AKo short stacked

I dont mind it but I know next to nothing about short-stack play in a pot-raked cash game. We have tournament players that come to our room and do this sometimes to "sim" their next spots where they have 20 BBs and are sitting on JTs or whatever.

I find it:

1. More variance. You can buy in 5x and lose 500 relatively quickly vs buying in once for 500.

2. You have to fold a lot more. Which sucks because you already have to fold a lot.

3. Your skill edge post kind of evaporates. You're just waiting to stick it in, some places even the fishiest of fish can read a limp-shove and fold their AJo.

I know what I am doing playing a short stack. Sometimes you can see a flop. Sometimes you can shove over a bunch of loose callers of the raise. Sometimes, you can semibluff shove a draw on the turn and get folds.

Seems fine to me?

Since you have a lot of short stack and tourney experience, could you maybe offer some examples of spots where you wouldnt shove flop? Is it simply boards that hit opponents range better or what ar ethe major factors that determine whether to shove or not?

The guy raised almost 6x pre, so it's almost as if you are playing 3 6 with 30 bb. You then raised 30pc of your stack so you'd have to call any jam. Why not just jam pre yourself especially given you want to jam a missed flop?

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I was going to post it from villain's perspective, but I couldn't figure out how. Villain folded QQ face up. I said "good fold". Maybe should have shown the K. A lot of 3!s at 1/3 are big pairs. However, my shove looks like a big ace or mid pp or a flush draw, or that I am shoving whatever I 3! with. AA/KK might gii in 2 bets.

Played fine. V is terrible -- lucky you. Never show! FWIW, I would have snapped you off.

BTW, you are not supposed to post hands from V's perspective.

Seems fine, assuming you have the right image. If your opponent thinks you're tight and this is how you'd play AA/KK but not AK or lower PP's, he should be over-folding. But if you look like a losing player, you'll get more calls.

If I was V, and see you only have 175 to start, I'd be playing 4B-jam or fold pre, when you 3B to 50. Of course I would be raising larger than 17 over two limps. Probably $20-$25, so your 3B size should just be all in for 175, and I'm going to have a hard time folding, unless you seem really nitty.

Yeah, I am a little older and play solid ranges. Definitely didn't want to show.

pre too small, postflop standard

lol at folding QQ face up as if it was some sort of brag.

The standard for expert players who know exactly what they are doing deep compared to the rest of the table is to BI deep. Almost everyone else would be better off BIing short, especially initially to a game which they have zero read on (can always top up later when that read changes to "OMG, I should be sitting as deep as possible in this game").
Purposely sit at the stack you are most comfortable with, imo.

I would go just a smidge larger preflop to give myself closer to a PSB shove on the flop.

And with just a ~PSB left I now continue thru with my plan and shove the flop (even as meh a flop it is). Some better hands will fold some of the time. Some of the time we're ahead and just protecting our equity in a huge pot relative to stacks. The times we're called we give ourselves around 3:1 to chase our 2:1 overs and realize our equity (not horrendous all told given other outcomes).

Gnicehand,imoG

this wasnt flippant or sarcastic, an earnest question because I dont feel confident in my SS game as my understanding generally is "GII" and only rarely would I be finding nuanced or thin spots where I may fold in a situation like this. partially also why i hate tournements because so often you get to a sub 50BB stacks and its just a push-bot fest and hope you run good. unfortunately, i dont run good so i hate playing taht version of the game.

the only nuanced thing i picked up in this HH was the preflop was still below 1/3rd of your stack meaning theoretically you had room to walk away but im sure to anyone at the table: a) most dont even care b) the one that notices assumes its 1/3rd and assumes you'll be GII'ing above 95% of the time.

Yeah I had a very similar hand like this playing a $100 BI tournament few years back, I 3bet AK v calls, x - I jam the low flop, he open folds QQ...absolutely baffling play by the villain but he seemed to think he'd read my soul, so on with the game I guess.

so whats consensus on this? my short stack strategy is admittedly garbage and so i'm like - im only playing the top of my range, i likely less FE than i need, but i wanna realize all my equity so i want it be a 7 card game pretty much always here.

Outside of very specific and obvious spots (i have AKhh board is 456 all clubs say), i really dont know how much nuance exists between that extreme there and something like KT8 two diamonds say.

The consensus seems to be to buyin and top off for the maximum and don't play short stacked, but that doesn't work best for me. Clearly it works for the video authors on CLP etc.

I don't play all that tight short stacked. You can't usually play small pps, unless in a limped pot or like 7-way. For Axs, you can still sometimes limp behind in late position. I open raise some hands and play a flop and can often get allin with top pair or a good draw postflop. Can shove some strong hands over a raise and bunch of callers. Sometimes, it is better to call a raise multiway than to shove or fold.

