AQ 4-bets and gets two customers
1/3 NLHE 8 handed
Table is deep and has a maniac and two whales, one semi-locked down. It's a really good game if your value holds up. All draws are being chased for any price, cold opens to 20 going 4 ways.
V1 - Plays full time for what I imagine is a very bleak living. I used to think he was good when I was learning the game but now I think he's actually pretty bleh. Not sure if it's because I got better or he got worse. Overall he's a quasi-TAG that clicks buttons. He also has a major weak-tight tendency and makes hero folds, especially preflop, regularly. Often incorrectly. He can fold KK to a nit 3-bet minclick for instance. His view of me is that I'm fairly tight. His view of V2 is that he's an absolute fire hose for money and FOS. He also clicks buttons a lot and I've seen him call 3-bets OOP with hands like 63s and 97s, even for an up-front RFI. So he's sort of an undisciplined TAG make around 2-4 BBs/hr I guess. 1200$. SB.
V2 - Said fire hose. Maniac. VPIP 95%. Will call any size with anything suited or connected. Loves to bluff and take aggressive lines with any equity. When played back at he will always call down so you can't just shove it back in his face with some combo draw, you have no FE. 740$. BB.
HH w/ V1 - V1 opens UTG, H 3-bets TT from LJ for 3x, V1 folds AQo face up.
HH w/ V2 - V2 double straddles, UTG+1 fish blind calls 12, H sees QTs from HJ and makes it 50, only V2 calls, HU IP to T-6-5r V2 checks I bet 60 call, turn 5, x x, river 9, V2 bets 150 I call, he has 98o and my top pair holds up.
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Folds to me in UTG+1/MP who sees A♠ Q♥ and opens 10, LP fish calls BTN, V1 to 40, V2 calls 40, I 4-bet to 200, BTN folds, V1 and V2 both call. 3-ways IP.
Flop 610 - K♠ Q♠ 6♥
V1 checks, V2 donk jams 540...
20 Replies
Since you needlessly bloated the pot preflop, you might as well call the maniac's shove with middle pair and backdoor draws with an SPR <2.
I assume that was the plan, amirite?
I'd snap off v2 here - not really close imo.
Why are we 4betting V1? Just to run him over?
I probably click call just to get in pots with the maniac.
This is probably a fold. Might call if it were headsup. V1 is still yet to act, he has a lot of AA/KK/QQ/AK hands that are never folding a million years. Sure he'll fold his tt/JJ/AQ type hand that's about it.
The first raise was fine. The 4-bet was just spew.
1/3 NLHE 8 handedTable is deep and has a maniac and two whales, one semi-locked down. It's a really good game if your value holds up. All draws are being chased for any price, cold opens to 20 going 4 ways. V1 - Plays full time for what I imagine is a very bleak living. I used to think he was good when I was learning the game but now I think he's actually pretty bleh. Not sure
Assuming we believe your reads; V1 sees you as fairly tight and will fold hands as good as KK to a 3-bet from a perceived nit and already folded AQ face up to a 3-bet from you what do you estimate his calling range is vs your $200 4-bet? How does your hand and flop do vs that range? V2 is simply why V1 sees no reason to bet regardless of how well or poorly he flopped as he knows the flop will be bet and if you hit anything you'll gladly get stacks in vs V2. The only hand I place in V1s range as you describe his play vs tight players you beat is possibly JJ whereas you are behind QQ+ and AK.
easy call
v1 should jam aa/ak/kk pre - at best he flats qq here a small frequency (does he have any kq suited?) - but OP is also ranging for v1 for lots of junk so we can't fold even if we give him bad combos of Kx
other villain is a maniac so hero hand is too strong to fold at this spr, and we have equity when behind
I don't 4bet; as played, I call this guy -- too strong to fold. Let's hope V1 wasn't "trapping" w/ AK or KK. I hope you get some read from him?
I think the 4b is fine provided V1 3bs wide and calls all your 4bs wide - at live 1/3 people play super exploitable so this can be very good or very bad. We also have v2 - need to know how wide he calls 40 with. 3b/4b/etc can always be correct if there's an exact reason for it - calling will be the lower variance route and sometimes the best route.
I’m not folding to this guy, especially with the Ace of spades as an escape hatch.
Why is V1 still in this hand? That’s a lot more concerning than V2’s shove. I think if we jam we can get V1 off AK or AA but not sets. That’s just my assumption based on what you told us about how V1 perceives us.
I wouldn't 4B pre. As played I'm probably folding flop.
I think 4bet here is really good. V1 3bet size is pretty small (and therefore more likely be weak) and V2 has ATC. 4bet-fold to a V1 jam has to be better than calling, no?
That being said, I think folding this flop versus a maniac shove is really bad, even with V1 behind. How much Kx does V1 even have? Doesn't AK just GII pre?
After reading the spoilers, wtf is V1 doing? You got owned by the maniac and V1 got owned by both of you.
His 3-bet is x3 +1...seems pretty standard.
V1 will squeeze wide with fish call from the button. Add in a cold caller and 4bet seems good, maybe mandatory. Folding would seem a bit tight, and calling would be awful.
Probably calling flop although it's close; is V2 only doing this with a King? You have backdoors. If this is only Kx+ then it's a fold.
V1 will squeeze wide with fish call from the button. Add in a cold caller and 4bet seems good, maybe mandatory. Folding would seem a bit tight, and calling would be awful.
Probably calling flop although it's close; is V2 only doing this with a King? You have backdoors. If this is only Kx+ then it's a fold.
V2 is doing this with all the JT, all spades and maybe AsTx AsJx (but I have As).
Pre is fine. Nifty, in fact. I always love a good play that's a bluff against one player and value against another. Then again, clearly the bluff doesn't actually work, so maybe the reads are problematic...
I think I would just fold flop in game, but the LLSNL blob actually has me doubting myself.
Obviously it's snappy snappy heads up, but V1 will have us crushed a lot here too. It's a bigger mistake to incorrectly fold than incorrectly call, so I'm willing to change sides on this.
FWIW, it's bad to hold the As here. It only adds like 3% equity for us while blocking wholly 10 combos of bluffs from FDs alone.
