Jacks again (apparently the poker gods like keeping cardiologists busy)
1-2nl 7 handed
Hero with the eff stack at $500, who is a hundred dollars down and has been playing for 7 hours. SB
Two limpers.
HJ Middle Aged Asian Guy with glasses who has been at the table for about an hour and is on a heater takes it to $12 (has Hero covered).
CO Young Asian Guy with glasses who has been at the table for hours and is on a heater flats (has a stack 3 times Hero).
Button Stereotypical OMC. Hardly ever raises pre but will call raises often. (has twice Hero's stack).
Both HJ and CO are loose aggressive players. A $12 raise is quite common at this table tonight. No real information on hand strength, players could have anything.
SB (Hero) with Jacks 3! to $60.
BB almost throws two red chips to call the first raise. Realizes Hero's raise ant then says "I'm glad you act before me" then folds.
Folds to HJ who calls.
CO calls.
Button calls.
Flop ($190) 6h 6d 5d
Hero bets $65
HJ calls
CO folds
Turn ($320) 6h 6d 5d 6c
Hero with Fullhouse and $375 behind.
What's the play here? Flush draws are unlikely to call. HJ is less likely to have a 6 now that there's three on the board.
Giving a free card could bring a card bigger than a Jack on the river.
16 Replies
Prob a good spot to check like you have AK and hope he jams a flush draw or something to that extent.
Think something like $100 is good here. It looks weak - like you are setting your own price with AK. Goal is to get more money in against worse PP's before a scare card comes on the river. The milky $100 sizing will make it harder for him to fold on river when you jam for half pot, $275 into $520.
I think you can bet significantly bigger OTF. It's pretty unlikely you're beat, but your hand is a bit vulnerable and there are draws out there. Also, there are a lot of lower PPs that are still overpairs, and many of them have backdoor straight draws. If the flop was 985 or something, now there are fewer hands that can call you and more that can beat you.
AP.... some guy is famous for saying recs never fold boats. We can make a bet that makes it very painful for them to do so. I kinda like to go 180 or so. Less than $200. Will leave less than $200 OTR.
ES2 wrote
I think you can bet significantly bigger OTF. It's pretty unlikely you're beat, but your hand is a bit vulnerable and there are draws out there. Also, there are a lot of lower PPs that are still overpairs, and many of them have backdoor straight draws. If the flop was 985 or something, now there are fewer hands that can call you and more that can beat you.
I like this. Its not something I do in my game but will definitely be adding it in from now on. Do you still think I'm ahead acting first with two Opponents behind? Both my Opponents are willing to play a 6 or pocket 5s. But would they in a three bet pot? Not something I considered at the time.
Turn ($320) 6h 6d 5d 6c
Hero Thinks he is most likely good here. He wants to bet something that will keep small pairs in, maybe flush draws stay in. And by showing some weakness maybe he gets some action from Villain with any two cards. I think I forgot to share that I think this player came from a 2-5 table.
Hero is also afraid of Villain having a six. Bigger pairs shouldn't be an issue here. Maybe Queens flat here (this is Low limit poker), Kings and Aces would most likely have 4bet. Hero doesn't want to give a free card. He is afraid of Villain checking back with something like the Ace of diamonds and an Ace hitting the river.
Hero bets $75
Villain raises $275
Pot($670) Hero has $300 behind. What is hero's action here?
All-in. QQ is the only thing you should be worried about as 6X would not take this line and 55 is counterfeit. Villain has many worse full houses in range. Your small bet has probably induced a thin value/protection raise or even a bluff.
All-in. QQ is the only thing you should be worried about as 6X would not take this line and 55 is counterfeit. Villain has many worse full houses in range. Your small bet has probably induced a thin value/protection raise or even a bluff.
You’re right about 55 being counterfeit. Something I realized at the time but forgot to mention.
Do you consider this a thin raise/bluff? At 1-2 someone going to 275 is rare and huge. There was $395 in the pot before Villains action. About ~70%. Maybe it’s just me being stuck on absolute size vs relative to pot size?
OTTH
Hero is looking at $200 to call on the turn. $670 in pot with $300 behind.
My brain was telling me to shove. It’s unlikely he has a six. Bigger pairs are unlikely. Also wouldn’t he just flat here if he had me beat, and get the money in otr? But my fear was saying nobody bluffs this big at 1-2. What bluffs could he have? Draws will give up here.
Hero decides to accept his fate. If Villain has it then so be it. I’ll call this a cooler and come back to lose another day.
Hero shoves.
And here is the part that is embarrassing.
Action is on Villain who is sitting far away from Hero and speaks with a thick accent. Villain asks “can he do that?” Dealer says yes. Then asks me to push my stack forward. Looks back at Villain and they talk back and forth. I thought Villain called and I turn my hand face up. Villain asks dealer “what is going on?” and points at my hand.
The Villain had not acted yet. And here he is in a $970 pot and he knows what I have! Villain thinks for awhile and folds showing the Jack of spades. Hero brings in the pot not feeling too good about the mistake he made. But glad he finely broke even for the night, with a decent profit to boot?
You’re right about 55 being counterfeit. Something I realized at the time but forgot to mention. Do you consider this a thin raise/bluff? At 1-2 someone going to 275 is rare and huge. There was $395 in the pot before Villains action. About ~70%. Maybe it’s just me being stuck on absolute size vs relative to pot size?OTTHHero is looking at $200 to call on the turn. $670 in pot w
I think a bluff is always possible, and especially so against an opponent who is loose and aggressive. I think the most likely hand would be something like 77-TT. Villain’s line of thinking with these hands would be something like “I have a full house and I am not folding so might as well put the money in.” Plus they know that their hand is vulnerable against overcards. It’s not a good play, but our opponents often make bad plays.
