Thank You! Good Luck to you in Vegas.See you soon.
I miss you not working on nights, it's so boring without you here. Besides that I just wanted to let you know you're in all my prayers and I hope you get through all this.
Don't expect logic when dealing with Chicago card rooms.
I used to think it was the the floor people's fault for their lack of public relation skills, and their ability to handle the job accordingly. A particular pair of floor people there are truely unable to do their jobs and have very little knowledge of poker period. The older unattractive lady there is a poor excuse for a floor person. She is rude and very sarcastic when asked a logical question that pertains to someones needs.
There was this situation yesterday. A guy misread his hand and it was a good size pot.
There was 6 players in the hand. It was a pre-floped raise. The flop came 5'h 9'h and k's. First person bet and the rest called. Turn came a 6'h, first person ckecked, the next person bets, and call,call,call and call. River came an A'd, First person bet, second person raised then then the rest folded and the first person called. First person said,I got A's and K's two pairs. Then second person said I got a flush, 7'd and 10'd. So the first person just mucked without looking the hand of the other one. He trusted him with his words. And when his cards touched the muck the card flipped up but it was considered a dead hand because he throw the cards faced down.So every one saw his cards that he got two pairs and the other guy misread his hand, saying that he got a flush(hearts) but his cards were diamonds. The guy with the misread hand got the chips and said,sorry man I thought I got a flush. The guy with the two pairs was really very upset because they have been playing for years and pulled that move on him.
Let me ask you for you opinion. What are you going to do if you happened to be in this situation. Are you taking the pot even if you know you got the losing hand?
In my opinion, if I was the one who misread the head, I will give the pot to the other person since I saw his hand, just for courtesy purposes and out of respect. It's only chips. It will come back next time.
I had a situation Saturday night where I tabled my AK with 3 other players still in at the showdown. My nut nothing apparantly stood up(!!!) as the others all mucked.
As I was stacking the chips, one of the others, a fairly new player, realized that he had paired one of the small cards on the board, but his hand was facedown in the muck. From his body language, I was certain that he did indeed have me beat, but I never considered giving him the pot, and in fairness, he realized he had made a mistake, and never bitched about it at all. Protect thine hand at all times.
In this case, if I had misread my hand and had been called down at the end, I would without hesitation give the other player the pot. One small pot is not worth it to me to lose my self-respect, even if I am technically in the right.
What you did here is a completely different situation. We have all mucked a winner after mis-reading another players hand.
1st rule of poker protect your hand.... and that means:
Don't muck until you are sure you are beat
Don't expose your hole cards
Prevent your cards from being hit by other players discards or an inadvertent dealer pick up...
Its your responsibility to read the board and other players hands... if you can't do that... I'll have a seat reserved for you at the 20/40 at Hollywood tonight!!
If he misread his hand on purpose... then this guy is an angle shooter... just above a cheat in my book. Watch this guy very closely in future games as I'm sure he has learned more than one angle to shoot.
Of course you can accidentally misread your hand... and although it is the players responsibility to protect thier own hand... I push them the pot if I make this error.
Could you provide me an in depth description of what an angle shooter is? I haven't heard the term used before and I am sure that the Chairman will not take the time to explain it to me.
An angle is a ploy to get someone to reveal clues about the strength of their hand, or influence the playing of their hand. Conceivably an enterprising shooter could build a lexicon or hundreds of angles. The most common angles involve fakes, or telegraphing intentions to bet or fold before it is one’s turn to act.
Example: Player one bets, and as player two ponders player three behind him picks up enough chips to reraise and seems eager to put them in. Player two may just call (either because he can’t stand a reraise, or because he wants to checkraise). Third player then simply calls. Player three has prevented player’s two’s raise. Player two may even fold his hand if believes a raise is coming behind him.
Example: Player one bets, and before player two acts, player three holds his cards by the edge as if he is ready to pitch them into the much. Player two assume three is mucking, so he calls the original bet. Player three then raises. The fake added the second player’s call to the pot.
Example: This was especially cute: on the river player one checked, player two had hidden his cards with his hand and knocked over a stack of chips towards the center of the table and started to pick them up, one at a time. Player three asked player one if he had checked. One said yes. Player three then SHOWED HIS HAND, not realizing that player two had cards. Player two insisted the checks he had left on the table is his bet and player three must call with his exposed hand, or fold. The floor supported him, saying that three should have been aware how many players were in at the showdown.
