Etiquette Question: Game breaks after I decline my straddle

Don't play in that game. If you insist doing so, you're need to follow their rules. Life isn't fair.

I somewhat disagree with this. If the game is in a public casino, and is advertised as a 5-5 game, the rule is that you need to post 5-5 blinds. There is no rule requiring you to post a straddle. If players want to play with a $25 blind, they should spread the game as 10-25 or 5-10-25.

If you are playing in a private game, you need to go along with what the rest of the table wants to play.

I was there last night playing in that game before you joined. I’m a regular and am familiar with all players involved. The two offending players who gave you a hard time are big winning players but are jerks, the one on your left is probably homophobic because one night he mocked me for posting that I was trying to find a date in the poker room (I am gay) and referred to me as “that” (a thing) and the one who told you to play a hand is verbally abusive - so much so towards me that I served him with a cease and desist letter to get him to stop harassing me. (I also play tight.) Trust me it’s not you it’s them.

Honestly any time you are in the game with them I just would not straddle given how big of pricks they are. Personally I don’t resort to that because I want to take them for as much money as possible.

Wow!

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it 😀

You meet 10 a-holes in a day....

i agree with this. its a public game, they cannot dictate whether you straddle or not, and have no way to prevent you from playing in the game.

Given you have been told by a reliable source that they are winners at the game play and do NOT straddle. Hurts them to break the game.

Agree. I think I made my point. Unfortunately, they didn't have new players to replace those players that left at the time, and we couldn't get it going again that day. I don't mind killing the straddle at that time because I felt like I could have been getting tilted and play off my A game.

The straddle is supposed to be optional but sometimes if the whole table is doing it, people can get offended. I generally try to comply or leave the table if the game gets too big, as long as I have a viable game to play in. In some places, the have 5 5 10 PLO, and but a lot of times the whole table would agree to straddle 20. The next lower game is 1 2 with a 5 dollar bring in. In that situation, we are talking about the choice of playing 1/2 with and optional 5 dollars to play, so only 3 dollars per round of blinds, or 10/20 (bigger than that (13.33 / 26.666 effectively). That's a big jump. I can't cover travel expenses playing 1/2. 10/20 is a much bigger game. Effectively 5 5 25 is 35 per round, so it's like a 11.66 / 23.33 game. But listed as 5/5. Some of the very best games are when the straddle is optional. Or if a straddle isn't available, blind raises are going on.

In this situation from the thread, they may have possibly perceived me as competition in the game and were trying to run me off, but i had plans to leave there already.

If I played there again (I'm not planning to go back again soon), I would try to forgive and forget and just play the game with straddle if they are doing it, and ignore any kind of negativity, unless it was something significant. Then I might go off table and talk to the floor guy and ask him what he suggest that I do. I'm unlikely to call a floor person over at the table because they seem to be skeptical to take sides when they are called over there at times.

I'm much more likely to play my best poker if those guys are at my table in the future, I'm always going to bring my A game, so they actually help inspire me to play better. Michael Jordan used to take negative comments from his opponents and use that as motivational. I think that's an effective way to use your problems instead of letting them use you!

Lots of thoughts:

1. The limits on the plaque are not suggestions. To play in the game you only have to post the listed blinds when it is your turn. Nothing more. Just because everyone else agrees to straddle does not bind you to anything.

Our $5/$10 NL game almost always straddles. A few months ago an older man started playing in the game. He refused to straddle. He was always very polite about it. If asked or pressured into straddling he simply said "I signed up to play $5/$10 and not $5/$10/$20." and he said it in a way that made it clear it was the end of the discussion. He always said others could do whatever they wanted but he was going to play $5/$10.

That said, not going along with the group can put a target on your back. Some players can target you looking to bust you to get rid of you. This is actually a positive because they will be playing suboptimally against you, but it can be stressful. Or conversely they will automatically throw you into the nit category. You might find it harder to get paid off on your good hands. Again this can be taken advantage of because they might be playing suboptimal.

