Showdown: I have a "queen"

He can say, I'll show all of my cards if she's shows her first, because she's first to act?

Or this is controversial ?

It's PLO not NL, so possibly a little bit of a different dynamic than the OP which was a NL hand.

You are correct on a very thin technicality. The dealer is trying to move the game along by, as chillrob said, nudging the player who is attempting to demonstrate the best held hand. He is short-circuiting the dick dance.

I don't know if it's controversial or not. I do know that it's stupid.

What if you beat her two cards but then she shows all her cards and she has you beat by using some other combination? Then you lose the pot, and because you were being difficult about it.

I've seen this happen myself, and I barely play any PLO.

Because sear 1 still has cards and can table a hand. As of this time, there is no tabled hand but two live hands.

Quit the freakin games and t@ble your d@mn hands so we can get to next hand.

It's probably only an issue for me if I'm playing against an aggressive player who's been giving me some problems at the tables and I never get to see what he's bluffing with.

And then let's say a few minutes later he's putting me all in and I'm in a tough spot.

Then in that case this strategy of showing when they don't show at all times can get pretty costly. I'll need to pay about 3 K on the river to finally see what he had, possibly.

I'd rather pick some spots where I want to know what he had, without paying the 3K river bet.

Namaste, please just show all 4 when you have the best hand regardless of what seat 1 does. You open yourself to angle possibilities if you don’t. Suppose seat 1 refuses to show and you do as well. You pick your two exposed and two unexposed cards up and toss them to the dealer. By the letter of the rules, you have now mucked your hand without tabling it. Seat 1 has not. Seat 1 still has a live hand. By the letter of the rule, the dealer has no choice but to push the pot to seat 1 in that case.

Just table your hand. If seat 1 is first to act or was the last aggressor on the river, then technically he/she is supposed to table first. But the reality is that it isn’t worth losing a pot to make sure that the technicalities are all followed to the letter. Show your hand and claim the pot. You must show all 4 to make a claim to the pot.

So my options are

1. Show all 4 or 5 (showing 2 is not an option)

2. Ask him to show his hand first if he wants to see my hand,

3. Say nothing. Wait for the dealer to tell him to show his hand or he mucks. If he shows his full hand, then I'll show my cards.

I think I got it!

Its unclear from the original post whether or not the winner has to show his hand at showdown if everyone else mucks their hand.

In situations where the winner does have to show their hand then I will always show my hand if I beat what my opponent says. The reason is because I want to have the same benefit when I am in that situation and I say "A high" or "no pair" or whatever describes what I have without having to show my hand. As was mentioned if somebody lies about what they have and I then turn over my hand and lose I will never turn my hand over for that player again (and it happened with 2 regulars in 20/40 LHE one at Foxwoods and one at the Borgota back in the day)

In situations where the winner doesn't have to show their hand when everyone else mucks then it changes everything. In tournaments where that is now always the case I won't show my hand regardless of what the other player says. This rarely becomes a personal issue like it did here. The person who says "I missed" in general knows they either have to show or muck and ultimately will either show or muck. The dealer in general knows the rule and will tell the player what needs to be done. And if he doesn't then I will. It is just not in my interest to show my strategies (both pre-flop and post-flop) to the whole table if I don't have to.

In cash games if a player doesn't have to turn over their hand when they win then I will typically not turn over my hand. It is up to the player in question to either turn over or muck their hand. I prefer not to show the whole table my strategy if I can avoid it. Even if it means getting the wrath of a player who gets angry when they lose and then choose to vent their anger at me. Like what happened here.

The irony of this issue came up at Parx casino a few months ago. I had called a player down in 2/5 NL on the turn with a small flush draw. On the river he checked and I checked because I blocked some of his bluffs. I was playing the board. He said "I missed" and I said nothing. The dealer told him to either show his hand or muck it. So he mucked it. I then had to show my hand which won a pot of over $200. And the player was upset but didn't say anything. About an hour later, the situation came up again. He raised preflop and I called on the BTN with AJ. I don't remember the betting details except that we both checked the river and it was a fairly small pot. He said "I missed" and I hesitated. He then told me I had to show and I felt bad about the earlier hand and I was going to have to show the winner anyway so I turned over AJ. He then turned over AK and won the hand (with no pair). And he acted like he had done and said the right thing which is sort of true because he had missed. I don't play cash at Parx much (I don't go to Parx much) but if I ever see him in a game there again I won't turn over my hand unless he mucks or I have him beat after he turned over his hand. Especially because he might just muck a winning hand again...

