Most absurd poker "thinking" you have heard in a live game?
MGM - Detroit
1/2 (50/300)
I thought this might be a fun thread for the live game players.
I was playing yesterday. A guy c
I never said perfect riffles anywhere. I agree with you that they need to be imperfect (i.e. normal, i.e. non-magician/mechanic riffles). I agree that a strip helps ensure there are no perfect riffles involved.All the 7 riffle sources I read are for imperfect riffles, and they say that... 7 riffles are needed to create a random deck. Obviously if you're doing perfect riffles
Was not implying that you confused perfect or imperfect riffs. Was providing additional details that others might not have.
Yes 7 riffs was obviously based on imperfect riffs. But I don’t think the study says perfectly random. As you alluded to previously I am not sure how to describe levels of randomness. Though I assume those do exist. And while I have a concept in my head what perfect randomness is, I don’t know how it is measured and quantified. I think the study found it to be random enough.
I don’t think I said 4 riffs with a strip would get to perfectly random. In fact I think I wrote or intended to say that casinos have found it to be random enough. But the riff is critical because a perfect riff, even on accident, isn’t rare.
I believe I said the standard process is random enough and seems to have worked good enough in my experience. How casinos landed on this I don’t know. I agree they likely more focused on the fewest riffs that are good enough so they get more hands out.
But honestly when you include the natural movement of cards during the hand, a lot of randomness gets worked in. How/order cards get to dealer on folds, how cards get put into middle of muck. How board and showdown hands are collected is like a mini wash, etc. with all of this, we are starting with a pretty randomized order. This then goes thru a good enough randomizing process.
How we got here I can’t say for certain. I definitely can’t prove it mathematically, but ime lack of perfect randomness does not drive my win/loss rate.
A wash means all cards spread out over the table and shuffled. Instead of just rippling them or doing the level shuffle.
Every so often the cards need to be messed up
Promise you that Didace knows what a wash is.
If you believe a wash is necessary to achieve enough randomness on this shuffle, shouldn’t you do a wash before every shuffle?
Put another way. If hand 0 just completed and you do a wash to make sure hand 1 is more random than 0 was, how much will this wash improve the randomness oh hand 2? 3?
If you are using a shuffle procedure that provides ‘good enough’ randomness, how many hands do you need to wait till you need another wash? What objective criteria are used to know when a wash is needed.
Reality is that if normal shuffle procedure is achieving good enough randomness, will adding a wash increase randomness. There are multiple better trained math minds here than me, but I am pretty sure (been a few decades) that randomizing a perfect random distribution will not make it more random.
Promise you that Didace knows what a wash is.If you believe a wash is necessary to achieve enough randomness on this shuffle, shouldn’t you do a wash before every shuffle?Put another way. If hand 0 just completed and you do a wash to make sure hand 1 is more random than 0 was, how much will this wash improve the randomness oh hand 2? 3? If you are using a shuffle procedur
Incorrect. A good shuffle every so often can help. I don't have time to do it every hand because I just do the ripple one. but I do the full one after a while especially if i'm card dead or if someone says "i've had the same 2 cards every hand here" :-) box ticked
The is random, and there is not random. There is no more. Of course for our purposes, all we need is effectively random.
Incorrect. A good shuffle every so often can help. I don't have time to do it every hand because I just do the ripple one. but I do the full one after a while especially if i'm card dead or if someone says "i've had the same 2 cards every hand here" :-) box ticked
Not incorrect or at least you provide zero evidence to show I am incorrect.
How does a good shuffle differ from a normal shuffle? What is a ripple? What is a full one?
You realize if you do a “whatever is a good shuffle” procedure when you have been card dead, thinking this will improve your cards, you are trying to cheat to help yourself. Ofc since I don’t believe a wash, assuming that is what you mean, really matters, I would not care.
Now if your normal shuffle is consistently bad, as in inadequate procedure, I will note it for others and leave. Also this is far from objectively. You are falling into recency bias. It happens.
Just follow a good procedure, like the normal 3-strip-1-cut making sure you do good riffs but not perfect. If you are following good procedure, a wash is never truly needed except maybe on a box ordered deck.
The is random, and there is not random. There is no more. Of course for our purposes, all we need is effectively random.
But how do random and effectively random differ?
if you notice a lot of the cards are the same there's nothing wrong with announcing that you're gonna wash the deck with a longer than usual shuffle.
WTF is it to “wash the deck with a longer than usual shuffle”?
BTW this is classic recency bias.
WTF is it to “wash the deck with a longer than usual shuffle”?
