Was this a bad calldown vs a rec? Donk lead into 3 others + shove OTT
Hand from a live $2/$5 cash game. I sit with ~$600. One player limps, I raise to $25 on the BTN with KJo, both blinds and the limper call. So we go 4-way to the flop.
Flop: K♦ T♣ 4♠ (pot ~ $95)
SB (a loose passive rec) donks $60, BB and limper fold, I call on the button.
Turn: 6♦ (brings backdoor flush draw)
SB instantly jams for ~$155 into ~$215. I tank and call. She flips over
K❤️Q♦️ and I lose.
Now here’s where I’m unsure:
• This player had been block betting small when weak earlier in the session (like $10–$15), so this $60 donk into 3 players felt unusually strong.
• On the turn, when she jammed, I thought she could still have worse Kx, maybe even Tx or spazzy airballs… but in reality, recs rarely bluff in this line.
• I felt like I was too high up in my range to fold, but maybe it was an exploit spot where a fold is better.
Was this a punt? Should I be folding flop or turn against this player type?
Would love to hear thoughts from people who’ve been in similar spots.
9 Replies
I don’t think it’s a punt. I think w/KQ it’s an easy call and K9 is an easy fold. I think KJ is the inflection point. Probably find a fold OTT but for ~$150 it’s kind of a whatever spot. V probably plays weaker K’s the same.
I don’t think it’s a punt. I think w/KQ it’s an easy call and K9 is an easy fold. I think KJ is the inflection point. Probably find a fold OTT but for ~$150 it’s kind of a whatever spot. V probably plays weaker K’s the same.
The shove was actually PSB so ~$215. Would that change things much?
Depending on reads etc. I think KQ is the inflection point vs. most people, on the flop.
Unless they are donking constantly/randomly they aren't donking KJ nevermind K9 ... so you have to hope they have QJ (which KQ/KJ both block) or some other draw/weirdness enough to counter the KQ/AK/K4/KT/44 which you are crushed by.
It's all personal though given that a solver isn't ever donking here. Some people will donk a stupid amount and you have to adjust.
I probably fold turn, but it's a tough choice. It's screaming Kx at worst and I'd be surprised if they have a worse king than us. The rest of the possibilities are two pair and a set of 4s. So not feeling great about it.
"• On the turn, when she jammed, I thought she could still have worse Kx, maybe even Tx or spazzy airballs… but in reality, recs rarely bluff in this line."
IDK, when people start with 50ish bbs, I see spazzes all the time. I'd say it is more overplaying thin value than a "bluff". I wouldn't be at all surprised to see this story end with "then she turned up K9, K5, QJ etc." When I see short-stacked players in a rush to gii, my thought is more that they hit a piece of the flop than that they are necessarily strong. I think recs in general overplay thin value when they are short-stacked.
Now if she had been sitting there playing disciplined on a short stack for 5 hours, maybe this is a fold. If she was donking then jamming a full stack, it's a fold. But it is probably one of those spots you can be pretty indifferent about. Call for the variance, fold if you want to play lower variance. I certainly wouldn't consider it a punt. I think a decent chunk she shows up with worse.
Yuck.
I might actually fold flop when she donks out for 2/3 pot into 3 opponents. Definitely folding turn.
