5-5-10/20 Rock Game: A-T-9-8 ds, 3 ways, super deep
going through my notes, found another interesting spot:
Aria Rock Game.
V1 7K, V2 600ish, me close to 8K
V1 opens utg+1 to 70 (Rock was in BB, Sb not present), middle pos. V2 calls, i 3bet to 310.
Question 1: Is that too loose/wide, or 3bet ok?
V1 is a strong reg, but also very aggressive, he opens a lot of hands. If i can shut out the rest of the field, being in pos. then, very deep, i thought that's a good 3 bet.
V1 calls, now V2 goes all-in for 625 (which opens up for a potential raise again).
Question 2: It looks like an automatic 4bet for me (if i don't i basically announce that i don't have aces), but as mentioned, V1 is a good player, he could have just called my 3bet having aces himself, bc he could have only made it around 1Kish (being 7K deep, out of position, that's not a good play). So, do we 4 bet or just flat here?
Question 3: If we 4bet, and he comes over the top again, are we folding?
13 Replies
Good 3b, 4b to 2K and stack off if he jams.
What’s your hand champ
Nvm it’s in title lol
Mandatory 3b so that’s fine.
You can do this one of two ways. You have position very deep against a thinking player. You benefit from being IP, small bets, and a multi street game to push your positional advantage. In theory I would think this is just a flat as you are pushing equity vs the All in who can have any high pair and dont really want to push out the V1
Or
You can just be fine with flipping vs the all in spazz and just minclick it up to price out V1
If he 5b over this, im not folding IP and im fairly certain to fold is a huge exploit here. If he has aces they aren’t the best as DS aces should’ve 4b u with dead money in the pot and shitty aces dont wanna bloat a pot 250bb deep OOP. If it was 150bb deep or less or you were a whale he could absolutely print 5b but sounds like people expect you to have a good range here and hands like this. I’ll double check the solve for 200bb deep situations like this later today.
You have odds call against AA for a pot sized bet. QJT9ds would be much better against AA though.
I'm going to concentrate on one only topic, dry side pot. If you call V2's $625 all-in and V1 also calls, then you are off to the flop with a "dry side pot." On the flop, V1 is not only out of position, but has the ugly decision whether to make a bet or call a bet into a dry side pot. You being in position is huge. And the stack to pot ratio SPR is about 3.5 so it is a multiple street game and you mostly get to decide if or when bets go in. So the hand started preflop deep, but with the preflop action including several players and multiple raises, technically we are here on the flop in a pot with a SPR of 3.5 and hopefully you can play a solid normal game from there out.
The dealer button revolves around the table and we all share equally being in or out of position. What I have noticed, anecdotally, is the players that preserve their positional advantage here by calling and then applying a lot of pressure post-flop get an insane amount of fold equity and win a lot without going to showdown, instead of needlessly flipping all night.
Good input guys, thx ��
Mandatory 3b so that's fine. You can do this one of two ways. You have position very deep against a thinking player. You benefit from being IP, small bets, and a multi street game to push your positional advantage. In theory I would think this is just a flat as you are pushing equity vs the All in who can have any high pair and dont really want to push out the V1OrYou can just
ps: minclick is interesting, hadn't thought about that.
i'm either building a side pot right there, and continue with the hand deep in position, or go with it if he comes over the top again.
3! standard, 4! attractive though not mandatory. I think we can heavily discount AA from V1 range given actjon which makes 4! preferred though.
If Hero wants to mix 4! 66-75%, flat 25-33% or something, I think that's fine too. This is an awkward SPR for V1 to play OOP in a protected pot, so Hero doesn't mind encouraging him to come along vs our range much, as Hero will frequently overrealize equity / etc. and the ev can be comparable or greater than chopping up the dead money vs all-in.
If villain will view call as weak and backraise often, then Hero prefers 4!.
Still, this type of ds connected Axxx is the best non AAxx, or AKKx hand to 4! from a theory standpoint (and unblocking broadway is a good thing), so kind of a slam dunk.
I don't like min-click.
thx for your input.
3! standard, 4! attractive though not mandatory.
I think we can heavily discount AA from V1 range given action
really not sure about this.
as mentioned, guy is a good player, played with him a ton.
and he knows i'm on the tighter side preflop, so he respects my 3bet and knows, i'm not effing around here ... i either have aces myself, or a hand that plays well against aces.
and he's good enough to understand, that he can only 4bet himself to like 1K (pretty much exactly actually), and then we're still very deep and he's out of position, so there's a good reason for him not to 4bet (if he had aces)
can you elaborate on why?
as mentioned above, i didn't think about it in play, but now see it as a valid option (opening a side pot, etc.)
by the way:
whats my bottom range here for a 3bet? (going down range from A-T-9-8 ds)
at98 ss?
at97 ds?
I think min-click makes hand easier for villain to play than call. He is now more incentivized to 6! (perhaps lightly), but even if he does not re-raise, he will have a lower SPR post-flop, which is more appealing than a higher SPR play-ability wise, and is getting good direct odds to call. I don't know that he should really fold any of his range to a min-raise.
Seems more like FPS than a good line to take with AAxx, especially since post-flop implied odds for Hero with AA would be worse in a protected pot, and villain more likely to fold KK/QQ post too when villain could have AA/KK. So I think min-click will often be interpreted by villain as implausible for AA and weak. I would much rather call a small portion of AAxx as a trap, than have any min-raise at al.
