Aces out of position 4 bet pot
Hey guys
I had a hand which brings up question on how do we want to play our aces oop deep.
10-25
I'm utg with aak9 ds raise to 50 , in order to induce a reraise or go multi way with 2 nuts suit.
Utg +1 raises to 200 . Button calls .
Gets to me i raise to 800 , only utg calls.
Utg+1 is a tight good solid player . We are both with around 8000 stacks.
Flop T74 rainbow , 1 backdoor to our suit .(1800)
Our hand is not connected to the board in any way , and pretty face up .
Do we want to bet here for protection?
We both check
Turn 2 rainbow
Checks again
River 3
Goes again checked and we're good.
My question is , in this situations when we're pretty much face up , in what situations do we want to bet for protection / value ?
If we bet the flop , we pretty much checking on every card which didn't bring our flush draw , and some opponents can really put us into the test , and we don't want to play a big pot with a single pair , right ?
20 Replies
I think this is played fine. You realized all your equity pre and post.
Flop is good. A T can check raise us with impunity here and force us to fold our equity.
We can bet this turn as it’s effectively a dud and we can also bet this river as well as cards below a 5 don’t interact with a 4b range however I’d argue it’s only to protect our non AA 4b that need to bet to force a fold from better made hand villain 4b calls.
I wouldn’t worry about this hand in particular it seems well played.
I'd probably bet the turn as we're very likely good and could get called by some worse and are unlikely to be raised given he'd be repping 222. While we're faceup, this turn makes his hand face up as 'worse than ours' unless he did a sneaky checkback with 789T or better. Which is.... not impossible, actually, but I think most of the time he just has little equity and can't call the turn, or has a hand that wants to see a river but not bet, like KQJT. Guess I bet 750?
We're oop
what would you do on any bet from vilain on F / T / R ?
Hey guys I had a hand which brings up question on how do we want to play our aces oop deep.10-25 I'm utg with aak9 ds raise to 50 , in order to induce a reraise or go multi way with 2 nuts suit. Utg +1 raises to 200 . Button calls .Gets to me i raise to 800 , only utg calls.Utg+1 is a tight good solid player . We are both with around 8000 stacks.Flop T74 rainbow , 1 backdoor to
So first, betting for protection is a bit of a myth in plo. We bet for two reasons - to generate value or to deny equity.
Imo anytime the word "protection" comes to mind it might not be a very efficient bet (bit of nuance though).
It all comes down to how our range performs vs our opponent's range on the texture in question. This flop doesn't hit our range hard, you're right, but it doesn't hit a tight 3bettor's range much as well given us still a healthy range advantage moving forward.
As for preflop when we're super deep we can consider putting some of our weaker AA into our flatting range for both range protection as well as often better realizing our eq.
Would definitely start going for value on the turn (probably 1/2 pot) and would probably block river for a small sizing blocking A5. Villain just won't have enough straights by river, nor two pair in their tight 3b range. River prob closer but definitely think we need to start extracting on the turn.
Vs flop bet prob fold w/o a double bdfd for myself. In a x/x flop line and turn goes x/b I'm always peeling as I'd expect my opponent not to delay much flop value and the 2 doesn't weaken, nor strengthen their range enough.
Again in a x/x flop line I'm still calling river. Just a terrible board for our opponent's range imo.
My focus personally wouldn't be on....how do I play my hand when it's face up?
It would be...how do I not make my hand face up
So first, betting for protection is a bit of a myth in plo. We bet for two reasons - to generate value or to deny equity.
Imo anytime the word "protection" comes to mind it might not be a very efficient bet (bit of nuance though).
deny equity aka protection😃
Honestly I would just call the 200 raise - you keep your hand disguised and when you're OOP this deep this will not be easy to play against better players. Here you go to the flop with a tough SPR and the villain knows you have Aces - very easy for him to play optimally. If I was him I'd bet the flop fairly wide and continue as most turn/rivers will be very tough to call down on. As played I would bet the turn - it's clear you're ahead at this point and he decided to play this passively. There's really only 1 street of value here at best - luckily he is a passive player that let you showdown for free.
Either don't have a 4b range in this spot or widen your 4b range.
edit - betting for "protection" is equity denial - you can call it whatever you want but it's the same concept.
A+
What do you think the difference is?
Yeah I really like the idea of having people in my games who 4b wider than aces. They're so easy to play against. You can always just put them on a range of aces and some other hands when they 4b.
What would be a better flop than this, that doesn't contain an ace or flush stuff?
If you're not planning to bet this sort of flop, you probably shouldn't 4bet oop
Gentlemen, haven’t read the thread but just as FYI be on lookout for dudes spreading nasty rumors that betting for protection isn’t same as equity denial.
I'd bet one of flop or turn.
This flop the k9 gives just enough interaction to stab imo.
The key point is utg+1 range isn't smashing this flop, there are far scarier textures for us.
Mixing between check, half-pot and pot on flop seems mostly fine I'd guess. As played, would put in a chunkier turn bet for value. River x seems fine, and calling at aome frequency.
Without any history, a post sized 4-bet UTG is going to be interpreted by strangers as drastically weighted towards aces.
So it sounds like your advice is "do not 4-bet AAxx until you've shown previous 4-bets with weaker hands".
Let's imagine hero calls the 3b out of position. Does he get more value from c-betting a bricked out board, than he would get from tripling the pot preflop, and shutting down post-flop?
What would be a better flop than this, that doesn't contain an ace or flush stuff?
If you're not planning to bet this sort of flop, you probably shouldn't 4bet oop
What do you think about a delayed c-bet? either to see how villain reacts to the flop, and/or to try to see a turn on the cheap.
