[extracted] New(?) 9-11 stuff

I dogwalked Deuces and a couple of other hardcore truthers on this forum like 10 years ago or something. I think I'm done with that phase of my life.

Hi Deuces,

Have you read "Crossing the Rubicon" by Michael Ruppert? I thought it was interesting. Don't know how much is true, but remembered thumbing through it back in the day.

I mean, I'll be direct and say that I think the 9-11 conspiracies are some of the craziest **** of them all. But others, not so much.

The whole thermite thing is just insane. It's literally Aluminum and iron (basically old fashioned rust) mixed together and Steven Jones reportedly finds some red and grey chips in the dust that react energetically when heated but hasn't been reproduced by any independent, peer reviewed study? Those remnants are literally the aftermath of a collapsed building.

But it's simpler to think that the preparation of something this grand on a random building, to at the very most, stoke fear in the populus to lead us into a war when they could have just gone to war anyway without this insane level of theatrical nonsense to justify it? That's the best case, it completely crumbles from there.

I have zero interest in trying to change your mind. I just enjoy the philosophy of conspiracy theories, and the fun of talking about them, but I'm going to skip to the final chapter real quick. Conspiracies are the product and a means to make money and I'm sure that you can admit that there are plenty of conspiracies that really are full of ****. The more complex something is...the moon landing, JFK, 911, Covid, The illuminati, the easier it is to build an argument against it.

But people need a reason to believe, whether is anti govt, anti science, anti capitalism, or to feel a sense of belonging or a specific hatred towards something. But who is going to want to break away from those ideals in the first place just to change their opinion on something.

You think Bush and Co are going to infiltrate multiple levels of government and military use to perform a demolition on a random building in NY to push through the Patriot Act or to convince folks to go HAM on the ME? There really are more interesting theories we could talk about, Deuces.

Do you think it gets simpler when you throw in the two towers and the Pentagon?

Pretty sure that the craziest thing that you think could be possible is a mystery team of guys planting bombs inside the WTC, synchronizing the detonation so it blows up at exactly the same time another mystery team of guys flies a plane into the WTC, bribing dozens of top structural engineers to look the other way, and keeping the whole thing covered up for decades.

I'm pretty sure they killed him. In Pakistan, I believe. Few years back.

Yeah like nanothermite and holographic planes to hide missiles hitting the Pentagon. And all Joos being warned in advance not to turn up to work that day because Joos. And all the other things that don't sound like a batshit nuts conspiracy theory.

Nah it's based on evidence.

Oh I don't blindly believe them, I simply don't think claims of an inside job based on pseudo documentaries such as Loose Change hold any water, or sounds plausible, credible or believable.

I'm flat out positive authorities have lied before and will lie again in the future. I just don't think they're lying about 9/11. I genuinely do think a bunch of religious nuts did it and that's based on the available evidence we have on the matter.

I do think it supports it. But that said, you're correct in the sense that it's nice to be nice and I shouldn't resort to expressing such opinions in a derogatory manner...even if a part of me really wants to. You're entitled to your beliefs and opinions. But I would have to reject said opinion as I don't find it credible or supported by evidence.

An underrated bit of comedy here is that the conspiracy loons don't think an AQ terrorist would be capable of flying a plane into a building the size of the goddamn Pentagon. Secret nanothermite and holograms and drones, sure, but international terrorists learning how to fly a plane? Absurd.

from today...

ROFL at "the overwhelming majority of subject matter experts who have published on this topic are in agreement with me."

just no

Why is it that the conspiracy nuts are also trumpers?

Anti-science.

Yes I do have a copy of that. There is a lot of good research in there pertaining to the series of events unfolding on the day of the attacks re the real time military response timeline. I do use it as a reference and a pointer to sources. You pretty much have to have it to get a total sense of what happened because there aren't too many efforts to synthesize and cite so many sources on specific subtopics. And such efforts on the internet are subject to censorship.

While I like his framing of the attacks as a crime to be investigated (and as a former detective he does understand the elements of that), I think overall the scope of the book is way too ambitious and cannot be ingested as a thesis as Ruppert intended. He goes into peak oil theories etc. He does tend to draw out a lot of insinuations based on mere connections and I don't think that style of analysis is always useful. He's a little too obsessed with Cheney. Still, it's a great book for it's framing, it's meticulous citing of sources, and collecting relevant sources on subtopics into chapters.

Making simulations whose data is kept secret (and not peer reviewed), NIST's tactic to add some scientific veneer to the official story, is worse than anti-science - it's deception.

