I've dealt poker for over twenty years: AMA
I loved music but had no musical talent so I spent a few decades doing various jobs in the music biz. (Sure, ask me abou
this sounds far from ideal
the main thing i've seen with all the elderly i've dealt with in my life (not calling you that fyi) is that they always assume best case scenario of their health holding up and living forever
I roomed with someone at the last poker series I dealt. Dude is in his mid'70s and is a great poker dealer and he does more stuff that involves activities than people half his age.
It is not difficult to deal cards proficiently even at that age. There are a ton of traveling dealers who do this who are considerably older than I am and none of them would be working the events they do if they were doddering geriatric people who couldn't hack it.
getting a cancer diagnosis or something of that sort should not be unexpected and i can't possibly imagine going through that while living out of an rv
I imagine there are life situations that will mess up plans even if those plans include living in an actual house. I can have many things mess up my plans, but so do you even without a job that involves lots of travel.
it sounds like you have a good career and work hard taking extra time to deal on your time off (i never knew about your other job just knew you dealt) so i imagine you're earning enough to comfortably put away plenty into retirement - surely this must be more about current spending than anything else
I am putting into a work 401(k) and an IRA as much as I can and still have money to live. But I can only do that for another 8-10 years and since I started saving late, that won't be enough to live off of by itself. So either I plan for that or I kill myself when I can no longer afford to eat. I like my idea better.
i'm sure if you broke down and reviewed all your spending over the last year - you'd find certain things that you could easily go without or could easily switch to a generic brand or cheap er alternative which add to low 5 figures
Sure I could.
What are some of the poker tells that you’ve picked up over the years would you say?
I am usually too busy doing my job to pay much attention to these things.
I will say that most people who try and talk while an opponent is making a decision they forced upon them usually were better off quietly staring at the felt.
What do I think of dealers who do their job and expect compensation for it? I feel that anyone who does a job should be properly compensated.
That should be the salary. Obviously, what I'm getting at is they can't have it both ways, if the cards are good, get tipped and if they are bad, it has nothing to do with them. The fact that they accept tips means they aren't being objective and can't say ridiculously "oh, I have nothing to do with the cards!". Ok, simple then, don't accept tips.
That should be the salary. Obviously, what I'm getting at is they can't have it both ways, if the cards are good, get tipped and if they are bad, it has nothing to do with them. The fact that they accept tips means they aren't being objective and can't say ridiculously "oh, I have nothing to do with the cards!". Ok, simple then, don't accept tips.
He accepts tips because hes working, end of story
Dealing you aces or 3-8o isnt in his job description
As far as the floor manager, the casino, and the dealer, and everybody else in the room: you getting dealt 38 offsuit is... Your ****ing problem.
If he put your chips in the felt, dealt the card, and pushed the right amount of chips towards the winner of the hand.... he dealt the hand correctly, thats all, and furthermore he has no control over the cards he deals other than the mystic whatever. And thats what you want anyway otherwise you'd complain that the game is rigged
The reason people chose to have the winner tip is pretty obvious, and tip is a willful non-obligatory thing...
I really have no idea what youre mad about
Hes just part of the fantastic four; the waitress, the hotel clerk, the food delivery guy, and the poker dealer
For some reason that I dont know, society decided that these jobs were jobs to receive tips.
Its entitled for him to expect you to tip him, it is not entitled for him to expect to be tipped in general
Im not sure but I think its in Japan, Japanese workers looks down on the act of tipping them, and they're gonna be like no no no sir please dont do that, keep your money
That is to say, its a highly subjective subject, im just going with the flow
To be real, there's poker dealers, I gave them huge tips and they shut the **** up, and then later I tipped him 1$ and the same dealer was like oh thank you Manastar, its a pleasure to be your dealer..
What can I possibly say against that, hes pretty cool
Most likely he has been tipped so many times, he probably cares more about the way and energy exchange behind your tip him than anything else
nn
i'm not trying to get too preachy - but in nearly every instance i've ever seen of "i don't save enough so i'm going to live x,y,z retirement" always ends disastrously because like you are doing, you're looking at best case results - you're looking at the guys who stayed fit and healthy and for whom it worked out because for those that it didn't work out - well you never see nor hear from them despite that there are far more of them
classic case of survivorship bias
fact is you're making terrible life choices and just hoping everything works out and what's going to happen in 25 years is you'll be putting up a gofundme in order to survive
you very clearly make enough money - so spending is the issue here
you have plenty of time to put away for retirement
He accepts tips because hes working, end of storyDealing you aces or 3-8o isnt in his job descriptionAs far as the floor manager, the casino, and the dealer, and everybody else in the room: you getting dealt 38 offsuit is... Your ****ing problem.If he put your chips in the felt, dealt the card, and pushed the right amount of chips towards the winner of the hand.... he dealt the
What you described are basic dealer job functions, there is nothing that suggests what they do is above and beyond their duties.
