President Donald Trump
I assume it's still acceptable to have a Trump thread in a Politics forum?
So this is an obvious lie - basically aimed at
Do you have some competing theory that you are offering against the idea that people are part of the kingdom animalia?
Do you have some kind of disagreement with the taxonomy proposed by biologists and paleontologists?After all you seem to accept that "animal" is some kind of relevant biological category, but you are adding an extra part of th
If all persons are in fact "animals", then it is obviously silly to find it offensive to call a fellow man an "animal."
For now, I'll concede the point that all people are "animals" (for taxonomic purposes) as long as we agree that it shouldn't be thought offensive to call someone "an animal."
This is already granting too much, actually. If he rejects evolution, then the category of "vegetables" should be similarly nonsensical to him, as the same process that gave rise to vegetables is what gave rise to animals.
Huh?
I reject Evolutionism (i.e. Macro-Evolution), but I firmly believe that there is a distinction between people, animals, vegetables, and rocks.
I think I can see the reason you don’t have much of a street following. Well, one of them anyway.
If all persons are in fact "animals", then it is obviously silly to find it offensive to call a fellow man an "animal."
For now, I'll concede the point that all people are "animals" (for taxonomic purposes) as long as we agree that it shouldn't be thought offensive to call someone "an animal."
Not really. All people's mums took a creampie but it would be pretty rude to point that out in a public setting.
Actually I think you are underestimating the malice part. Western society has created a myth where the white South Afrikaner is an avatar for evil, with no hope of redemption. And this is generational for perpetuity, and the fact none of these people were even alive during Apartheid, much less complicit in it, is completely irrelevant.
perhaps, maybe it's just a know a good dozen white south africans irl and they are all super chill people so i'm physically removed from the apartheid bias - which now, looking back on it, i'm pretty sure i poked fun/negatively judged at first a few of the early ones i met regarding that
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Gotta be honest. Looking at the official ANC response, one begins to get worried this is actually much more than the political stunt it looks like.
Anytime communists start talking about equality, justice, and accountability for **** thst happened before any of us were born, everyone should be getting very nervous.
i admit i did lol a little at the concept of offering white south africans refugee status
but i figured it was possible given what took place in other parts of africa previously
but still hard on "lol" side of things
but then npr (all i listen to while driving) did an interview with a south african official and i was surprised to see npr taking the pro refugee stance on this despite that their earlier coverage dealt with the episcopalians not happy about it
they weren't pro in the sense of supporting them, they were pro in the sense of the south african official regularly maintained that the whites were better off than the blacks and the reporter pushed back with "so then why are they leaving?" and the official... maybe it was lost in translation or culture... but just gave such a "f those guys they've been historically way better off than we were and they are just being a bunch of babies" which definitely conveyed an attitude of open hatred for the whites, this again coming from a top level gov official
wtf are you going on about. There were South Africans (white) and those whose heritage was Afrikaner. It was easy to tell them apart from their dialect. Are you saying I've never met the ones that trump is letting in? Well, duh. But I can certainly attest that the people I worked with that identified themselves as Afrikaners, and they strongly identified themselves as such
are you genuinely claiming to have deep insights into the inner workings of the minds of people who you sat in on a conference call with in a group of 20 people once a week?
i admit i did lol a little at the concept of offering white south africans refugee statusbut i figured it was possible given what took place in other parts of africa previouslybut still hard on "lol" side of thingsbut then npr (all i listen to while driving) did an interview with a south african official and i was surprised to see npr taking the pro refugee stance on this despi
Would you have the same feelings if a white Republican said that Black people that complain about oppression need to care more about rap music and gangster culture? Not saying I agree with the politician, just pointing out that just because there are insensitive politicians that doesn’t show a problem actually exists.
Just as an aside, I definitely think SA would benefit from new leadership, and it’s not just a white issue. If we offered black South Africans refugee status they would likely take it as well.
i have a deep and tangible lived experience of living in the united states and intermingling with blacks regularly
no amount of random government official buffoonery could sway my opinion on race relations in the united states
i have very little experience with south africa so when a government official sent out to a pr blitz in reaction to recent events then goes and spouts off some buffoonery that buffoonery both feels very official and is basically all i have to work with on this issue so it changed my opinion quite a bit
i know that apartheid was a full generation away so anyone alive now and young enough to be a decision maker was not in power during that time
if we can forgive japan, germany, turkey, belgians, brits, americans, cambodians, canadians, indonesians, french, spanish etc etc etc for all of their transgressions of the past then why are we still holding hatred to white south africans, who didn't do even a fraction of the atrocities other long forgiven groups have committed?
i have a deep and tangible lived experience of living in the united states and intermingling with blacks regularlyno amount of random government official buffoonery could sway my opinion on race relations in the united statesi have very little experience with south africa so when a government official sent out to a pr blitz in reaction to recent events then goes and spouts off
By your own lights, it is possible that the politician has his own internal knowledge that is inaccessible to you such that it justifies his comments about South Africans.
