Turned a baby flush multiway and thankfully it looks like the only flush. River value?
$3/$5 9-handed NL, $10 mandatory utg straddle.
This is not my usual cardroom, so I don't know the players. I've been at the table for 2.5 hrs, not winning many hands, down $600. Max buy-in at this table is $1500. My table image is tight and maybe nitty.
Effective stacks are $1300.
V - 40's Asian male, has been playing tight and straightforward
Utg $10 straddle
Utg+1 limps (very loose, passive player)
V in LJ raises to $30
H in HJ calls with 6s5s (small raise amount, and there has not been alot of squeezing in this lineup)
B calls (loose, but otherwise solid 70's white male)
SB calls.
Utg+1 calls.
5 handed to the flop.
($150) Ks Js Th
Utg+1 checks.
V bets $55.
H calls.
B folds.
SB calls.
Utg+1 calls.
($370) Qs
Utg+1 checks.
V checks.
H bets $380.
SB folds.
Utg+1 folds.
V tanks 25 seconds and calls.
($1130) River Ks Js Th Qs Qc
V checks.
H?? ($835 left behind)
Preflop is whatever, but on the river I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze. An entire class of hands just beat you, and virtually nothing you beat is paying you off. Check behind and curse him under your breath when he shows you Qx 10♠.
Preflop is bad. Baby flushes don’t have enough value to call because they get beat by better flushes, and you face uncertain spots like this one on the river. Maybe open raise with 65s in the CO or BTN as a bluff but never call. I’m not even completing the BB with 65s.
AP just check back. Only a better flush or a boat calls your shove.
i disagree with a lot of these disparaging comments about 65s . its borderline from hj , but not that bad, and from other positions like BB, its a snap call
on river i think you can still get value from an ace and maybe kt/kj would look up a small bet , i think you can bet like 300 and fold to a jam
I agree, I think it's borderline, and often I quickly muck 65s in such a situation preflop. But I think it's good to occasionally play it, and play it carefully.
Results:
Spoiler
I bet $300, and he snap called me. I showed my hand and he mucked.
i disagree with a lot of these disparaging comments about 65s . its borderline from hj , but not that bad, and from other positions like BB, its a snap call
on river i think you can still get value from an ace and maybe kt/kj would look up a small bet , i think you can bet like 300 and fold to a jam
PF is bad but river is definitely a bet, lot of posters very bad for thinking this an easy check. We potted the turn, a lot of 2 pairs just fold to that size bet. He can have some Ax here for sure. Especially given the small PF sizing, flop sizing and calling turn most of his range actually is Ax.
River I think something like $380 again is quite good.
River bet for sure, would go 425$ and fold to a shove; going all in shouts big hand thats a no no, and youll red flag the fish on not being able to bluff the river enough no more, it being true or not is inconsequential because as long as he thinks you might be bluffing some of the time you good
Dont listen to the nerd saying oh be scared of Q10 thats bonker.
The guy saying that the preflop call was a huge leak might be unto something real. Perhaps the best play was to fold preflop.++ The reason im putting so many maybes here is because of the implied odds and table dynamic, which justifies a call. The unlikeliness to get raised, the 10$ straddle puffing up the fish, makes this a very tasty pot for a predator like me that dont mind folding this hand 8 times postflop to get a similar situation as it happened. But yeah, the preflop fold is sure a strong move as well, perhaps the best in other situations like this but not exactly this one.
The raise pre is no bueno. Reason being the straddle, too many calls, fold equity is too low to raise 6 high
Sorry brav I am checking back that baby flush you don't want to get re popped if you go $400+ and he makes a giant river bluff or worse and your hand has way more then enough show down value. My greed here wouldn't win the day and yours shouldn't either what can he possibly be calling with at 400$ not much but the butter nutter or worse putting you to the test. Be elated to take the pot down when you know you most likely should have folded pre!
H in HJ calls with 6s5s (small raise amount, and there has not been alot of squeezing in this lineup)
($1130) River Ks Js Th Qs Qc
V checks.
H?? ($835 left behind)
So the plan with the 666th nuts is to bet $425 and then fold for $410 into a pot of $2,390?
To be clear ... we'd need 17% equity to call.
I understand betting thin on the river is often good, but this feels like street poker ... where V shouldn't bluff much because we are always calling, but then it turns out we are betting almost everything and folding a bunch so he should probably bluff everything that is a marginal call.
