Sandwiched between a whale and tight reg 2/5NL
2/5 NL game, I have 1200, whale has 800, tight reg covers.
Whale is ready to go home, its 6am, he's on tilt, and he is just trying to punt off the last of his stack. He makes it 15 in EP, which is basically any two cards that look decent, I make it 60 in MP with red AQo, tight reg calls on the button, whale calls.
Flop A 8 4, two clubs. Whale leads for 150, I make it 350 to iso. Tight reg calls. Ugh. Whale ships it in. Hero? We're beating the whale like 90% of the time here. But the red flags are going off when tight reg cold calls 350. What do we do here?
2/5 NL game, I have 1200, whale has 800, tight reg covers. Whale is ready to go home, its 6am, he's on tilt, and he is just trying to punt off the last of his stack. He makes it 15 in EP, which is basically any two cards that look decent, I make it 60 in MP with red AQo, tight reg calls on the button, whale calls. Flop A 8 4, two clubs. Whale leads for 150, I make it 350 to iso
how good is the reg? Will he flat AK and AA pre to keep the whale in?
also, is the A on board the Ac?
how good is the reg? Will he flat AK and AA pre to keep the whale in?
also, is the A on board the Ac?
it's Ad 8c 4c, so an ace + nut flush draw is still possible. The tight reg isn't that good, but I do think he'd flat call with AA/AK to keep the whale in. I also think he'd widen his range to suited broadways on the button knowing that the whale is ready to punt.
Gross spot. It really sucks. Once tight reg calls, hero is toast. Whale has all the tp and sets. You’d have to be confident whale ships a bad Ax to continue heads up. But tight reg now has position
This is the bit I'd think about most.
Do you have no calling range to the donk?
Are you intentionally turning your hand into a bluff vs. BTN?
What hands do you expect BTN to fold to this raise that he'd call if you just called?
I'm fine with the flop raise. I like it. I don't want the tight reg calling w/ his whole range and having to worry about him in the hand, especially if I expect the whale to shove my raise. It's a perfect scenario: heads up w/ top pair vg kicker vs. punting whale.
It just sucks that the tight reg is coming along to the $350. However, he could easily have a big draw. Really depends on how good/tight he is and how he sees hero? What's your image?
Ideally it gets you all-in heads up all-in with a tilted whale while you are miles ahead. It didn't work out that way, but it usually does.
Tight regs button call pre should be pretty wide, and we don't want to give him a turn for great odds, especially when we are OOP.
He's calling from the btn with a tilting whale in the hand. Unless H is an OMC or reg nit, he should be calling pretty wide to stack the whale -- I would be.
Why don't you give us some range for the BTN? Heck, or any insight except that you disagree with me.
Gross spot. It really sucks. Once tight reg calls, hero is toast. Whale has all the tp and sets. You’d have to be confident whale ships a bad Ax to continue heads up. But tight reg now has position
Whale is definitely shipping Ax, it’s a fist pump all in spot without anyone else in the hand
It's tough for us to tell you what to do w/o some table-read on V. You know this player and his range. I'd really hate to fold, but if V has AQ crushed enough of the time, I can understand it. It's ship or fold, obviously. You can't just call.
This is the bit I'd think about most.
Do you have no calling range to the donk?
Are you intentionally turning your hand into a bluff vs. BTN?
What hands do you expect BTN to fold to this raise that he'd call if you just called?
I’m hoping to get all of his flush draws out, possibly even fold out the same hand, and get heads up with the tilting fish who is trying his best to go home.
It's tough for us to tell you what to do w/o some table-read on V. You know this player and his range. I'd really hate to fold, but if V has AQ crushed enough of the time, I can understand it. It's ship or fold, obviously. You can't just call.
I don’t have a super solid read either, he’s not a reg, but he plays pretty snug. My read is that I’m likely crushed and basically praying he has broadway clubs, but the extra $800 donk money in the pot changes the calculus quite a bit.
If whale folded I’d probably check fold turn.
LOL. You called him a tight "reg" in your OP. If you think you are crushed, just cry-fold.
lol yea my bad, I typed that at 7am, just tight player, not reg.
No need to raise flop, you get freerolled by the tight reg when he has AK/88. Just call the donk lead and then the tight reg will play face up.
Whale’s range is trash, but reg’s flat screams strength. I’d fold.
Flop call seems obvious, we’re stacking the whale anyways, and the tight guy is gonna make things easy.
If we just flat the flop, and the tight player calls behind us, we just call the whale's shove on the turn and don't worry about the tight player even though he has position on us we have no idea of his hand strength?
Or do we just fold now assuming that the tight player has us crushed for some reason?
I'm pretty sure if we just flatted the flop everyone would be saying, why didn't you raise?
The real issue is that Hero has put in over half of his stack. Doing that and folding on a regular basis is not winning poker. At this point, I have no advice about avoiding getting butt ****ed. Just stick it in on the hope that the villain isn't a thinking player.
Think about it: H calls $150, V calls $150. Turn (~$630) is a blank. Whale shoves. H? Do you just sigh-call and hope V folds or calls w/ worse? Do you fold?
What if turn is a club?
Think about it: H calls $150, V calls $150. Turn (~$630) is a blank. Whale shoves. H Do you just sigh-call and hope V folds or calls w/ worse Do you fold
What if turn is a club
At worst, ranges from V will be better if we call and our hand is less defined for V.
Raising "for information", or however you want to describe "we have a good hand but are raising and praying V folds" ... isn't a thing in solver land. In fact it's so much not a real thing, that I actually see it fairly often from people who are otherwise pretty good and it's kind of in counter exploit territory.
Hence my first post ... think about wtf you are doing here and why. Because if you aren't intentionally exploiting somebody else here then there's a real possibility that you are getting exploited, if only by accident.
