Delay c-bet or barrel?
5/5
~$1000 effective
BU - He tends to open to $25
SB - Unknown. So far playing very passive and straightforward.
BU opens to $20, SB calls, Hero(BB) 2♦2♥ 3bets to $100, BU folds, SB calls
Flop($220) A♥ J♠ 9♦
x x
Turn($220) 6♦
SB checks, Hero - ?
Is this a good spot to delay cbet? His range connects well with this board, so he’s basically only folding small connectors and low pairs, which I can still fold out OTT. By checking I get more info on his range.
Yea it's good spot to delay cbet on turn once you checked back, when you check back Axx flop you actually rep a weak Ace, or some KK/QQ type hand and maybe some super slowplayed hands like AA/JJ.
So maybe for starters try betting 130ish.
If he calls. He's either got weak showdown hand or a draw.
If he check/raises, it means he slowplayed a monster but this is rare.
Once river is a blank/low card, I think we can barrel big and get him his whole range.
Three betting 22 oop into two players is just torching money. Just call pre and set mine at this stack depth. Or even better, fold pre
I probably wouldn't bet turn after checking back the flop. If he checks again on the river, I might over-bet to get a range fold.
I just flat pre to set mine. Once I 3bet pre, I'm betting this flop. I don't mind the delayed c-bet too much, though, and definitely do it here vs. a passive, straight forward player who checked behind on flop. Make it $125. You need to follow up on most rivers if called.
I'm ok with 3betting 22 here if you feel very confident postflop against your opponents, but against better opponents calling is better. These small pairs flop horribly - rather have 78o then 22. I think I would just check the turn and showdown - is he really folding Jx to one bet after you checked the flop? Might be better off just betting the flop on the smaller side - I would think he'd bet bluffs on the turn so his checking range might be weighted more towards x/c hands that beat you. Probably just a function of how the population plays these games
Was the 3bet pf for value or a bluff?
The flop is fairly dry, so a delayed cbet is fine. I'd do the same thing if I had the ace.
grunch: pre, this 3bet makes absolutely no sense to me. Someone who typically opens to $25 opens to $20 - this often means a stronger hand than usual, that wants action. Plus we don't have a hand that really wants to 3bet. Just flat.
Flop: I haven't checked GTO land, but I think this flop is a spot where we can range bet 1/3rd pot, though there is a decent argument for betting 3/4rds pot as well with some of our range.
Turn: just keep checking, we have a terrible hand, terrible equity, low bluff value (which is why we shouldn't be 3betting here with 22)
Ok I checked GTO land, we never have 22 here but we have a sliver of 66 and 77 pre, and it has us checking our whole range 1/3rd of the time, betting 20%-33% half the time, and then a small amount of 50-75% bets. Our small pairs like this are mixing, checking 70% of the time and then mostly betting 1/3rd-75%.
OTT, if we make the turn a 7 instead of a 6 (since we don't have any pairs below a 6 in GTO land), we're 100% checking back all of our sixes.
If he's opening from the BTN, it means he's fairly wide, which also means he's less likely to have a hand he's going to be wedded to.
If he's opening from the BTN, it means he's fairly wide, which also means he's less likely to have a hand he's going to be wedded to.
I dunno if this is an argument for 3betting or for folding, but if it is for 3betting - we clearly don't want to 3bet 100% of hands vs a button open. K5s makes a much better 3bet than 22, because it has better blockers and higher EV across a range of flops. Most of the value of 22 comes from getting a set, and 3betting reduces SPR which reduces how strong of a hand you need to get all in, which reduces the value of sets.
I'll be honest, I'm not sure you know what you're doing on any street.
Which is fine, that's a sign that you picked the right hand history to review, but the scope of your question sounds too small potatoes.
How are you forming a resteal squeeze range against a 4bb open?
What is your sizing and frequency for cbetting the flop, and how are you selecting what hands go in each bucket?
Your thoughts OTT are well outlined, so kudos there.
If he's opening from the BTN, it means he's fairly wide, which also means he's less likely to have a hand he's going to be wedded to.
I see your point, but I would 3bet 22 in the SB vs BTN only if I had a read. In my game of loose passives, Vs mostly limp 22 on the BTN. An open bet means a tighter range, something like 99+, AJo+.
Depending on villains, often folding pre, but truly never raising this hand from the bb.
As played, I don’t care about folding out this or that solver stuff - villain checked twice, so I’m betting pot ($220) and they fold 98% of the time. You played it as a bluff so follow through.
Just don’t see villain checking twice and then check-raising you. He gave up, so take the pot.
Where is this 5/5 game being played?
I disagree with range betting flop. I also disagree with taking pocket 22 to showdown here. I think we should turn this tiny shred of SDV into a turn bluff.
If V calls the turn, are you barreling the river? On any card, or only certain cards? Which cards?
Why are you turning your hand into a bluff on the turn? Why not the flop? Why not the river?
Not trying to pick a fight with you. Just curious about the logic going into the decision to bluff turn, and the plan for what happens after.
FWIW - I think it's a mistake to 3B pre. I think many here agree. The question should be, what's the best way to proceed once we make that mistake?
It's probably worth considering what SB's range looks like when he double-flats. That's fishy AF, and he's apparently an unknown / passive player, so it's hard to draw many inferences with any degree of confidence.
Since we know jack squat about him and his range, is this really the spot where we want to continue bluffing, on either the flop or the turn? Or should we cut our losses and not put more money in?
If V checks to us again on the river, THEN I could see making a play for this, if we're willing to commit to the bluff by over-betting. Otherwise, it seems like we don't know nearly enough about V to attempt to bluff him on this board.
Seems to me like trying to bluff our way out of this on the flop or turn is just compounding our pre-flop mistake.
I never squeeze this preflop, but if I did I would bet small on the flop and size up on the turn. To me, this is a great bluffing board and spot. He should be capped at AJ/99 and most people love to put the 3-better on AK. We could just bet 3 streets and get him to fold almost everything.
The biggest problem is the SPR is only 4 so stack sizes are a little awkward.
I think going 25% flop, 66% turn, and a little more than pot on the river is our best option.
We can't just shrivel up when our opponent double flats out of position. His range is too wide and too capped + our blockers don't interact with any broadway cards so we will get a lot of folds on later streets.
I’d just check it down, that board smashes his flatting range and your 22 has basically no equity. Delayed c-bet isn’t doing much here.
Good luck finding a chart where SB cold calls 4bb BTN open, full stop (without antes/dead money, with rake, etc).
In the real world, AA is the only two pair+ hand I’m surprised to run into here. JJ is the only other of those hands I wouldn’t expect villain to have in *more* concentration than us.
How much “capped” matters OTF at this SPR is another question.
This dude showed up with 77. I decided to take the SDV line as played. My preflop range was a bit wider than usual because of the SB caller and having position on him. Also, the BU opened smaller than usual $20 instead of the typical $25–30. $20 is a completely standard open in these games.
