How tight of a range do we need to call this shove preflop?
This is home game 1/3, was short handed now 8 players
Villain1 ~ stacks 280 ~ tight aggro, lost several big pots tonight, hero caught him bluffing once.
Villain2 ~ new guy just sat down for 400, dunno much about him
Hero ~ Super crazy lag image. Shown lots of bluffs but taking down lots of pots. Hero covers
Villain3 ~ fishy passive, super deep 1kish.
Hero has raised 3 consecutive hands to 30+ already, won with no showdown.
Hero in HJ opens to 35, Villain3 flats in Co, Villain1 in BTN ships for total of 280, Villain2 in sb ships for 400 total,
back to hero
What range does hero need to call?
Do we need KK+? Or can it be looser?
Villain1 3bet shoving range should be fairly wide since our image is ****. But villain2 shoving on top looks super strong.
12 Replies
I think sb can have pairs probably even TT or lower, so qq and ak for you seem fine. JJ probably a fold
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What's your thought process behind opening 12x? It seems really bad, especially with the shorter stacks at the table. This is a much easier spot with normal raise sizes.
But maybe you just want to play big pots and gamble? If that's the case, why even post the thread? Just call with ATC and play some bingo.
In theory we're folding everything that isn't AA when we open 12x, and face two shoves. With our wild man image, I suppose we could call off with QQ+/AKs.
Speaking as someone who sometimes has a wild man image, I've found that when opponents push back on me, they're super-polar, so this action would be the nuts or something stupid. V1 might be tilted and spewing, but if V2 just sat down and isn't aware of your prior shenanigans, we're probably toast, and should mostly fold without AA/KK.
Ok, I was villain1 with TT, villain 2 had aces, villain folded AK
Hero snap shipped??????, probably had JJ or maybe the last AK?, because board ran out KQxxx, he mucked.
In theory we're folding everything that isn't AA when we open 12x, and face two shoves. With our wild man image, I suppose we could call off with QQ+/AKs. Speaking as someone who sometimes has a wild man image, I've found that when opponents push back on me, they're super-polar, so this action would be the nuts or something stupid. V1 might be tilted and spewing, but if V2 just
He was getting action with 10-12bb open, but managed to take it down on flops/turn
Ok, I was villain1 with TT, villain 2 had aces, villain folded AK
Hero snap shipped??????, probably had JJ or maybe the last AK?, because board ran out KQxxx, he mucked.
Is this a reverse hand? Isn’t the OP usually the hero?
I missed it was a 12x open!
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Ok, I was villain1 with TT, villain 2 had aces, villain folded AK
Hero snap shipped??????, probably had JJ or maybe the last AK?, because board ran out KQxxx, he mucked.
Be advised there's a forum rule against reverse hand histories, where the OP makes hero the villain and vice versa, as a way to critique an opponent's play.
And? What's the point?
If V is getting action with 10bb-12bb opens, it's a splashy table, and / or his image really sucks. If he's taking it down post flop, the table isn't just splashy, it's spewy, and / or he might actually know what he's doing.
If an opponent is incessantly opening for huge raise sizes, the adjustment is to play raise or fold, and 3B him with a stronger range. If he seems to over-fold to our 3B's, we can start to widen our 3B range *slightly*.
Hold em with no antes is just a contest for the blinds. From every position that isn't the blinds, there's no incentive to go out of our way to play a big pot with a marginal holding just because an opponent wants to make it a dick swinging contest. We don't even need to defend our BB that much when V is opening to 10-12bb.
FWIW, TT is probably somewhere near the bottom of our shoving range at this stack depth, and would probably be fine to flat call a 12bb on the BTN. Shoving pre just eliminates our position advantage post flop, and makes it easy for our opponents to play perfectly against us. If we jam and get called, I'd assume we're either way behind or flipping at best.
As for the guy who opened huge and then faces two jams, like I said, if he has a wild man image, I'd expect opponents to start pushing back with a polar range. Heads up, I might call a short stack shove with QQ+/AK. But if the stacks are deeper, or if there's a jam and a rejam for more, I'm only calling with AA, and maybe sometimes KK, depending on the stack sizes and any live reads.
Another adjustment I'd make - either top off to the max stack size allowable, or play super snug / jam or fold off a short stack, or change tables, because less than 100bb is not going to be easy to play when someone at the table is opening to 10-12bb and getting action. You're effectively playing $5-$10 with 10bb.
I looked at it in Holdem Lab, and Bill's calling range was pretty much what I came up with too. Though JJ was also just +EV. Home game, probably better to give looser action. Not calling off TT though. Another +1 to, "There's a rule against reverse HH."
I was gonna say "Just post your ****ing hand. Playing hide the ball with what your hand deserves a thread to be insta locked IMO. " and then I looked thru comments after writing the previous sentence and shocker its a reverse HH which is against the rules. Every single time someone does this its because their post is a total worthless waste of everyone's time.
Also i was going to ask what the point is of asking theory questions when youre raising 12x with a 50% range, but turns out OP just doesnt understand that this V doesnt give a crap about strategy. He could have J2s who cares!
Absolute genuine top tier trash, im sad i wasted time reading it.
