Serious 3bet with AJo
The very hand before he opened and I jammed something better, I don’t remember what, AQo I think, and he folded. He was also a newbie with close to 0 stats on GG. Now I’m a bit deeper and you told me not to flat so I 3bet. My intention was to 3b/fold cause of 27bb and AJo. I’d 3b/call AJs reluctantly. Flop sizing was also to 3b/fold in case of a set. Yes I know I was pot commited but I’m just presenting my thinking at that moment. I’m all ears
20 Replies
Deep ITM, 40 left, far for. Bubble
I might be wrong here but I think we can just fold this preflop. As played that flop doesn't really hit your range, and villain has the nut advantage (he has at least 77, and possibly 55 and 33). In these small stakes tournaments I've noticed people doing a lot of calling with small to middling pocket pairs that don't hit the set on boards like this when we take the line of betting flop then ripping it allin by the river. I check flop trying to get to showdown. Fold to any bet.
OK. Then the 3-bet is fine although I would proceed cautiously.
I would bet smaller on the flop. I don't think we want to b33 often in 3-bet pots. We mostly want to split more between b20 and b50, and I don't think we're deep enough to b50. So I'd do something more like b20 if I did bet.
I don't know why you shoved the turn or what you hope to accomplish. Especially at this stakes, folding an overpairs is very unlikely. If I miss the turn, I'm taking the free card and trying to get there. I might shove the turn if I turned a heart and I thought I could fold out an overpair, but I don't think it's the right play-- I don't think you fold out overpairs often, and having the Ah seriously cuts down on the flush draw combos villain will have here (and all of which you should be ahead of right now anyway).
But back to my first point-- I don't think you're getting better hands to fold or worse hands to call with your turn shove.
I might be wrong here but I think we can just fold this preflop. As played that flop doesn't really hit your range, and villain has the nut advantage (he has at least 77, and possibly 55 and 33). In these small stakes tournaments I've noticed people doing a lot of calling with small to middling pocket pairs that don't hit the set on boards like this when we take the line of bet
Given the positions (and that I assume 40 left is out of a whole lot, maybe four-figure runners), folding would be OK too.
3-betting is pretty opponent-dependent, especially at these stakes where players are less predictable. I'd 3-bet a player who was opening too much (and thus had more folds in their range) or who just folded to 3-bets too much. Other than that, it would depend on other factors.
I don't mind a b20 on the flop but I'm probably shutting it down after that. Villain should have a pretty strong range here.
If I was taking a line like this I'd need to know that villain would be calling pre and stacking off on the turn with stuff like A4 or AT. Seems like a long shot bet to make.
I might be wrong here but I think we can just fold this preflop. As played that flop doesn't really hit your range, and villain has the nut advantage (he has at least 77, and possibly 55 and 33). In these small stakes tournaments I've noticed people doing a lot of calling with small to middling pocket pairs that don't hit the set on boards like this when we take the line of bet
You are very close but it was much more idiotic than just a set
Funny, whenever I play like I think you’d all like me to, I come here and post a hand and I hear that what I did was THE EXACT OPPOSITE of a 2+2 approved conduct. I 3betted with disgust where I’d normally flat/fold if missed. Then I cbetted 30% and I thought that was too little, I wasn’t aware that I “was allowed” to bet less, that’s good to know, I was kind of worried my cbet sizing would be ridiculed here. Then I shoved turn which was a disaster cause the turn card was my grave in this hand. Jokes aside, I was 100% sure you’d say to bet more otf to shove turn
This is why oldsilver suggested you study, because you don't seem to be grasping how to apply certain concepts or the lessons to take from e.g. solver lines and ranges.
3-betting is better than flatting this late in the tournament, but that doesn't mean we want to 3-bet every hand we would flat for cEV and it doesn't mean we just blast off postflop.
I'll repeat: Why did you shove the turn?
Funny, whenever I play like I think you’d all like me to, I come here and post a hand and I hear that what I did was THE EXACT OPPOSITE of a 2+2 approved conduct. I 3betted with disgust where I’d normally flat/fold if missed. Then I cbetted 30% and I thought that was too little, I wasn’t aware that I “was allowed” to bet less, that’s good to know, I was kind of worried my cbet
Yeah it's ok to make mistakes dude that's why we're all on this forum. I blew a whole stack at cash earlier today making an idiot call I wouldn't make again. Like Nath said just do more studying. I'd start with GTO Wizard, Equilab, keep posting here and go watch Lex Veldhuis on YouTube he's been streaming lately and has really informative content mostly based on tournaments. Once you get some more money you can invest in better study materials.
One thing I will say specifically though is it seems you need to better grasp the very most basic concepts of theoretical play (like opening ranges and flop c-bets) and exploitative play(attacking your opponents strategic deviations from GTO). A long time ago Doug Polk described his playstyle as hugely based on GTO with small to moderate deviations based on what his opponents do. I've adopted that framework and it works very well for me. Once you get a solid baseline for what theory says you should do, then you can think about things like "I saw my opponent showdown J7s after raising UTG, he's way too wide preflop and the players behind me aren't 3-betting enough so I can try to punish him by 3-betting him more frequently". Then if you're in a spot where theory wouldn't 3-bet AJo, but the situation fits, you can do it profitably.