2. It should be noted that in almost all situations that poker is first and foremost a social game. This generally means that a vast majority of players play for social reasons, but it also means social engineering is part of playing the game. Usually this is thought of as good players social engineering bad players by buttering them up or engaging them positively, but it can also mean engaging them negatively. Some players will be confrontatative with certain other players in order to make them react in some way. Either quit playing the game or to play badly. The best way to handle this is to recognize it for what it is and adjust. Just because someone is being a mildly rude ******* to you does not mean you HAVE to react to them. In fact, not giving them any feedback is often the best way to handle it because the lack of feedback will do more to them.

3. If the players who are leaving the game because you are not straddling are truly winning players, they are idiots. They are cutting their income as a way to try and punish you. Literal definition of cutting of your nose to spite your face.

"It should be noted that in almost all situations that poker is first and foremost a social game. This generally means that a vast majority of players play for social reasons, but it also means social engineering is part of playing the game. Usually this is thought of as good players social engineering bad players by buttering them up or engaging them positively, but it can also mean engaging them negatively. Some players will be confrontatative with certain other players in order to make them react in some way. Either quit playing the game or to play badly. The best way to handle this is to recognize it for what it is and adjust. Just because someone is being a mildly rude ******* to you does not mean you HAVE to react to them. In fact, not giving them any feedback is often the best way to handle it because the lack of feedback will do more to them."

I think "not straddling" is reasonable if some players want to get confrontational or for whatever reason you might not want to do it.

Agree that having thick skin is optimal.

That said, not going along with the group can put a target on your back. Some players can target you looking to bust you to get rid of you. This is actually a positive because they will be playing suboptimally against you, but it can be stressful. Or conversely they will automatically throw you into the nit category. You might find it harder to get paid off on your good hands. Again this can be taken advantage of because they might be playing suboptimal.

It can be stressful if there is a very high amount of peer pressure and a lot of people are upset because they feel like you're "freerolling" them because you didn't straddle. If the game goes back to the regular stakes, then the winning players are making less, including me if the game is really good. I found it was ok to not straddle for a little while, but after a few weeks of not doing it last year because my baby was in the hospital and the next lower stake after this bigger game was 1/2 (not worth my time). I sold some of assets to cover the bankroll issue. It was just too toxic of an environment. None of those guys even bothered to check in with me and ask how I was doing. If I didn't have that nest egg to tap into, I would have found a different placet to play at. Some places such as the game your described or in Vegas or in certain games for example, all of the regular's straddle. I don't know any regulars who play a lot that won't do it.

Also, it was ruining my table image. They thought I'm not an action player. But the biggest nits of all were the guys who only straddle when the whole table does it. The casual players don't realize they are kind of being scammed at times. Like the guy in my post. I sat down and it was my BB. He told me I had to straddle to come in. But in reality, I didn't.

If everyone is cool with it that's fine. I don't pressure people to do it personally. I'll back them up if I see people getting bullied.

"3. If the players who are leaving the game because you are not straddling are truly winning players, they are idiots. They are cutting their income as a way to try and punish you. Literal definition of cutting of your nose to spite your face."

I've seen this happen. Usually there are other tables to go to. But if there is only one table and the game isn't good they will leave and blame it on the straddle. But if the game was actually good, they wouldn't leave.

After these guys leave, (usually the majority of them are pros), and then a lot of happy recreational players will come, and the game gets much better and lighter. Then we can straddle optionally and that's fine also. Those were some of the best games I played in when I was not straddling.

VERY similar set up I ran into at Cherokee during a circuit event. 5/5 PLO two vacant seats get filled by two obvious friends; playing maybe $2K - $2,500 each. Female of the two immediately asks table to do a mandatory straddle, but only UTG; no button straddling. Everyone else agreed except me (I explained that this would take away an advantage) and the female became pretty rude. I reminded her that I have no problem with straddling whenever, but I'm not going to be limited by such an odd request.

Anyone seen that version before?

To be clear, the odd request is the "no button straddling" part? As in, button straddling is common in that game, and she was asking the table to agree to not do it?

Correct, she only wanted the under the gun player to straddle. No way I agree to that.

Also, only in the last few months has this room changed from a $10 straddle to $10 - $25 options.

IMO she was literally asking the table to modify the rules the casino had approved by gaming.

