Tom Dwan - the missing man
How convenient is it that he just falls off the face of the earth after issuing and bailing half way through a 50k hand
Having some symptoms of schizophrenia is not the same thing as having schizophrenia. Being asocial and apathetic are both symptoms of schizophrenia, but they're also relatively common within the wider population of people who don't have a mental disorder.
I was trying to say that you can't claim that Fischer had no mental illness. He was definitely paranoid, and that is not common i think.
Denying or helping somebody else deny a mental problems doesn't help. Some people have schizophrenia and have a fairly normal life when they take their medication. The problems happen when they don't
I was trying to say that you can't claim that Fischer had no mental illness. He was definitely paranoid, and that is not common i think.
Denying or helping somebody else deny a mental problems doesn't help. Some people have schizophrenia and have a fairly normal life when they take their medication. The problems happen when they don't
As a kid/young adult I remember seeing a wild-eyed homeless looking person with a beard outside the LA public library ranting about ‘the Jews’ to no one in particular.
It was Bobby Fischer.
I don’t know exactly what he had, but he wasn’t psychologically sound, unless those words have no meaning.
Having some symptoms of schizophrenia is not the same thing as having schizophrenia. Being asocial and apathetic are both symptoms of schizophrenia, but they're also relatively common within the wider population of people who don't have a mental disorder. 'Better life' is also subjective, particularly in people who have a personality disorder. He could have very well said he
The guy self-published a pamphlet called "I Was Tortured in the Pasadena Jailhouse!" wherein he alleged that the cops rolled up on him, threw him in a cell, and tortured him War on Terror style for some number of days, and then... just released him as though nothing had happened, for some reason. This occurred after like 7 straight years of him being a near-complete recluse.
Even during his playing days there we numerous stories of bizarre behavior in restaurants, worrying that x drink or y steak is poisoned. And, frankly, a billion other known stories of him engaging in behavior which only someone suffering from schizophrenia would.
You're wrong. He was schizophrenic, obviously and severely.
he claimed that all 5 matches of Kasparov-Karpov were rigged, down to the move, and what's more, he can prove it, or at least he could have, before "they" emptied out his storage lockers and stole all his research and memorabilia and stuff
Durrrrr, on the other hand, had a break of some kind which is likely, hopefully, temporary.
No idea who the guy who visited Dwan but no benefit of doubt that he’s just trying to help? There’s white knights in this thread, none in real life?
If he’s in debt not sure if anyone can elaborate
Visit Dwan
?????
Profit
Helping by not encouraging helping treatment?
"He is perfectly ok, I found that myself, and wants to leave!" is not the best help in my book.
Sadly the "us against the system" advice may pop up more for Tom than many others.
Helping by not encouraging helping treatment?
"He is perfectly ok, I found that myself, and wants to leave!" is not the best help in my book.
Sadly the "us against the system" advice may pop up more for Tom than many others.
Not sure if being stuck in a mental institution in a foreign country is the best kind of help. That is not an automatic play in my book.
Anyhow, right or wrong the guy might be trying to help. It’s the intentions we are debating.
Tom needs people who love him to be there. People he trusts.
Hopefully he has that support system.
Unfortunately, the fact that that weirdo got access to him, and used it as an opportunity to exacerbate the situation makes me concerned that Tom doesn’t have the people he needs right now.
I wish him the best, and hopefully he gets better. He’ll need medication.
No idea who the guy who visited Dwan but no benefit of doubt that he’s just trying to help? There’s white knights in this thread, none in real life?
If he’s in debt not sure if anyone can elaborate
Visit Dwan
?????
Profit
His entire Twitter is all anti-vax, covid is fake, not listening to the "authorities", turn off emergency alerts, etc. Seems like a guy you don't talk to if you're having a break-down.
Also, look at him. He's dying to sell you essential oils and magical stones that if you put in ypurpocket, will ward off toxic air particles
Pug, did you ever spend much time with Fischer between 1962-75, or with people who did?
