We always mucking QQ in this spot???

I muck QQ.

KK is an interesting question because I don't know what we're supposed to do 3 ways OOP with these different stack sizes. I guess I flat and play poker but then I don't know if we're get it in if V1 raises. I guess the pro move is to go with it and make sure we flop top set on a dry board.

Ya I'd fold QQ

If v2 is competent, he's likely not ****ing around 4 betting an UTG open and MP 3bet from two tight players, both of which are uncapped.

It's a sigh fold, and keep it to yourself.

Folding depends on how aware/untilted V2 is given your description of him as LAG who gets in 3bet wars regularly and likely folded the best hand in a recent one. So is V2 computing that you as a TAG have RFId from utg and are 3bet by a TAG (who you also call aggro, somewhat contradictorily)? In theory V2 should be folding AK perhaps. In reality, even if not titled he may auto-4bet AK/AQs/TT-JJ; if titled he's likely going wider.

I don't hate a fold but given the game-flow and player profiles, which aren't fully complete, I don't hate a 5bet in the $300-330 range. I mean we're 230bb ef with V! and 400bb ef with V2. So if we 5bet and V1 shoves and V2 calls, it's a fold; if we 5bet, V1 folds (unlikely to call) and V2 shoves for $1200 then we fold, too. (If we 5bet and V1 shoves and V2 folds it's probably a fold, too, no matter how terrible that feels, given we'd only need just under 30% but it's KK+ all day.)

We also find ourselves in a scenario where we 5bet, V1 folds and V2 calls, with a SPR of around 1.5, holding QQ and a relatively insignificant range advantage, where it's possible to either fold or reach showdown on Axx flops (because players rarely bluff in 4bet/5bet pots due to narrow ranges and low SPR --- V2 isn't likely to turn TT-JJ into a bluff, for instance, or even bet KK for value).

Most will just fold because they've only put in $15, and, yeah, too complicated/stressful/room for error to think through the above, which is fair enough.

I mean, I'm always mucking QQ here but I have a feeling this game plays vastly different than my casino 1/3 NL game (the fact that 3 people are $1200 deep is proof of this alone).

Guseless2centsG

With stack depth here I think you can 5bet/fold. V1 is going to fold everything except KK+ in all likelihood, then if V2 calls you may be in reasonable shape (albeit OOP) but you can fold to a jam. Probably going smallish.

There's no harm in folding of course with so little invested in a dangerous spot. Much lower variance and probably not much lower EV (if at all)

That's a tough one, especially since you opened small, but fold is probably best.

If you think V2 4bets JJ and AQs, then 5bet to 300 and fold to a raise. Without a good read, folding is fine.

I’m always 5betting KK, but we don’t need to talk on this thread whether to fold kings preflop.

Imagine folding QQ in a splashy home game 1200 deep. Of course call, jesus.

If the raises were from loose/splashy players, I'd agree. However, these two are "the better players at this place." Granted, V2 is a LAG, but still a good LAG, and V1 is described as tight and only 3betting AK+. He has only $700, so he's probably shipping. I don't want to call $125 (or raise) and have V1 ship it.

Great so they have more hands to play, even more reason to continue. You’ll react to what V2 does when it’s his turn.

never folding in this game to that player as described. 5bet to 300 > call > fold

Grunch:

Your small-for-this-game open size may have induced V1 to think you're weaker than you are, which might lead him to 3B a little lighter than he otherwise would if you opened for whatever size is normal in this game.

It's also possible for V2 to see this, and thus he might 4B light. I'd think this becomes more likely when there's some reg meta-game happening between our two opponents.

If V1 is 3B'ing you light, then V2's 4B really only has to get through you to be profitable, assuming V1 isn't looking to play for stacks with his hand. Like, if you fold, and V1 jams for $700, V2 can obviously fold when he's only got $125 in the pot. But if you and V1 both fold, V2's light 4B is printing.

If I got here this way, against these V's, and I was confident in my reads on both of them, and of the situation, I could see 5B'ing to $275, with a plan to fold if either V jams. Even though we'd be getting 2.6 to 1 on a call if V1 jams, I think we could fold at that point, because we're crushed by a TAG 6B-jamming range.

If V1 folds and V2 jams, I wouldn't like it, but I'd probably still fold. If he's 6B-jamming AX or JJ, or worse, God bless him.

If the 4B came from the TAG player, it would be easier for me to fold now. When it comes from a LAG, it's harder.

Not much changes when we have KK. Yes, our hand is better, but we block half the AK combos our opponents can have. If someone jams over our 5B, it's pretty gross to think about folding.

I'd still 5B with KK, and still probably fold to a 6B jam from either player. I'd just expect to get jammed on less frequently, and see more flops.

I'd think we'd be in this position less often if we just opened to a normal size, and had a table image that wasn't so nitty that everyone folds whenever we open.

I can tell you that statistically they are only going to have AA once every 25 times you get dealt KK. I would shove with KK and if they have AA so be it. So many times I shove KK and they either fold or when they call they hardly ever have AA. Usually it’s JJ QQ or AK.