children left permanently disabled. Thousands more are missing or presumed buried under rubble.
After 23 months of war, the lives of surviving children are at risk daily. The famine in Gaza Governorate is likely to spread in the coming weeks with over a million people, about half of whom are children, already facing catastrophic hunger, the worst-case IPC Phase 5. At least 132,000 children aged under five face risk of death from acute malnutrition, and at least 135 children have already starved to death, 20 of them since famine was declared on 22 August, according to the Ministry of Health.
unironically, this is exactly what many of them think. a common talking point in their media is that the children will grow up to be "terrorists" so they need to die. this has even seeped into American media where one former Israeli prison guard actually wrote in the Atlantic about how it can be legal to kill children.
even in this thread, a common talking point from both liberal and conservative Israel supporters for many months was how the the "womb of the Palestinian women" was their greatest weapon.
He didn't end the India-Pakistan war. But he may have a shot at ending this one, firstly because he met a group of Arab leaders to develop an agreement-in-principle that would put Israel on the spot, and secondly because, unlike any US president since Eisenhower in 1956 (when Eisenhower was annoyed for imperial reasons by the Anglo-French-Israeli operation in Suez), he publicly
Netanyahu didn’t completely get his way, but Objectively it seems Hamas was forced to make the most major concessions. They are (theoretically) giving back the hostages in a short timeframe while Israel remains in Gaza.
The idea that Trump got the Arab states to force Israel to make concessions seems silly. Clearly he got them to force Hamas to make concessions. What do you imagine the Arab states forced Netanyahu’s hand to do?
It isn’t even obvious to me what part of this deal Netanyahu would be disappointed about. Unless you believe he really wanted Hamas to leave so new leadership could form a peaceful Palestinian state.
With Hamas remaining and keeping their weaponsisnt even on the table anytime soon. And in the ensuing civil war between Gaza and the clans that opposed them, Israel will be able to exert whatever influence it wants.
Seems to be mostly a win for him, not great but not horrible for Hamas (who don’t want a Palestinian state either) and disaster for Palestinian people.
