Low SPR question

I think there are a couple of things going on at once. In general, people like to see the flop. And people like to see the turn. Therefore, in a live game, I try to look as casual as possible with bets, bet sizes and amount of time I take to act to have a fun game for all while mostly waiting until the turn to apply pressure.

Flop: 7h4c2d

I just don't see Villain giving you any credit for hitting this low flop. He is either calling or folding no matter what size you bet on the flop. Therefore, within reason and possibility, I would bet the flop in a way that makes the turn SPR equal 1 so that the turn is where you bet big and apply true pressure if you want. The math works out nicely for you in many ways here. The flop pot size is about $390 and betting 1/3 of the pot is about as normal as it comes (same goes for 1/2 pot sized bets). So if you bet 1/3 pot into the $390 pot you would be betting $130 and the turn SPR would be a tiny bit over 1. But here is where you casual size up using $25 chips and instead of betting $130 you instead bet $150 and everything looks normal and fine. The turn SPR is a little under 1 and you mostly likely just end this hand on the turn with a bet if you like.

Idk what this guy above is ever talking about. His entire strategy is always ever based around jamming turns and rivers at 1 SPR and doesn’t ever approach anything resembling theory.

I’m not sure what jamming turns and rivers at 1 SPR exploits in loose recs gameplay either so I would take it with a grain of salt until he can flesh out his thought process more.

Theory wise we never bet small here. We also never check. This board is low and unconnected with no FD. It’s about as dry as can be in a 4 bet pot and one of the best boards to see as the 4bettor.

We can and should pot liberally with our ENTIRE range here which puts opponents entire range in a blender. He’s against aces a lot but sometimes against rundown hands that the 4b is drawing borderline dead to the callers overpairs and he has to find some calls or be exploited, which they almost never unless they just have sticky KK they can’t fold.

POT with your entire range on these low dry rainbow boards in 4b pots

I’m not sure what this childish like demeanor you have is. No one is in “trouble” or getting put in time out. I responded on the last thread my thought process as to why I posted what I did and it’s been crickets. No one actually wants to have the real conversation because majority don’t have the background or understanding to actually have it. That’s fine though, we are here to just have discussions and hopefully learn from one another or see different POVs.

This is simply a forum to discuss Omaha strategy and nothing more.

I just am consistently confused as to why you base your entire strategy around turn/river 1 SPR and devolve an entire gametree down to this aspect and speak as if it is some exploit to maximize EV vs the Recs.

For example your last post states the caller will call any size flop bet if he has a piece or fold range if he doesn’t, yet you bet small. Why? Wouldn’t betting maximum exploit his inelastic calling range? Wouldn’t betting small exploit yourself and allow him to profitably call flops and play turns perfectly if he hits? I’m confused at what your exploit actually accomplishes and this is the case with all your SPR exploit posts. Why are you advocating for this strategy? What is it accomplishing?

Just seems like nonsense when you view it from a theory perspective and even more so when you try and locate the +EV exploitation.

Hey man when it is thread after thread of people calling you an emotional clown or prick, maybe you should learn from it. I and a half dozen people thought 11 days ago when you apologized that you were finally done. But here you are are again.

Pretty easy pot/call for me.

Agree the theory is pretty clear about attacking low boards with large sizing given pf range advantage in a 4!

Now that this thread has calmed down...

OP gave us a whole paragraph on Villain Bob. I can't remember the last paragraph read on a Villain I've seen. Therefore call me crazy, but I thought this was the exploit Villain Bob thread, not the theory thread. If someone doesn't like my exploit of Villain Bob, please don't get your panties in a bunch.

So what is the exploit?

Why are we betting small vs loose aggressive Bob who is generally too sticky?

SPR 2. Two ways to do it. Bet big against Villain Bob on flop and almost no money if left to play on turn and the hand goes to showdown and you have to win at showdown. Or bet small on turn and set up a shove on a later street and potentially win without going to showdown against Villain Bob. Even loose players get progressively tighter as a hand goes from street to street. Also Munga had a second paragraph of thoughts and opinions about how things would play out that I factored in.

If you don't like it, then state your case. And state your ****ing case without a diatribe meltdown thread after thread. Only one person thread after thread is being called an emotional clown and prick towards others.

