Showing cards when all in (and before decided how many times to run it) do you show?
Bug bearer of mine is people not showing cards . I often shout "cards over!" as you would in a tournament but not eve
No! No way, we would never say that about you. The imposter label applies more to someone who claims to love math while getting personally offended by it.
Now that is funny, I deserved that 😃 but then, you know little about me so here are some snippets -
- Firstly and foremostly, it takes a LOT to offend me and I wasn't offended in the slightest. I was a bit shocked about how black and white some of the advice was and how much basic Math was being spelled out for me, with examples to boot, but I can only assume that is the way things are done around here which is something I have to get used to.
- I am British/Asian, born in the late 60's and grew up in London where I have been (pretty much) ever since.
- My first love was music, I pretend to play a lot of instruments but master none. I have a massive vinyl collection and listen to pretty much every kind, every day. If I had to list my musical gods, they would likely be ABBA, Kraftwerk, Miles Davis, Hendrix with Ustad Vilayat Khan towering over all of them.
- I am a Catholic and went to an early school which was run by nuns (hence the never ending use of the word sorry)
- I hate being told what to do.
- I was a Math whiz from the age of about 10 passing English 'O' level when I was 12 (usually 16) and played a lot of Chess. It runs through my family with an Uncle who is a Math professor and a Mum who taught advanced Economics. Another Uncle introduced me to Poker at about the age of 14 and I have played regularly ever since.
- I was a computer Geek - ZX80/1, Vic20, Amiga and now have a dual loop watercooled i7 with which I hit top 3 in a U.K. overclocking competition, which now gathers dust.
- My poker gods are Dolly, Farha, Hellmuth, Coren and more recently Keating. I believe Hellmuth deserves far more credit than is due to him and the brattishness is just a cover. I've watched poker obsessively since Poker after Dark, am tiring of the WSOP (although I would love to play it one day but do not have the patience for tournaments) and am starting to re-think the value of my PokerGo sub. I spend far too much time in casinos playing live 1/3 to 5/10 mixed with bigger private games every week in London and across a lot of europe and the med.
- I continued study until 18 (English 'A' level) in Math, Statistics, Biology and IT.
- At 18, I found other pleasures more desirable and ditched studying for a degree in favour of going out and earning money.
- At 22 I met the love of my life who I am still fortunately married to. We married in Caesars Palace.
- Worked in I.T. for about 7 years reaching head of technical support (Vax/VMS Mainframe) before heading for the city for the REAL money lol. I then spent the next 3 years bouncing around banks as a Technology consultant before settling at JPM where I worked for around 15 years as a Risk consultant.
- At the age of around 40 I retired, becoming bald, fattened and wishing I had been a musician. Years of 14 hour days with 6 voicemails waiting for me at 7am had killed my mind and body but had bought me a lovely river facing house in central London and a Porsche.
- I have been banned from 2 forums so far because apparently I'm a troll. I'm working on being a better person every day.
- Now aged 57, I play a lot of Piano, do a lot of cooking and gardening. I live in an out of city suburb which is very green in which I can enjoy my Ferrari without fear of a 20Mph camera. We have 4 cats.
- I Love poker.
As of now, I am pretty certain the 108% was set well too low by Rawlz.
A level in math and STATS but doesn't understand the simple math presented around knowns and unknowns.
15 years of Risk work but doesn't instinctively understand incomplete information.
Loves to say he gets "it" and then repeatedly shows he really doesn't but loves to dig in.
Also never seems to hear the Swooooosh of it going right over his head.
Either OP or a world class troll.
Ok, allow me to tackle these one by one as it's getting quite complex for my tiny mind and this is suddenly starting to feel like a visit to the Psychiatrist.
Is there some significance to the number 108 that I'm missing?
Not entirely sure that you are joking (I prefer looking at people and using my instinct) but I can assure you that I am 100% not the OP, but make of me what you will.
A level in math and STATS but doesn't understand the simple math presented around knowns and unknowns.
Ah but I didn't say I attained the qualifications did I. Actually the only 'A' Level I left with was Computer Science because it was the first boy/girl school that I had ever attended and had other things on my mind.
Of course I bloody well understand the Math 😃 but was (a) Looking for a Math head to admit that in certain circumstances Math is useless but more importantly (b) An academic to give me some high level topic that I can read up on.
I did say I am working on my troll like characteristics.
Once again, make of me what you will. I've been told that I am full of contradictions many times before. My genetics are mixed British/Indian/French/Jewish/Irish and Scottish so that might explain it.
If I'm in a certain mood, I always love to dig in and I make no excuses. One of my favourite things about poker is it affords me the opportunity of absolutely destroying those who underestimate me. Sadistic for sure, but unpicking someone's ego when faced with an aged grey man across the table is a secret pleasure and I make no bones about it.
When I said 'I Get it' earlier, I was referring only to the seemingly obvious that I was conversing with a hardened Math guy who may have had some trouble with the chaos that I can sometimes bring into conversation. I can only assume that you didn't get that? and I only said 'I Get it' once so how to you can come to the conclusion that I 'Love' it is way beyond me.
That's quite true 😃 and again, something I have been told many times. On a previous forum, someone made a joke about a parrot that flew over my head or some such bs because I'd missed something simple. I had to look it up and giggled to myself.
That's pretty black and white even if I do say so myself, there is a place in between those two extremes but as per the Monty Hall problem, only you can decide.
I'm here to learn and that's the truth Ruth.