The other irony of this issue occurred at Parx as well (again a few months ago). I was not in the hand but it came down to the river where a player bet and another player called. The player who bet didn't and wouldn't turn his hand over. The dealer then turned to the player who called and asked him to turn his hand over. The player asked why and the dealer said because he was closer to the button (he was the BB). I then said to the dealer "It is the player who bet who has to show or muck their hand". The dealer said to me that I was wrong. Then some other players defended me and the dealer got angry and called the Floor over. The Floor told the player who bet that he had to turn his hand over or muck and the Dealer got really really angry when the Floor left. The dealer came at me loud and angry and nasty as if I had done something wrong and I said "What the f*ck is going on" or something like that. The Dealer then screamed for the Floor to come over and have me banned because I had cursed at him and another player said "He did not curse at you" and I said the same thing to him and then the Floor. The Floor asked me if I wanted another dealer brought to the table and I said "No I'm good. I think it was a misunderstanding." And then the dealer thanked me and totally calmed down. Next hand that I won I tipped the dealer ($1) to let him know it wasn't going to be a thing, and he thanked me and apologized for his behavior. I also apologized for having gotten mad at him for what he had tried to do and we left it at that.

2. See #1.

Sure, if you are the only live hand, and the house rules don’t require you to show, then by all means don’t show. In this spot, though (as I understood it), villain did not muck but also did not properly table a hand - only shows two cards. If hero only shows two, thinks he won and then tosses his hand toward the dealer, he is at risk for losing the pot. A good dealer would likely not mix his hand into the muck, but I personally would not want to rely on the dealer to save my butt here. In that case, villain could hold onto his hand and have the only live cards. With no tabled hand, there would be no other option but to give the pot to villain.

That’s why I wouldn’t risk it - just table the hand properly and claim the pot. Besides speeding the game along you avoid the risk of losing a pot that you rightfully won.

I suspect that poster knew exactly what was happening, knew his opponent had not tabled his full hand, and also knew he had not tabled his full hand. He was showing just enough to prove to the opponent that he was beat, so opponent would discard his hand without tabling, so he could then discard without showing his full hand. I don't think in this particular case there was any real danger of the player accidentally discarding before his opponent and then losing the pot.

Having said that, people make mistakes all the time. Anyone can have a brain fart. It's safest to just table your hand if you're going to show it.

I am also almost always going to fastroll my hand when my opponent says he missed or makes it clear he doesn't want to show. Even if he ends up beating me, I don't really care. Only if the guy is being a douchy slowroller (which I honestly don't care about either, but it's symptomatic of the person being a prick to play with) will I stop giving them that courtesy and always make them show in turn. Much like Mr Rick, there are only 2 people on that list for me after 25 years of casino poker.

Plus, like one of you said, the opponent may have misread his own hand, and if you make it unclear to him that he should fold, or make it uncomfortable for him to do so while you cause a scene and bring attention to him, he may table it and end up winning the pot by accident. In 4 and 5 card games I have misread my hand numerous times, so now I just always table my full hand when at showdown. I have won a hand I thought I lost, or picked up half the pot in a high low game, numerous times doing this. Doesn't say much for my poker skill (I am mostly playing these split pot games for fun while waiting for my main game), but my results tracking appreciates it.

I also play at Parx, where, as Mr Rick intimated, the room rule is you have to show even if you're the only one left with cards at showdown. (We all know it's a dumb rule but the state regs were written in a confusing way that seems to require it.) So you're always going to have to show your hand anyway to win any part of the pot in that situation. Might as well get it over with and use it to your advantage.

nice rule change needed. Flip all cards over, loser or not. or if you wanna muck that's fine, no going back.