Fischer’s life was exhaustively covered by The New York Times from his first teenaged appearance in the US Open. Alekhine had a personality disorder that made people not like him. Fischer was a basket case by 29 and it took every ounce of effort by his enablers & admirers to even get him to Reykjavik in the first place.
His entire Twitter is all anti-vax, covid is fake, not listen to the "authorities". turn off emergency alerts, etc. Seems like a guy you don't talk to if you're having a break-down.
Also, look at him. He's dying to sell you essential oils and magical stones that if your pocket, will ward off toxic air particles
I saw that post once and don’t feel like digging around for it. But it doesn’t matter as I’m assuming you are joking about him selling stuff.
At any rate, it doesn’t mean being stuck in a mental institution in a foreign country is the right play.
Not sure if being stuck in a mental institution in a foreign country is the best kind of help. That is not an automatic play in my book.
Anyhow, right or wrong the guy might be trying to help. It’s the intentions we are debating.
Trying to help, being not so pro, profit in some way, and being a net negative are not always very distantly related.
Medicine is by the way close to the same in the Western world, The English speaking surrounding is definitely a plus for Tom especially vs psychiatry. Hope the people closest to him have a balanced view, in the end it's up to Tom how he handles it. I'd say this time at the "institution" is a golden opportunity, if handled well.
Often not turning out a fairy tale, but there is the potential it could.
As a kid/young adult I remember seeing a wild-eyed homeless looking person with a beard outside the LA public library ranting about ‘the Jews’ to no one in particular.
It was Bobby Fischer.
I donÂ’t know exactly what he had, but he wasnÂ’t psychologically sound, unless those words have no meaning.
not liking jews doesn’t mean you’re schizophrenic.
im very suspicious whenever people immediately respond to political speech, no matter how outlandish, with “they should be on medication.”
imo a lot of psychiatry is very poorly understood and none of it, absolutely none, is a case where psychiatric drugs are akin to antibiotics curing tuberculosis or vitamin c curing scurvy or parasitic infections being cured by anti parasitical etc in that they just rapidly cure a condition.
there’s always a double edged sword with psychiatric drugs and imo they should be reserved for the most extreme cases, like for actively suicidal/homicidal people, actively hallucinating people, etc. or for people that know the risks and want to take something like a stimulant or entheogen under the care of a doctor for the benefits while trying to manage the risks.
if someone wants to sit outside of a library and rant, whatever. they probably sound brilliant to someone and crazy to someone else. all around the world there are people holding signs and yelling at the sky for any number of reasons, vote for this guy, stop this thing, this person is corrupt, we need money for this. if they decide they want to stop being a ranting in public person and go to talk therapy for it, great. if they don’t, nobody should force them to.
there’s several governments throughout history that have used medication and forced institutionalization to silence political dissidents.
is that happening to Dwan? probably not but I’d rather be on the side of letting dwan post whatever on twitter than setting a precedent where people get put on a 28 day hold and forcibly drugged because they said something the government didn’t like.
Obviously.
im very suspicious whenever people immediately respond to political speech, no matter how outlandish, with ‘’they should be on medication.’’
If you’re implying that I suggested that, I didn’t. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anyone suggesting that, at least ITT (although I’ve heard of others, even politicians suggesting that we jail or deport them).
No matter how repugnant I find Richard Spencer to be, I’d never say that he has a severe psychological disorder, or that he should be put on medication. Or even Alex Jones, for that matter, who acts crazy, but it’s clearly a scam/grift.
It’s called freedom of speech, and it’s fundamental to anyone who believes in liberty.
I guess it’s similar to that Supreme Court judge who said something like I can’t exactly define porn, but I know it when I see it.
If you spend time in LA or anywhere else with a large homeless population, you can recognize craziness (for lack of a better word). Bobby Fischer was acting crazy. He had a mental issue.
there’s always a double edged sword with psychiatric drugs and imo they should be reserved for the most extreme cases, like for actively suicidal/homicidal people, actively hallucinating people, etc.
Totally disagree.
or for people that know the risks and want to take something like a stimulant or entheogen under the care of a doctor for the benefits while trying to manage the risks.
