Daniel Negreanu's very own containment thread. All things Danny go here
how bad must he be when a girl falls asleep while making out and snores right after?
life fish..... food arrived but didn
Lol@ people in the latest vlog praising Amanda's "abs". So many people out there who are painfully ignorant and/or stupid.
If you skip all that, and all the self-help/health guru segments you can really knock these out in 5-10 minutes, and they're not bad.
Of course, if you wanna know about improving your cognitive abilities by sleeping with carrot juice in socks and having 10 red M&Ms with your 255oz of water a day you're missing out
He is one of the best mixed game tournament players, but probably not the best. He is not at the same level, but up there, in NLHE tournaments. He does OK in PLO tournaments in mostly pro fields, although he may not play PLO well technically.
He has the huge endorsement contract, etc. due to his TV time back when, his flamboyant personality, and willingness to toe the company line ("more rake is better"). He doesn't seem to play that much; maybe as he doesn't need to with the contract and assets. He is a good player, but certainly not a superstar at this point.
As for the limped behind hand QT96 hand, I think it was multiway in that there was a limper and 2 blinds, so 4-way. Not a PLO expert, but understand tournament strategy. QT96 is better and has more playability than a random hand (which is what the blinds have), and you have position and an ante. It isn't like you were overcalling a raise with it, and playing it against 2 good hands, which would obviously be terrible. Opponents may be playing weak tight, and you can get some folds postflop in position. You can limp behind very lose because you have position and the blinds have random hands. I am sure he knows it is not good hand, but it is the situation. If it is a mistake, it can't be that bad a mistake.
If you skip all that, and all the self-help/health guru segments you can really knock these out in 5-10 minutes, and they're not bad.
Of course, if you wanna know about improving your cognitive abilities by sleeping with carrot juice in socks and having 10 red M&Ms with your 255oz of water a day you're missing out
The poker content is generally pretty solid. The rest is nails on a chalk board.
Need to do a simulation of how QT96 plays against a limping hand and 2 random hands with dead money of an ante and position 4-ways. You should obviously limp behind with a wide range there. Raising would be really bad, getting HU against a better hand. Totally DN's style to limp in and play postflop. You are just showing why he wins PLO tournaments.
It's not mainly a PLO concept, except there is more limping there. When there is a limped pot, particularly just one limper, you can limp behind wide on the button, because you have the position, and you are partly playing against the blinds with random hands. It works also in NLHE, limit HE, and O8. He was limping behind light on the button. I am sure he knew QT96 was not that good a hand.
Even the guy who wrote the "daniel negreanu" song has visible cringe on his face as Daniel tries to make him sing on the vlog.
It's not mainly a PLO concept, except there is more limping there. When there is a limped pot, particularly just one limper, you can limp behind wide on the button, because you have the position, and you are partly playing against the blinds with random hands. It works also in NLHE, limit HE, and O8. He was limping behind light on the button. I am sure he knew QT96 was not that
It's actually amazing that you're going on and on as though I didn't do as much research as I could without spending money.
You need to do some real research of your own or stop talking about the hand. I literally do not understand why you think you can argue about it when you've ostensibly put zero work in other than observing the admittedly inexperienced "oh idk it doesn't seem that bad to me" feelings you have.
And, yes: you need to do some research here, because this was a $50K we're talking about, not the $600 deepstack that you could maybe argue just about any line for cuz "lol explo".
I've written a book on microstakes PLO (two, technically), I assisted with a high stakes PLO book, I assisted its author with high stakes coaching outside of the book, and I've played more PLO than anybody really ever should (mental health is important, y'all).
I'm just asking that you show me the modicum of respect I've earned from the time I've put into understanding PLO. Please stop doing evidence-free second-guessing, especially when you're not moving the conversation forward at all. Nobody is learning anything from your shockingly repetitive comments, and Daniel Negreanu doesn't need you to advocate for him (especially when I don't even hate him; for the zillionth time, I look forward to and enjoy his WSOP vlog... except for PLO episodes).
Unrelated(ish): please mark Day 30 of the 2025 WSOP as the momentous occasion on which Daniel Negreanu found a disciplined laydown preflop in a (partially) PLO tournament. Is it too soon to start discussing the possibility of an international holiday observing it?
You are an anonymous poster. I don't know who you are or what microstakes books you wrote. Sorry for the lack of respect.
