1/3 4bet pot how to play?
1/3 9 handed
V1 ~ stacks 250ish? Supposingly we've played before, I don't remember, it was too long ago. He still remembers me stacking him on river check/shove.
V2 ~ stacks 600+, young asian. Assume he's tag/lag but haven't seen nothing super crazy. Seen him 2barrel then feint shove out of turn on river 44478 w/tt but his opponent donked out and he shoved after. Supposingly he did the feint shove before vs the same opponent earlier on the night.
Hero covers, has been actively 3betting. Taking it down on flop/turns.
Preflop
V2 straddles for 6
Hero in UTG+2 opens to 15 with AhKd, Mp calls V1 in sb calls, V2 in straddle 3bets to 35???
Hero 4bets to 100
V1 calls????
V2 calls
Pot 318
Flop QJ8ddd
All checks to hero???
I butchered this hand in game. I was having monster under the bed syndrome.
13 Replies
Not sure you were having monsters under the bed syndrome. You've put in the 4bet (fine, to try and drive people out and get it heads up) and when the flop comes down the monsters aren't under the bed, they're breathing down your neck.
You might be able to drive out all the pairs/Jx/even some Qx with a small bet now, but this texture is pretty terrifying, if the fourth club does come you don't have the nuts. I'd probably check.
Your first raise pre is a little small, and I'd probably 4bet to $125, but no biggie.
Check the flop. It smashes them. It might smash you, too, but we know it didn't -- and they aren't folding much unless they totally whiffed, which I doubt.
Ok hero checked back
Turn 2d
V1 bets 20
V2 calls
Hero?
How to get more money in, that is the question. Pop it to $60 - $100? It's a tough one, but I doubt they raise w/o the Ad, but will they call w/ a worse diamond? Or a straight (doubtful) or two pair?
If they will fold to a raise w/ anything we beat, maybe call and evaluate river, but I hate leaving $$$ on the table.
Not folding the second nut flush for 20 here. The problem with a raise on the turn is that be best the villain can have is a T high flush that you beat. Unless you have been showing a lot of bluffs, he's folding unless he has the ace.
quick question is V2 a tag or a lag? the slash insinuates an either or but those are wildly different assumptions we draw when understanding. if unknown or lack of info maybe just say: not sure if loose pre but definitely agro post or loose pre and somewhat agro post etc ... just define it a little more maybe in the future even if that definition is by way of uncertainty about conclusiveness of read.
check flop, call turn, raise / GII on river.
i guess you could push turn but you're likely to pick up some extra bets if SB leads river and V2 calls its even more likely you have V2 beat and im just not folding 2nd nuts to a sub 100bb stack. I like shoving over any bet or just shoving when checked to just for the polarization and let them level themselves into thinking youre bluffing after checking back turn etc etc.
I'm more inclined to take this line with the A of flush but again, sub 100bbs im getting the K high in there.
Ok
Turn 2d
V1 bets 20
V2 calls
Hero call
Pot 378
River 2s
V1 checks
V2 bets 100
Hero????
Turn I would call. As Venice points out, the beat flush you beat is Ten high. If you go over the top, is worse calling often enough? That said the bet is tiny so I suppose you could bump it up.
River, had you faced a bet and a raise, I'd have considered a fold.
Nobody has shown much interest in the pot and the bet of 100 could be a cheap attempt to buy the pot. Not loving the fact that V1 is still to act but I might call here.
The board's pairing is gross. This is the guy who 3bet pre, so QQ/JJ are squarely in his range. This looks so value-heavy, too. It's really difficult to fold here, but with so few reads it's probably the best play. In game I might sigh-call, though.
Spoiler
In game Hero folded.
V1 calls fairly quickly w/99 with 1 diamond
V2 shows TJhh???????
In retrospect, I think we could've raised the turn. V1's range didn't matter, his stack was so shallow. V2 shouldn't have Ad on turn. If V2 calls our raise, we can evaluate river.
On river, I didn't expect V2 to have any bluffs into 2 players. Yet we forgot about the pot size, we forgot that flop was xx, turn was similar to xx when bet so small. We just randomly put V2 on QQ/JJ type hands yet they're looser than we expected. We probably should pay him off when it's so small.
They both look very fishy after showdown, but in fact, hero was probably the fish with monster under the bed syndrome in this hand.
Grunch:
PRE - Why are you opening to $15 over a $6 straddle? Why not $20 or $25 in this game, with this specific V in the straddle, when we have position?
As played, our dinky open size looks FOS, and V's min-click 3B looks even more FOS, so I'm definitely 4B'ing, but not to $100, when we're starting $600 deep. Think I'd make it $135, so he can just toss in the one $100 chip, or maybe go to $150, to put real pressure on him to consider a 5B-jam.
That $100 size isn't folding out enough of either opponent's range, especially if (or when) both V's think we're FOS because we only raised to $15 over a $6 straddle. I'd be calling you light if I were them, too.
FLOP - this is the problem with our pre-flop actions. We have no idea where we are.
I'd probably check back here. But a VERY small c-bet with the Kd in our hand may be okay, but ONLY because it's possible either / both V's might think we were just screwing around pre with a hand that might be nutted now.
The problem with betting is that V1 is probably planning to jam, and V2 is probably planning to either check-raise, or check-call just to donk lead on a later street, and nobody's folding anything that connected with this board in any way before they see the turn.
The bigger problem is we literally beat nothing, and there's a decent chance one or both V's realize it.
Not folding turn. Probably not raising, but...something smells fishy here. By process of elimination, I guess we call.
Still not folding river. Probably not raising, but....I kinda want to.
Tell me a hand that beats ours that plays this way, street by street. The only hand I can think of is a supremely slow-played T9dd.
20 on the turn is basically a check to me.
now that i know the board paired, i guess i might ease up on GII but 100 to win 478? c'mon.
this is an easy call at least and i am unconcerned with what hands i get shown.
the fact that its 3 way gives me more pause on gii on river here rather than the paired board though. im not buyin a flopped set in a 4bet pot isnt finding a bet on that flop of some size and sure turn might slow 'em down and paired river gives all clear but wtf kinda bet is 100. if he had big value and its likely he'll get looked up by a flush he's sizing up, not puttin some palty # in there.
if you had a loose aggressive image you could get away with juicing the turn though. turning AK into a bluff isnt ideal but again with a pot this size and 3 way action you can get called by worse still. Also, i dont see an A tryin to trap any longer once the 4th diamond hits often enough to make me think holding the K isnt the effective nuts here. but the fact that Q J are on the board limits the number of likely combos that see the flop after a 4bet. TT or 99 with a diamond might stab turn like that for 20 say - do they peel if you raise there? tough to answer with information supplied.
