The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

The great "Poker is rigged" debate - Collected threads edition

Bad beats are part of the game. I understand that. But after absorbing more than my fair share on Poker Stars I switched

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22 July 2008 at 04:53 AM
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2050 Replies


Earlier posts are available on our legacy forum HERE

by Slugant

I really wonder what you think of this and hope you can answer honestly:
For instance, we have all seen that Johnmir average stake is $ 0.43 over the last 6 years.
Do you think its OK for Johnmir to write everywhere that his games are $100 sng's ??
Do you think a person that lies about stuff like this is to be trusted in general?

Slugant!


Thanks got I checked my BIO, lol...

I say, I do play "10$-100$ MTT". Not SnG!

And I played it earlier. This info is just outdated, because I stopped playing!

Man...

Last time I played seriously, I played 109$ MTT on PartyPoker! 20.05.2019, man! My last 109$ MTT. And since 2020 - I don't play poker for other aim, then sharing with people, what is going on in online poker sphere! I don't even play 2$ tournaments. Do you really think, I can't play 2$ tournaments, lol? I don't play it, because it is senseless to play for me. It's not a random game.

You and many other guys here say "wow, you think it's rigged, but you keep playing. You are delusional!"

And when I say "THAT IS WHY I only play micros" - you say "John, you play micros! You are so much disappointed with your results, your fragile ego... 😃 hurts so much!". You say "no, John, you PLAY micros in a rigged game!"

Lmao, I do not care if I win/lose micros. That is why I "play" it. Who would ever care about something, which is not ANY important!


Even when you explain fully your motives, why each of us carry on playing, why it would be fruitless to post hands and everything else that has previously been fully explained…..

You can put your money on Slugant putting up a post asking the same questions and using the word shill 25 times…

Slugant makes this thread a full Groundhog Day experience…..


by Johnmir

Mike, you are right here. That while most players are unable to analize my materials, it could be a good idea to play micros in a result-oriented mode.Because some of the "rooms defenders" appeal to "the game avolves" statement. It sounds funny, since we talk about micro-gaming, where pure newcomers of the game play for fun )) But, yes, I should probably play some result-orient

Why do you only "think" about it now and not during your 6 year (or even longer) period of losing at the micros.
Havent you realized before that is an absolute vital part of your analysis?

by Johnmir

I'm not interested in playing this "rigged" games to be fair.

But you have done so for almost a decade?? All to prove something you claim... yet you refuse to finish your investigation. Thats 6 years of poor time management... from a very poor analyst

by Johnmir

I refused playing on several poker sites, having 30%+ ROI! Because in my opinion this ROI level is simply unacceptable for poker. I'm not ready to waste my real life abilities and to be limited by some other people (the room owners).

So 6+ years of -25bb/100 at 10nl and losing at 0.43 avg stake is more acceptable than actually winning?
You make so little sense

by Johnmir

TheWaddy, thank you for understanding, really. My motivation is not too obvious for many people

You really like your ass being kissed huh 🙂
Your motivation is unclear because in 6 years time you could have done your research.
Yet you spent 100% of that time losing and 0% proving how to play on sites and actually win. Therefore your only motivation seems to be making up stuff so you dont have to live with the fact that you suck at poker.

by Johnmir

I say, I do play "10$-100$ MTT". Not SnG!
And I played it earlier. This info is just outdated, because I stopped playing!

Now you are reaching new troll level.
You think there is a problem with me saying you play $100 sng's when its actually $100 mtt...
But NOT with the fact that you claim to play those $100 mtt's but are actually 0.43 and average buyin???

You are truly insane if you think this way. Does make sense why you keep on lying about everything and not adressing those lies when asked about them.

If your bio is "outdated", update it. Why continue with your lies???
If some asks you your age. Do you think its honest to say you are 12 years old because you once were???

How can you morally still let it stand on your bio that you play $100 mtt's when you not even on 0.5% of that?


by TheWaddy

Even when you explain fully your motives, why each of us carry on playing, why it would be fruitless to post hands and everything else that has previously been fully explained…..

You can put your money on Slugant putting up a post asking the same questions and using the word shill 25 times…

Slugant makes this thread a full Groundhog Day experience…..

Whereas losing players complaining about the RNG but never actually providing substantial things is nothing like groundhog day??

Cmon man, dont make arguments that are so easy to throw back in your face

And I only call you a shill because you claim to have hand-based evidence that would never happen in a fair RNG yet you NEVER shown any. If your claims are true you are witholding crucial evidence against these fraudulent sites and thus are protecting them.
Yet you called me a shill several times just for not finding the stuff about rigged rng's strong enough.
You can say stuff is fully explained before but it simply isnt, like your 4outer avalanches, you can explain them all you want in words but without data its just a tale.

And as to the repeating of questions, if they simply got answered I wouldnt have to.

You stick up for John because he is on your team, but you ignored serious questions I asked you about him, which you havent explained at all.

I really wonder what you think of this and hope you can answer honestly:
For instance, we have all seen that Johnmir average stake is $ 0.43 over the last 6 years.
Do you think its OK for Johnmir to write everywhere that his games are $100 mtt's ??
Do you think a person that lies about stuff like this is to be trusted in general?

