I check-raise XXY flop from BB but then realize I rarely have trips
1/3 NLHE 9 handed
Table is a mix of loose passives, a nit and some weak tight players. It's okay. We're on autopilot and up slightly at 850$ from 500$. In BB.
V - Older white guy that has an above average game. He's definitely loose passive pre, postflop he has quite a few tendencies. He can read the board, can bluff sometimes but never seen him triple barrel or bluff multiway. He reads the board and understands relative hand strength and so on. With his value/premiums he uses large sizings, especially on drawy boards. He check calls with his draws except his mega draws which he might check-raise at some frequency. He's been running hot tonight and is up. Covers. CO.
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V opens over one limp to 15, we see 4♦ 5♦ and call in BB, limper folds, HU OOP.
Flop 30 - A♥ A♦ 5♥
Check, V bets 15, we make it 85...
18 Replies
Since it seems like such a ridiculous play to c/r this flop versus a preflop EP raiser when you have a hand with showdown value, it would be really helpful to know how the villain views you.
if your play is correct, im guessing if you have A5s or 55 here the play is here is to just jam flop, Ax is never folding and everything else is no matter how much you CR.
What the ****ing **** ****?
We are multiway. Both villains could have an ace here.
Sure this is gonna get through some of the time, but it seems a complete over play.
we are not MW
I don't absolutely hate this to deny equity to all the unpaired hands as well as some pocket pairs. Can't help feeling that you're likely to get bullied off the hand if you just call (or would lose to a better hand), while folding would seem reasonable. Not sure what the best play is but I'm not sure the CR is as bad as others are saying
Grunch:
PRE - flatting seems fine. Wouldn't hate a 3B to $60 here. But if V is loose passive pre, and we think that means his raising range is stronger, perhaps it's better to just flat call.
FLOP - interesting line. I suppose it's better than donking out. I wouldn't expect it to get through very often. If V come over the top, obviously fold. Be careful about over-committing to a flush draw if a diamond hits the turn.
Overall, if V continues, I'd be very leery of barreling off. We can't really love it if another 5 or 4 comes, so really we're hoping to go runner runner to make a flush, or preferably, a straight. Conceivably we could rep hearts here.
The x/r size would be fine for value. Seems a smidge larger than needed for a bluff. But probably okay if we get a few more folds from over-pairs to our 5's.
I would fold preflop. Could occasionally 3!.
FWIW, how is being up $350 considered "up slightly"? If you have a very good winrate of 10 bb/hr = $30 hour, that would mean you've been sitting at the table for almost 12 hours (on average). I'm just noting because I find it an odd thing to say regarding expectation. Anyoo.
I doubt calling going HU OOP to the flop versus a guy with an above average game with 5 high in a raked game with almost no dead money is profitable. I fold preflop.
Actually not sure what I would do on the flop. Would I ever check/raise any Ax I got here with? I probably wouldn't, though maybe I should be. We certainly do put Villain in the blender, although it's not exactly with a hand that has much equity either. Although we could also be ahead and protecting our equity (although risking a lot to do that).
GcluelessNLnoobG
I don't hate the call. We're 280 bb deep, might go MW, let's see what happens. 54s is about as low as I'll do this though, and I'd prefer 65 or 76s. OTOH, it's CO v BB with an earlier limper. Probably 3! here to 60, if I didn't feel like folding.
AP, I don't think you play the absolute top of your range this way, (55/A5, assuming you don't 3! A5) and I think V opening has more aces period, than you do calling OOP. Think a thinking V either calls, or more likely raises here.
Also, for the 85 you put in here, you probably could get to see turn and river for less. 15 to call, Turn pot's 60. V is really going to bet 70 or more at you?
So, not how I'd do it, but I always love reading your posts, and I learn a lot from the discussion.
I don't hate the call pre, but I do hate the raise size on the flop. Not sure I raise period, but if I do, $50 accomplishes the same thing. Why would you raise so big if you actually had an A?
If he calls, I'm done.
I like it in theory, but if you're trying to make KQ and JJ fold, $50 should do it.
Result:
Spoiler
He 3-bets to 215 and I snap fold, he shows K♥ 9♦
Spoiler
It's not hard for a competent villain to know that you don't have Ax here.
It seems like an exercise in leveling. If we had Ax, how would we play it? Most likely slow, thus making the fast play an awesome line for value when V has a hand he can't readily fold. If V can get to that level, and he can find a fold, then this becomes a good line as a bluff. But overall it's so unnecessary to go down these rabbit hole parts of the game tree. Credit to V for showing up and calling BS.
If V can get to that level, and he can find a fold, then this becomes a good line as a bluff
However, winding back to preflop, the Villain knows Bananaman likely isn't calling from the blinds with AXs. If Villain himself has AX, he's never folding because he knows he has the stronger Ax.