What is fair? Does anyone have any experience with this: home games getting robbed?
So I have been thinking about this more than I would like and I know what they guy that runs the home game i play in would say, and I know what i think is fair, but I just wanted to ask:
1. What do you all think is fair? If a home game is robbed: say I buyin for $1k and the host (who rakes the game and generally doesn't play while I am there) has like $20k on him and the game is robbed. Do you think the host is responsible for paying me back my $1k or do you think that it should be my loss?
2. I have played in games that have been robbed, but I've never been there when it happens. I won't get into the details, but I am curious, if you have been there or know what happened to the funds? Did the host make it right or were the players out the $$ that they used to buyin?
FWIW, sad as it is, I think that if I have cash on me and its taken, its probably my loss. But if I entrusted cash to the host and have chips, he should make that cash right.
What does everyone think?
19 Replies
I think you should stick to games where you don't even have to think of this as a potential scenario.
And if we're doing hypotheticals, what would happen if another player does something stupid while getting robbed and you end up getting shot? Should the host pay for your hospital bills or something to your family as recompence for your death? Or is the player who pulled a gun on them responsible instead? And what if he's dead?
I would not expect to get my money back
But if the home game is being run as a for-profit endeavor , and the loss is less than the yearly profit of the game , ethically I think it would be right for the host to cover the losses.
An underground game that I used to play in a few years ago in Maine was robbed on a night that I was not there. I believe the host, who was not there himself at that time of night, may have given some money to each of the players who was robbed.
However the host clearly has no legal or moral obligation to make players whole.
Do you actually think that a casino will make you whole if you're robbed in inside of its doors?
These responses are lol. Do you people have any idea what private games rake? Of course the host pays everybody out. Who needs legal or moral obligations when you have a golden goose?
I kinda feel like the host doesn't have a moral obligation to pay you back, because joining the game means accepting a certain risk.
But I don't think it's obvious. The way I view it, it depends on what you opt into when joining the private game. Since there is no formal contract, this is not defined. If you think it's their job to keep you safe, then there is a moral obligation. If you feel like you opt into the risk by being there (my reading), then no.
Do you actually think that a casino will make you whole if you're robbed in inside of its doors
Interesting question. But like, if you're in the casino, you're not breaking a law, so you could also just have insurance against robbery, and those would pay. Whereas if you're at a private place, I would imagine insurance would refuse since it's illegal.
I've asked Claude (the LLM) and it said
Licensed Casinos:
Most legitimate casinos have some form of security insurance and may compensate patrons for losses during robberies, but this isn't guaranteed or legally required. The compensation often depends on:
- The casino's specific policies
- Whether their security measures were adequate
- The circumstances of the robbery
- Potential liability issues
Many casinos will offer some compensation as a goodwill gesture to maintain their reputation, even if not legally obligated.
An underground game that I used to play in a few years ago in Maine was robbed on a night that I was not there. I believe the host, who was not there himself at that time of night, may have given some money to each of the players who was robbed. However the host clearly has no legal or moral obligation to make players whole.Do you actually think that a casino will make you who
Certainly no legal obligation, the game itself is not strictly speaking, on the up and up...
As for the casino, IDK you may have legal recourse depending on the situation. And if someone stole casino chips off of you, in the casino, I could see the casino making it right.
I kinda feel like the host doesn't have a moral obligation to pay you back, because joining the game means accepting a certain risk.But I don't think it's obvious. The way I view it, it depends on what you opt into when joining the private game. Since there is no formal contract, this is not defined. If you think it's their job to keep you safe, then there is a moral obligation
Yes, I agree that it is not clear. I am trying to distinguish between my cash and the cash once I've bought in with it. This host has, for example, gone out joy riding in a golf cart with the whole pot in his pocket.
From my perspective, what is on me is my responsibility, but if I buy in the host owes me what I have in chips at the end of the night, robbery or no...
Not really a strategy question but 2+2 is not busy any longer so I'm going to let it slide.
The best strategy is to play in a licensed room, with security available.
Failing that, you're on your own. If you are in a store and someone steals your wallet or purse, would you expect the store to make you whole?
Not really a strategy question but 2+2 is not busy any longer so I'm going to let it slide.