OP struck me as a 25-30 year old know it all which does not compute with the information provided by our new arrogant poster. That being said, I would be willing to pay for an ancestry.com test to prove they share genetics.
OP struck me as a 25-30 year old know it all which does not compute with the information provided by our new arrogant poster. That being said, I would be willing to pay for an ancestry.com test to prove they share genetics.
There are a lot of 'We' and 'Our' references in the posts that I have seen recently, I have to say that if this is some indication of a club that I have to genuflect to be part of then (a) I'm really not interested in joining and (b) Your dissatisfaction with my free thinking honesty will be short lived because if I keep facing these snipes, it won't be long before I get banned.
Please don't do me the discredit of labelling me as someone who is now shouting victim, I'm far too long in the tooth to be playing those cards and I've never hit a 'Report Post' button in my life.
Bluntly put, I'm finding the atmosphere quite un-friendly in this place, within just the last page I have seen far too much accusatory behaviour for my liking.
What the **** you actually know about me (aside from the snippets I have provided) that gives you the latitude to formulate such judgements is way beyond me.
That's not going to happen because it isn't true. You can adjust the math with your reads, but in order to do that you need to have the basics down first.
I'd be interested in finding out what circumstances you think math is useless.
There are a lot of 'We' and 'Our' references in the posts that I have seen recently, I have to say that if this is some indication of a club that I have to genuflect to be part of then (a) I'm really not interested in joining and (b) Your dissatisfaction with my free thinking honesty will be short lived because if I keep facing these snipes, it won't be long before I get banned
Maybe try a better introduction to the forum than your “you are all too stupid to explain a simple math mistake I am making and unable to figure out after 20 plus years of playing poker” approach. Just a thought.
Maybe try a better introduction to the forum than your “you are all too stupid to explain a simple math mistake I am making and unable to figure out after 20 plus years of playing poker” approach. Just a thought.
Maybe try another thought. It might actually be the one that makes you understand that it's you who has made the mistake. More poor judgement.
^^^ What a clown.
Not the I’m rubber, you are glue retort!
Not me, but glad there's someone who's thought differently about the problem.
Cards face up before running it changes your decision is the jist of it.
No one has said that showing cards can’t influence your decision. For some it definitely will, as you have proven.
What has been repeatedly and accurately been said, is that seeing the cards and then deciding how many times to run it does not change the EV.
It only reduces variance. Iow, it reduces the chance for max pain but also reduces the chance for max gain.
Assume we are at the river. Player behind has 1 out. We know 8 cards, 2+2+4 on board, so 44 unknown. Run it once. Behind wins 1 and loses 43 times.RIT. Now first board behind wins 1 of 43 times but if he wins he only gets 50%. For second board, his chances are 1 win and 42 losses but only if he lost first board. So again 1 chance to win, 42 chance to lose, plus 1 chance he has
yes but this loses ground when you run it 10,000 times then you only win 1/10k instead of 1/44
No one has said that showing cards can’t influence your decision. For some it definitely will, as you have proven.
What has been repeatedly and accurately been said, is that seeing the cards and then deciding how many times to run it does not change the EV.
It only reduces variance. Iow, it reduces the chance for max pain but also reduces the chance for max gain.
oh ok. well i still think it's nice to see what your up against, combo draw or a 3 outer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drqwNy0j...
If you watch these guys they always flip them over when running it, even when doing it once.
I guess their hands won't remain secret due to being on tv, but they don't hide them in the actual game either.
So how come THEY have caught my memo and lower stakes don't? :-)
Mods, for the sake of everybody's brain cells, TTHRIC.
Mod: I very rarely lock threads for TTHRIC reasons. Threads run their course when people stop posting in them.
Well it was a good point about the high stakes guys showing their cards... and everyone on here apparently doesn't!
Pros still doing it. live on the tv games. They seem to agree with me
Mod: I wasn’t planning to close the thread, but I will if it’s just one poster responding to themselves repeatedly.
Best close it. keep the thread face down
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drqwNy0j...
If you watch these guys they always flip them over when running it, even when doing it once.
I guess their hands won't remain secret due to being on tv, but they don't hide them in the actual game either.
So how come THEY have caught my memo and lower stakes don't? :-)
Nevermind that I already answered your question on what’s different between televised poker with $400k buy ins and your pub game back on page one.
This video doesn’t even validate what you’re saying. It goes call, Antonius tables his cards (go back and read my post to guess why); the rec asks Antonius how many times he wants to run it; Antonius instantly says run it twice without giving the slightest shit what his opponent’s (face down) cards are.
At any given time there are at least 5 poker streams going on, so posting one clip of one person of repute demanding to see hole cards in a contentious way before deciding how many times to run it wouldn’t prove your point, but you can’t even do that.
OK and Thank-You. Please disregard the question that I asked, I was hoping for a more sophisticated explanation from the guy I quoted, but there you go.I'm asking the question of how the Math works if your outs are in the muck already and the obvious answer is they do not. Math does not work when there an element of incomplete information (obviously) and that is what I was look
There is complete information. You know exactly what card completes your hand, and you know all the possible places where that card can be. It can be in the muck, it can be at the bottom of the deck, it can be in the burn pile, or it could be the next card that’s dealt. Saying “but there’s a situation where it could be physically impossible that it comes out” is already taken into consideration into the probability calculation. That’s just equivalent to all the possible combinations of card positions that don’t end in you winning the hand.
