1/2 deep: Flat KK here to trap the whale and aggro pro?
$1/$2 live. I’m on the button with $1.8k.
UTG ($500) opens to $10, UTG1 ($300) calls, HJ �� ($1k) calls, then CO (aggro pro, $3k) makes it $70.
I look down at KK on the BTN.
• CO is capable of folding to a 4-bet unless he has QQ+/AK.
• There’s a whale in the HJ with $1k, who calls any single-raise pot preflop but folds to 4-bets without fail. He’s sticky postflop and has already punted a couple $3k playing trash hands.
If I 4-bet here, I likely win the ~$100 pot preflop.
If I flat, I:
• Keep the whale in with dominated hands
• Give CO a chance to hang himself postflop
• Play a deep pot in position with a disguised monster
I usually auto-4b KK here, but this setup felt like a rare spot where flatting might print more.
Thoughts? Is flatting best here to maximize value from the whale? Or is that being too fancy?
7 Replies
You've got decent reasons for doing it, so why not? Though it might go more than 3 way if the original opener or callers come along.
That's a deeeeep 1/2 game.
You’re way too deep to trap and go multi way.
The only way for it to be accurate that CO is an aggro pro but will most likely fold everything but QQ+/AK is if you are a nit. Which is to say if you’re not 4betting pure here, you’re either making a huge mistake now, or your game overall is drastically flawed.
You’re deep against a whale and an aggressive opponent holding a premium hand. Put money in the pot. The only question here is exploitatively how big can you go
The only way for it to be accurate that CO is an aggro pro but will most likely fold everything but QQ+/AK is if you are a nit. Which is to say if you’re not 4betting pure here, you’re either making a huge mistake now, or your game overall is drastically flawed.You’re deep against a whale and an aggressive opponent holding a premium hand. Put money in the pot. The only question
Yes we’ve been nitty and card dead which means we will most likely just get everyone to fold if we 4b here
The thing with 4 betting these spots is you announce to the table you have QQ+,AK - that's great to win the current money out there, but unlikely you get big donations postflop. On the flip side calling multiway sort of sucks but it is Hold Em so unlikely someone will improve on the flop to a better hand. I think with the whale factored in here and the aggro 3 bettor, maybe calling is the way to go but you will run into tough postflop spots if CO is good. I think given the whale and your OTB I would call - no whale or being OOP I might 4b.
There’s a whale in the HJ with $1k, who calls any single-raise pot preflop but folds to 4-bets without fail. He’s sticky postflop...
Are we just ignoring this read? Yes, ldo KK should be raised the vast majority of times. Absolutely agree it's a mistake normally not to raise this, but it might be a larger mistake to let V off the hook cheaply, if V will pay us off bigly later.
Also ldo, H needs to not fall in love with their big pair if the board gets wet and $$ starts to pile in. Also true that H probably should have a broader 4! range than KK+, >500bb deep, and probably doesn't. Hence the issue.
I would probably 4bet but calling isn’t as bad as people think it is. If the pro had just called, we’d be 3betting, right? And then the action could go call/call. And whatever you think of that spot, this spot is at least as good if we call.
By the way, I am not sure if the pro folds all worse stuff here, which is why I lean to 4betting. A lot of people will level themselves into thinking that we are wider than we really are, even if it’s actually true that we are really tight in these spots.
EDIT: there is another thing that seems important that we have to be really honest about. If we do not 4bet, and we lose the hand, are we OK with that or is it possible we will tilt? Because being at a table with a whale who sees a lot of flops in 3bet pots is the wrong time to be knocked off our game.