You think John has a good understanding and knows the algorithm of the "playstation deck" very well.
I would argue, he doesnt. Since he just keeps losing.
If he did knew the algorithm like he thinks the results would have been better. So maybe he is not really the guy you can trust to have any expertise on the subject.

Lets put it this way waddy:
You think there is a conspiracy/algorithm/technique, whatever you wanna call it, that is influecing sports betting in a secret way.
When gathering tips on how to this algorithm works would you rather hear from the guy who is a professional at sports betting or the guy who hasnt won a bet in 6 years??

I would assume that any objective mind would trust the first one,
Why do you think someone that has always been losing knows the algorithm so well?


If any of you care to check out TheWaddy, The Waddy7 on Sharkscope, Sky will show you I have a rating of 72.

You wonÂ’t find many players with a much better rating.

This has been achieved playing poker in a completely wrong manner to combat the decks horrendous performance. I donÂ’t believe I could make a profit playing in the manner I do, with a real deck.

I only now play low stakes, as I donÂ’t trust the decks.

Although my results for Full Tilt playing proper stakes have seemed to have disappeared off Sharkscope, you will see the revolving silver star still remains next to my name.

That is not earned lightly.

People, consider why these highly aggro contributors in favour of how sites have evolved into farce over the years, accuse us of being idiots. My results, which are there for all to see, prove otherwise.

Donjonnie has repeatedly said I have my opinions because IÂ’m a big losing player. ItÂ’s written in stone on Sharkscope that IÂ’m not.

Slugant repeatedly says JohnMir is a big losing player at micro levels and has lied about those.

JohnMir, like me just plays very small to monitor the situation. Why on earth would we play bigger as in previous years, when there is now a deep mistrust in the deck? Why canÂ’t Slugant get that fact?

JohnMir has a different approach where his micro play is simply for info purposes and to gather stats. Myself, IÂ’m monitoring too whilst winning some holiday spends, but will never give up on getting a clear banner on sites that explain the decks are for entertainment only and will not act within maths of a real deck.

I feel that individuals could be mentally damaged or in cases, lose enough to consider suicide, whilst sites are insisting that they are simply being unluckyÂ… and to keep playing correct poker for odds to even out Â… which I know they never will. Quite disgusting in this day and age of so called customer protection.

Tune in 3 pages on where Slugant will still be saying JohnMir canÂ’t beat micro stakes (heÂ’s not trying to and explained it many times) and asking me for proof which canÂ’t be proven. Tune in where DonJonnie will still be calling me a big loser.

Ask yourselves why these individuals stick around mindlessly repeating themselves and belittling, whilst using lies.

Up to the readers (if there are any others!) to who they put their trust in.


You are opted out on sharkscope so we cant see a lot but we do see an rating of 72, thats true
Its not particularly high thouhg, not sure why you think that? Every decent sng/mtt pro is way higher often in the 90's.
We can see an average stake of €1.52, which is microstakes but at least you are not lying about it.

Do you see any problem that the man you see as the truth preacher in this whole discussion is a man that plays €0.43 average stake but keeps on lying that he plays $100 mtt's??

Dont you think its at least a bit strange, dubious or suspect that he makes up these lies?

You were the one that came up with the logic "sites lie about everything, they break rules, they dont protect the customer.. so why wont the rig the rng"

Why dont you ever think

"johnmir lies about his whole poker adventure, claiming he plays big mtt's but its been shown he plays very low micros... so what else is he lying about"

And will you for once in your lifetime understand I NEVER asked you for "proof which cant be proven"

You have claimed you played hands which contained 4 outer avalanches and same players winning each <20%. Those are your words.
Im simply asking to see those hands.
If you cant show them there is only one possible reason for it... those hands didnt happen
If they did, show them and people wont have to repeat themselves 😉

And for the sentences

"Ask yourselves why these individuals stick around mindlessly repeating themselves and belittling, whilst using lies.

Up to the readers (if there are any others!) to who they put their trust in."

I am sure you are talking about Johnmir right? Because he is the one caught lying.
But you keep on trusting him.

He claims to be well respected on other forums where majority agrees with him. Its been clearly proven he isnt and he keeps on lying about this too.
But you keep on trusting him.

He makes a stream to prove his point, the thing goes horribly wrong and actually proves that he knows nothing about the algorithm and so he cowardly deletes the stream and acts like it all went fine.
And still you keep trusting him.

How can you trust a man who behaves this way? Even if you want to believe them. I honestly dont understand this.
You cant talk those wrongs right, Johnmir himself even cant, thats why he refuses to answer anything close to this subject and just repeats his old stuff.
But then of course the old re-hash repeat is just fine with you.

Its OK if you want to believe the rng is rigged but dont display such immense double standards and expect no rebuttle.


by Slugant

Why do you only "think" about it now and not during your 6 year (or even longer) period of losing at the micros.
Havent you realized before that is an absolute vital part of your analysis?

Man, watch at my graph, please!


(https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...)

What I do here, if not winning the first 3K tournaments. Man? ))

3K! SnGs. And only after 3K SnGs I get a downfall.

by Slugant

So 6+ years of -25bb/100 at 10nl and losing at 0.43 avg stake is more acceptable than actually winning?

Lol! Slugant, how old are you, man?