Then there's the fact that if we actually somehow have QQ/KQ or something, roughly 0% of posters would say we'd want to bet half our stack on the river. So it's not even like a normal block bet where we can be balanced with nuts.
I can just see Stupidbanana or luz4ggro or whatever seeing this one hand at showdown pulling out his phone and making a note "reshove 100% range vs. small river bets vs. fish in HJ"
Moving backwards from there: I think turn bet is too big, we still have 3 V's and what are we targeting for calls? Esp. if the "thin bet river" people are saying all 2 pairs are folding turn. We are only slightly better than an A ... and As shove is, again, very tempting if anyone knows we are betting this much with this little (and if you think at least SB or LJ never have like AsTs/As4s here, lol).
Then backwards ... flop is kind of understandable for the small size, but we are still praying that: 1. nobody raises flop. 2. We hit a non-T spade. 3. None of the other 4 players has a better flush.
Even if everyone else folds and the turn is like 7x and V checks ... wtf do we do?
H in HJ calls with 6s5s (small raise amount, and there has not been alot of squeezing in this lineup)($1130) River Ks Js Th Qs QcV checks.H?? ($835 left behind)
So the plan with the 666th nuts is to bet $425 and then fold for $410 into a pot of $2, 390?To be clear ... we'd need 17% equity to call.I understand betting thin o
Totally agree especially when we have no business being in this hand from the start.
Great points, illiterat. I was hoping someone was going to bring up river stack sizes.
Me, I don't hate the pf call, this deep, and trusting that no one is squeeze happy. H has to get through an army of Vs though to see a flop. And when we do, it's really not to play for the flush value.
Seeing KJssTx is not happy-making at all & I'm already kicking myself for the pf call plus the flop call I hate making vs bet 33%. H has terrible relative position here and is drawing really thin.
For me, the hand comes down to, on the Turn: First, what are we trying to do with our bet? Fold superior flushes? Will they? Make it very expensive for broadway one-spade hands to draw? We're not getting calls from disbelieving straights or 2P hands from this size. OTOH, we get raised, we can lolfold happily.
Second, what are we thinking about V, the main aggressor from the start of the hand, actually tanking when the flush comes in as well as a ton of straights? But then they call??! And the board pairs on river? I gotta think we're no good, and I'm happily taking the opportunity to x-back.
V has to be a pretty huge fish to call us down with Ax, but it is live poker, so he probably will.
Speaking of which, our massive turn bet is a huge overplay, but it might work fine against live whales.
So the plan with the 666th nuts is to bet $425 and then fold for $410 into a pot of $2,390?
To be clear ... we'd need 17% equity to call.
Oh no, my plan is much more elaborate than that. My plan is actually to fold for 400$ more, get up, get out the casino, and then go buy weed and whiskey, and buy ice cream to a beautiful girl and have 300$ on the side.
Also, dipshit, im a better poker player than you, so stfu okay.
And to the other dipshit, dont ****ing lie to me.
****ing dripping liquid gold into the mouths of bitches.
You reading me is a privilege, it is 20 ****ing years of poker. Dont take what I say out of the context of what im saying to prove yourself right, that's disgusting.
I could talk more about the theoretical poker hand if villain shoved (which he didn't anyway), but **** you.
I think you have an issue with tilt.
Oh yeah minimizing my valid emotions, well **** you too.
Who the **** are you, the three musketeers of toxicity, licking eachother's butt so you can all be together smelling like ****, well go ahead! Go hang out with you little gang of dysfunctional ****ing bitches, see how well that goes for you.
Anyway, enough talk, time to put my feet down and enforce boundaries now, im outta here.
Grunch:
PRE - think we need to 3B or fold hands like 65s. They suck to play multi-way in high SPR pots.
FLOP - yeesh. Even with our FD, I'm not loving it. The ranges we're probably up against include better draws, 2P+/sets, and 1P + a draw. Doesn't seem like we've got a ton of equity here. I hate folding a FDFD to a 1/3 pot bet, but when we're next to act in a multi-way pot and the board smashes a lot of our opponents' ranges, I think I might.
TURN - this bet seems unnecessarily huge. I'd probably make it 1/3 pot and fold to a raise.
RIVER - just check back. No worse hand calls a bet here.
Just read the rest of the thread. All I can say is, "wow".