The best strategy is to play in a licensed room, with security available.
Failing that, you're on your own. If you are in a store and someone steals your wallet or purse, would you expect the store to make you whole?
Thanks, it is not really strategy, but I figured this was the spot for live poker too, no?
Anyway, no I wouldn't, that is what I am saying: the cash that I have on me is one thing. But if I buy in, the pot gets robbed, then at the end of the night I have chips in front of me -- I think the host still owes me for the value of the chips...
I am trying to distinguish btw cash on my person and cash that has been given to the host for a buyin. While I am still concerned about the cash that I have on my person, I agree that that should be my responsibility. What I am trying to flush out is who is responsible for the pot if we are robbed. I say the host...
I can't argue about how you feel. Also, I'm not a lawyer. However, it is my understanding that there is no legal recourse to recover money lost in the course of an illegal activity. Therefore, I wouldn't expect them to do it. Of course, you'd probably consider never playing in that game again, but that's the best you can do.
Do you actually think that a casino will make you whole if you're robbed in inside of its doors
I think a lot of players at a casino would assume the casino will make them whole if someone steals money off the table etc.
AIUI that's basically 100% untrue, though they will work with police to give security camera evidence (slowly). Heard stories of people grabbing player's bags while they were away from the table, and the casino worked with police. Heard a few stories of people picking up someone else's chips from a poker table and the casino mostly just shrugged.
Saying that, having the same ethics as a casino isn't exactly a high bar to hide behind.
One of the risks of a home game vs. a casino is being robbed, or at least there's a higher chance it will happen. If *I* was running a home and trying to do so as an income stream, I would eat the loss and make people whole if possible. But if I was playing at a home game that got robbed, I wouldn't expect the host to make me whole although I'd be appreciative if they did.
Ask the host. Seriously. Find out what the room policy is. I'm pretty sure my host would pay us, but I've never asked. Someone would be insane to rob us, though, because they'd get shot before they got in the door. However, I'll ask on Thursday and get back to you.
I would not expect the host to cover what's on my person.
FWIW, I'm the only woman who plays in this game, and I'm one of the few not packing -- maybe the only one? I feel completely safe, though.
An old game I used to play in was robbed, but I don't know what the host did -- I wasn't there that night. They knew who did it, but couldn't exactly go to the police 😉
A friend of mine was beaten up and robbed inside a casino walking to the hotel side, and he didn't get anything back from the casino, as I would expect. The same guy won $60, 000 in a home game, but the dude he won from never paid the host, and the host never paid him. Sick. That seems like theft to me. I'd never play there again.
Ask the host. Seriously. Find out what the room policy is. I'm pretty sure my host would pay us, but I've never asked. Someone would be insane to rob us, though, because they'd get shot before they got in the door. However, I'll ask on Thursday and get back to you.I would not expect the host to cover what's on my person.FWIW, I'm the only woman who plays in this game, and I'm o
Yeah, wow, from what I am familiar with... the host owes that money and should pay the winner regardless. That is the risk of running a game, taking rake, and extending credit IMO.
An underground game that I used to play in a few years ago in Maine was robbed on a night that I was not there. I believe the host, who was not there himself at that time of night, may have given some money to each of the players who was robbed. However the host clearly has no legal or moral obligation to make players whole.Do you actually think that a casino will make you who
To clarify, I think the host should reimburse everyone for the value of their chips, but not necessarily for any other cash, jewelry, etc on their persons.
To clarify, I think the host should reimburse everyone for the value of their chips, but not necessarily for any other cash, jewelry, etc on their persons.
Whether it’s in chips or in pocket isn’t really the operative distinction. It’s more important for the square players to get every dollar back than it is for anybody with any kind of deal to get reimbursed for any profit they had on the table.
If you have to worry about getting robbed you probably shouldn't be there. I quit home games a long time ago and don't miss the drunken buffoonery, arguments, fights, etc. Pro Tip: never keep all of your bankroll in one place. Hide some in the upholstery of the car or couch, have a money belt or ankle pouch but give them something like $5-600 so they don't get pissed and shoot you.
It’s more important for the square players to get every dollar back than it is for anybody with any kind of deal to get reimbursed for any profit they had on the table.
Huh?