What for would I play micros, if I aimed to earn money 😀) Micros?? 0.1$-0.5$ limit? Single table!!

by Slugant

Yet you spent 100% of that time losing and 0% proving how to play on sites and actually win. Therefore your only motivation seems to be making up stuff so you dont have to live with the fact that you suck at poker.

Man, we all know we can win online, lol. The question is - how much!

There are "a lot of people", who win online.

by Slugant

If your bio is "outdated", update it. Why continue with your lies???
If some asks you your age. Do you think its honest to say you are 12 years old because you once were???

Okay, I will change it now.


by Slugant

Do you see any problem that the man you see as the truth preacher in this whole discussion is a man that plays €0.43 average stake but keeps on lying that he plays $100 mtt's??

This is just my BIO.
Who ever said, that I need to put “retired badge” in my profile?
I played 100$ MTT tournaments in 2019. I played 100$ SnGs in 2014. Why do I need to change this?

I don’t play 0.5$ limits poker. It’s not interesting for me. And I proved, that this game is not even a poker game.

by Slugant

johnmir lies about his whole poker adventure

What?
Man, I didn’t only correct my BIO.

My words on Gipsy Team on the first pages –

"Speaking about me, personally, I haven't played offline [almost], I haven't got results there. I have got not too big results in online, but not more then that, because I left to finance [sphere], because I understood, that the software was limiting my profitability in case I play MTT on a single table. Useless to try."

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

Lol, I say totally different stuff.

And after this you ****ing say – “Johnmir lied about his WHOLE poker adventure”.

Lmfao. You keep lying about me in a crazy possible way, it’s just amazing. Though, you are allowed to do anything, if you defend the scam. So, go ahead!

by Slugant

He claims to be well respected on other forums where majority agrees with him. Its been clearly proven he isnt and he keeps on lying about this too.

Wow. Seriously. Could you, please, provide my message where I say this. So everyone would see you are fair.

by Slugant

He makes a stream to prove his point, the thing goes horribly wrong and actually proves that he knows nothing about the algorithm and so he cowardly deletes the stream and acts like it all went fine.

I explained many times, why I deleted it.
If I deleted this cause of mispredicting, I would have also deleted streams for GipsyTeam forum. Because I miss there right in the start of the stream. I miss twice in a row there. First two moves.

More than that. I published all the hands of that stream. I admitted it was "awful". Rofl, do you understand the difference between this forum and youtube?

If I admit I missed in predicting, what the **** for do you need that stream? I openly said, that I missed. Didn't manage to predict the hand, and didn't manage to find more games of this limit.

I have already answered this. What for are you repeating the same question?

Man, you have already lied about my messages crazy number of times. Lol!

And you tried to do it again!

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

by TheWaddy

Ask yourselves why these individuals stick around mindlessly repeating themselves and belittling, whilst using lies.

Up to the readers (if there are any others!) to who they put their trust in.

TheWaddy, it's fun. Did you see that part, where they started trying to disprove positive comments about me, which were made by forum members on another poker forum?

I think at the moment the situation is simply obvious. It's really obvious, what is going on in this thread.

Yes, totally agree with you, guys will assess the information, it's their right, for sure. I just mean, it's a pure circus ))

In fact, I think guys are just trying to "hide" all this information with huge conversations.


by Johnmir

DJ!Thank you ))But regarding the poker home work.Am I right that you have never checked efficiency of your bluffs in your life?Man, if you didn't it's strange to discuss the situation. Since you haven't ever worked on your gameplay properly. As an amateur - may be. But not as a guy, who earn money playing poker. That's for sure. Because these guys do bluff man. And they do bluf

yeah that was what i expected and what I get for trying to talk sense to a crazy person.

John since you have proven again that your arrogance and unfounded believe that you are a strong poker player blind you to all constructive criticism.

You focus on extremely useless stats and have literally no idea what you are talking about yet you dont take other people who have succeeded at a much higher level what you have so desperately tried for years at the very lowest level.

I have been beating poker especially husng for a long long time. You have never.

So good luck with calculating ICM in a spin and go. which is a ****ing winner takes all unless a very high price is rolled you ****ing dunce.

I will leave you too your insane spreadsheets and low level approach to poker.

Since there is no getting through your thick skull i will just go back to mocking you.


Bit harsh.


Fair enough.

Let me rephrase I cant be bothered trying to help somebody who so clearly prefers to just keep his delusions in place to protect his fragile ego.

Waddy I find it hard to believe that you are winning player when you dont get why it is not surprising at all that you lose against a dude in Omaha h/l head up when every time you get him all in you have 80% equity.

Either you are lying about that number or it is very obvious why you lose.


by Johnmir

Man, watch at my graph, please!

I did, and its not great to look at.
Your peak was $40 but after that it all went downhill.
How you can think this is the graph of an expert player is beyond me.

by Johnmir

Okay, I will change it now.

All you need to do to make Johnmir set one lie right is repeat it 20 times. What a gentleman.

by Johnmir

Who ever said, that I need to put “retired badge” in my profile?
I played 100$ MTT tournaments in 2019. I played 100$ SnGs in 2014. Why do I need to change this?

