66 pre VS hand revealing 4bb open
Posting while playing so briefly- some $1.08 MTT on GG, already in the money, 200 of 3000 left, Im with poor 13bb on BB, avg stack is 35bb. Folded to BTN who has 60bb and opens 4bb which - if you’re playing higher stakes - in lower stakes mean “I have a big pair and im afraid of A high flop, please don’t call me, shoves only” so basically I know im fvcked, should I jam anyway? And kindly don’t put him on a range here, he has a mid/big pair 100%. Thank you
12 Replies
You keep asking for advice in this forum while rejecting any thoughts from others on your underlying assumptions. Do you just want to hear that your crazy fold was right?
If you are absolutely sure he has pairs above 77 only, then go ahead and fold. But if your logic is that they're doing this because “I have a big pair and im afraid of A high flop, please don’t call me, shoves only”, why wouldn't they do the same with AK-AJ "worried they would miss the board, please don't call me, shoves only"? Or A2o "worried you call with 87s, please don't call me, shoves only"?
I think you are overconfident in your ability to read opponents correctly when you are narrowing them to such narrow ranges preflop. 66 are a jam bb v bt 13bb effective, and it's not close.
After consideration I’d rather jam A2s+ A5o+, that gives me at least one card above his obvious pair
You keep asking for advice in this forum while rejecting any thoughts from others on your underlying assumptions. Do you just want to hear that your crazy fold was rightIf you are absolutely sure he has pairs above 77 only, then go ahead and fold. But if your logic is that they're doing this because "I have a big pair and im afraid of A high flop, please don't call me, shoves o
I just saw your post. I jammed and he had KK. In my hand from FT couple days ago where I jammed TT, villan had AA as expected. Listen, I suck at ranges, I’m back after 15 years or so, but I’m good at recognizing hand/betsize/position patterns
I’m a jam over fold guy. 100% hands I post here I lost while I knew I’m behind before clicking buttons. Fair enough? Sometimes I wonder if disregarding my reads is really the best way to play, and then I come here and moan
I’m a jam over fold guy. 100% hands I post here I lost while I knew I’m behind before clicking buttons. Fair enough? Sometimes I wonder if disregarding my reads is really the best way to play, and then I come here and moan
Just be careful not to believe your reads 100% and give some consideration to others challenging your assumptions. Don't assume that when they turn over KK here, or AA in that TT hand, that is the one and only hand they can ever have there. It can really stall your progress as a poker player to stick to your gut reads only and to overanalyze only the moments that are painful rather than reviewing your overall play.
Starting out your post saying "basically I know im fvcked, should I jam anyway? And kindly don’t put him on a range here, he has a mid/big pair 100%" just sounds like you are not really asking for advice, because you know under those assumptions it is always a fold of course. It's only a jam if your assumptions are wrong, and people will point that out.
Shove is awful. Villain isn't folding, and 44 is almost never more than a little ahead. He has you dominated often. Could have 77 also. Doesn't matter than it often is AK/AQ or much weaker high cards. You need to learn to fold decent hands preflop.
You keep asking for advice in this forum while rejecting any thoughts from others on your underlying assumptions. Do you just want to hear that your crazy fold was rightIf you are absolutely sure he has pairs above 77 only, then go ahead and fold. But if your logic is that they're doing this because "I have a big pair and im afraid of A high flop, please don't call me, shoves o
I think your advice is generally sound-- and is absolutely vital if OP wants to improve and move up-- but I also think that at these micro stakes, bet sizing tells preflop are pretty frequent. It won't be that easy at higher stakes, but at the micros, yeah, players do all sorts of terrible exploitative stuff with their ranges and bet sizes.
That said, there isn't much strategy to posts that amount to "Should I have gone with my read that proved to be correct?" Yeah, you're the one in the game, go with your read.
It's an easy fold without strong reads to a 4x open. What he said about 4x opens at low stakes is legitimate, even though it isn't always a pp.
Shove is awful. Villain isn't folding, and 44 is almost never more than a little ahead. He has you dominated often. Could have 77 also. Doesn't matter than it often is AK/AQ or much weaker high cards. You need to learn to fold decent hands preflop.
“You need to learn to fold decent hands preflop.” - that’s exactly where I am now. Yesterday I ICM folded AQo on FT 6 handed to a min raise from a largest stack cause there were 3 other players with stacks oscillating around 1-2bb. Donk-playing hole cards pre is what kept me behind, the best way to lose consistently is believing that you have to play every good hand. Remember that fold is also a play, sometimes better than any other
In these spots you have to trust your reads. If you fold here and he laughs and shows you 87s then modify your reads on this guy.
But here with a 4 bb open on the BTN your read that he has a PP is pretty on target for most people. My instincts here are it is likely JJ then some TT/QQ and a smaller bit of AK. Sometimes people play AK this way but it is rare. That he had KK is extremely unusual but closer to how many play JJ than say AK would be.
Just as a funny story I was playing in Rivers casino in a like $500 tournament if I remember correctly. I opened KK at 3x UTG and it folded to the BB who jammed with over 125 bb's. I also had over 125 bb's. I tanked and thought it was conceivable he had AK and didn't want to play OOP if he 3 bet like 6x. But that really made little sense to me so after a bit I open folded my KK. BB laughed and showed me his AA.
Another crazyish hand happened at FW in a small tournament (like $200). It folded to the SB and he jammed for like 80 blinds. We weren't in the money yet and I had over 100 blinds so I just didn't want to call even with AK because I believed it was a PP like JJ/QQ/TT and I wasn't getting the right price (lol). As I looked down I said out loud "I guess I need AA to call" and my first card was an A so I looked at my 2nd card which gave everyone the clue that my first one was an A and then my 2nd card was also an A. So I called. He had jammed with ATs. Lolol. I would absolutely have folded JJ almost definitely with QQ (because my thinking is while he could have AK it is more likely a big PP) and I would have tanked with KK. Again...
In these spots you have to trust your reads. If you fold here and he laughs and shows you 87s then modify your reads on this guy.But here with a 4 bb open on the BTN your read that he has a PP is pretty on target for most people. My instincts here are it is likely JJ then some TT/QQ and a smaller bit of AK. Sometimes people play AK this way but it is rare. That he had KK is
Thanks for them stories. I subconsciously recall them in similar scenarios while playing. gl
