RFK - Make America Healthy? again?

RFK is making a national registry of autistic people by pulling that information from private medical records. Trying to remember when else in history a government made a registry of disabled people in the name of public health… Hm.

You might want to rethink what you are saying...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/30/health/covid-deaths-children/index.html

CNN

Covid-19 is a leading cause of death for children in the US, despite relatively low mortality rate | CNN

"Covid-19 has become the eighth most common cause of death among children in the United States, according to a study published Monday.

Children are significantly less likely to die from Covid-19 than any other age group – less than 1% of all deaths since the start of the pandemic have been among those younger than 18, according to federal data. Covid-19 has been the third leading cause of death in the broader population.

But it’s rare for children to die for any reason, the researchers wrote, so the burden of Covid-19 is best understood in the context of other pediatric deaths."

Here is another article on a study

"Results There were 821 COVID-19 deaths among individuals aged 0 to 19 years during the study period, resulting in a crude death rate of 1.0 per 100 000 population overall; 4.3 per 100 000 for those younger than 1 year; 0.6 per 100 000 for those aged 1 to 4 years; 0.4 per 100 000 for those aged 5 to 9 years; 0.5 per 100 000 for those aged 10 to 14 years; and 1.8 per 100 000 for those aged 15 to 19 years. COVID-19 mortality in the time period of August 1, 2021, to July 31, 2022, was among the 10 leading causes of death in CYP aged 0 to 19 years in the US, ranking eighth among all causes of deaths, fifth in disease-related causes of deaths (excluding unintentional injuries, assault, and suicide), and first in deaths caused by infectious or respiratory diseases when compared with 2019. COVID-19 deaths constituted 2% of all causes of death in this age group.

Conclusions and Relevance The findings of this study suggest that COVID-19 was a leading cause of death in CYP. It caused substantially more deaths in CYP annually than any vaccine-preventable disease historically in the recent period before vaccines became available. Various factors, including underreporting and not accounting for COVID-19’s role as a contributing cause of death from other diseases, mean that these estimates may understate the true mortality burden of COVID-19. The findings of this study underscore the public health relevance of COVID-19 to CYP. In the likely future context of sustained SARS-CoV-2 circulation, appropriate pharmaceutical and nonpharmaceutical interventions (eg, vaccines, ventilation, air cleaning) will continue to play an important role in limiting transmission of the virus and mitigating severe disease in CYP."

Where "CYP" is Children and Young People.

My personal conclusion is that antivaxxers are causing unnecessary deaths in their own children much like what is happening now in the US with Measles. I personally don't care when an antivaxxer dies from something like Covid or measles. But I do care when their children die. In some states they revoked the religious rights of parents to not vaccinate their children in order to protect the children from stupid parents. I wish we would revoke those rights in all states. Well I guess after RFK Jr. is no longer in charge...

by Mr Rick m

You might want to rethink what you are saying...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/30/health/covid-deaths-children/index.html

CNN

Covid-19 is a leading cause of death for children in the US, despite relatively low mortality rate | CNN

"Covid-19 has become the eighth most common cause of death among children in the United States, according to a study published Monday.Children are significantly less likely to die from Covid-19 than any other age group – less than 1% of all deaths since the star... See full post

You might want to try to understand that my claim is that the above you linked is completly in bad faith and totally corrupt attempt to immensely overestimate the insignificant impact of covid on minors, a truly terroristic way of doing "science" that contributed among many other such attempts to destroy faith in "science" among the population.

We got told for a long while that excess deaths where the thing to monitor, because a ton of people died without a test in the early stages and we couldn't anyway pinpoint precisely when and if someone actually died of covid or not, only THEN to be told that even absent any excess death in a subdemographic (like for children everywhere in the world), death "with covid" as determined arbitrarily by people who got paid more if they found covid as a co-cause of hospitalization (yes, there were significant financial incentives to do that in the USA and in most other first world countries) children died a lot.

Not a single italian or french or german or spanish or american etc etc under 30 died more than usually in 2020, which is what proves, beyond any reasonable doubt, the disease was utterly insignificant for those demographics.

The exact cutoff changed country by country (in italy it was 45, in the USA it was much lower at 30-33), yet the under20 , actual minors, never died in excess anywhere in the world, ie the arrival of covid on net didn't cause the death of a single minor worldwide.

"but what of those kids who died of respiratory failure and positive to covid then!" one might ask. Well those are the exceptionally fragile who would have died almost certainly anyway of something else which is why you check excess deaths and not actual "deaths while positive".