I’ll leave the legality and morality comments to someone else.
I consider your last example to be an angle, but the first two really aren't. They are merely reverse tells, IMO.
Now, if the third player had said "Raise", or had put the chips for a raise into the pot, knowing that action out of turn is not binding, then that would be an angle.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
This is why I ducked the ethics part. Say you play for a living and seek every advantage not specifically forbidden by the establishments you patronize. Is it okay to seek information or alter your opponents play through artifice and strategem?
I don't pretend to have an answer.
I witnessed the following angle in a 10-20 stud game at Commerce some years back. I had BS'd with Player A (the angle shooter) once or twice and I guess he thought he could share his scam with me.
The scene on sixth street: Player A has three aces, two on top. Player B (victim) has split two pair, jacks up or something, looking to draw out. A bets, B calls. River: A bets blind. B peeks, grabs a stack, and proceeds to cut out two bets. A does a quick thumb flip to read his river card then pulls it on top of his other two hole cards, squeezing them. Noticing B raising, he confidently announces "Aces Full" and throws his hole cards face up. The ace and one of his hole kickers are exposed, but the river card is temporarily sweat or heat glued to the bottom of the kicker so only six cards show. The dealer reminds A that there's been a raise. A acts dumfounded, quickly recovers his hole cards, and announces reraise. At this point B is looking at him incredulously. A says, "All I can do is hope you think I'm trying to steal the pot and pay me, otherwise I really blew this hand. I was pat full on fifth street." It worked, B pitched his jacks full open faced toward the muck. I was sitting next to A and he gave me a clandestine peek of his river card - a blank. Talk about balls. I felt sorry for B but didn't say anything. Perhaps I should have?
I heard about this from a couple of guys and quite frankly couldn't believe it. Since i've played with you, you have always been a gentleman and NEVER out of line. Whatever the reason i would consider that a one time occurence an am sure it won't happen again.I guess it shows the game can get to everybody at some point and when emotions run high as they do in poker it tends to happen.Having said all that i'll never understand why players blame dealers for good/bad cards as though the dealers have any control over what they deal.As a poker player i just want the dealer to be able to control the game an move it along quickly in other words do their job.Making sure they bring good or bad luck to any particular player is not in their job description nor should it be.Dealers are people just like us let's try to treat them that way.Lar
Larry, I agree with you 100%. You are truely a model for all Poker players to follow. Maybe you next book should be on this subject.
Good Man Tony - Good Man
I wouild like to say that for the majority of the players that come to Hollywood Casino and play poker, they are the most freindly and courtious people I have met. Not only are the regulars that play there a classy group but they also make dealing to them enjoyable and entertaining. I'm glad I got the opportunity to meet these fine people and get to know them. I owe it all to Uncle Bob for bringing me aboard and giving me a chance to continue working in a poker room in the Chicago area. OH!!!! And I guess I owe you too R.M.
Thanks Uncle Bob!!!!!
Unless the local "card rooms" institute regular tournaments I will never play here again.
On-line sucks - I'll wait until I re-establish myself out west.
Of course there is always the honorable way out.
Don't look for me to be getting off the elevator any day soon.
Timmie, you said that because it was friday and the floor knew that the game would go, and all other comments should be disregarded. This is absurd. The rule for whether the player has the option to get back into the game he is leaving should be the same regardless of what day it is. What if it was Monday and the game had less of a chance of going off, or will he be allowed to re-enter his previous game since it's Monday. The bottom line is that this player is currently playing in a game he is going to leave that game to help the casino start a new game, whether the new game is his game of choice or not he must be protected in some form. The player that will take the seat of the player that is leaving the game should be informed that he may be ask to get up if the new game does not start, and the player should be given his seat back. The worst case scenario for the player leaving his seat is that he be first on the list to enter the game he left.
This was my thoughts exactly MEE. This cardroom manager has no compassion for the players and and no idea where the players are coming from. LOL.... to the best of my knowledge I'm not sure he ever played cards before. Thanks for the support.
Well I actually have some experience in running rooms and have worked with the manager of harrah's e.c. He tries to make the games good but from time to time he installs rules that are not player friendly. Too many times card room personnel get wrapped up in an adversarily role with the players. All rules can and should be installed to make the game friendly as well as protecting the integrity of the game.