I'm not mad, I just think it's silly because obviously the tipper usually tips because they won the hand, and that's cuz they like what the dealer dealt. I'm just being totally logical cuz there's a flipside ppl just plainly don't wish to acknowledge. Like I said, can't have your cake and eat it too...but actually they can, cuz if you lose a big hand, you can't exactly take some money back from their tip box haha.
As for your last paragraph, dealers definitely expect you to tip - and to be tipped in general - and if you don't tip, they act all pissy about it in varying degrees, but you can feel the vibe change for sure.
What you described are basic dealer job functions, there is nothing that suggests what they do is above and beyond their duties.I'm not mad, I just think it's silly because obviously the tipper usually tips because they won the hand, and that's cuz they like what the dealer dealt. I'm just being totally logical cuz there's a flipside ppl just plainly don't wish to acknowledge.
No, listen to me again softly.
It is entitled for the dealer to expect -you- to tip. It is self-loving for the dealer to expect to be tipped in a job where tip is the social norm.
It is possible for a dealer to expect you to tip, but tht makes him entitled, that makes him indirectly force and -claim- a tip, which is supposed to be a gratuitous offering from the player, the which he is supposed to feel thankful for, which most of them are.
I am sure that they are dealers that are entitled, that does not make it okay.
As for the tip from the winner debate is kind of a non sequitur. You are already free to tip because you lost a hand, that is something you can do, and he will take it I promise you. Like wtf? sounds like your logic is no logic at all, I suggest that you explore your emotions of jealousy and/or insecurity and/or lack of abundance.
No, listen to me again softly.It is entitled for the dealer to expect -you- to tip. It is self-loving for the dealer to expect to be tipped in a job where tip is the social norm.It is possible for a dealer to expect you to tip, but tht makes him entitled, that makes him indirectly force and -claim- a tip, which is supposed to be a gratuitous offering from the player, the which
Maybe you're projecting regarding your last sentence? I'm not jealous at all for dealers, it's a hard job with poor advancement prospects. I'd rather they move on and find better jobs with more fulfillment tbh.
Anyway, I'm the one being logical here. No idea about your entitlement angle, ofc they're expecting to be tipped, I never argued otherwise. I'm just arguing the flawed premise behind that. That being said, of course I usually tip, that's the norm unfortunately. I just don't tip sometimes for certain dealers that screw me and then they turn around and give me that bad vibe "why didn't this dude tip me...where is my $X???" as obviously they don't remember or care they screwed me before. Players always remember dealers, but dealers don't remember players as much.
That should be the salary. Obviously, what I'm getting at is they can't have it both ways, if the cards are good, get tipped and if they are bad, it has nothing to do with them. The fact that they accept tips means they aren't being objective and can't say ridiculously "oh, I have nothing to do with the cards!". Ok, simple then, don't accept tips.
Casinos do not pay dealers a living wage and the social contract in this country is such that many jobs, including poker dealers, make the bulk of their income from tips.
Until that changes, tip the people who are supposed to be tipped, or do not engage in activities where there is an expectation to tip, so don't eat at any restaurants other than fast food, don't go to a bar at all, don't have valet park your car, don't order food delivery, don't get a haircut, don't let a bellhop take your bags for you, don't take taxis or other ride sharing, and don't play poker in a casino.
I would rather make a livable wage and not live off tips but no casino seems to agree with this and if I tried to make some noble stand, I would simply be unemployed.
Similarly, if you think that you can engage in those activities and not tip because of some idea that you're above the fray and that you can help make a difference to change things to this non-tipped utopia, you are mistaken. You're just a cheapskate who doesn't tip.
nni'm not trying to get too preachy - but in nearly every instance i've ever seen of "i don't save enough so i'm going to live x,y,z retirement" always ends disastrously because like you are doing, you're looking at best case results - you're looking at the guys who stayed fit and healthy and for whom it worked out because for those that it didn't work out - well you never see
Was there a question there?