This is an odd thing to say after the above. Seems like a total contradiction.
if someone wants to sit outside of a library and rant, whatever. they probably sound brilliant to someone and crazy to someone else. all around the world there are people holding signs and yelling at the sky for any number of reasons, vote for this guy, stop this thing, this person is corrupt, we need money for this. if they decide they want to stop being a ranting in public person and go to talk therapy for it, great. if they don’t nobody should force them to.
The threshold for being involuntarily held is extremely high in the US, and I imagine it’s probably a bit lower in the UK, but still high. Freaking out on a plane is a big no-no, but I imagine if Tom was immediately asking JD Vance and Donald Trump to intervene via Twitter, it’s good that he’s under supervision and being medicated.
there’s several governments throughout history that have used medication and forced institutionalization to silence political dissidents.
Which ones? Not saying you’re wrong, but I just know of the ones that skip the foreplay and kill dissidents.
is that happening to Dwan?
Obviously not.
I’d rather be on the side of letting dwan post whatever on twitter than setting a precedent where people get put on a 28 day hold and forcibly drugged because they said something the government didn’t like.
He’s not being held for what he posted on Twitter, or for saying something the government didn’t like. That’s absurd. Please show me what Tweets he did that you think caused him to be institutionalized.
Pug, did you ever spend much time with Fischer between 1962-75, or with people who did?Fischer’s life was exhaustively covered by The New York Times from his first teenaged appearance in the US Open. Alekhine had a personality disorder that made people not like him. Fischer was a basket case by 29 and it took every ounce of effort by his enablers & admirers to even get him to R
And the other greatest American of all time, Paul Morphy, was a recluse who had completely stopped playing by his mid-20s and was known for collecting/hoarding women's shoes, apparently, he had hundreds of pairs of women's shoes and would dance around them. He then died of syphilis at 34 or something like that. All details approximate, working off of old memory here.
Single-minded pursuits of excellence in an individual game like chess is not exactly conducive to strong mental health. Live poker like what Dwan plays is way, way more of a social game, so the aforementioned type of mental illness isn't too much of a concern here, but psychosis after burning oneself out on sick hours spent gambling while on uppers is.
Pretty sure Alekhine had Aspergers or was at least on the spectrum in some way (obv unknown stuff in his day)
😃
that guy is such a clown, which is why I still brag about stacking him in a 1/2nl side game people ran at this one chess tournament even though it was like 15 years ago... which maybe says more about me than him, but whatever
If ESPN had been around in 1975 the bottom scroll would’ve read “CHESS—Fischer (USA) OUT (Schizophrenialike symptoms)”
And the other greatest American of all time, Paul Morphy, was a recluse who had completely stopped playing by his mid-20s and was known for collecting/hoarding women's shoes, apparently, he had hundreds of pairs of women's shoes and would dance around them. He then died of syphilis at 34 or something like that. All details approximate, working off of old memory here.Single-mi
I never even heard of this guy but is it possible it was the syphyllis that was rotting his brain?
I never even heard of this guy but is it possible it was the syphyllis that was rotting his brain?
I remember Morphy as one of the masters flashing by in my youth when I played some chess. Googled, looks he just chose to more or less quit after winning everything at age 22. Failed as a lawyer (had money though) and then went insane quite some later.
He didn't see chess as something to concentrate on, no matter how good. Those were the times.
Not sure if being stuck in a mental institution in a foreign country is the best kind of help. That is not an automatic play in my book.
He's in the UK, not Kyrgyzstan.
im very suspicious whenever people immediately respond to political speech, no matter how outlandish, with “they should be on medication.”
"Save me JD Vance!" is not a political statement.
You really wouldn’t mind being held against your will in a mental institution in a foreign country?
Yeah sure it might not be a Turkish prison but something to avoid as obviously better to be home close to whatever support system he may have. Be quiet and take meds would never be my default play.
Imagine how crazy it must be to not only play in all the biggest games in the world but be a genuine threat and able to make millions and millions of dollars playing since you were a teenager. That has to warp your brain and that's before you consider all the other forms of craziness that surely happens in those circles.