Because in case you havent noticed, 2014 is 11 years ago.
Nobody said you should put retired there but claiming $100 sng's are part of your normal games while your average stake is 0.43 is blatantly lying to everyone.
As a person who thinks he uncovers hidden truths how do you not see this?
You want to be trusted by the public and gaming boards yet without any hesitation lie about yourself, this creates a problem. And that you cant grasp that makes me think you are not very stable in your head. Well, that and everything else.

by Johnmir

My words on Gipsy Team on the first pages –

"Speaking about me, personally, I haven't played offline [almost], I haven't got results there. I have got not too big results in online, but not more then that, because I left to finance [sphere], because I understood, that the software was limiting my profitability in case I play MTT on a single table. Useless to try."

Another lie
Here is his thread for all to read: https://forum.gipsyteam.ru/index.php?vie...

Literally his opening is "Dear colleagues, Hello!
I am an expert poker player"

Maybe you want to correct his too to avoid being a liar??? You dont have say retired but you could say something that sounds very similar.

by Johnmir

if you defend the scam

I am not defending you at all!! In fact, im calling you out on all your bullshit lies.
You dont like that of course but where I can actually quote stuff you just link post after post. Just quote 1 lie Johnny, I have quoted 10+ of yours, it cant be that hard.

by Johnmir

If I admit I missed in predicting, what the **** for do you need that stream? I openly said, that I missed. Didn't manage to predict the hand, and didn't manage to find more games of this limit.
I have already answered this. What for are you repeating the same question?

Because you keep lying and claiming you only got 1 wrong.
While in fact you got everything wrong.
You can prove me wrong though, just re-upload the stream and let everybody else see.
If you dont, you must have a very sketchy reason as to why you keep it hidden (again)

by Johnmir

Man, we all know we can win online, lol. The question is - how much!

Everyone except you I guess.
But please show us in your investigation that when you comply with the sites hidden rules suddenly you get professional results.
Because thats the only reason why I and others are pro's right?? Not because of skill and hard work but because of complying with hidden rules...

So you should start doing that as well to finally make some progress in your investigation. And with a pro poker player salary you can live quite a good life in Putin's glorious Russia 😉


DJ... Man.

This reaction is more than expected if you have no arguments.

I don't even doubt that you beat HU&SnGs online, since the game is not random. Same as that guy on 500$ Spin&Go "beating" others, by hitting 1.35% trips on the flop, after the limp on A5o in the start of the game.

In fact, I have played guys on Pokerstars, who just play HUs by check-calling 80% of their hands. Against any opponent (you can come to a table to watch, how he plays vs other opponents). And he also beats heads-ups.

Man, I don't see a problem here. It's good that you win.

But don't pretend to be considered as a good poker (!) player then.

by donjonnie

John since you have proven again that your arrogance and unfounded believe that you are a strong poker player blind you to all constructive criticism.

It's simply irrational to say this, when you just fall off the discussion, and go to some personal comments. At the moment YOU look like a guy, who is blind to constructive criticism. More then that, I didn't even critiсize you (!!!), I criticized another player. You go personal, and try to claim "blind to all your constructive criticism"? Wow! You forgot to mention some arguments in your speach.

You just thrown some "possible factors" to take into account. Didn't provide ANY ratio/value. While I provided many. You seem to be a pro... Man.

by donjonnie

You focus on extremely useless stats

Mate, I didn't know you play heads-ups. But if you play it, you don't even check your bluffing BB/per hand?

You kidding me, mate. It sounds more like a joke. What else could be more important on heads-ups (!!!). Lmao, you don't even know if you bluff corrently. Against which opponents??

by donjonnie

I have been beating poker especially husng for a long long time. You have never.

Wow, ofcourse you know it... Haha.

Yes, I have never beat HU sngs, that is why I discuss it so often.

They key question - if you beat heads-up SnGs. How is it possible -

1. I provide concrete numbers. You - don't
2. I check my bluffs. You - don't
3. I suggest to play irrespectively to my hand strenght. You suggest to play according to your hand (lol??)

3BB raise vs a small blind limp!! on QQ! In the start of the game. "Let me win you from the first hand, if you are a pure idiot to call my monster hand for 3BB" - this is what 80% of opponents would read through this 3BB raise. And you go to defend it. While Phil Hellmuth limps AA on a small blind vs Tom Dwan!

by donjonnie

i will just go back to mocking you.

Man, at the moment, even players with the lowest poker experience, would argue your are mocking me!

This is some crazy talk of a guy, who win, but simply can't defend his position. More then that, you go for some useless try to defend a decision, which (the move of that guy) is simply bad. And this is also not too wise.

Guys, look.
I never argue, about something, I know is wrong. That is why it looks, like I often "disagree".
If you go to defend every stupid decision, to misprove any possible statement. It will often appear, that you can't defend it, lol.

The question - what for do you need to argue with EVERY statement of your opponent.

Lol, what to argue, and what not to argue - is a separate and an important process in the dialog. But, yes, you need to think better for this then. It's much easier to argue with EVERY point. But, as a result, you can see, how people (like DJ here) lose their control! 😮


by Slugant

Another lie
Here is his thread for all to read: https://forum.gipsyteam.ru/index.php?vie...

Literally his opening is "Dear colleagues, Hello!
I am an expert poker player"

Man, do you know Russian?

"Я являюсь игроком в покер экспертного уровня".

If you don't know Russian, why did you delete "I am an expert level poker player". Because it's totally different.

At the same time, you say, that I "lie about my whole poker adventure", while I admit - "I didn't manage to reach significant results in gaming"?