I heard a report on the news that said George W.'s daddy pulled similar pranks when Clinton moved in. kFunny how it wasn't until Spoiled little George W. moved in that it came to light. It was a prank and should be handled as such. As far as pardons didn't GOP president Ford pardon Nixon. Anothe rthing that baffles me is that GOPer made such a big deal that Clinton tried marijuana in college. Yet George W. was hooked on coke and has a DUI charge on his record. Huh, I'm sure D.A.R.E. officers are already having nightmares "you will never amount to anything if you use drugs." Little booy responds, "I can be president." Just a thought.
Quit snortin free-base-in crack cocaine, and pull the bug out of your ass while your at it, then you'll be able to spell scumbee.
When I was a kid growing up in Florida in the 70's.Every teenager wanted a Trans-Am sports car.The car that was used in the movie "Smokey and the Bandit". The one car that no one wanted to be seen anywhere near, was the Pinto. The car that used to blow up, when hit from behind.
I should have updated my examples. My bad.
You only needed to update it a decade for me. The General Lee vs. Rosco's police car would have been fine :-).
I am at work, and I was just lurking on 2 & 2 for a while, when I read the thread "DRAWING TO THE NUTS. BETTING QUESTION," right as a friend/co-worker/superior walked by. I really wish the site could be read more discreetly!!!
Not at work...:-(
argue-mentive is my middle name
Response-obsessive is mine.
Not my fault they mucked the winning hand. I didn't hit that doggie.
He shows his lack of morals that he demonstrates in his profession. Crooked attorneys are disgusting!
You must always watch out for lawyers... reason being they are taught something in law school that we as rational human beings have a hard time with. It is know as "situational ethics". People with situational ethics are a bitch to deal with since you never know where they stand. A country western song writer once wrote... "You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything!"...
I think he hit the nail on the head.
Lawyers have a lot of power (well, some of them). As such, when they do something bad, it can often hurt a bunch of people. However, I have little doubt that we're no worse than the typical person in any other profession, we just have more potential to do harm.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
I agree that some lawyers have a lot of power to hurt. But I know just as many lawyers that use that power to help. It's probably a wash. Maybe the ethical variance of lawyers is just larger?
As far as "situational ethics" goes, when someone finally comes up with a prescriptive set of ethics that every single living person agrees with, and which ethical model has absolutely no room for interpretation with regard to any little facet, I will gladly be a lawyer without a job.
or underemployed. Does your boss know that you illegally gamble, and surf the internet all day on his nickel?
"we just have more potential to do harm. "
Does the name "Atilla" have any meaning here?
Or the LAPD.
just curious SPM what are you drinkin when a typin lyrics.
I don't know...
I noticed this post on RGP today by Terrance Chan about the results of a Vancouver game of RPGers with one outsider..
On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:04:17 GMT, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
>YOU LET A NON-RGPer win the RGP game??? For shame!
Worse, Larry is a former RGPer (look under email@example.com) who is now a 2+2er. Booooooo!
Although, I gotta say, he's a player.
boo hoo...I wasn't invited:)
Wednesday evening and the poker hour was approaching. The SPM was running late, and still recovering from the beating he took on Tuesday. Bad investments! Bad advice! Bad day!
The casino poker room was buzzing with seven full action games and the SPM was on the long list. We'll gang, you know what time it is, Yes! It's time for The EPIC Buffet, dinning the institutionalized way. All comps accepted no waiting, unless there is a line.
After an underwhelming dinner the SPM managed to get into a 1-5 seven card stud game. His first warm up hand of the evening was a straight on sixth street. First win and moving immediately to the 10-20 hold'em shoot out.
To nights cast includes, in random order, The River Master, Break Your Legs Wally, The Artful Dodger, and is dog Jason, a cameo appearance by The King of The Straddle, (don't look for him again) and introducing Mr Ten Pins.
The SPM sits down with everyone mentioned above except for The Artful Dodger (TAD).
Everyone learning the game of hold'em should have a Rock from the Valley. The Rock would teach you the ways of the Force, that lead to the winners circle. I choose the Artful Dodger. And he's been dodging my questions for years. The problem is this, he put so much time and energy into training his dog Jason. He is reluctant to take on another student. In fairness TAD does throw the SPM a bone once in awhile. Look for his pearls of wisdom in the New Adventures of The SPM, coming out in the Spring, maybe.