Casinos do not pay dealers a living wage and the social contract in this country is such that many jobs, including poker dealers, make the bulk of their income from tips.Until that changes, tip the people who are supposed to be tipped, or do not engage in activities where there is an expectation to tip, so don't eat at any restaurants other than fast food, don't go to a bar at
Naw, I'm no cheapskate at all...where did I say I don't tip at all? I just don't tip bad dealers but like I said I don't get the "logic" behind tipping poker dealers because they say that they have no influence on the cards. The tipping society/mentality needs to end, and it's getting ridiculous, for example, with waiters expecting 30% tips nowadays, even programming them into the machines. I'll continue to only tip dealers who are good to me and don't screw me up. Also, it's ridiculous to expect a tip when players only win like a $3 pot, yet some dealers actually think they deserve that. Same for dealers who screwed me out of a $300 pot and then I win the next one for $40 and they think they should get a gratuity? Nope, that's a chump move but many players don't care and think it's normal. Glad tipping is optional, so I opt to not do so if they don't deserve it.
I know your idea is to deal fast, but do you get excited about a hand when there is lot of action involved or a known name involved?
I said "if you think..." which is not accusational, nor does "you" have to mean you personally.
I just don't tip bad dealers but like I said I don't get the "logic" behind tipping poker dealers because they say that they have no influence on the cards.
This is remarkably dumb.
I know your idea is to deal fast, but do you get excited about a hand when there is lot of action involved or a known name involved?
I have no problem with hands that are drawn out and involve tanking. A drawn out hand can give me a moment to relax and can sometimes be welcome but even if not, players in my experience do not tank away entire downs. Sometimes players think I am rushing them and I tell them they can take as long as they need, me going fast doesn't mean they need to.
Sometimes I find it exciting to watch good players play and make moves that pay off for them (or make moves that do not!) and I have dealt to some poker celebs - at the tournament series I regularly deal, I once dealt to a WSOP main event champion and WSOP main event runner up (different years) at the same table and that was pretty cool although I had been dealing like 15 hours at that point so I desperately didn't want to make any mistakes!
But my main casino is a commuter room with a local clientele so that doesn't come into play for the most part.
When all's said and done--what's your hourly earnings?
Suppose a player wanted to tip you a flat rate at the beginning of your down, rather than with each won pot. What amount would you consider to be fair? Would that arrangement offend you?
I don't keep track of this at this point. The first few years I obsessively calculated this but I lost the spreadsheet when my PC died and didn't care enough to start a new one. Generally including whatever hourly stipend I received, I was in the $35 an hour range which I think is what most dealers make once they get good at it. This included tournament downs but I am not including the tournament series I deal twice a year which is exclusively tournament tokes and a small hourly.
I checked the last one I dealt. I dealt 103.09 hours in eleven days. I made $4,491.99 which comes to $43.57 an hour but I got 23 hours of overtime which skewed the total a bit. I do not know how that compares to dealers at other big tournament series' because it's the only one I do.
Suppose a player wanted to tip you a flat rate at the beginning of your down, rather than with each won pot. What amount would you consider to be fair? Would that arrangement offend you?
Funny, someone I dealt to once actually did that. I sat down and he tossed me a redbird and said "no more." And that was all he gave me.
If every player gave me a redbird for a down and nothing else, I could live with that. If only one player does it that's cool too, but I hope he doesn't get hit with the deck. 😀
How many different poker games are you proficient in?
When dealing a tournament series, how often do you change tables, get breaks, and get sent home early while ending tables still playing?
Tell us something interesting. A good story you remember from the table.
Craziest or most memorable hands you've dealt? Biggest pot?
Congrats on your successful career of service and assets saved and acquired.
I can deal Hold 'Em, Omaha (FL or PL), Omaha H/L (FL and PL), Stud, Stud-8, Razz, Pineapple, Crazy Pineapple. I played Triple Draw and can probably deal it with a primer. I never dealt short deck or Badugi or any of the other strange games I see in Alan Kessler's Facebook page but I am a quick study!
When dealing a tournament series, how often do you change tables, get breaks, and get sent home early while ending tables still playing?
It depends is viewed as a copout but there is so much variance here depending on staffing and attendance. Also this is only one tournament series I am fortunate enough to have worked since the first one and every one since. When it began there was a lot more variance. As of late on weekdays if you don't sign the EO you can usually get 10-12 hours in. Mostly there are 4-balls but that can vary. Weekends will mean 14-18 hour shifts. Sometimes you will get stuck at the same table when it is a start later in the day and the organizers are waiting for the earlier-starting tournaments to start breaking down. Usually we'll get anywhere from 2-6 breaks in the longer shifts, depending on how things shake out.
