KJs in SB, look at all that dead money!

yah this is a weird one. flatting OOP with KJs isnt good fun and only makes things difficult post flop vs the field/likelihood V1 or V2 shove flop given stack sizes.

In my head this is a rollercoaster spot where you can either take a high variance line and repop to encourage HU vs V1 knowing you'll likely be GII (unavoidable in my estimation) or folding - which isnt exploitable but if you're feeling antsy from being card dead, not the likely consideration you may be making in game. Stack sizes make this really ****ing awkward though:

If you size down, you're likely to go MW to the flop still.

Its unlikely there's a magic number that somehow splits V1 and V2's decisions to ride in opposite directions and sizing too low potentially just sees the field all call and now you basically are hoping to flop the nuts since the only opponent you'll have fold equity against would be V3 given stack sizes.

If your game is better than field, folding is totally fine. But if raising is satisfying some necessity to participate in the game, I think you have to make it absurdly large (200 say) to ensure you can realize your equity. Its likely if V1 calls, V2 will also call giving you some overlay on the all-in but doing so means you lose some equity as well. And since hands like KJs benefit from semibluffing and opponents folding a fair ammount, it's not an ideal setup.

I dont like a call because it restricts you to having to hit something greater than 2pair too often given # of potential hands seeing the flop/bloated size/and youre OOP as well as the fact that the straddles havent even acted yet all serve to not benefit you in any way.

I think if you ship, you might get snapped off vs V1 range.

Then folding seems the best option.

If your hand has a little more equity we can ship, maybe 99+, aq+

I know everyone else hates it, and you are OOP, but I might just flat and see a flop vs. this lineup.

Just dump it. You're in the worst position at the table, a tight player just raised the double straddle, and your opponents are two short stacks and a crusher...definitely not the right situation to play BINGO or Squeezies with KJs.

I'm not that sad that I don't get to play KJs.

If we think we are close to flipping (or better, obv) vs. V1's range I would pretend to think and shove. If we aren't sure, I would just fold.
Eg. KJs vs 25% is flipping (49.7%).
vs. 20% we have 46.6%.
vs. 15% we have 41.6%.

I wouldn't think much about a "better" size because we are deeper vs. V3.

What is a "very studied, crusher" TAG overcalling with when the targets are this short? How deep are either straddle? If they're sticky & deep...ok. I guess.

I don't think you're doing well here, and you don't have room to maneuver. Gimme an Ace suited and OK, why not, good for the game, yadda, yadda. I fold.

This is actually one of the reasons I like a call. V1 is tilted, V2 is loose/passive, and V3 is a "very studied, crusher" TAG who called. LOL. I want to see a flop 😉

V3 is in CO and has position on everyone, possible he even had evidence that BTN would fold before calling.

Unless reads are trash we aren't doing great vs. CO when we are OOP vs. everyone, next to act after him and deeper vs. him.

On the other side it's very difficult for him to play his calling range correctly when we shove, unless we are doing this a lot.

either 3 bet to like 150 or fold. id rather fold.

gl calling and then trying to play postflop.

Calling OOP with no stack depth and a dominated hand is ghastly.

Nice hand. Heart says jam, head says fold. Head has to shout very loudly to overcome heart.

FWIW, "not having much to play" is the norm when playing pokrz. if we don't deal with that well it's going to be a struggle.

The question probably isn't whether KJs is a trivial fold here (it is, imo) but what hand does it becomes close, with my guess being AQs.

You know better as to whether V1 is actually tilting, but what's a normally "quite tight" opening range, especially one who only has a $200 stack and is opening to fricken $35 in a 1/3 NL game (yes, I course realize this is a reasonable open due to the double straddle, but in reality she is just playing her hand strength). Is a nitty range of TT+/AK kinda what she is doing here? KJs is a terrible 70/30 dog and even AQs is a bad 65/35 dog to that range. We probably have little FE against her. We might be able to get the lol loose passive fish to put in the rest of his stack as decent dead money (although he's still sucking up some equity), but I doubt it's making up that much for how far behind we are to V1. Flatting to put in a hugenormous ~1/6 of our stack against V1 / even larger ~1/4 of our stack against V2 and often not realizing our equity seems horribad. Even against the "deep" guy (SPR will be lol 3, we're not remotely deep) how exactly are we getting his studied stack in a protected pot OOP; our plan is to cooler him on the flop?

If V1 is getting remotely out of line, and we don't think V3 is tarping (really the only hands he should have here flatting for this percentage of stacks, although I find most deep crushers suck at shortstack), then more argument for shoving with AQs. Otherwise I think it falls into a nitty fold. KJs doesn't even make the discussion, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Result:

Oh, well.

Just look at the other thread where KJ makes broadway 😉

I'm the only one who doesn't mind the flat, though. Even OOP, this seems like an easy lineup to play against considering the one "crusher" limped in. LOL. I do think folding would be better than raising.

oh banana

I fold in this spot and I don't think it's close.

Vs. V1 we are behind her likely range, which is also uncapped, and she's short and likely to call more often than not.

Vs. V2 I don't know if we're ahead or not, even passive fish know to tighten up when cold-calling 3bets. He is highly likely to call being so short so we need more raw equity than him.

Vs. V3 I have no idea what range our table wizard is flatting but I'm going to guess it's narrow and strong. Potentially trapping with AA but mostly something like mid-pockets/big suited Aces but not AK. I guess he will fold to the shove but we're toast if he calls. Also if I'm going to take a high variance line against a wizard, I want a better hand to do it with.

So we have 3 players and each one has reasons that a shove is dubious. I think it's very probable we get called by at least one and that our equity is low to terrible when this happens.

I'm never calling to put in a big chunk of my stack OOP against a strong player with this hand.

Feels weird that new posts have the action wrong, two days after it was posted and even after the reveal.

There was no 3bet, "just" a double straddle.

Blinds: 1-3-6-12
V1 opened ~3x with 16.7bb
V2 called with 12.5bb
V3 called with 37.5bb

where bb=$12

Unless banana has an image that he'll be shipping it a lot here, I don't see how V3 is just calling much that can call easily if we shove.

Shrug, I probably autofold if we are here a lot or if anyone thinks we are tilted/bad/whatever but it seems like we're probably not in this spot much. We have reads and... our hand is pretty good, blocks some stuff and in some ways I'd rather shove KJs than A4s even if robots would pick differently.