Because covid fully displaced the flu and the flu killed >= kids than covid, basically. The arrival of covid actually *saved children lives* by displacing the flu.

ah so the mandates DID save kids. I knew it!

Luci, you are a smart guy but you need to see when you're wrong sometimes. You are a dogmatic ideologue who is far worse and more uncompromising than those you accuse.

Covid did not completely displace the flu. Both still exist. What a nonsense contention. It's even possible to have both at the same time.

What’s your basis for “healthier”?
Life expectancy? Way up under vaccines.
Being fat? Has nothing to do with vaccines.
Being depressed? Also nothing to do with vaccines.

Can you list off all 70 shots? I have a feeling that number is made up

Got a chart from our pediatrician last week and I count 23, with 18 within the first two years, although a couple of them are combinations and a couple are oral administration, so like 20 total shots in 18 years.

Doesn’t include annual flu. Or COVID!!!!!

Even if it was 71 - why is that like inherently bad? What’s the “right” number supposed to be?

No , the flu disappeared even where there were no lockdowns/mandates of any kind.

But nice try.

It is possible the flu disappeared because south-east asia locked up completly from the rest of the world, and basically all yearly flu strain originate there and then get spread to the world. Just a possibility though, we aren't certain yet.

What we know for a certainty is that covid displaced the flu everywhere in the west independently of DPIs

It did for 2 seasons completly.

I guess you like cherry picking data.

The death rates for young children has gone down in the US (and industrialized countries) basically every year since 1920. It has been more gradual in the past 25 years.

I am attaching reports that have graphs for each year since 2017 in the US that show the death rate increase/decline vs the prior year.

Here is 2017: Kids 1-4 death rate went down by 4.0%, kids 5-14 death rate went up by 1.5%, 15-24 went down by 1.2%
Here is 2018: Kids 1-4 death rate went down by 1.2%, kids 5-14 death rate went down by 2.2%, 15-24 went down by 5.1%
Here is 2019: Kids 1-4 death rate went down by 0.7%, kids 5-14 death rate went up by 0.1%, 15-24 went up by 0.5%
Here is 2020: Kids 1-4 death rate went down by 0.6%, kids 5-14 death rate went up by 0.3%, 15-24 went up by 14.5%
Here is 2021: Kids 1-4 death rate went up by 2.3%, kids 5-14 death rate went up by 0.6%, 15-24 went up by 4.7%
Here is 2022: Kids 1-4 death rate went up by 3.0%, kids 5-14 death rate went up by 1.0%, 15-24 went down by 9.4%
Here is 2023: Kids 1-4 death rate went down by 0.7%, kids 5-14 death rate went down by 0.6%, 15-24 went down by 2.7%

So in 2021 kids 1-4 years old death rate went up in a way it hadn't basically since 1960. 2021 was the year the Delta variant of Covid hit and as you noted in your posts the Flu basically affected nobody. Similarly in 2022 where the death rate went up again significantly. In 2023 even though the death rate went down by 0.6% it was still 4.6% higher than it was in 2020.

For kids 5-14 the death rate did go up three years in a row 2020, 2021, and 2022. This is very likely a direct result of Covid as it is rare that that happens.

For people 15-24 years old the significant increases in death rates happened in 2020 and 2021. Even though it went down 9.4% in 2022 the death rate in 2022 was still 10% higher than it was in 2019. And again it went down slightly in 2023 but still was significantly higher than it had been in 2019.

Like, do people not realize how many germs your immune system deals with every single day? Is 20 shots over 2 years supposed to overwhelm the immune system or something?

lol, how does this even work? The flu tries to infect someone but COVID is like, "go away, we're fully booked here?"

that the flu basically disappeared in the west the first 2 years of COVID is uncontroversial

(only horridly bad faithed people like gorgo can deny it)

even the ultra leftist pro lockdown scientific american reported on it

now they claim it was NPIs causing it, my counter is the flu disappeared in Florida (and other such places) as well where we know for a fact there was basically no rules in place since September 2020 .

to which u wait the answer by Christo and others.

Flu cases disappeared because social distancing and masking works exactly the way Fauci and every responsible health official tried to tell you they do. It wasn't "displaced" by COVID, you absolute moron.

Some of them think that. Flu didn't spread in the first flu season of the pandemic because the mitigations we did for covid were effective enough to reduce the R(0) of flu below 1. It wasn't displaced, it was just controlled by the mitigation policies the right mostly opposes. Every flu season since then has been significant, of course, because flu still exists and we aren't mitigating anymore.

