Maniac sitting directly behind, how to play
2/5 8 handed
V1 is a maniac, I know him from plo, he opens huge with any2, bets with random stuff and will pay you off if you check/raise him
V2 I have no clue how he plays, only played 1 hand vs him
Spoiler
V2 opens to 25 in Hj, Hero in Btn 3bets to 75
Flop QT9sss
V2 checks H bets 50, V jams for like 300 on top. H folds.
V2 should know V1 is a maniac and a huge fish by now.
Effective 600
Preflop
V1 straddle for 10
V2 opens in Co to 20
Hero in BB with A♣T♠ calls. (normally I 3bet or fold)
V1 calls.
Pot 60
Flop T♠6♦5♣
H checks, plans on check/raising V1
V1 checks
V2 bets 25
Hero??? call? raise? fold?
Was I supposed to donk to get V1 to call/raise?
18 Replies
I don't like AT OOP versus someone who could 3-bet if the voices in his head tell him to and a player who is aware of that and raised him anyway.
As played, I'm probably calling for pot control against a possible JJ+ and to keep the whale in.
What marchron wrote. I don't like calling BB w/ ATo vs these guys. I just fold pre. As played, call and see what happens.
Ok
H calls
V1 calls
Pot 135
Turn 6♥
H checks
V1 checks
V2 bets 25???
What are worried about on flop? Some sets, maybe 56. We are ahead of the rest assuming big pairs don’t min raise a maniac pre. Check raise flop, likely checking turn.
Would be really nice to have more info on V2. Is he "trapping" w/ JJ+? Why bet the turn when he can just check behind and see a free river? H and V1 should not be folding much if they called on the flop. Just a weird hand. I probably call and then kick myself when he over-bets river, but I wouldn't be here 😉
Ok flop
H calls
V1 calls
Pot 135
Turn 6♥
H checks
V1 checks
V2 bets 25
H calls
V1 calls
Pot 210
River Q♥
H checks
V1 checks
V2 bets 50???
On V1, he's checked or called like 6 times in this hand and not bet or raised once, and he's a mainiac????
Is this just reallly abnormal behavior from him?
If not, we may have our definitions different. I think of mainiacs as almost never checking or calling, but constantly betting and raising.
On V1, he's checked or called like 6 times in this hand and not bet or raised once, and he's a mainiac????
Is this just reallly abnormal behavior from him?
If not, we may have our definitions different. I think of mainiacs as almost never checking or calling, but constantly betting and raising.
He's a maniac when he has initiative, when he doesn't he's a whale
PRE - fold. It's not terrible to call with ATo, but it's cuspy.
FLOP - as played, check-call.
TURN - V's "same bet" on the board-pairing turn looks like he may be worried. I probably check-call.
RIVER - Hard to fold getting over 5:1. We only need to be good here 1/6 of the time. I dunno. I might pay this off, even though we block combos of AK/AJ that might raise pre and barrel off like this.
I would have started off donkbetting the flop. Seems like a pretty good flop to start getting thick value against Mister Any Two Cards Whale behind you.
Spoiler
I ended up calling river, maniac/whale folds saying he woulda called if I didn't call.
V2 shows 68o and won.
I feel I messed up in hand somewhere just not exactly sure where.
Maybe donk flop was best. Forcing v2 to raise/call/fold to play a bit more faced up with maniac/whale in between us.
Maybe turn was a fold since he's not betting again without better vs 2. But it was super tiny bet compared to pot size.
Aggression Wins!
If you 3Bet pre-flop or on the flop, 68o goes away - you were thinking these things, but didn’t do it.
If you’re going to play a marginal hand OOP, which many don’t recommend, I think you play it fast and fold to aggression. You hit TPTK and still didn’t fire.
None of us could anticipate villain with a six, so you let villain catch-up & he bet small for value with his monster which looks confusing.
So, because you would not take the initiative, villain fired, hit his hand and tricked you into calls.
If you intend to play passively OOP, you should probably fold everything pre-flop that’s not a premium hand.
Calling flop for pot control is fine here.. AT OOP isn’t strong enough to get tricky, and you’ll mostly just let the maniac pay you off.
when OOP to fish you always want to lead to make sure they call. They are much more likely to call your donkbet than they are to call after 'checking to the raiser' because at that point they have a lot of information about who's left in the hand.
Calling with ATo from BB with UTG straddle still to act is pretty bad: 3bet or fold.
As played, this shallow (we started 60x effective) there isn't much of a pot to control and TPTK seems good enough to me to start piling money in: so either donk or C/R flop.
As played flop, the runout kind of sucks on both turn and river.
Turn I guess you have to call.
River is gross: V2's bet is really small and gives you great odds, but at the same time it's never a bluff, so the question is which value do you beat that bets into two people for 3 streets.
This is the type of hand that breaks or makes a monster session. we know both are playing against the maniac.
as played i am either giving the manic credit (doubtful if i called with AT). i would most likely have shoved on the turn and paid V who would have had trouble calling any bet without a 6 a likely weaker ace or TT.