As far as the result of the hand, I wouldn’t worry about it. You cost yourself $100 and Villain probably folded an overcard with KJ or QJ. Misclicks like this will happen.
Grunch:
PRE - in loose low-stakes games, I'd be raising more pre. My normal formula would be 4x + 1 for each caller (6x, or $72-$75), but here I might go $85 or $90.
My reasoning is that there's a high likelihood the original raiser flats a smaller 3B, and by doing so brings the CO and BTN along. Even if he folds, and the CO folds, the BTN could have something he likes, since he over-called the raise, and he'll be HU and IP going to the flop.
Our preference would be to get this HU with a lower SPR, and 3B'ing larger is more likely to accomplish that goal.
FLOP - Multi-way, and / or OOP, I'd usually range-check the flop. But on this board, I could see c-betting. But if we bet, I think we should go larger, like full pot, or even an over-bet. If someone has 6x or 55, we're just going broke.
Did the BTN fold the flop? It appears so.
TURN - I mean...we really can't ask for a much better board when we have JJ. HJ can have all the 77-TT, and isn't overly likely to have QQ+. Think I just jam, pray that V thinks we're bluffing with AK, and that he calls with a lower PP.
I don't really see the point in betting small again, after V raises pre, calls our 3B, and calls our flop c-bet, next to act, with 2 opponents left to act. That's usually going to indicate he has a hand he likes, and doesn't want to fold.
If we bet small, he's just going to call again, but we're going to be lost on most rivers. Like, unless the river is a 2 through 6 (unlikely), any over-card potentially makes V a better boat. I wouldn't worry about his draws, because they're all folding. I'd just target all his 77-TT, and get it in.
If he snaps and shows us QQ, nice hand, good game, pardon me while I go vomit.
...Turn ($320) 6h 6d 5d 6cHero Thinks he is most likely good here. He wants to bet something that will keep small pairs in, maybe flush draws stay in. And by showing some weakness maybe he gets some action from Villain with any two cards. I think I forgot to share that I think this player came from a 2-5 table.Hero is also afraid of Villain having a six. Bigger pairs shouldn't
Bruh. My money was already in the middle. What's yours still doing sitting in front of you? Just jam already.
He's almost never folding, even if he is bluffing, as ludicrous as that would be. He'll be getting over 3:1 on a call, and might think he's getting the right odds with some un-paired Broadway trash.
...Do you consider this a thin raise/bluff? At 1-2 someone going to 275 is rare and huge. There was $395 in the pot before Villains action. About ~70%. Maybe it’s just me being stuck on absolute size vs relative to pot size?OTTHHero is looking at $200 to call on the turn. $670 in pot with $300 behind.My brain was telling me to shove. It’s unlikely he has a six. Bigger pairs are
How we'd label V's raise (thin value or a bluff) is debatable, but the debate is probably pointless. I'd look at it as a polarization mistake if he has a boat. Like, if he has 77-TT, and arguably QQ, there's just no reason to raise here, because it wouldn't be for value or as a bluff, when he's either way ahead or way behind.
If he's bluffing, it's a zero-equity bluff, unless he's got two over-cards to our JJ, and the potential to make a bigger boat.
Your read is that he's loose-aggro, and he's been on a heater, so it's certainly possible he's just trying to bully you with his big stack.
The thing about having a huge stack in a low stakes game is that it enables LAGs to make huge bets without any regard for what the "normal" bet sizes are for the game. If I have $2k in front of me at 1/3, it's not unusual to see me bet $300 or more on later streets, because I'm looking to play bigger pots.
As for your goof - don't beat yourself up about it. I've mistakenly exposed my hand at least twice in the past three months, when I thought my opponent called my bet or was all-in when he actually had chips behind. Just try to stay calm when you have a big hand, and confirm the action before taking action yourself.
If he had a J, and folded, even after seeing your hand, we can rule out JJ. He was bluffing, hoping to boat up, with just 3 outs. If he understood you were all in, it's doubtful he'd have called with AJ/KJ/QJ, even if you hadn't exposed your hand. At best he'd have 6 outs, or roughly a 12% chance of boating up, and not getting nearly the right pot odds to call your jam.
docvail wrote
Did the BTN fold the flop? It appears so.
I'm sorry I made a typo.
Folds to HJ who calls.
CO calls.
Button calls.
Button called the first raise then folded to my 3-bet pre.
It should read Button folds.
The flop was three ways with me HJ and CO ($190 after dead money and rake).
Does this information change Hero's action in any way?
Thanks everyone for there reply's. I'm a winning player who thought I knew a lot about poker. I can't believe how much I'm learning and how many different ways to look at the game there are!
docvail wroteI'm sorry I made a typo.Button called the first raise then folded to my 3-bet pre.It should read Button folds.The flop was three ways with me HJ and CO ($190 after dead money and rake).Does this information change Hero's action in any way?Thanks everyone for there reply's. I'm a winning player who thought I knew a lot about poker. I can't believe how much I'm learn
BTN folding pre makes more sense.
It only changes things to the extent that the more people in the pot, the more we need to be cautious and play more defensively. It also matters who's calling post-flop, from what positions (next to act, last to act, etc), though the BTN doesn't factor into that here.
Size up on flop. I like turn check as played, though another small bet isn't bad.
I agree with everything Dan GK said. I invoke Zeebo on the turn and make it ~100 to set up an easy shove on the river whilst also denying equity to overcards. Sure you can be up against QQ sometimes. More often you are up against TT-77. As played shove - misclicks are misclicks and he'd have folded in any event!
I invoke Zeebo
what?