Just like she can't force everyone to straddle. She can't force anyone to not straddle be it UTG or OTB. What's next? We must size the bets like they do in Limit Omaha?

I would probably refuse to UTG straddle but then double straddle from the button just to tilt her.

In a situation like this I would never sit down in a game where everyone had agreed to straddle and then not put out a straddle when it was clear the game would break. Its just not considerate.

If I am in a game where we are not straddling and then a few guys suggest we all straddle for one round I will typically do it if everyone else agrees. If not everyone agrees then I probably don't straddle UTG. Unless there are 6 or fewer players active.

However for some strange reason at the WSOP cash games you can straddle on the BTN (as well as UTG). Pre-flop you acted last if you straddled on the BTN. This was a 2/5 NL game but my guess is that it is for any game. I played in a few of these and if anyone was straddling on the BTN then I would do it because it is in my opinion a huge advantage. But I didn't do it first because I didn't want any of the really bad players to leave (and many would if the stakes doubled). One time the entire table agreed to the straddle and when we got some new players some of them just left. Some of them didn't straddle but continued to play, which was excellent.

Button straddles are horrible so she was right to want people to utg straddle not button straddle.

But I would find it annoying that she wants to increase the size of the game by using straddles, especially if you suspect collusion.

UTG straddle was the preferred format by most players at the WSOP cash in Las Vegas over the summer.

Some players like to do button straddles and we had some games going where the button was straddling.

Was there anybody straddling before those 2 arrived?

Also, if there is an UTG straddle, the button can still restraddle. The button has priority. At WSOP cash, you're allowed to restraddle from any position. One restraddle only. Button gets first priority The first straddle can be up to 25 on some tables, but the actual rule was 20 but still 25 was happening at times. Then can restaddle to 50. Many of the dealers won't know the rules and will let you do whatever if it's WSOP event.

Theres nothing wrong with not agreeing to do the format if you don't like it.

Basically, everybody has to agree (as you're aware). I'm not surprised that you were truly treated rudely though. I see that a lot when somebody objects to straddling when the rest of the table is doing it or agrees. Especially if they are travelling and it's a wsop event, so there's probably a lot of chaos gong on typical.

I feel like this lady and her friend wanted to basically double the stake of the game. And that's the outcome that they wanted. Button straddle could accomplish the same thing, but the structure would be a little bit different, some people think it's not a good structure. I played it some at WSOP and I enjoyed it to change it up. Those games were pretty good actually. Also, if you have a button straddle, some action players will restraddle OOP, then that's possibly performing better than the UTG straddle. Some guy straddles UTG, then the button puts a restraddle, and the action starts with? SB, from what I recall.

Note: shorthanded the button straddle seemed to perform better. It's hard to do the UTG format if it's 5 5 10 the 4 blind cause hard for people to get up and take a break. We changed to button straddle for that reason one day and it performed better. It's viable to have button straddles. AT least you're getting them out of their comfort zone a little bit with a structure they are not accustomed to playing.

You will probably see this a lot in the future at these kind of events.

UTG is pretty popular and also the straddle.

And yet at the WSOP this year that is exactly what they did in the games I played in. If UTG straddled and somebody straddled on the BTN, the UTG was required to take back his straddle. Then the SB started the pre-flop action.

I actually liked the BTN straddle when all players at the table wanted to do it. The players weren't all good and it turned the game into a 2/5/10 game where position of the straddle mattered a lot. There were some players who stopped straddling (and they weren't very good). So I was playing at stakes I'm comfortable with and some of the players weren't but didn't realize it was happening. A few players bounced and I made money each time I played.

Sounds like it was great for you and cancer for the game.

I am not even sure what the bolded statement is trying to say.

5 5 PLO games run with a straddle more often than not (whole table agrees to straddle)

UTG straddles are the most popular form. This is very common.

Also very popular is to straddle after the rock in rock games.

I think this 2nd scenario in the thread where the lady and her friend showed up and asked if everyone wanted to agree to an UTG straddle is very common.

And I'm pretty sure that the button can re-straddle in some games. There were a lot of guys doing at my tables in WSOP 5 5 10 with a 20 dollar UTG straddle. A re-straddle was allowed from any position, with button given priority for the re-straddle.