This is why oldsilver suggested you study, because you don't seem to be grasping how to apply certain concepts or the lessons to take from e.g. solver lines and ranges.3-betting is better than flatting this late in the tournament, but that doesn't mean we want to 3-bet every hand we would flat for cEV and it doesn't mean we just blast off postflop.I'll repeat: Why did you shove
This is how im confronting my biases now, let’s call it studying too. Today I woke up earlier so I’ll have couple hours to run some sims. I also looked up for a pdf of Endgame ICM but haven’t found it yet. Can’t afford the legit one for now. Why did I shove? Pot odds I guess, I thought it’s better to shove and make him fold 5-10% of the time than be forced to call with A high. I wouldn’t fold it after spewing 50% of my stack, I guess I was pot commited enough to justify it. Also I though you’d like it
Yeah it's ok to make mistakes dude that's why we're all on this forum. I blew a whole stack at cash earlier today making an idiot call I wouldn't make again. Like Nath said just do more studying. I'd start with GTO Wizard, Equilab, keep posting here and go watch Lex Veldhuis on YouTube he's been streaming lately and has really informative content mostly based on tournaments. On
Yes. When I started playing 15 years ago there was a sngwiz and a poker stove (lol) which crashed the cpu. GTO? That was an abstract concept by then, or at least not in wide usage. When I came back now I realized there are apps for everything, I’m old tho and need to force myself then so I’d not stay that much behind. Thanks for the tips and the names, googling it
After his turn check I meant cause it’s usually a sign of weakness to check call flop and check turn. Or a monster, but my approach is that I play on what is evident, not on my guesses. If he’s passive then I technically assume that he’s weak and put pressure. In case I’m wrong, which is like 20-30% of the times, well, then I’m just wrong
Deep ITM AJo might be a preflop fold. Your opponent should be opening quite a bit tighter than they would in the early stages of a tournament. If you're going to play it I like the 3-bet though.
Flop seems fine. Maybe you could go a little smaller.
Honestly I don't hate the turn jam as a bluff. You do want to have some bluffs here. You're definitely not committed though. You could just check back and fold to a river bet if you don't hit an ace or jack.
You need to start thinking more in terms of ranges. What kind of range are you 3-betting pre? What is he calling with?
On the flop you have a range advantage with all the strongest over pairs and a small bet with everything is reasonable (agree with Nath 20% is probably better but 33% isn't horrible).
On the turn you're going to want to polarize. Jam your strong overpairs for value along with some bluffs. Honestly AJo is not horrible as a bluff, but I would probably prefer bluffing with something like KQ. Both have six outs to a pair, but KQ unblocks Ax. That makes it more likely that your opponent might have something like Ax with a back door flush draw that would float the flop then fold to the turn jam.
Again thinking in ranges. I try to always picture my opponents range. Is he the sticky type that is liable to float your flop bet with ace high? If so I don't hate the turn bluff.
If he's the type that is only calling the flop bet with a pair or better. Did this turn card hit us in such a way as to change anything? Not really. So in that case he's probably not going to fold and I would prefer to just check back.
Deep ITM AJo might be a preflop fold. Your opponent should be opening quite a bit tighter than they would in the early stages of a tournament. If you're going to play it I like the 3-bet though.Flop seems fine. Maybe you could go a little smaller.Honestly I don't hate the turn jam as a bluff. You do want to have some bluffs here. You're definitely not committed though. You coul
Yes, I saw the 3 OTT as a brick ant that’s why I jammed as a continuation of a 3bet otf. It just turned out that he was a newbie calling station that didn’t fold A3 to a 3 bet pre, then to a cbet OTF. I guess that a “normal” player would give up sooner. As per jamming, yes I’m behind most of the time but still I can make someone fold another ace high or a flush draw (and there are two fds)
After his turn check I meant cause it’s usually a sign of weakness to check call flop and check turn. Or a monster, but my approach is that I play on what is evident, not on my guesses.
"Check/call flop, check turn" is extremely standard for nearly everything he calls the 3-bet with.
Why did I shove? Pot odds I guess, I thought it’s better to shove and make him fold 5-10% of the time than be forced to call with A high. I wouldn’t fold it after spewing 50% of my stack, I guess I was pot commited enough to justify it. Also I though you’d like it
You aren't committed to anything, and this justification sounds like you're not really thinking about what your opponent's range is, what kind of hands you are targeting to fold, and if they will fold.
You need to start thinking more in terms of ranges. What kind of range are you 3-betting pre? What is he calling with?
This is an important point, I think. If we start from reasonable ranges, the preflop call should be pretty tight, and the flop call isn't going to contain many hands we beat. And then this...
Again thinking in ranges. I try to always picture my opponents range. Is he the sticky type that is liable to float your flop bet with ace high? If so I don't hate the turn bluff. If he's the type that is only calling the flop bet with a pair or better. Did this turn card hit us in such a way as to change anything? Not really. So in that case he's probably not going to fold and
The turn not changing anything is a big factor in checking back. The turn doesn't give the value hands villain has any reason to fold. If he's floating light with weaker ace-high hands than ours, then there's no reason to try to bluff them out. The turn shove seems to me like it's going to get called by all the hands that beat us and get folds from all the hands we beat.
Fold pre unless the guy is known lag