And as far as I’m aware, the Japanese and Germans are still feeling the effects of WW2 which was much further in the past, and during a similar span of years probably felt the effects more intensely than White South Africans ever did.
i know that apartheid was a full generation away so anyone alive now and young enough to be a decision maker was not in power during that timeif we can forgive japan, germany, turkey, belgians, brits, americans, cambodians, canadians, indonesians, french, spanish etc etc etc for all of their transgressions of the past then why are we still holding hatred to white south africans
It happened much more recently and during more enlightened times, so we expect countries to know better than to impose racial laws and prevent black people from voting. Jim Crow was repealed in the 60s but it took SA another 25 years, a whole generation, to repeal apartheid law, and then only after sustained international pressure and boycotts had forced SA into isolation.
japanese still celebrate people who committed atrocities as war heroes with their top leaders visiting the site to pay homage to them annually and do things like keeping the train that rode the death railway in a museum, not as a "look at the terrible things that we've done" but "look how quickly we built this railway, aren't we special"
there's good reason why the us has not allowed japan to rebuild its military and garrisons it to this day, but hey they make pokemon and bukkake so all is forgiven
japanese still celebrate people who committed atrocities as war heroes with their top leaders visiting the site to pay homage to them annually and do things like keeping the train that rode the death railway in a museum, not as a "look at the terrible things that we've done" but "look how quickly we built this railway, aren't we special"there's good reason why the us has not al
This actually hurts your point, not help it.
Macroevolution = speciation
Grouping together clades or kingdoms or phylum implicitly requires speciation.
Macro in this case would be at the "Order" and higher levels of classification. Speciation would be micro-evolution in the parlance he'd use, and is what would be happening at the Family levels and below.
It's fairly easy to show the principles of evolution at the Family level, because plenty of those animals can technically breed with each other. Much less intuitive and observable above that, and the layman explanation provided to people who balk at it seems to be, "If you just sprinkle some time-dust on it and don't think about it too hard, it just works."
I wouldn't spend any time arguing it further, because nobody wins and you'll just add 400 posts to the thread's already bloated count with no satisfying ending. Maybe the painting had a painter. Maybe the full works of Shakespeare could actually be reproduced if you gave enough monkeys enough typewriters. Both are unprovable matters of faith with our current levels of mastery of the universe.
This isn't about forgiving a group of people for past whatevers. It's the fact that trump and his racist cronies are aggressively going after brown people in this country while accommodating white people.
This isn't about forgiving a group of people for past whatevers. It's the fact that trump and his racist cronies are aggressively going after brown people in this country while accommodating white people.
Yeah, that whole slant is kind of hilarious. "Apartheid South Africa" is only in modern lexicon because people love to bring up the Musk diamond mines.
Very few people are trying to hold white South Africans accountable. Like, maybe the Jalfrezi's of the world.
Some of us just don't like white nationalism
It's fairly easy to show the principles of evolution at the Family level, because plenty of those animals can technically breed with each other. Much less intuitive and observable above that, and the layman explanation provided to people who balk at it seems to be, "If you just sprinkle some time-dust on it and don't think about it too hard, it just works."
Holy Christ, you're stupid.
Macro in this case would be at the "Order" and higher levels of classification. Speciation would be micro-evolution in the parlance he'd use, and is what would be happening at the Family levels and below.
So you believe that in 6 thousand years, the amount of speciation that has happened would account for the different orders, but deny that over hundreds of millions of years, this would not account for the different phylums and clades and kingdoms?
What exactly do you think is happening when we say “microevolution”?
It's fairly easy to show the principles of evolution at the Family level, because plenty of those animals can technically breed with each other. Much less intuitive and observable above that, and the layman explanation provided to people who balk at it seems to be, "If you just sprinkle some time-dust on it and don't think about it too hard, it just works."
I wouldn't spend any time arguing it further, because nobody wins and you'll just add 400 posts to the thread's already bloated count with no satisfying ending. Maybe the painting had a painter. Maybe the full works of Shakespeare could actually be reproduced if you gave enough monkeys enough typewriters. Both are unprovable matters of faith with our current levels of mastery of the universe.
Is your argument that because you don’t understand it, it must be a matter of faith?
Even if I granted you that no expert has ever successfully conveyed the arguments for macroevolution to a layman, that doesn’t mean that those arguments don’t exist. In fact if it was so easy to “debunk” evolution, the discovery institute would have done so instead of continually falling flat on their face in response to basic criticisms from science communicators (not even scientists themselves).
How could the accumulation of small changes over billions of years result in large changes? Must be some magical fairy dust involved or something.
They've looked at the Shakespeare monkey stuff and figured out that there isn't actually enough time for that to happen.
They've looked at the Shakespeare monkey stuff and figured out that there isn't actually enough time for that to happen.
Is there enough time for Winnie the Pooh?
japanese still celebrate people who committed atrocities as war heroes with their top leaders visiting the site to pay homage to them annually and do things like keeping the train that rode the death railway in a museum, not as a "look at the terrible things that we've done" but "look how quickly we built this railway, aren't we special"there's good reason why the us has not al
Meh, I dont really think that is a very good reason, or even the actual reason. I suspect the real reason Japan has not been "allowed" to re-militarize has to do with geopolitics with other Asian nations, namely China.
Most cultures celebrate historical figures that would be considered monsters by current western moral standards. And you could make an argument plenty of current figures are just as monstrous as those of the past. There is no real rationale consistent "reason" why some individuals or even entire groups of people are vilified and others given a free pass or even celebrated.
It is all very in the moment, arbitrary and political.