Okay, nevermind. You will just say "You lie" - who cares if it's true, haha! Ok, why not!

More than that, for you "gaming level" and "the results" are the same.

But, obviously it's not like that, in case the game is rigged.

So, I feel totally free to consider myself as a high level player, if I reasonably think so, even though I have no results in a rigged game. It's my right, and I stay on this. My opinion about myself can't be considered as lying in any way. You, obviously, don't see the difference between an "opinion" and a "lie". I literally (!!) say - this is my opinion!! My assessment of my own gaming level.

Man, if I get 7 of 7 pots having nothing with perfect bet sizes and feeling of the moment to join the postflop... I'm kinda better then average online-"pro", who plays according to his handie. Yes, I think so. It doesn't mean, that I can claim, I'm better than you, because I don't know you!! But, if I watch some comprehensive distance of your gaming, yes, I will probably (!) change my opinion. And even then!! I doubt, I would go for something like "I'm better than you", because it's very "subjective" and should be tested in a fair gaming vs each other.

by Slugant

You dont have say retired but you could say something that sounds very similar.

Man, I'm an expert level poker player. What is the problem with that phrase? )))

More than that, I do see, how "well" online poker players do play. And won't correct that phrase, because it will be more like a joke, comparing to a current level of online-"pros". When you, guys, start to play poker, we will discuss my phrase once again. No problem.

Playing 4+ tables for 30% ROI and calling this a professional level of poker gaming... Guys, just play and win. But... What kind of level are you talking about, if you CHOSE yourself to play "primitive" poker to maximize your income in online gaming.

by Slugant

Not because of skill and hard work but because of complying with hidden rules...

Slugant, I don't see this.

I don't see, what you do to improve your game!

You just play as much as you can, this is not working on your gameplay. And this will only work in a rigged game. That is why it works. Obviously. How else would you win, while you don't work on your gaming properly??

by Slugant

And with a pro poker player salary you can live quite a good life in Putin's glorious Russia 😉

Man, I actually earn pretty much per hour being a tennis coach ))

I work with people, always positive tranings, fresh air. Always stay in shape. No kidding, if we compare this to online poker - it's just a totally different life. That is why, i'm more positive/polite - yes, it's one of reasons. You guys, don't look too positive inside. What for would you (not you personally, but many others too) go for insulting online, with no resposibility for your words. It's a pure unsatisfaction with your life. Too much negative emotions inside. If you are happy, you will never pay attention to some shitty stuff!


by Johnmir

If you don't know Russian, why did you delete "I am an expert level poker player". Because it's totally different.

At the same time, you say, that I "lie about my whole poker adventure", while I admit - "I didn't manage to reach significant results in gaming"?

Of course I dont speak Putins language.. I use google translate on english
And this is what I see, I didnt delete anything. I dont have too, unlike a certain someone that needs to delete his livestream 😉


The word level is nowhere to be found here.

Furthermore If you agree you didnt reach significant results in poker, why do you claim to be expert level?
Who are the expert level tennis players in your eyes?? Nadal, Federer & Djokovic??
Or the lunatic at the local tennis ground losing every game.
Yes, results, achievements and skill level are heavily intertwined.
I know you want to think this is not the case but of course it is.
Which footballer has the highest skill level... obv the 50 year old Russian who never won anything... he has way more skill than Messi!!

by Johnmir

So, I feel totally free to consider myself as a high level player, if I reasonably think so, even though I have no results in a rigged game. It's my right, and I stay on this. My opinion about myself can't be considered as lying in any way. You, obviously, don't see the difference between an "opinion" and a "lie". I literally (!!) say - this is my opinion!! My assessment of my

If you honestly think you are high level dont get mad when people without brain damage think you are batshit insane. They have the right to that opinion just like you do. Dont cry and ask for a ban you fruit.
There are literally hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, of people with a better poker brain than you. If you are high level what are they... out of this universe

by Johnmir

Man, I'm an expert level poker player. What is the problem with that phrase? )))

The part where you say "expert level poker player"

by Johnmir

I don't see, what you do to improve your game!

You just play as much as you can, this is not working on your gameplay. And this will only work in a rigged game. That is why it works. Obviously. How else would you win, while you don't work on your gaming properly??

People do work on their game, and not just by playing as much as one can... How do you come up with this stuff.
Did you ever heard of solvers, trackers, coaching programmes etc etc
In your mind all they do is tell a player to play as much as possible???
Improving your game is done off the table.
The fact that you have trouble understanding how to improve is extremely telling

by Johnmir

Playing 4+ tables for 30% ROI and calling this a professional level of poker gaming... Guys, just play and win. But... What kind of level are you talking about, if you CHOSE yourself to play "primitive" poker to maximize your income in online gaming.

Show this in your investigation, you have 0% about this. You just claim it, no backing.
Yeah sure, the only reason you lose is because you 1table.
And sure, you are of very high level.

Than what about this shoe-in success for you Johnny.
You can play 4 tables (guaranteed to win) and I play just the 1.
But on that 1 table we play 1knl HU.
You would have the software algorithm totally on your side while I as 1tabler am completely screwed. And even more you are an expert level player!!!!
If what you are claiming is true I would have zero chance of winning... And you take me down for at leat 10k...
If you truly believe in your claims You would absolutely no reason to deny this bet.
So when shall we start?


by Slugant

Of course I dont speak Putins language..

