Deep stacked multiway big pot. Unsure about turn bet sizing.

I think the main thing you want to avoid is getting to the river with a small amount behind.

You could go all in.

You could also put the shorter stack all in and then button has a lot less incentive to bluff should a scare card come on the river.

I prefer option 2 because button might find some more calls with worse.

I just want to start by saying I hate these descriptions of how solid or how much respect someone has for another player. There's only 1 thing that matters; what is their range? Right off the bat someone cold calling a 3bet without closing the action is indicative of someone with a very wide range. It's a fundamentally bad play since UTG could always reopen the action. That said at this point we're just getting it allin. V would have jammed flop with a set and I doubt he's calling QTs preflop so just rip it in on the turn, well played. Lets imagine for a second the flop came K82ss, well now you might want to bet something like $100 just to see what they all do, then try again if the turn was like K829. We need to find out where we're at so inducing a raise is the best solution. Most players will just happily call down with TP-.

V1 range has alot of Ax, some fd, some nutted hands like AA/KK/66.
V3, if he really respect your plays, then he's folding every Ax to you on this kind of flop. He only continues with fd, 66, A6s. I think he has more alot of combo draws like 6xss, TJss, QTss, QJss. As for why he's not shoving flop because he believes your range never folds to a raise/shove if he does give you that much respect.

I probably check/shove turn.
By shoving immediately, we get 0 value from V1 if he had AQ/AT, he might even fold a random fd on turn. When he's only got 500 left, pot is already 960, he's shipping all his Ax, some fd etc.
Once V1 ships, the action back to V3, he's in a tougher spot because you can jam on top if he just calls. Even if V3 just jam on top, I don't think we can fold with the top of our range.
If V1 just checks, V3 might stab or check back.

The other route is bet like 200 and pray V1 ships, then v3 either call/ship/fold.
If they both call.
River is a blank we shove.
River is a 6 or J or spades, we check/fold vs V3.

More info on V3: I have only played with him a few times, but the last time I set next to him, he told he had been coaching another player who is a reg. I asked him what he thought about pros in the cardroom and he pointed out 1 guy that he thought was possibly making $75 an hr at our $5/$5 and he said most of the other pros are making much less. He offered to coach me. I told him I had leaks I could address on my own before I get any coaching. I told him I was averaging about $50 an hr and he said that was close to his win rate. So he presents himself as a solid player, but I don't think he is necessarily crushing the game, and my play experience with him is limited.

When he cold called $120 preflop, I was surprised because cold-calling a 3-bet should be very rare for a solid player. Maybe AQs+, AK, JJ, QQ?
When he calls my flop bet, I am thinking combo draw, AQ, AK? Though AK probably raises the flop.

Grunch:

PRE - I wonder if we could get away with sizing up slightly here, when splashy V2 calls the EP open. Seems like he's unlikely to be in a folding mood, and we wouldn't mind having this HU and IP with him.

What is V3 doing cold-calling your 3B? Would he ever sandbag something big here, hoping V1 4B's you, so he can put in an obnoxious back-raise 5B? Or is this a normal compressed cold-call range?

FLOP - Again, I wonder if we couldn't size up here, just a smidge. If $160 gets two callers, could we have made it $200?

And again, what does V3 have that wants to flat call, next to act, on this board? Do we need to be concerned he's flatting AA/KK pre, rather than 4B'ing on the BTN?

TURN - Yeesh. What an ugly card.

I dunno man. My gut says our opponents are going to have at least as much AJ or KJ as sets or straights, but V3 has me somewhat concerned. I might check for pot control, or bet somewhat small, like $400, to target all worse 2P and 1P + draw combos.

If you bet small and get raised, it'll be pretty gross, but it's hard to find enough natural bluffs to be very worried. The obvious candidates are going to be QXss combos, but few opponents are going to turn KQ or QJ into a bluff here, and it's hard to imagine V3 is cold-calling pre with worse QXs than QJ.

I recently re-listened to an old Bart Hanson podcast with that guy Nate as the guest host. The topic was pre-flop cold-calling ranges.

Nate made the case that a lot of live players' cold-calling ranges isn't really "collapsed" and weak, but rather is condensed into a narrow range of 2nd-tier value - PP's from 99 to JJ, some slivers of QQ or 88/77, some suited aces, some of the better off-suit aces, some suited Broadway combos, etc.

The reads here seem pretty important, to the extent V3 may cold-call rather than 4B to keep V2 in the hand. I wonder if he's flat-calling as wide as QTs, or as tight as QQ/JJ, and if he ever just flats with AA/KK.

It's hard to think V3 gets to the turn with TT or worse, or that he's going to continue flat-calling with worse than KJ if we barrel.

How can his range be super strong pre then expand to combo draws post?

When he calls our flop bet he usually AK or AQ. Hes folding AQ so jam and try to get him off the chop. Then show him and ask him if he wants coaching.

Cbet larger to $200-$225.

Is there a reason why you cbet so small on the flop? Just curious about your thought process.

i dont see how ranging him on that would lead u to jam lol

i dont think its particularly results oriented. i think jamming is a reasonably large ev loss play (compared to a smaller size) and you got fairly direct evidence of that from results

I've been told that in multiway pots you bet small on the flop, like 1/3 pot.

Maybe he folds AK?

doubt

agree

OP you should be very insulted that this guy who has a similar win rate thinks he’s so much better than you that he can coach you to get closer to his skill level.

Then he cold calls with AJ.

If my math is right and everyone still calls, if you make it $150 preflop and go half-pot instead of third-pot on the flop, you'd have a turn pot of $1500 with $1450 behind and an easy turn shove.

You obviously have no idea at the start of the hand that it's going to go down this way, but one question I've been asking myself lately at the table is "does this hand want to go bigger or smaller given my opponents' ranges?" and I slightly add to or subtract from my initial thought to bet from there.

I like that thought process. I'll add to it that I'm often asking myself if my opponents are likely to continue with too wide a range when I bet / raise, even if I go slightly larger, or if they're more likely to start tightening up.

I wasn't suggesting larger raise size pre or larger bet on the flop as a way to play a two-street game and set up a turn jam. I was mostly just thinking about getting more value for our hand on earlier streets. Being able to jam turn for less than pot is a nice side-benefit.

Feels like a spot to size big, like $800–$1000. You’re trying to protect your hand vs the draws and thin value from V1/V3. Multiway, you can’t be too shy on the turn.

To be fair to you, if our read is that V3 is solid, we have to be concerned if he calls a turn barrel of almost any size. And if we're concerned, does that lead us to checking river after barreling turn for a smaller size, and possibly folding if he decides to turn some worse SDV into a bluff?

It's a multi-way pot. All sorts of weird things can happen due to the butterfly effect. Hard to say what the optimal line is going to be when you have a wild card like V1 involved. Easy to level ourselves into thinking V3 is deviating in some way we need to worry about.

I'm not sure V3 would have called a smaller bet with AJ or KJ. He should know his 2P is no good when you barrel after getting two calls on the flop.

Yeah, I am not all impressed by him making that preflop call.

In fairness, he offered to coach me the first time we played at the same table, and before I had told him much about my play.

Not always.

I agree with Smoola’s suggested sizing. I like 225 myself.

The thing is that this is a board and preflop action where you have a massive range and nut advantage. So when you size down, you are essentially giving draws good odds to crack a huge hand—you’re not giving bad hands odds to improve to 2nd-best and you’re not enticing anyone to raise with worse. You are just offering implied odds to draws and making it cheaper to bluff catch. If your opponents are very bad I’d even size up more.

i think given v1 and 2, his call pre is probably winning small tbh