Back to the game, the SPM plays his first hand from the big blind, pocket sevens, Break Your Legs Wally (BYLW) raises from somewhere. Four way action taking the flop, Q 9 9, bet says the SPM, raise replies BYLW, back in your face shouts the SPM. By the turn and river the SPM is turned into a calling station, BYLW brings the SPM to his knee, with pocket queens, floped a full house. Note to SPM: Play dumb, chip reduction.
The first time at bat on the button, the SPM peeks at his cards, Pocket Aces, maybe 1 or 2 limpers, SPM RAISE! The dog Jason calls one bet from the big blind, a few of us saw the flop. Q J x, no need to tell you the whole story. SPM, beat on the flop by the dog Jason, top two pair. Two stacks vanished in two hands.
Mr Ten Pins a regular high-low player and a graceful any two card hold'em player. Sits to the left and next to the SPM. Old Ten Pins was having a winning night, with stacks and stacks of chips piled high. The cards had stopped coming his way for the moment and he was in coast mode.
The SPM calls a raise cold on the button with A-10 of spades, five players already in. Mr Ten Pins in the small blind, makes it three bets to go, he's not coasting now and we got action in Aurora. The ending result of the hand, the SPM's equity position in the game was reduced by another stack. K 10 of diamonds, Mr Ten Pins takes the pot with two pair. He makes it look easy. Anyone put him on that hand?
It appeared the SPM was receiving his quarterly statistical cleansing sooner than expected. A Statistical cleansing is this; your winning, session after session, your hourly win rate is far above your ability to play. You are on a collision course with destiny, a statistical cleansing to adjust your hourly rate to it's proper level, usually below minimum wage.
The SPM was totally against the concept of receiving an early statistical cleansing. What could he do to delay the inevitable. Border Town! Yes, he could tap into his emotional energy and let the Force deliver him from the evil hands of destruction.
Q7 the computer hand wins 80% of the time, the SPM wins on the turn. J9 off SPM winner early position. The SPM slips into Valley mode and when the enemy relaxes pocket JJ, on the turn the SPM has a set wins a good one and all chips have returned home.
Staying out of the way of the River Master was the wisest decision of the day. He bet the flop, why call him, a set on the flop. They all followed the River Master, the SPM did not.
The SPM now back in Valley mode wins a few more pots. Then another emotional sighting and back to BT where more rags beat group one, two and three hands. It's Border Town and any two cards can win.
SPM,...sometimes a little emotional out burst helps...
Great story. Way to recoup! Sounds like you've put a new battery in the homing device of your reconaissance chips.
I need your e-mail address. The old one will not go through.
"Dining the institutionalized way."" BRAVO
I think I have two e-mail addresses now. Try firstname.lastname@example.org first. I also have one at email@example.com or firstname.lastname@example.org (not sure if it's com or net at the end).
Mrs. SPM must be out of town.
No she's home, I started the post at 12:30am. Sometimes you just stare at the screen and no words come out.
Woke up early the next day, went to the game early also, but it was a Tilt show. Details under winning ugly.
SPM,...I love this game...
I've never understood that saying "You can't prove a Negative." Could you give me an easy, non-sarcastic example of why you can't prove a negative?
Please, No help from Vince LaBore.
Prove to me that I will never flop a royal flush. When you state a negative, you are stating that something cannot happen ever. I can always say "if you wait a little longer I think it will happen". Since you don't reach the end of time, you can't prove a negative. Since a prediction can only be proven by an occurrence (eg, I predict I will flop a royal, and I do it), a negative must be proven by a non-occurrence. However a non occurrence is only temporary, whereas an occurrence is a fixed proof.
Of course, the statement is in itself an oxymoron. Maybe if you wait until tomorrow, I can prove a negative! Hope that makes sense.
I say to you "I've never told a lie." You say "Prove it!" But, how can I? I cannot recall nor prove the entirety of everything I've ever said, nor can I prove that all of it was true. Even if I somehow could, it would take many, many years to do so.
However, if you said "Greg, you're a liar", and I said "prove it", you could do so merely by proving that I lied in any one single instance. Much easier to prove.