I don't doubt Negreanu plays too loose in PLO tournaments in general. However, tournaments are different from cash games. You are fighting over the blinds and antes. In PLO cash, the play is much looser.
In a tournament when it is passed to you on the button, you should play very loose with position against random hands. Similarly if there is one limper to you on the button. In PLO, position is more important. It is hard for the blinds to raise limpers preflop OOP, even if they probably have the best hand.
It's actually amazing that you're going on and on as though I didn't do as much research as I could without spending money. You need to do some real research of your own or stop talking about the hand. I literally do not understand why you think you can argue about it when you've ostensibly put zero work in other than observing the admittedly inexperienced "oh idk it doesn't se
Well to be fair, people were jumping on the QT96 limp as the smoking gun of his PLO incompetence without knowing there were many limpers or a big blind ante.
Yeah sure maybe it’s losing a little chip EV but maybe not if incorporate his utility curve in that he wants to win first. But who cares. I look forward to next 1,000 word essay
He is probably going to bust from the PPC $50K mixed. 32nd of 32, 17 places paying.
Some online microstakes grinder plays by hand charts and doesn't understand you need to loosen your ranges in certain situations on the button in tournaments. Sorry for the lack of respect.
Well to be fair, people were jumping on the QT96 limp as the smoking gun of his PLO incompetence without knowing there were many limpers or a big blind ante.
Yeah sure maybe it’s losing a little chip EV but maybe not if incorporate his utility curve in that he wants to win first. But who cares. I look forward to next 1,000 word essay
His PLO MTT results are pretty good. QT96 is theoretically a fold with a limp on the button with 30bb effective and ICM model. DNegs has openly stated he's playing chip EV even on the final table. Of course he's going to limp it.
He busted out of the PPC in PLO raising AT85 suited to the ace from CO. Hellmuth repotted QQT5 single suited from the SB and DN called allin for less. Obviously another very marginal hand.
I didn't do any sims with QT96 suited, but it is obvious it is pretty close whether to limp behind with it on the button. Can't be a big mistake. Not sure how important ICM was at that stage, I think significantly away from the money.
@TropicThunder
I think the sims without ICM effects are more relevant. As you say Daniel doesnt care about ICM, but it was also fairly early in the tournament. I also believe there had been at least 1 if not 2 limps in front if Daniel. So I wonder if this sim is more relevant for the situation:
Or maybe this one:
Stack size and number of limpers in front matters. But overlimping QT96ss to the 9 is at best only barely solver approved but mostly its a mistake. (But whether or not it is a mistake in game against players who are not playing solver ranges is another matter entirely)
As a side note. Someone mentioned the QQJ4ss hand that Daniel open limped in early position. That may very well be solver approved. Mastermind dont offer preflop sims with openlimping for 8max or for stacks over 100bb. But 100bb deep and 6 handed Monker solver really likes to open limp QQss and KKss hands without an A
And QQJxss specifically:
Also as a further sidenote: When given the opportunity to openlimp, Monkersolver really likes limping when rake is low enough and there are antes. In particular for mid stacks like 30-50bb. To my knowledge this changes dramatically when ICM effects are introduced. But the golden rule of thumb of never open limping might not be entirely correct for PLO - at least in settings with little to no rake and extra dead money in the pot
He busted out of the PPC in PLO raising AT85 suited to the ace from CO. Hellmuth repotted QQT5 single suited from the SB and DN called allin for less. Obviously another very marginal hand.
When you have about 3-4 BB left in a tournament, you sometimes have to play marginal hands. All the respect due to you is given.
Daniel 2nd in chips with 50 left in the $10K Limit 2-7. Seems like hes for every mixed tournament hes near the chip lead and makes a final table. I really dont want to hear anyone in this thread talk about how the game has passed this guy by. He is very clearly still one of the most well rounded players in the game.
Daniel 2nd in chips with 50 left in the $10K Limit 2-7. Seems like hes for every mixed tournament hes near the chip lead and makes a final table. I really dont want to hear anyone in this thread talk about how the game has passed this guy by. He is very clearly still one of the most well rounded players in the game.
The majority of the naysayers have stated they believe Dnegs is strong in mixed games, and does well in fields outside the massive high-rollers. But that he's outclassed in high rollers and he overestimates his skill in PLO.