So your exploit against a player who is too loose and sticky is to bet small and allow him to fold on later streets due to facing too big a bet? Would that not allow him to fold properly and reduce the profit you make from his inelastic calling range?

Why is the exploit for someone who calls too much with too weak a range to bet small?

Should we not be betting larger with a more condensed and value heavy range to exploit them?

I’d argue that potting the flop would still get call happy Bob to call all over pairs and any piece of the flop like pair and gutter just as much as a lower bet will. On top of that, since the turn will put us at a .5 SPR, he will have to call off turns as well to a half pot size bet if he still has the pair + draw portion of his range and he will most likely just sigh call the overpair portion, generating us the max value from our hand.

Your method minimizes the mistake of his too sticky portion of his range and giving him too big of a bet on the turn in terms of SPR may allow him to hero fold the dead portion of his range like bare overpairs and pair + gutter while also allowing him to properly call off the live portion of his range like 2 pair+

Sounds to me like your exploit is reverse exploiting yourself while allowing our villain to play better.

Bravo a post by you not acting like a prick. That should have been your original post in this thread.

My first read through your word salad is that you still are absurdly pedantic. And you swing back and forth between to conveniently have Bob be too loose at times you need him to be too loose and the times you need him to fold he folds.

Seriously, I laughed and almost stopped reading when you started writing what Bob is willing or not willing continue with on a pot size bet on the flop. Your post is duplicitous, which is fine and people can make their own judgements. But like you learned 11 days ago that caused you to apologize to this sub-forum, people are tired of your thread after thread diatribe meltdowns directed at people.

I was using your own ideas though.

You stated

“Even loose players get progressively tighter as a hand goes from street to street.”

Do you think he would be more inclined to fold the turn if he is facing a full size pot bet or a half size pot bet?

It seems your entire idea is predicated on winning the hand before the river. I don’t believe that to be the most optimal play. We want him to call with his weak range. We don’t want to give him an opportunity to fold his weak range correctly and only call the nutted portion.

Let’s attack his inelastic flop calling range and then give him too good a price on turn he has to call off turns with any hand with 20% equity or more. If he folds a hand like pair and gutter to a half pot bet then he may be making a mistake given pot odds and thus, he gets exploited again.

Coincidentally, this all coincides with GTO and we actually can just exploit him fully by playing completely GTO in this instance.

Wrong.

Garbage in, garbage out. Hey buddy just state your case and leave others out of it. Your track record of commenting on anything written by anyone else has been piss poor. Again, multiple people tried to have an intervention on your behavior to others and you still haven't learned or understood anything.

This really is a basic thing that almost everyone on this sub-forum understands besides you. People post their opinions and don't usually even come close to taking swipes at other posters. Prick is a strong word, but people have told you several times to stop being a prick. And you have apologized. Yet today, here were are again. Your first sentence in this thread was you being a dickwad again.

I have issues with echemondos style, but his advice is usually solid, and bluefeets advice is up there with the worst I've ever seen on this forum, to the point of being quite amusing to read.

With no fd on board and not much money left to get in, we can afford to bet small here. I'd probably go between 100 and 200.

The shtick is played out buddy. You’re just repeating yourself now without any contribution to the thread or topic at hand.

It’s ok to speak your mind and give your opinion, just be able to defend it with logic and poise.

For what it’s worth though, you have no idea what you are talking about and seem to misunderstand all the concepts you speak of lol. Have a good night and goodluck at the tables.

Wazz' most recent comment about Echemondo's behavior.

This forum is dead enough. Not enough speak up about Echemondo acting like a prick. Wazz is so inconsistent who knows where he will blow next, but at least he spoke up. The rest staying silent deserve your fate at a dead sub-forum.

And I enjoy Wazzy recommending betting 100 to 200 here, yet disagreeing with me when I said bet 150 here. Pure gold.

Really interesting discussion I must say, however, a bit emotional indeed for whatever reasons.