Basically, it's a numbers thing. Some negatives can be proven, but only if a relatively small number of events are involved. In that case, proving the negative isn't much different than proving the positive of the opposite. If the issue is a boxer stating "I've never lost a professional heavyweight match", this is really the same as proving the positive statement that he has won all of these matches. However, the positive statement "I've always told the truth" is just as hard to prove as "I've never told a lie."
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Yes, its a numbers thing... there are many negatives you can prove (or disprove).... "You never call me", "I didn't say that", etc...
But when you are dealing with an absolute statement (e.g. never, always, etc.) and the time span is great it becomes more difficult. However, it will only take one occurrence to prove the negative, or disprove, the positive. ....its just a cliché' don't get too hung up on it.
I agree that I am a Bore. So why are you silly enough to read anything I post. Please do not Bore yourself in the future by reading something of mine. I will certainly return the favor.
Have a nice life. Please stay out of mine.
I've been doing a little thinking. Assuming the securities markets are fairly efficient, i.e. they reflect publicly held information and past prices efficiently and correctly, then I claim the majority of stock guru's have just caught off their ass, like a pisser at the 3-6 table. And because they made so much money they became "experts."
If there are 10 million investors, people are bound to get lucky. Assuming, there is a 50% chance of picking at random a stock that will go up (i believe the ratio is higher than this but anyways), some people who think they are great analysts, are getting lucky. For example, the probability of guessing correctly 10 times in a row is 1/1024 or 1/(2^10). Multiply that by 10,000,000 investors and a lot of people are guessing correctly ten times in a row. I don't have a calculator handy, but someone is out there picking 23 stocks at random correctly in a row. Also, they need not win all of them in a row, just a healthy majority for their whole lifetime, say 3/4. People are in their, with no skill, blindly catching an calling themselves experts.
Sort of the old joke about 10 million monkeys in a coin flipping tournament, the winner thinks he is the best coin flipper in the world.
This just never occured to me before.
Warren Buffett writes about this in Ben Graham's, "The Intelligent Inverstor." In it he tracks fellow Graham/Newman employees who left to start their own funds. All of them were beating the market.
Is anyone aware where one can play poker (Hold-Em) in the Boca, Delray, Boynton area? Preferred stakes are 10-20 but would go lower for a good game.
Brief response....Poker has not been legalized in FL. Don't even consider the Indian Reservations.
Look at the responses to the same question you asked in Texas Hold'em/General.
you seem a little confused, yeah you
Attention: All you Hollywood fish..errr..I mean nice poker-playing gentlemen and ladies..heh.
Am BACK! And I have over-flowing coffers that were filled by the vegas pros. Brought you all souveneirs too..see ya this week..missed ya!
P.S. The Chairman was decked out in vegas..a suit jacket every single day! And he looked adorable too..I gave him my room key and waited....and waited....then went down and dragged his sorry butt up!..hehe..just kidding...See ya'll soon.
See you next week, Grandson and Daughter in town.
Glad to hear you did well in Vegas... please don't abuse the Midwestern eggs too badly with all your increased knowledge from poker meca!
P.S. Don't forget to sign up for 20/40 on Thursday!!
Yeah I missed that sweet little plump fanny of yours, hoped to spank it a your local casino soon, later.
...and no jostling
15-30 Stud at the Bellagio. Am the forced bet with deuce of hearts. Have three & four of hearts in the pocket. Four callers, no raise. Turn gives me a five of hearts for an open-ended str8 flush draw. Checked by three players, guy with a five of clubs door card and an Ace of diamonds bets out. I raise, hoping to either buy a draw on fifth or get the extra bet in if I hit. Guy re-raises, everyone folds. I call. Fifth street I get an Ace of spades..raiser gets an eight of spades. He bets out. I raise. Now here is where the fun begins. Its head up..unlimited raise. He re-raises..I re-raise. This guy went through three stacks of red before he stopped betting on five. I was totally knocked out. This guy is a regular at the tables. He gets in two more raises on sixth street and finally just calls my bet at the river. I turn over my str8 and he looked at it for the longest time before mucking without saying a word. Does anyone have a clue as to what he held?
P.S. On the last day of my trip he finally told me what he had.
Trip Aces would be my guess, may have slow played trip 5's. Poor play either way as the case ace and 5 were out. Well played on your part.
He had split fives with an ace kicker...hit the ace on the turn.