Man, it is cool that you don't do something, just because someone else does it )) Great motivation!
What about ruling your own life, irrespectively to others decisions.

by Slugant

I use google translate on englishAnd this is what I see, I didnt delete anything. I dont have too, unlike a certain someone that needs to delete his livestream 😉The word level is nowhere to be found here.

Yes, it's comfortable. I also tried to auto-translate via Google Chrome. And the word "level" disappeared.

Still, it's there - "Я являюсь игроком в покер экспертного уровня"

The word "уровень" means - "level".

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If it's so important for you.

by Slugant

Furthermore If you agree you didnt reach significant results in poker, why do you claim to be expert level?

Because it's possible to miss results, but to be at a high level at the same time. It happens in real life.

by Slugant

Who are the expert level tennis players in your eyes?? Nadal, Federer & Djokovic??

I know players, who do play extremely well, I would say, top 20 in the world. But they never played in ATP.

by Slugant

If you honestly think you are high level dont get mad when people without brain damage think you are batshit insane. They have the right to that opinion just like you do. Dont cry and ask for a ban you fruit.

Could you, please, provide my comments, when I ask for a ban for calling me a bad poker player?

by Slugant

People do work on their game, and not just by playing as much as one can... How do you come up with this stuff.
Did you ever heard of solvers, trackers, coaching programmes etc etc

Really? Intersting...

Why didn't anyone (including DonJ) answer me, what does solver suggest to do against a limp on a small blind.

I mentioned/asked about the solvers assessment of this hand several times!

by Johnmir

Man, just interesting what does solver recommend here... ))

by Johnmir

It's very interesting, what will solver say, if you use this?!

by Johnmir

But it's intersting if your opinion is based on solver's number.

Slugant. Why the hell, when I work on my gaming, I immidiately show screen-shots of my calculations/hands. And you (guys) can't even provide a ****ing number from solver. If you do work in it. I start to doubt - you do really use solvers. You just "say that you use it".

by Johnmir

Improving your game is done off the table.

I'm surprised that you admit that. Because in this case, it becomes obvious according to our chat (! I don't know what you do at home, I read and make conclusions!), that I worked on my gaming much more then any of you.

by Johnmir

The fact that you have trouble understanding how to improve is extremely telling

Slugant... Man.

According to this chat -

I do know assessments of push EV on a push-fold and got a self-developed push-fold calculator

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I can assess my current ICM share without calculator, because I have already calculated it thousands of times by my own calculator (I got that mathematical "feeling", what my current ICM share is at the moment, and should I push or call and all-in on a current stage of a tournament)

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I can analyze my game play, totally. From A to Z.


I always checked my bluffing efficiency -

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And I do bluff almost perfectly -

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by Johnmir

(I show every single pot where I didn't get a pair/draw. Yes, I won each of the first 7 such pots)The hand history - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Jx2g1fx...Tournament #4 in the .rar file4 players inThe same hand, ending. One player left in game4 players inNext hand - preflopCheck-check on the turn, and the endingWe are 4 on the flop

At the moment. After reading this chat, only pure idiot would say, I don't know how to progress in poker.

At the same time, we do know the game is rigged.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...

And the fact, that Probability forum team ignored it, the same as Curacao and iPoker's support, perfectly confirms it -

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/25/pr...

by Johnmir

But on that 1 table we play 1knl HU.
So when shall we start?

Man, at the moment, I wouldn't play anything serious, even offline. I'm concentrated on another sphere of my life.
Nor, for sure, online. You suggest me to play some short-term competition, while the results can significantly miss EV expectations. I know this very well after playing Pokerstars... Where I lost 20 of 21 all-ins on a buble. Sorry, this suggestion doesn't sound interesting!

And this is my try to play 10$ heads-ups on Partypoker -


And after this you suggest me to play 1K HU online? LOL!

I might spend 10K for no reason! Even if I play this in a brilliant manner ))


Settle down, Johnmir.

We're all just waiting for you to show that you are an expert level player. It's frustrating that you show us that you can lose games, but you never show that you can win a series of games with your knowledge, gleaned from years of study. Please give the guys that question your self-designated description of your play a break, and show us all your results over the next hundred games with your "winner" hat on.

Really looking forward to see them.


by Mike Haven

Settle down, Johnmir.We're all just waiting for you to show that you are an expert level player. It's frustrating that you show us that you can lose games, but you never show that you can win a series of games with your knowledge, gleaned from years of study. Please give the guys that question your self-designated description of your play a break, and show us all your results o

I took this idea, Mike. I would just turn some 5$/10$ limit SnGs on. And play, yes, around 100 games. At least 100.

I need some time for this 😀

Slugant, it's interesting that you say this -

by Slugant

He claims to be well respected on other forums where majority agrees with him. Its been clearly proven he isnt and he keeps on lying about this too.
But you keep on trusting him.

I didn't say this. But, at the same time, this is a reaction of players towards my long message, where I explain the situation on Gipsy Team forum and explain my level of gaming, what I do know about the game -


You don't actually understand what is going on there on Gipsy. Many guys disagree with me, for sure. But I wouldn't say "noone supports my ideas". In fact at least 7-10 people openly confirmed significance of my statements. I just don't see a need to show it here. We discuss this here on 2+2, I don't see a need to mix this.