They try not to force out dealers unless it is absolutely necessary. It happened one day the last time. Usually there's enough of an EO that it isn't needed.
As the room starts breaking down, they get rid of people from the EO first and then it's luck of the draw: If you break a table they send you home unless they have earlier starting dealers, in which case you take one of them out. Sometimes you can feel snakebit, but my honest feeling is that all of that evens out. I usually get more than enough hours to make it worth me going there and sometimes when it is slow and we have more downtime (breaks, dead spreads, up-downs where you do one table and then take a break) I just ask to leave.
Other dealers are there for their livelihood; I have a nice FT paycheck I get anyway so I can leave and let others make their money. They (my bosses) all know that I am there when they need me even if I am on the EO and wanted to do something.
I told this story in the Breakroom thread, I think, but one time the cops came in and tazed a guy in the one seat.
He and a relative (brother or cousin) was playing and he was being threatening to everyone - other players, dealers, supervisors, me - and security was brought in and his response was to be threatening to them. So the cops were called.
He gets into a hand with a reg from Ireland who has a great brogue when the cops show up. The guy shoves all his chips into the middle and the Irish guy is deliberating and the cops are telling him it's time to go. Not until I finish this hand, he says. The relative split - my guess is he wanted nothing to do with the police.
The cops were insistent that he leave now but he is adamant and flips over his hand - Aces with top set on the board. Cops response is to just taze the guy.
He hits the floor right at my feet (he was in the one seat) and the table scrambles. I grab the lid from under the table and secure the well and just sit there while the cops drag the guy off.
After they're gone and people start going back to the table, I look at the Irish guy and say in my most deadpan voice, "So, do you call?"
Guy says in that great accent, "I can't win!"
So I muck his hand and push the pot to the empty seat where the floor comes and bags it up.
I am aware that the Irish guy could have said something, the floor could have made a ruling, and it would not have been at all controversial to award the pot to the guy who was not tazed and dragged off by the police, but in the shock of what happened none of that occurred.
Craziest or most memorable hands you've dealt? Biggest pot?
I dealt a bad beat jackpot once. Quad Aces beat Quad sixes. Loser won $180k, winner won $90k, table share for the six others who were dealt in was $15k each. That was a wonderful day!
The biggest hand I dealt was in a $10/25 uncapped game that was in excess of $80,000.
Congrats on your successful career of service and assets saved and acquired.
I am lucky I get to watch people play a game and get paid for it.
Really enjoying this thread. Thanks, OP.
How did you learn to deal when you first started? If you were starting from scratch today, how would you go about learning to deal, and is there anything you would do differently in general?
$9k from the loser, $3k from the winner, another $3k from the table shares ranging from $1k to zero. So $15k total. Not a bad day at the office!
Thank you!
How did you learn to deal when you first started? If you were starting from scratch today, how would you go about learning to deal, and is there anything you would do differently in general?
I got into poker when I saw Chris Moneymaker on TV. That got me into playing local home games in Columbus, Ohio. One of the people in the local home games started up a casino party place called Rat Pack Entertainment. Since this was Ohio in the days before casinos everywhere, I was able to break in (and pick up some bad habits) while dealing casino parties. Also as someone who worked in a record store in my 30's and wrote for music magazines and local newspapers, I didn't have a ton of disposable income so I dealt bigger home games for tips.
I moved to the Philly area and worked for a record label but met up with a guy who did parties here and I still do them to this day on the side. The opening of table games for Pennsylvania casinos happened to coincide with my record company gig falling apart (like a lot of the music biz at the time) so I wound up opening a local poker room.
I had to be certified to get the job so I took classes at the casino that were free. I had a big advantage over most in the class because of my years of casino party experience and some time spent playing in casinos (a lot of applicants never knew a thing about poker) so I was able to get into the casino as a full-time dealer and I quit the record company.
If I had to change anything, I would not have spent several hundred bucks on a non-accredited "school" that opened up locally before the casinos opened up. I didn't learn very much and spent money that was useless when the casinos did open up.
I also would not have become a dual rate at the casino that hired me. I took a big pay cut, they treated me like **** (I didn't know that in most places you would get x-amount of dealing shifts; I was scheduled three months of floor duties exclusively after the "promotion") and it helped give them phony reasons to let me go.
Being let go wound up being the best thing for me though because I never would have wound up at the online casino had I been happy at my job there. And I would have been really screwed had I worked in a casino when COVID hit instead of the online casino where I just started working from home. So maybe it's for the best. But in the short term, it was a terrible move for me.
