Villain folded a flush to me, where did I mess up?
1/3 10 handed
All asian home game, plays like 2/5
Loose splashy game.
V1 ~ lag, had some histories with hero but hero was the aggressor each time, he goes into bluff catching mode vs me often. One of the few that knows how to play there. Opens super wide with small bets. Bet sizes will tell you hand strength. He has caught me bluffing a few times(he's the only possible bluffing candidate at the table lol).
v2 ~ huge megawhale unseen in other places.
v3 - nit, only non asian there.
v4 - female passive player.
Effective stacks is around 1000 vs v1 only. We cover the table.
v2 limps in +2, Hero iso to 25 with A♥8♥ in MP. V4 calls in co. V1 calls in sb. V3 calls in bb. V2 calls.
5 way Pot 125
Flop 2♥3♥9♣
Checks to Hero, we bet 50
All call.
Pot 375
Turn 7♥
Checks to Hero, we bet 100
V1 calls
V2 allin for less for like 50.
Rest folds.
Main pot 525 Side pot 100.
River J♠
V1 checks
We bet 350.
V1 tank fold.
He said he folded a flush lower than 10 later on. He said I betted too much on river????
In game I felt he was strong on turn but he didn't raise.
Turn bet in retrospect maybe was too small
12 Replies
Well if that's what he said, it must be true. People don't lie at the poker table.
Should be betting more on the turn and setting up the river shove.
The only logic I can see in his comment is he thought you had an overpair you probably would bet small on the river.
It's a pretty crazy fold by him (if true) the main takeaway is he has you pegged as a nit.
This but unironically; people in fact lie surprisingly little at the poker table. A lot of deception, not much lying. If someone makes a direct statement about their hand, it's proabbly true. The more specific, the more likely it is to be true. "I folded a T high flush" is quite likely to be true imho.
I like the Turn bet, I think betting when you hit the nuts is good (a lot of people check), and betting small is also good. I think this is the line that most disguises your hand. People could do this with an overpair without a heart.
I think the main reason the River bet looks so strong is that V2 is all-in. This cuts down dramatically on your bluffs (since you can only win 100 by bluffing, most people just don't have a bluffing range in that spot) and it cuts down on value bets as well. I mean actually you can value bet any hand that just beats V1 so maybe it shouldn't, but I think the way it is perceived is more like, you gotta be stronger than both, even if that's not technically true. So V1 may think that you don't value bet an overpair here, and there aren't that many 2 pair, so it's like set or flush...
But idk if you should really bet smaller here, I feel like almost every player would call you with a weaker flush. I think WPNdonk's "the main takeaway is he has you pegged as a nit" is a good take.
Turn sizing is really bad.
On the river, you are betting into an almost dry side pot, so it is unlikely you are bluffing. Not sure betting smaller is better though.
Preflop is sort of standard, but I would just fold preflop in mid position. You are not just dealing with the limper, but the players to act. This is one of the worst suited aces.
You're not wrong but folding suited Aces pre might be a good way to not get an invite back to juicy homegames, gonna lead to a pretty low vpip.
When ther is a dry or small side pot there is little incentive to bluff, meaning you should go smaller for value.
This but unironically; people in fact lie surprisingly little at the poker table. A lot of deception, not much lying. If someone makes a direct statement about their hand, it's proabbly true. The more specific, the more likely it is to be true. "I folded a T high flush" is quite likely to be true imho.
I agree with this, nice point. Remember how Moneymaker turned all stumbly mumbly lying to Farha that he had QQ after the big bluff?
I couldn’t find the clip but I’m sure you’re right. MM did get all garbled in the exchange though.
One thing I thought of last night reviewing the oral history, Chris had to have been tempted to show the bluff, mad as he was at Sammy for being such a douche over the chop offer. Good thing he didn’t as he won on the next hand.
Fold pre in a home game lmao. Some of you guys.
I can only assume "iso" is meant as "raise" or perhaps "we attempt to isolate", cuz obviously isolating is rarely a thing at LLSNL, especially from this position at loose tables (as our 5way result shows). Depending on where exactly we were I'd lean to folding or just overlimping. This deep there is an argument for a small pot juicing raise, but 8x ain't that. ETA: Admittedly not taking into consideration invite-back reasoning into my play here.
Even though we have good equity I'm not even sure I'd cbet this eleventeen ways as our FE overall should be ~0%. Although with everyone calling there is an argument to be made it was a value bet (so long as we get to realize our equity, much like in a Limit game).
One of the biggest reasons to raise preflop is to put stacks in play if we hit. And yet we totally prevent that thanks to our small turn bet. I'd bet much larger on the turn to put stacks in play.
Awkward river now that the pot is protected by the all-in and we shouldn't ever be bluffing here. With this in mind I think we're forced to bet smaller to eke out a crying call.
GIdislikeoursizingeverywhereG
You answered your own question.
I think villain calls a bigger turn bet and then might feel committed on the river. As played, maybe a smaller river bet, but this is not a bad line. Maybe he simply respects your big bets.
You say his hand strength is a telegraph. If he bets big with big hands, it’s only natural that he thinks you do too.