Even if Gipsy Team member supported me - so what? I doesn't mean anyone should agree with me here. It's everyone's personal choice if he should take into account the info.


Even the Moderator can not get his head around the fact JohnMir has no trust in online poker, no interest in playing anything other than correct poker, which we are saying wonÂ’t work with skewed online decks.

They then say to JohnMir play 100 online games and show us how good a poker player you are!

What are you not getting to ask such a thing???!

JohnMir, man don’t let them bully you into doing that, they are as bad as the sites getting fined for encouraging vulnerable players.

Face facts that many good players, some famous pros and some who previously were the face of online poker sites, no longer play online poker.

I suspect the reason is the same as mine, you would be very stupid to play stakes of any significance if you donÂ’t trust the decks.

Of course you guys think these players, like me, became bad overnight. If you check Sharkscope, I have a rotating silver star on FullTilt. Played there for years, had a few thousand stuck in my account when it got suspended. Was also a staked player on there.

Then Jokerstars bought it and hey guess what? Barely did better than breaking even. I became bad overnight. If you believe that can happen to thousands of good players at the same time, you are deluded.


by TheWaddy

Some of what JonMir says goes completely over my head. Some of it is my experience to a tee.

TheWaddy. In fact, when I realized, that software does react to decisions of players. That in case your go all-in on Ax hand, and the next Ax hand should be folded, because the software expects you to push once again. I was really shocked by this. I couldn't believe that.

I mean, I can understand your feelings. When I realized how they deal hands, I felt myself like a fool - I played 20 years a totally different game, lol!

And I wouldn't bring this stuff here and to Gambling Supervision Authorities of 10 countries, if I didn't check that thousands of times. If I wasn't simply sure, it works like that. According to both numbers and experiments.

I would love that guys manage to understand, what I described and tested this in real games. So, people would confirm, that, yes, the software works like that.

Starting from this moment, we would just come to some other stage of understanding, that the rooms completely rule the gaming process.

by TheWaddy

JohnMir, man don’t let them bully you into doing that, they are as bad as the sites getting fined for encouraging vulnerable players.

😀 Guys wanna see, that I will "adobt" to gaming, since I know, that I shouldn't play "unacceptable" poker, so that, the software will allow me to win.

I could do that. If I manage to find a good moment (according to a real life routine), I will probablity go for this then.

by TheWaddy

Face facts that many good players, some famous pros and some who previously were the face of online poker sites, no longer play online poker.

I suspect the reason is the same as mine, you would be very stupid to play stakes of any significance if you donÂ’t trust the decks.

I don't like, that these guys, who got the name in poker world, still keep silence about the fraud. It's not any nice. Asocial behavior in my opinion.

by TheWaddy

Of course you guys think these players, like me, became bad overnight. If you check Sharkscope, I have a rotating silver star on FullTilt. Played there for years, had a few thousand stuck in my account when it got suspended. Was also a staked player on there.

Great job!

I also played Full Tilt, successfully. The funny stuff is that right after I joined it, I won a pretty big MTT (2nd place on 11$ limit) - a typical stuff for a new account 😃

by TheWaddy

Then Jokerstars bought it and hey guess what? Barely did better than breaking even. I became bad overnight. If you believe that can happen to thousands of good players at the same time, you are deluded.

Pokerstars are just strictly controlling a bankroll growth speed. Once you make +100$, you just stop winning any all-ins on a bubles/the final tables of tournaments 🍰


by Johnmir

If it's so important for you.

The word level actually isnt important to me, you said I deleted it and I just showed you it wasnt there in english translation.
Unlike you, I dont feel the need to delete stuff 😉
I make no distinction to being a professional and being on professional level, they are synonyms. If you are miles away from being a pro you arent on a pro level, simple as that.

by Johnmir

Because it's possible to miss results, but to be at a high level at the same time. It happens in real life.

Not every pro (level) player wins every month, thats just variance
But no pro (level) player ever has gone 6 years losing at the micros with zero to show for lifetime as well.
You dont miss results for 20 years Johnny.
Maybe i am the highest skill level tennis players for 20 years running even though I never won a match 🙂

by Johnmir

I know players, who do play extremely well, I would say, top 20 in the world. But they never played in ATP.

Your terrible judgement seems to outgrow poker, well done

by Johnmir

Could you, please, provide my comments, when I ask for a ban for calling me a bad poker player?

Now what i said, i said "dont get mad when people without brain damage think you are batshit insane"
Just like on the gypsy forum you are being called a mental patient
Why do you insist on misquoting?

by Johnmir

I worked on my gaming much more then any of you.

You must be eager to play me HU then? When can we start?

by Johnmir

I do know assessments of push EV on a push-fold and got a self-developed push-fold calculator

Where did it say to openshove 55 for 75bb into aces and then delete the stream?

by Johnmir

I can assess my current ICM share without calculator

No need, we have sharkscope
And its not looking so great for you :p

by Johnmir

At the moment. After reading this chat, only pure idiot would say, I don't know how to progress in poker.

Again no need, we can track your progress on sharkscope and other mined sites
Its looking even worse now :p

by Johnmir

And after this you suggest me to play 1K HU online? LOL!