"Flu was displaced by covid" is one of the dumbest ideas ever uttered. Covid is more contagious than flu and therefore its R(0) requires a lot more mitigation to reduce below 1. That's it. That's the tweet.

Reference for above, for anyone interested:

Takeuchi H, Kawashima R. Disappearance and Re-Emergence of Influenza during the COVID-19 Pandemic: Association with Infection Control Measures. Viruses. 2023 Jan 13;15(1):223. doi: 10.3390/v15010223. PMID: 36680263; PMCID: PMC9862942.

"In mid-2020, most countries analyzed had high levels of infection control measures, and in most countries, influenza was drastically reduced compared to previous years. Multiple regression analyses compared the study data with data from other seasons. There was an association between high mask use with low influenza detection in all three remaining seasons, an association between a low social distancing index (low mobility and more social contact obligations) with a low influenza detection rate in two seasons, and a marginal significant association of high stringency index with a low influenza detection rate(in 2020-end-seasons). These results support the notion that seasonal influenza is controllable through effective preventive measures, especially those of mask use and human social contact, and these measures should be recommended during future waves of novel influenza virus infection."

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PM...

Not that this really needed a study because its obvious to anyone with any basic epidemiology education.

you back yourself into quite the logical corner here with this one dude. if opining is all youre trying to justify, opine away. but as far as the reliable construction of a system that ACTUALLY WORKS, you would be in disagreement with anything that would serve a "greater good" simply because you are unable to comprehend the reasons why a system that 100% of the time benefits you would be a fucking disaster.

the question: how were you personally damaged

your "answer" : me and my family were damaged.

not sure that answers exactly without intentionally obfuscating or distorting facts/truth/objective reality. but sure, go off king.

I got the %'s wrong for 2019-2023 (2017 & 2108 were actually %'s in the report). The numbers I had given for 2019-2023 were death rates per 100,000 people not %'s.

Here are the % increases and decreases:

2017: Kids 1-4 death rate went down by 4.0%, kids 5-14 death rate went up by 1.5%, 15-24 went down by 1.2%
2018: Kids 1-4 death rate went down by 1.2%, kids 5-14 death rate went down by 2.2%, 15-24 went down by 5.1%
2019: Kids 1-4 death rate went down by 3.0%, kids 5-14 death rate went up by 0.7%, 15-24 went down by 0.7%
2020: Kids 1-4 death rate went down by 2.6%, kids 5-14 death rate went up by 2.2%, 15-24 went up by 20.8%
2021: Kids 1-4 death rate went up by 10.1%, kids 5-14 death rate went up by 4.4%, 15-24 went up by 5.6%
2022: Kids 1-4 death rate went up by 12.0%, kids 5-14 death rate went up by 7.0%, 15-24 went down by 10.6%
2023: Kids 1-4 death rate went down by 2.6%, kids 5-14 death rate went down by 3.9%, 15-24 went down by 3.4%

So basically the death rate for kids 1-4 went up 22.1%. overall in the first 4 years of Covid (2020-2023).

The death rate for kids 5-14 went up by a total of 17.5% in the first 4 years of covid (2020-2023).

And the death rate of people 15-24 went up by about 33% in the first 4 years of covid (2020-2023).

Much more massive increase of death due to Covid than I had originally posted. It is significant because previously over time the death rates for children had gone down.

There is no greater good and it cannot be defined. A system that works is a system where you are allowed to fail and succeed on your own, and where politics doesn't set ANY society goal ever, it never plays the game as a player, but exclusively only as a REFEREE, and everything that happens depends on the choices of private citizens without the help of state violence.

There is no "us"; only people force against their will to cohabit nearby. Social welfare doesn't exist. There is no social welfare function and none can be defined (see Arrow, Debreu).

There is no "greater good" than individual freedom. Life is worthless absent freedom anyway and if you aren't willing to die for your own freedom you don't deserve either freedom or life to begin with.

My utility function internalizes my family. If you hurt my family you hurt me. I am not an atomized individual in marxist hell. I am a normal person so I AM MY FAMILY and MY FAMILY IS ME. I am a cog in my family ancestry and blood tree.

The unit in society is the family not the individual.

Just another hard-core libertarian fallacy. Ho hum.

It's not a fallacy, at most it is a value proposition you reject.

Well, if you ignore other factors and use the risk of death as your criteria the "right" number is zero. The risk of death from the vaccine is greater than the risk of death from the disease in every case according to the stats in this chart. Source of the data which includes a 446 page judicial report is provided with the chart.