Cbet or not, as 3b’er 4 ways

Cbet or not, as 3b’er 4 ways

$1/2 NLHE. H is on 6th hand. I don’t know any of the 3 V’s which is unusual, but it is Saturday night. Table is very rec heavy and I don’t get the vibe that there are any sharks lurking. H hasn’t VPIP’d and have seen no hands of note.

OTTH
V1 HJ opens for $15, CO & BTN call. H in SB looks down at AhAs. H has $298 and is a 40’s WG. BTN has like $250. Other 2 have like $300. H makes it $65. V1 and BTN call.

Flop $210
Th9s9h.

H is first to act with $233 behind. Is this just a shove with SPR 1 or are we only getting snapped by better. H blocks NFD. Also with board paired A’s need less protection so can I check and rep AK?

Unfortunately I don’t really have a smart range analysis for either V.

H? To clarify it is 3 ways post flop.

20 April 2025 at 01:37 AM
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14 Replies


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Raise more preflop. Like I might go a bit bigger if one of CO or BTN called, when both do I'd be going 85 or even a bit more.

On the flop I'd bet 65 (preflop) or 70 (third pot), extra points for checking your hand like you are making sure you have AhKh) and not folding without amazing reads.

Shoving mostly isn't great IME, the hands that are most likely to call (JJ-KK) will almost always shove over a small bet or call it and call the rest on any turn, but sometimes people can find folds here if you just pile it in on the flop to start.


by illiterat

Raise more preflop. Like I might go a bit bigger if one of CO or BTN called, when both do I'd be going 85 or even a bit more.

People really do just say that no matter what size the 3’ is. 65 is more than enough. Maybe 70, but that’s fine.

You don’t want them all folding either. You’re creating a low SPR pot either way and you don’t want people folding to 75+.

As far as the flop, you can go maybe 1/3 like standard to mask the strength of your hand and jam turn and give villains a tough call if they didn’t pick up equity. Maybe try something like 50 to induce a raise.

The problem with betting small is that the board is connected. But the problem with ripping it is that you don’t want to scare people away. Unless they have the 9 you’re not getting called by anybody without it or a huge combo draw. If it’s low SPR you’re never folding regardless of what comes out OTT so just try to get it all in. You were ahead PF and you’re probably still ahead.


I would just shove on the wet board. You could be shoving any overpair like JJ, as well as a draw. It certainly would be the play as the preflop raiser with a flush draw or like QdJd to just shove as a semibluff. I would want to allow another card cheap. What if it's a heart or J/T/8?


Grunch:

PRE - the $15 open seems huge for 1/2. Is that normal here? If not, and we think it's a sizing tell, we should consider raising bigger.

Regardless, I think we should raise bigger anyway, at least to $90 (6x), when we'll be OOP and there are three opponents who've shown interest in the pot. I wouldn't hate making it $100.

FLOP - I think checking multi-way and OOP is fine. See what happens. Let either V stab with Tx or any draw. No need for protection, and the pot is big enough that all the money could be going in no matter what we do.


by the_dessert_guy

People really do just say that no matter what size the 3’ is. 65 is more than enough. Maybe 70, but that’s fine.

Probably because it's often wrong? Very likely the biggest 3bet mistake I see at live 1-2 is not going big enough relative to the pot/players/position when they are super unlikely to have any bluffs and are just making the obvious calling mistakes cheaper.

There's $48 in the pot when it gets to us in the SB, we are OOP to everyone and the opener went 7.5bb (huge) and got two calls.
How often are you 3betting A4s? ATs? KJs? 99?
Would be enough to make a mental note if I saw anyone have a 3bet/fold range in this spot, and even then I'd expect it to be like QQ/JJ or maybe AQs that made a hero fold.

$65 isn't as bad as $45, but it's still not good. And we got two callers.


by the_dessert_guy

You don’t want them all folding either. You’re creating a low SPR pot either way and you don’t want people folding to 75+.

It's hard to argue with winning 24bb ($45+3) rake-free without a flop.


I'm okay with it. I can check here 3-ways. We're never folding with the Ah in our hand. Stacks go in easily. If one of them made trips then oh well.


by Stupidbanana

I'm okay with it. I can check here 3-ways. We're never folding with the Ah in our hand. Stacks go in easily. If one of them made trips then oh well.

Yeah, I kind of like a check and then we can usually checkraise allin. Don't like bet small.

Yeah, you are about 13% against trips with the bdnfd.


Only thing with check is it might get checked through. They could be worried you have an overpair and that someone has trips.


Reasons to check:
If either player will stab a draw too often.
If either player will bet 77 too often, esp. for too much.
We have Ah, so it's not too bad if a heart hits the turn.
AA with Ah is probably the best one pair hand to check.
Maybe we don't want to bet all AK?

Reasons to bet small:
88/77 can't check back to realize equity.
88- might only ever put more money in if they hit a two outer (so it's a 5% negative freeroll).
QJ/J8/87 esp. have a lot of equity, and KQ/76 have decent equity but both can often check back to realize.
Turn hearts are still bad, as it'll look stronger if we bet or scarier for others to bet if we check turn.
It's better (or less bad) to call wide pre. if there's more chance that you can see four cards for that price.
The flop is very likely the best time to stack anyone postflop, as any turn AKQJT876 make the board scarier for most other hands unless they hit. The best way to make that happen is to start by betting.
If we check and a V bets and we shove, it looks scarier. Imagine V has JJ or KT/QT/JT it's harder to fold vs. small bet flop and shove turn than vs. check/shove flop.
I'd probably want to bet all AK here, and see how they respond with 77/etc.


I would x/f AKo 4-way on this wet flop. On some dry flops you miss, you could bet/fold or maybe shove AK.

I still think open shoving the flop is best with AA, and any overpair or decent draw.

If we were deep with this hand and flop, then definitely, check/reevaluate would be best.


I'd go bigger pre from OOP vs. this many callers. At least $75, but more like $100.

As played, shove is good. If they have it, they have it. Too many draws to bet small or check.


Rest of Hand

H checks as he feels hand doesn’t really need protection and can easily GII on 2 streets. Checks through.

Turn $210
Th9s9h Qh

Not the best turn but not the worst. Lots of hands that may pay me now that would have folded OTF.

H leads for $65. V1 folds. BTN shoves for ~$205 total. H makes easy call of $140 into $480.

BTN has AQ, river bricks and H scoops.


Nice hand. Well played.

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