are draws considered for value or bluffs on flop
Learning to construct my range with the roughly:
flop 1 value : 2 bluffs
turn 1 value : 1 bluff
river 2 value : 1 bluff
* I know river betting range is constructed based on the bet size so it's not exactly 2-to-1 val-to-bluff ratio.
I understand this concept, but Im having trouble categorizing big draws, not just big draws but oesd and flush draws as well. Do I consider them value hands or high equity bluff hands?
Or are the draws just extra hands thats include without altering the ration of the nutted hands and no equity bluff hands?
I remember from somewhere that big draw hands can be considered as half a value hand. Is this the way to go?
alright then
5 Replies
I guess the draws are considered half a bluff because they are semibluffs? that sounds about right.
With this being the case, when draw comes in, we would have better value hands and then have to use previously made hands thats now bottom of range as new bluffs.
The classification of value and bluff really only fully applies on the river when hand values are completely determined. A “value” hand otf can (as we all know) quickly turn into a worthless hand depending on the run out. A “bluff” otf can likewise become value. Generally, though, from what I have read you would treat draws as bluffs for the purpose of range construction. They certainly have equity, but you are usually not a favorite to win when you have a draw, and without fold equity, betting draws usually is -EV.
Combo draws are an exception. If you have a 13 out or greater draw, then it truly is value otf (but not on the turn). You are favored to win and a bet is +EV even if you know for certain your opponent will call.
For the purpose of value:bluff ratios (in the context of polarized attacks), what matters is how often your draw will be the nuts at showdown. A draw with 30% equity is counts as 30% nuts, 70% bluffs.
I like the points you make in all these posts. Well done!
Stremba70, its so true that you can't for certain ascribe how much value you have on the flop and that its only possible on the river. I kind of knew this but never thought about it. You only have an idea how valuable it is and how likely the hand will maintain or diminish its equity after more cards comes out. Its like playing Omaha and judging what type of hand you expect¹ to make and if it is worth it to continue.
i was doing some hand analysis and practicing constructing my range and found that hitting the 2:1 bluff:value ratio, all you really need are draws to fill out the bluff portion. Usually its down to the gutters and that should be enough.
But if you need to balance a check range, then you need to replace those draws with backdoors and the no equity bluffs.
Just noticed that on earlier streets you want bluffs with equity and on river you would prefer the worst hands that are somehow unblocking folds. But to get to get to the river with these types of hands, we gotta have so much more bluffs on earlier streets. Not sure if its a good thing to play like that though.