With like 60xBB here, I 3-bet with the idea of usually gii on the the flop. Technically, you could just 3! shove, but low stakes players like to see the flop.

Buying in for 33xBB, there are profitable spots where there is a raise and callers, and you can shove for like 1.5xpot and almost always get called. Have to look at how much your shove is to the pot, and sometimes shove a looser range with somewhat higher SPR, as you have more FE. People tend to call short stack shoves too light, which makes it profitable with good hands.

One time I limped TT with the idea of limp/shove, but there was a raise from a tight player who I thought usually had a higher pp, so I flat called multiway. Then folded a K-high flop to a bet and raise.

You played it fine, I would shove every flop. Or shove dark. Slightly bigger pre gets more value and reduces SPR.

Deuce, there is nothing wrong with your strat / playing at the stack you are comfortable with. Expert players will obviously be able to win far more playing deep, but each of us has to play within our own abilities.

GgoodluckG

This is a very typical shortstack problem spot. You can shove pre which will be laughed at but you dont pay any rake if you get folds and AQ might call thinking a jam is a smaller pp.

As played your strongest line is small bet flop (20%) and jam turn which can get 99-JJ to fold. These hands have a much higher chance to call your flop overshove.

I probably 3bet smaller to like 35~40 with our whole 3betting range.

Flop cbet small like 1/5.

Our goal is to get stacks in with our whole range. Our range in theory should be super strong.

Our stack is short, it doesn't take much effort to get stacks in.

Shoving might scare our opponents range, ie. pp, random draws, random ax and overcards.

ok cool - this is actually really helpful as it does kinda address some of the "in between" type questions I generally had.

Do you try to leave a game once you've 3x'ed your SS bi in these instances? or 2x'ed or is it more of a "**** it, lets go im playin off other people's money now" and press the **** outta it?

Buy in for however much you feel comfortable with. Ignore people who insist you always need to have the max buying amount in front of you.

Usually, I buyin for the minimum and sometimes build a stack. I used to leave, get a meal and come back or switch to a different game. I used to buyin for $100 at 2/5 when it was 100-500, like 1/3 usually is now.

I might 3! small with AA/KK or sort of a bluff. With AK and any mid pp or big ace I decided to 3!, I would use the sizing I used.

I see people buyin for the max at 1/2, 1/3, or 2/5, and then get stacked a couple of times, not being able to fold TPGK or an overpair. There are less high blinds games now, and more high buyins for the blinds, and some good players make more money deep.

Getting it in on pretty much any flop. I was 28% against QQ on this one with backdoor draws. Can't shove dark in position. I don't like shoving dark, as it should cause pps to call more. Obviously, wasn't expecting QQ to fold, but would like to get TT to fold.

That might be better. I would be more likely to take that approach OOP. Obviously, great if he calls the flop and folds the turn.

What I always wonder about short stackers is what they do once they double up. If you buy in for $100-$150, and get to $200-$300, do you pick up and leave, or do you sit there and nit it up, or do you have a different game plan for playing $200-$300 deep?

If it's "different game plan", then I wonder why they don't just buy in for that much and play that game plan. If they're picking up and leaving or sitting there nitting it up, I wonder, "why bother"? It seems pointless to drive to the casino just to make $100 and leave, and it must be boring as hell to sit there folding everything for hours just to lock up a win.

Take it all with a grain of salt. I buy in for the max, and will top off as needed to keep as much money as possible on the table. And I'm more comfortable playing deep than playing shallow. When I get shallow, I tend to jam with 77-99 and some trashy AX combos. It's not unusual to see me run up a big stack early in a session and leave with only $200-$300 profit after playing 6 hours.

I don't mind people buying in short, but it usually indicates to me that they are scared money or new players, and I will try to take advantage of that by putting lots of pressure on them, folding to their all-ins (almost always AK+ if not always KK/AA), etc. If you are a good short stack player, go for it, but I think you should leave when you double or triple up -- or when it's enough to make you uncomfortable to lose it.

We have a lot of short stackers in my 1/2 games, and they are all losing players. Sometimes I want to tell them to just leave when they double or triple up, but they never do and almost always end up broke -- after buying in for $50 - $100 two to four times. Would have been smarter to just sit down with a full stack 😉

I just play normally after building a normal stack, which is sort of tight, but definitely not OMC, and playing small pps and Axs more than short stacked.

As I mentioned sometimes I take a break and come back or switch to a different stakes, PLO, or a limit game for an hour or so and come back.