Unorthodox back check-raise on flop - stupid-crazy or great situational awareness?

I think the line itself is much better if you really don't have a raising range when V2 bets flop, but I'd assume that's bad as it lets V2 stab at it way too much when checked to.

As for the hand selection itself, as the old saying goes "It doesn't matter what you bluff with when everyone folds" ... but T9/T7 seem particularly bad hands to play this way when you are called.

To be fair, I didn't snap off my opponent's pot size turn jam, I tank called. But I felt like I had a fairly easy call on the flop.

Also in my hand, the button bet/folded before the back raises, when they bet/call, they tend to be more capped, but depending on the player can still be nutted.

Before factoring in equity and fold equity on future streets (which is why we still cannot judge you play without the stacks of both villains) your bluff needs to work 56% of the time to profit. Meaning it needs to get through both villains.

I think you basically need to be sure UTG folds overpairs for your play to be profitable. If you are only 50% sure they fold overpairs, I doubt your play is profitable. Also, you could have J9s, 97s, 76s which are all 8 out straight draws that have a lot more equity vs the continue range. Considering UTG's range is mostly overpairs, I don't think blocking TT and T8s is as important as having equity or being sure they fold overpairs.

In this set-up, I generally wouldn't raise flop when V2 bets. I think the BTN is going to be stabbing a lot with worse pairs and bluffs I want to keep in. I generally don't see very many x/r's from PFR's in multi-way pots, and I wouldn't expect the UTG PFR to check-over-call very often in a spot like this, so my strong but vulnerable hands don't benefit as much from raising for protection.

If I raise flop, I won't really know what to do on a lot of turns with my unimproved 1P, or my 2P and sets. I'd rather let V2 keep the betting lead, and go for a check-raise on a turn brick or card that improves my hand. If BTN checks back turn, I can donk-lead river.

I feel like x/r'ing the flop makes it too easy for V2 to play perfectly against me, whereas check-calling flop with most or all of my range allows me to get more value for my strong hands, and occasionally get to a cheap showdown and / or steal a pot with some weaker hands.

In game, I didn't think T7 was too bad, since it blocked top set and top 2, and I could pick up equity on any 6, 7, 9, T, or J turn. What sort of hands do you think would be better?

I think facing V2s bet, my call, V2's call of his x/r, and my back-raise, it would be really hard for V1/UTG to continue with any over-pairs. If V1 calls, V2 can still jam behind, and even if V2 folds, I'm going to be barrelling huge on a lot of turns.

I thought T7 was a reasonably good hand to do this with. I'd pick up equity on any T, 7, 6, 9 or J, and any 2, 3 or 5 would basically be a blank. I could have J9, 97, or 76 here, but I'd think those hands wouldn't want to back-check-raise, and risk V1 or V2 jamming over top.

1. I would fold pre

2. I would not range V1 so easily to overpairs and naked overs.

3. I would be happier if it was deeper but you're basically AI OTT AP if someone calls.

I think it's fine calling with this hand, and I guess calling T8 gives you some value to this hand (or at least makes it more difficult for players to play against you with this hand) ... but you lose that value when you have 76s. Also feel like you lose a lot of value with T8/88 vs. KT/etc. on a lot of turns.

There's three 8 out straight draws J9/97/76, even if we are bluffing more than that I'd probably prefer blocking middle pair instead of top pair. With any pair bluff I'd _much_ prefer having a BDFD to go with it.
Yes, you can pickup equity on the turn vs. QQ but it's much harder to call that than it is J9 which is praying you hit 2 pair (and your read was nobody had JJ+).
Also hitting a T on the turn and we are in a weird spot where if we bet and get called villain has to be calling light.

Just T9/T7 no BDFD seem the worst of all options, we block draws, we don't have great runouts for our hand, and if villain continues on the runouts that help us we'll often be drawing very thin (or getting called light).

When you say "Effective stack depths are around $1k-$1.5k, but not really pertinent in this hand." in your OP, we already know that both of them folded or no more money went into the pot on turn/river. That doesn't necessarily help the discussion.

The logic of "V2 probably had 2nd pair or a draw, but at most, just top pair." works way better if you don't actually block top pair, one of the more likely 2nd pairs (87) and one of the two OESD (97). Trying to fold out hands that you block significantly changes the numbers. Depending on his exact range and suits you're probably blocking 1/3+ of his folding range.

Honestly, it's hard for me to separate my experience playing against V2 specifically from how I think I'd be playing against any random opponent in V2's spot. I know V2 will stab a lot on the flop, but give up with his air-balls and weaker 1P hands on later streets. So I can call his flop bets a lot, without worrying about what I'll do if he continues to barrel.

I kind of think that's how most V's would play the BTN here - stabbing with any 1P, giving up o a later street if they don't improve. I think the value in waiting until the turn to x/r with sets and 2P is that it helps disguise our hand, and also makes it harder for V's to continue when they haven't improved.

So we end up in situations where we flopped 2P or a set and have V's 1P and worse 2P dominated, or we have 1P or 2P when V's draws haven't come in yet, or we flopped a good draw that got there on the turn.

I tend not to over-play 8-out draws on the flop in spots like this, because our draws are somewhat obvious, and V's can relentlessly raise us with all their value hands, and a lot of bluffs.

All that said - I'm definitely not defending my play as being theoretically sound. This one was almost entirely driven by my reads on the two V's.

Yup. In-game, I wasn't looking at the situation that way. I wasn't thinking about the way my hand blocked middle pair or draws. I should have.

In retrospect, my specific hand probably wasn't the best for making the play I did. I knew when I was making it that it could be a massive punt. It was really all about my reads of the two V's, and my view of the situation.

It was fairly reckless, and I got lucky that neither V had a strong enough hand to call me.

I was definitely calling BS on both V's.

I've played with V2 on the BTN a ton. I could never fold top pair, even with a weak kicker, when he stabs on that flop.

That was my first time playing with V1, but I pay A LOT of attention to what my opponents are doing, so I felt like I had a fairly reliable read on him. I felt very sure that if he really had a strong hand, he either would have c-bet when I checked to him, or just over-called behind me.

Thank God neither V called BS on me.

>writes full novel on player descriptions

>hand is just a trivial preflop fold

��

Why are live players like this

Didn't even read postflop