5-5-10/20 PLO live: Aces, 0.8 SPR, Villain goes all-in

I think this is one of the few flops we can fold.

Played well all the way

Just have to fold this flop. In theory he may just have a 100% lead on this board but does he even know that? Most dont.

You just have too much behind to call here and shouldn’t have the necessary equity to call here and don’t have a relevant blocker. If you had something like 2 BDFDs with a pair you might be able to, but this hand in particular just muck it.

Bit 600 instead of 1000 pf would open betting if (when) the smaller stack that reraised pushes and you are all in preflop, probably SB folds preflop or has to commit with your 3500

Yeah, 100% Correct.
Unfortunately I played also with the short stack player a lot, and he never does that (reraises so that it opens the action), he just calls to get the pot multi-way.

So I decided for full pot to have a better chance of getting the villain out

Yeah, kinda thought so too, but then convinced myself bc of his loose and tricky play up to this point and the low SPR to put it in
(Was crushed unfortunately, he had set + open Ender, j866 ds)

PS:
Good information though (him calling 1K pre with that hand), but costly ;-)))

“Villain is not bad”

“Has j866 ds in 4b pot”

Guys come on

Villain is massive fish whale. Crazy to me how much credit fish get on this forum lol. Where y’all play I want an invite!!!!

He really is (not bad), just super loose pre, but knows what he’s doing Postflop

Re. invitation:
Open game at aria. Everyone is invited

It doesn't matter if someone is borderline decent post-flop if they torch money pre-flop. The villain in this hand is a whale for decent players, no question.

It's not an automatic fold, Hero doesn't want to fold if he thinks he is an equity favorite in the sidepot, but its hard to get exploited too much by folding either. Hero will have plenty of other hands to call here.

a) your evaluation is of course correct, most definitely in a pure gto online world
b) i try to give as much information as possible about not only hands, but also players and tendencies, to get the most accurate and valuable feedback possible, taking all this into consideration
c) playing against these kind of players is not easy, and i welcome you to try. always deep, totally unpredictable, any 4 possible, always putting you to the test.

i play in these games on a regular basis, and can tell you from experience, that labeling this guy (or these type of guys to be more precise) simply as "whales" doesn't do them justice and most importantly doesn't help evaluating their play and find the best response at all.

This is the wrong mindset.

Anyone can flop a set and hit the pot button in a 3b pot vs aces or be able to play a draw aggressively. Even an idiot knows in a 3b pot that potting on a 765 flop puts a ton of difficulty on the pre flop 3bettor. And just because someone is capable of 3betting absolute trash doesn’t make them difficult to play against or good.

The real problem is most likely you have no idea how to play properly in a deep stack situation, 200bbs deep, based on theory. If you study the baseline, you will see the deviations and learn the proper responses and exploits.

For example, at 100bb it’s a print to bet certain hands that become an absolute torch to bet at 400bbs.

I’ve seen people jam top set no redraw or blockers 3 ways in an SPR of 12 on a flop 400bb deep with a 20k stack effective. Most people think this is a good idea. It’s an absolute fucken torch. Like I can’t describe how insanely bad this is.

Then there’s people like this, who show up in a 4b pot MULTI-WAY with J866. This is an absolute fucken torch.

Then there’s a 4bettor who calls off on this flop and pays him off with a hand that can’t. This is an absolute fucken torch.

But if we don’t understand why these are torches, we just chuck it to variance and he’s a good player who knows how to put ranges in tough spots.

No. He is an idiot who flopped a set and said pot.

You should be relentlessly, and I mean relentlessly, 3b and 4b this player until he either starts limping his entire range in fear or learns to fold pre. You of course tighten up your range a bit to exploit him, but there should not be a pot you are in with him also in the pot that you have not reraised him pre. You should always be to his left, and anytime hes in a pot you should have either 3b him or folded. If he starts 4b then you 5b with a more linear but merged range. Until he shows you proper ranges pre, you should be the devil he sees in the mirror every morning.

This inversely means you are going to fold pre way more often now, as the more middle merged and bottom polar parts of your range are all folds now to exploit him.

But again, you need to understand why this is the exploit.

Point is, before you can label anyone being good at poker, you need to know what good poker looks like first.

There’s only 2 options here. He is either so bad at poker that he doesn’t know J866 is a torch or…..he has figured out that you are so incredibly bad at poker that he can play any 4 vs you in position and print.

Is there really nothing inbetween these options

This is sound information.

Well, I also have a hard time accepting that these are the only 2 options.
Nevertheless, very decent and comprehensive analysis @echemondo, thx for that

Not to brag , just fyi:
I have a very good winrate over a long sample size in these games, so even if I admit that my theoretical base is probably not bulletproof, I’m pretty certain that I can’t be that bad also ;-)

It's very difficult to get a conclusive sample size live. Even if you play the same game every night for years, it's still a very small sample size in the context of PLO.

I know an absolute mobey dick who is having a currently +180k 2 months and he has no idea what he’s doing

lol im not saying you are bad. It’s more likely he is bad. You are actively looking to get advice and improve. Im just saying my mind and im pretty blunt.

If he has j866 in this spot hes the whale.

no offense taken, i was making a joke, all good.

and yes, i'm looking for advice, and some people in here are often very blunt, but that's fine (when the advice is good, which it is in your case)