As I've said before I love thinking about the SWAT detonation prep teams that come in at night, open the walls/ceilings to plant the explosives/thermite/magic dust then return the space to exactly how it was prior to their work 100% undetected by anyone and paid off to never speak of it again.

I'm sticking with Romulans.

Nothing that a few bricks of gold pressed latinum can't fix

Right. Guys that had never flown jet airliners before managed to fly into not one but three buildings with pin point accuracy on the same day after hijacking said airliners without anything going wrong, and without being detected, in the most tightly controlled airspace in the world. Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds?

I don't subscribe to the nano-thermite theory by the way.

Because conspiracy theories are fun and Trumpers like fun. Unlike you miserable libtards. :p

Yes, people who have never flown before can learn to fly airplanes, and to fly those airplanes into large buildings.

Deuces

There is a substantial difference between the admin pushing through a mutually beneficial perk with the media in something like promoting WMDs and re wiring a global military enterprise to blow up a building for support - regardless of the fact that blowing up a building in downtown NY would probably be the best way to lose the support.

I can assure you that at least during that round about time in history, the military operated with immediate responsiveness in the same way that an algorithmic machine would execute its trades involving securities.

They aren't going to say "hold up, lets first see how the San Franciscans would approve." Or "lets put this on the back burner for now and blow up a random building in NY before we engage in this operation." They don't give a ****.

I don't think Bush or Cheney had anything to do with planning 9/11. I do think there were some people in key positions in government who were facilitators. There were credible threats made against Bush on 9/11 in ways that only insiders could make. That's why they flew Bush to the middle of the country.

For motivation, the amounts of money that went one way instead of another in response to the attacks us unfathomable. I think that many people don't really understand the nature of a certain psychological class. You think everyone has limits to what they would do for money. But not everyone does. You do, and you think others are like you, But they aren't. It's funny that some nutty conspiracists posit that elites are reptilian shape shifters. While that is obviously complete nonsense on a literal level, is there any grain of truth to it? Why lizards or reptiles? It's because the reptile is cold blooded and totally without empathy. The nutty conspiracy theory functions as an insightful metaphor.

As to the plans, they were complex and involved whoever made them. Rigging buildings in some novel way or infiltrating the U.S. with 20 people dumb enough to kill themselves in some hair brained scheme? Which one is simpler? Say it was AQ. They have to get their people into the U.S. from Saudi Arabia and a few other places. They have to coordinate with them. Finance them. Keep them from just say F it I like it here I'm going to rat out my co-conspirators for a chance at asylum. In other words you have to maintain a motivation strong enough to get 19 people to take their own life in a violent way. Have you ever had to hire people? It's not easy to predict who will do what. Not everyone is going to work out. If one didn't work out here it's a ton of wasted money and time. How did they even vet these people? What contact did they even have that we can prove? This would be extremely difficult for any outfit, a multi-year infiltration ending in a mass suicide mission and in the middle has flight training. I mean, flight training? On small prop planes? That's not terrorism that is theatre. Why would you learn to fly prop planes in the U.S. of all places? It's narrative construction. Come on man, can you not see what a con job looks like after 24 years to reflect? Would you walk up to the prop tree in a middle school play after the performance and be surprised there is no edible fruit hanging off it? Whatever mechanism they used to rig it would most likely explain all the molten steel pouring out of the South Tower. Maybe all they had to do was get some thermite in there and pour it into the some contained space in the structure. Maybe the towers having the same construction made them all susceptible to the same simplified rigging. It doesn't necessarily have to be that difficult whereas managing 19 personalities in some long play infiltration would be an impossible nightmare.

It's a small known fact that the Venn diagram of "people who have never flown airplanes before" and "people who know how to fly airplanes now" is basically a circle.

*and turn the transponders off
*and navigate an expansive instrument panel you've never worked before after getting control of the plane with your adrenaline spiking
*and not be distracted by thoughts of your impending death
*and navigate through the sky to your destination because in your jihadist mind it's not enough to kill people you've got to get symbolic with it
*and not be intercepted by military jets
*and keep the passengers in line somehow without guns
*and make in flight path adjustments which are beyond human capabilities
*and not chicken out
*and hand fly huge commercial jets at incredible speeds when you can't even qualify for a flight equivalent of a learners permit because you suck at flying
*and erase what muscle memory you have of practicing on your smaller and way more maneuverable planes you're used to

"I've only flown small planes and I sucked at it. Then I got into a commercial jet plane, navigating to a precise location, and then hit a building slightly wider than my wingspan going 550 mph, all inside a tense terrorist hijacking scenario" would be a good Holiday Inn commercial if people weren't so sensitive.

^^