If we know that the Villain does not have low rundowns in his/her range (in micro stakes you never know 😃) and we want to stack off, then I would also continue with 33% bet to enable Villain make mistakes. In my opinion this scenario is rather similar to a 4 bet pot with a SPR 1-1.5 on a flop 337 let´s say (no flush draws) for example. Wouldn´t we bet small there first as well to lure in lower pairs with our AA7x?

Alternatively what would a large bet accomplish? Why would we choose large bet over small one on this particular flop with a 7 blocker? Large bet most likely makes the Villain lay down his/her KKxx etc etc

Remember not to implement SRP or 3b strategies into our 4b strategy.

4b pots are very different with very condensed ranges.

For example we either check, b20 or b100 in 4b pots where as in the other game trees we have anywhere from check, b33, b50, b66 and b75 along with b100.

On dry boards in 4b pots we have to think of what our range wants to do. While we have a ton of AA, we also have some misses in theory. We still pot with those as we have such a AA heavy range. It forces our opponent to make mistakes such as folding KK.

Betting smaller would be to exploit our opponent somehow but if we have loose aggressive Bob who is too sticky with his hands and calls off with any equity on the board if he thinks he has enough (remember the player profile we were provided) we can exploit him by condensing our value range and raising bigger for value while simultaneously increasing our bluffing range but bet smaller for bluffs. Why do we do this?

Well if he’s too sticky with the weak portion of his range that connected to the board we can bet bigger for value with our top end portion but we don’t want to bet the middle of the road like top top because we aren’t pushing enough equity. If he just folds the portion that missed without any resistance we can bet a large range for small bet to force the folds from that portion for very cheap which allows our bluffs to be super profitable as he won’t be bluff raising.

So with AA we can bet big here on the flop to get value from his portion that hit the flop. Any straight draw, pair plus draw, or even KK as if he’s too sticky, he’s more likely to call with KK on the flop as opposed to turn/river where ranges get even more condensed and you can correctly fold hands as weak as just 1 pair.

Boards we bet small in 4b pots are A hi boards and we can only bet b20 on a few of those as our range is so strong on them as the 4bettor.

How does this change for different stack depths? Obviously we need to account for the fact that ranges will look a little different, but just wondering - is this a heuristic you're applying for this specific stack depth, or 100bbs in general?

100bbs

At 200bb and higher we switch from b20 to b33 but keep the check and b100

Deviations would be to exploit for a particular reason.

presumably that scales somewhat linearly between 100 and 200, as do ranges?

would you adjust those sizes as deviations to exploit the specific reads we have on villain, i.e.

'Bob is loose aggressive and generally sticky daytime rec. Definitely 3bet too wide in many spots. Likes to have a wide range and hit/represent on flops that are clearly worse for the aggressor than the defender. Willing to commit to high variance choices if he thinks there's some equity to justify it. Probably values equity and board coverage more than playability.'

Just to clarify, b100 means pot, right?

Yes b100 is pot.

I speak a lil to why we still pot on this board in the past posts, as villain profile is LAG and sticky. He should have more pairs and SDs than he should here along with more KK and other overpairs. If he is sticky then he has less propensity to fold those and given the fact he has more of them in theory, we can bet larger with our value to capture the increased EV.

If the player profile was loose passive and overfolds or doesn’t put money in unless he has the nuts or super nutted draws, then the exploit would be to bet smaller to keep his weaker hands/draws in.

I don’t see how we can exploit someone who is too sticky, by betting smaller. It gives them a better price to call and allows them the opportunity to make less of a mistake as less equity is required to call smaller bets.

Someone came into this thread guns blaring acting like an emotional clown of a prick towards others ranting about theory in a thread about exploits. Then had to back track. And has written at least 4 different narratives since then. The latest attempt is to hold on for dear life to the word "sticky" and disregard the other 200 words in original post describing Hero's full hand strength and Villain's other traits besides "sticky." Seriously I stopped counting when the narrative conveniently changed for the fourth time.

Well fellow readers, check or bet 1/3 pot here or bet pot. But buckle up for a wild ride in about 11 days when the emotional clown runs out of medicine and is back to derailing threads like a condescending prick again.

Can someone just quote this guy who’s obviously been hurt by someone somewhere, tell him he’s right and I’m a huge asshole, and make fun of me so he can move on and feel validated?