Israel/Palestine thread

I think you didn't understand me completely. Regarding Israel's obligation to respect the ceasefire - there is no question, and if Israel violated, it is serious. It turns out that we did not really violate the ceasefire, but responded to the firing from Iran, but that is not the essence.
Just a clarification regarding the ceasefire - when they set a time from which the ceasefire goes into effect, it means that the war continues until then. These are the laws of war, unfortunately. By the way, I have been in quite a few such cases, and I tell you as a soldier in the field, that this is the scariest thing there is, going on an operation when there is already a ceasefire in a few hours. But that's how it is in any war, at any time, not related to Israel or Iran. It's ******ed, but that's the reality.

The "I don't care" position has nothing to do with this. It is only related to our obligation to act against an existential threat and attacks on us, only. I explain again that we do not have the privilege to deal with public opinion, when there is a threat to us.

Regarding the other things, I completely agree with you and I have already made that clear.

Please give me a different rout

Israel of course cares how they look. But it is a choice of evils. It was determined The Axis was the more immediate and existential danger. You cant claim the moral high ground if you are dead.

Many people, even ones generally sympathetic to Israel, argue that Israel is generally too paranoid. But I am not sure reality and history actually justifies the position Israel is acting too paranoid.

I think there is some disconnect where much of the liberal world that hasn't fought a war on their home turf in generations has a poor understanding of what has actually been going on in the Middle East since the late 1800s.

Israel isn't infallible and picking a side doesn't mean you blindly accept every action They do. You're also disregarding that Israel's leader is a self serving possible sociopath and not a reliable source of veracity and could well be lying his self serving ass off to stay in power as long as possible.
I find it pretty hinky that Iran warns Qatar Iin advance before their strike then agrees to a ceasefire then promptly breaks it, risking an end to their regime in the process. They may be nutty theocrats but that doesn't mean they're stupid. In this very specific instance it's actually in Israel's interest to continue hostilities. So as someone who supports Israel you'll have to forgive me if I take their claim in this regard with a hefty dollop of salt.

Most people who aren't bloodthirsty, revenge-driven freaks would say that 57,000 dead civilians is a rather large number (plus a few hundred more in Lebanon and Iran). But I can see how, for you, it's nbd.

Blue is viewing this as a strategic victory without seeing the big picture. None of this would even have been close to possible without US support, and thus Israel's paranoia is a major strategic miscalculation.

Iran's goal is to grind Israel down Algeria-style, taking advantage of their wish to live a normal first-world lifestyle and the fact that the majority of Israelis have multiple passports to overcome their massive military superiority. If we look at what happened in Algeria, relatively few French died in the process, and yet Israelis seem to believe that the goal is actually to slaughter them rather than make life miserable until they leave, leading them to lash out in ways that actually make Iran's plan feasible (i.e. diminishing US support until they are defunded or potentially embargoed).

In other words, by going to extreme measures to create deterrence, Israel is actually doing what Iran wants.

Dude, just no. I cant share all intel I've seen, but we do actually share many documents that set forth the strategic plans of the "axes of resistance". You are making up a reality.

I will explain soon. Cant today. the information is still secret, but they felt they had too and were under a lot of pressure to do so, because of what we achieved the day before

IDF demographic data shows 377,000 Gazans are missing.

And you don't know what "Orientalist" means.

Grant Palestinians a state or citizenship.

source: trust me bro

the cope is strong

cant remember if you are on my ignore list, or not :-)

Ah. So their warning Qatar in advance and accepting the ceasefire and proclaiming so officially was just a cunning ruse eh? And they felt they had to even though they've apparently no defence against retaliation but just did so anyway because they had to?
...Okay.
I eagerly await your explanation which you can't atm give due to the info being secret. In other news, I'd no idea your real name is apparently James Bond.
Hopefully you can give it tomorrow. Or perhaps in two weeks as a certain POTUS likes to say ad nauseam...

Never mind, if you dont care to discuss you dont have to.

No hard feelings

this is a very passive-aggressive forum.

but love you all

I'd like an explanation. You claim you can't give it due to it being top secret, so if anyone is unwilling to discuss things, it seems to be you. Is this now your excuse so you won;t have to provide an explanation? Or will you explain? Eventually??

Seems like grok is confused too re the ceasefire violation btw. I wonder if it was hacked by Iran...

Iran's behavior towards the United States is completely different from that towards Israel. Even the last time the United States attacked Iran (the assassination of Soleimani), they announced the response in advance and coordinated it, because they don't want a front against them.

It's completely different against us and that's the main gap in your perception.

Regarding the secret information - there was an attack by the Mossad yesterday. It was very successful. I'm not James Bond, I simply served in a unit that part of it accompanies the Mossad in operations abroad (transportation, rescue, and such).

Unfortunately, it's not allowed to say yet. But from what I was told, because of the success of the operation (which was very, very successful), the Revolutionary Guards exerted tremendous pressure to respond.

Okay then thanks for that, but I'm still not sure who to trust or believe here. Yet again there were no casualties in this alleged ceasefire violation from Iran. So maybe take a step back from the abyss, yeah?

Okay smarty pants, tell us what Orientalism is.

Why would you be given access to secret info about a current Mossad operation if you're a former serviceman? Does the IDF just hand out operational info like candy?

I've written to you a million times that I agree with you. I can't even understand what the argument is about, except that you're implying that they didn't actually fire missiles, and I'm telling you with all my authority that they did. How do I know? I saw them. They fired towards the Ramat David base, which is quite close to my office.

Sorry, from your group I only respond to Vic.

Cant bother with people who cant argue respectfully

That's easy, it's Nic Cage as Fu Manchu

I'm not saying they didn't, I'm wondering if it was before or after the ceasefire. And again despite rules of war you both should have honoured it the second you agreed to it. So I don't know if it was a last attack before the ceasefire kicked in and from an objective pov it still sounds hinky. And Bibi's government isn't the most reliable source. And you can't blame me for being sceptical here within such a context, sorry.

in Israel time, the ceasefire started at 07:00, and the alarm from the missiles went off at 10:30

Okay then. I'll look into this more. Still beggars belief the IRG would pressure a violation when they've precious little defence against retaliation, so something's not adding up here. We leave it at that, for now.