I might spend 10K for no reason! Even if I play this in a brilliant manner ))

Here you are contradicting your entire claim
The level of play wont be a factor Johnny
You are 4tabling while I play 1 table
According to you the software wont let me win even if I play high level
While you get the upside from the rigging and have worked more on your game than me
You would never spend 10k, it would be free money
The software and the algorithm dictates that..... if you believed your own stories were true that is

But even you dont

by Johnmir

I would love that guys manage to understand, what I described and tested this in real games. So, people would confirm, that, yes, the software works like that.

You could confirm it by playing me HU and I give you every advantage you claim the algorithm gives to certain players, while I get every downside.
If you managed to understand that you will play me and take all my money

The software works like that right? Maybe for once put your money/ego where your mouth is.
I am willing to play in the circumstances you claim would get punished by the sites hidden rules and rigged rng, while you can play in the style that has all the benefits.
How come you are still scared to do so?

You speak a lot but have shown 0% confidence in that you actually think what you are saying is true.


Again… yet again… JohnMir writes for 3000 pages that online poker is rigged and is trying to prove it… he feels he is not winning due to decks running against maths…. the result?

Slugant once again challenges him to play him in heads up online poker games to somehow make a point.

The Moderator asks similar.

Is anybody getting the irony? Apparently not.

Wow.

It’s bit like being chatted up by a gay man and you saying to him I’m sorry I’m straight. Then the reply being so when are we going out?


by TheWaddy

The same people, the same belittling comments.

Says someone whose "belittling comments" actually got edited by a mod, lol.

by TheWaddy

Arguing with those who are benefiting financially from this very loose version of poker (and indeed have no interest in poker in how it should be played) will get you nowhere.

You think the guy who has spent months, if not years, trying to prove he's losing at micro stakes because the RNG isn't random and sets him up to lose, has "interest in poker in how it should be played," and I don't?

Because it seems to me like Johnmir got on a short hot streak nearly 20 years ago (when the game was a lot easier), and now he isn't winning regularly, and so it must be that the game is rigged, not that he by his own admission hasn't worked on his game in a decade and from what few hands we have seen him post doesn't seem to understand many basic poker concepts.

You... I don't know why you can't win or why you find it easier to tell yourself the game is all rigged than to work on your game.

But I notice that the people who keep complaining that the game must be rigged are losers at micro stakes and/or refuse to disclose any of their actual attempts to play like a winning player, post about strategy, post hand histories, ask for hand history reviews, etc. They just complain the game must be rigged against them, because they know they're good and deserve to win, even though they apparently never work on their game and pointedly refuse to share any unedited attempts of them trying to play their best.

Probably because if they did, they might find out they're not as good as they think they are.

But hey-- we've got the MTT strategy forum right over there if either you or Johnmir wants to start posting actual strategy questions or hand histories for review or anything like that. I'm there pretty regularly to answer questions! Johnmir might actually be a winning player now if he had put as much effort into improving his game as he did into "proving" that micro-stakes online are rigged against him specifically.


by TheWaddy

Again… yet again… JohnMir writes for 3000 pages that online poker is rigged and is trying to prove it… he feels he is not winning due to decks running against maths…. the result?Slugant once again challenges him to play him in heads up online poker games to somehow make a point. The Moderator asks similar. Is anybody getting the irony? Apparently not.Wow.It’s bit like being cha

It's more like asking a schizophrenic to try going a week without wearing his tinfoil hat everywhere and see what happens. And the schizophrenic refusing because that's just what they want him to do, maaaaaaan.


by TheWaddy

Again… yet again… JohnMir writes for 3000 pages that online poker is rigged and is trying to prove it… he feels he is not winning due to decks running against maths…. the result?

Slugant once again challenges him to play him in heads up online poker games to somehow make a point.

Yet you totally missed the point

The whole center story of John's claims is that
*When you play a certain way the sites like you will win, no matter what skill level (pros are not good but playing the algorithm, multiple tables etc
*When you dont comply with these rules you will lose, even though you play terrible

He is not losing because of decks running against maths. He "knows" the deck is against him because he doesnt comply, while others have favored decks because they do.

I am willing to play John, to give him money after so many tough years and to further this investigation which has gone dry while he is not even half way done.

I am willing to play exactly the way the software doesnt like and let him play exactly the way software does like. In his arguments this will favour the rng so strongly to his side that skill level isnt important anymore.
Because in his words he plays excellently but because he doesnt comply with sites rules he loses, yet I who play worse can make a living off it.

Do you not see in the irony in a guy who is losing each year (and had a $13 bankroll on his deleted stream) claims to have 100% proof and belief in his description of the algorithm but wont take this free-money bet.
He knows the algoritm whereas I dont!
You actually have more belief in Johnmir's claims than he himself does.
Then again, thats easy because he shown 0%.

Its not a question of not having faith in the decks. The decks are heavily skewed favourly towards the guy complying with the sites rules.
He can be that guy and take loads of free money from me, someone he clearly doesnt like.
Now why would he refuse time and time again?
(answer: because even he knows that even when he complies with all the rules he made up he still wont win, because he is simply terrible at poker)

Its like meeting someone whose most important thing in the world is showing how the rng is being affected.
And then you asked him to demonstrate while in the process giving him a shitload of money.
And he declines time and time again.

Because he is a liar and deep down he knows it.

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