BTW this is classic recency bias.
What's longer than usual? When a person has been rippling and doing the hand shuffle every hand up until now and then makes a big mess with an all over the table shuffle.
You are classic "action bias"
Rolf Dobelli
What's longer than usual? When a person has been rippling and doing the hand shuffle every hand up until now and then makes a big mess with an all over the table shuffle.
You are classic "action bias"
Rolf Dobelli
First it is called a RIFF not ripple.
But yes,
do you mean you do more riffs?
Do you do a wash and normal riffs!
You do realize that more riffs are not necessarily better? As has been discussed here, 7 perfect riffs puts the cards back to exact original positions. So say your normally do 4 riffs but now you do 8, the order could be like you only did one riff.
Recommendations
1. Adopt a procedure that you ALWAYS follow.
2. ALWAYS include a strip near the final riff
3. Something like 3-5 riffs is what casinos and large cardrooms choose
4. If you want to do a wash, or someone asks, just add it up front then follow the normal procedure (Note I have not seen that a wash is ever needed if you follow a good normal procedure. Was requests are simply superstition. But if it keeps players happy fine. They don’t hurt except for the speed)
Any dealers here can confirm or correct me. I believe the most common procedure in casinos/card rooms is:
1. Collect and straighten. Always have the cards backs toward players (I am guessing here as I forget. Dealers can confirm or when I am playing tonite I will watch. Key is it is always the same.)
2. Do 3 riffs
3. Do a strip (since riffs can be deterministic but strips are almost always “random” including a strip is a MUST)
4. Do 1 final riff
5. Perform a ONE handed cut placing cut onto a cut card
Do it this way every time.
As I said there is no reason a wash will ever be necessary but if you choose to include one occasionally, just include wash up front then shuffle the same procedure.
More riffs, iow a longer shuffle, won’t help. In fact if you don’t include a strip more riffs can hurt.
Just follow this procedure every time. IMO entities with more knowledge, experience and more at stake than I have studies and optimized this.
First it is called a RIFF not ripple.But yes, do you mean you do more riffs?Do you do a wash and normal riffs!You do realize that more riffs are not necessarily better? As has been discussed here, 7 perfect riffs puts the cards back to exact original positions. So say your normally do 4 riffs but now you do 8, the order could be like you only did one riff.Recommendations1. Adop
The deck still needs a wash.
If you have a good shuffle procedure and follow it, cards never need a wash.
Dumb question, but what is a "strip" with regards to card shuffling?
It's when the dealer takes the top 20% of the deck and pulls it off into a second pile, then takes the next 20% and puts it on top of the pile he just formed, and continues 2-3 more times. If you have a table where the shuffle machine is broken or a room without them or a tournament that isn't using them (for some dumb reason), watch the dealers and you should see them do it towards the end of their riffle shuffling.
This video shows him doing it a couple times (I didn't really watch the whole video, just looked for an example of a strip shuffle): https://youtu.be/9kitRIXvVUc?t=5
1. Collect and straighten. Always have the cards backs toward players (I am guessing here as I forget. Dealers can confirm or when I am playing tonite I will watch. Key is it is always the same.)2. Do 3 riffs3. Do a strip (since riffs can be deterministic but strips are almost always “random” including a strip is a MUST)4. Do 1 final riff5. Perform a ONE handed cut placing cut
I've always been taught RRSRC, and backs face towards the dealer to make it harder for us to manipulate the cards. If you do the shuffle correctly, the players can't follow along anyway.
Another bug bearer is when people say "same 400 again" after betting 400 on the flop say. As if they want to make a point of it being the same bet.
Bug bear.
it's a bugger
just realised i thought this thread was most absurd THING you have heard.
This site offers a variety of useful guides.
it's true but sometimes the deck has not quite been shuffled well enough. Same suits coming out and all that. Usually time to give it a wash when that happens.
You're putting your ignorance on display with that remark.
Not really. There was a guy yesterday who delt the 2 kings on the flop 3 times in a row and it was the same suits. He then gave the deck a wash and it didn't happen a 4th time.
BTW giving the deck a wash is not something i made up.. i heard someone else talk about it and I asked what it meant. So don't have a go at me for thinking this.
Not really. There was a guy yesterday who delt the 2 kings on the flop 3 times in a row and it was the same suits. He then gave the deck a wash and it didn't happen a 4th time.
BTW giving the deck a wash is not something i made up.. i heard someone else talk about it and I asked what it meant. So don't have a go at me for thinking this.
You're putting your ignorance on display with that remark.