What amazed me is this: He has Aces and fives..after the umpteenth raise from me on fifth, you would think he would realize that not only did I hit the wheel, but it only leaves him two outs to beat it.
"Does anyone have a clue as to what he held? "
maybe he was semibluffing with his Ace on forth st. to buy the pot, then when you raised him he re-raised to get it headsup. Then on fifth st. he made his hand but you made a nicer one. Of course he could of had rolled up 5's, or even pocket Aces and slow-played them but got trapped himself instead. He must have thought you were on a heart or str8t draw but you would think he would slow down a little on fifth when you kept coming back at him.
Well not only did I think the move was warranted, it was proven correct.
But you can argue with success if you want to...this is America.
desire you asked;
Does anyone have a clue as to what he held?
The man held his ego in his hand, no women can out play me. I hope you at least gave him some insight to his fuzzy thinking. You know the pulic announcement "I got a little Somethin somethin."
SPM,...another male ego, hug out to dry... :- )
Suppose in a mysterious island that on any day there's a 50% chance of rain and a 50% chance of sunshine.
In this universe, the economy is only made of bananas and apples.
A banana is worth 3 apples when it rains and 1 apple when it shines.
With this information, we calculate that the price of a banana is (.5) * 1 + (.5) * 3 = 2 apples.
So far everything seems just great, we are very confident and we want to calculate the price of an apple.
An apple is worth 0.3333 banana when it rains and 1 banana when it shines.
The price of an apple is (.5) * 1 + (.5) * (1/3) = .6666 banana
OOOPS! What's going on? From our first calculation the apples should be worth 0.5 bananas. What’s wrong?
Sorry fruit is out of season. Return with paradox in the summer.
SPM,...off to the next post...
Fairly straight forward Renaud... what you have described is a financial system that functions as if it were basically two countries or one country with currency valuations not linked.
Siegal’s paradox is merely an observation and not an actual paradox at all. It says that if two investors from different countries have the same expectation of the probable distribution of future exchange rates, the expected returns of the two currencies are not offsetting. In other words… the current exchange rate of U.S. dollars per pound equals 1.5 and a U.S. investor and a U.K. investor both expect it to change to 1.6. The expected return of the dollar from the U.K. investor's perspective equals -6.25%, whereas the expected return of the pound from the U.S. investor's perspective equals 6.67%
Get it.. got it… GOOD!
Just took a min. No big deal boss!
Is there a way to make money from this paradox? It sounds like there should be.
No. It's just a way of looking at what will or is likely to happen to money based upon different currency exchange rates.
Any game that has two Doctors sitting next to each other is a Paradox. They play for fun and have no problem giving you their money.
SPM,...glad I was able to help, thank me later...
The SPM arrived at the Casino on tilt, no one knows why he was on tilt but there he was with a full blown case of tilt. What does tilt look like, heck that's easy, any 2 cards form any position at any moment in time without rhyme or reason. And one more important ingredient a whole case of Mr Tilt's favorite attitude "I don't care."
At first no one noticed because the SPM was getting some goooooooood cards and before long he was up almost 4 stacks. He even pushed through a couple of hands that not even Mr Cappy would play and still nobody noticed. I do believe he even smacked the Chairman of the Board around a couple of times. You don't want to do that too many times, he's got a memory like an elephant. Plus he had his voodoo doll Mr Rupert, good thinking the floor move him to the main game, he can do some real voodoo damage with that voodoo doll.
The Artful Dodger's dog Jason was in the game, but no Dodger. When there's no Dodger around to control his dog Jason, he turns into Big Dog with attitude in tow. You don't want to beat him when he holds a big hand and no Dodger to make him sit. He will turn on the false charm and say nice hand, but the attitude is right behind the statement, and you could cut it with a knife. Big Dog has big ego, but his bark is bigger than his bite. When he left the game he said, " I like the Chairman, and I respect his game." It wasn't easy for Big Dog to say that, most players he'd just rather chew them up, he is Big Dog and it's their nature to chew up the competition.
Full blow tilt is a rather common disease like the common cold. The cure for Tilt, is still un-know like the cure for the common cold. Usually tilt ends when the last chip is put into the center of the table, and the credit cards are maxed out. By the dinner bell the SPM had lost all of his lead and was two stacks down from his original purchase of chips. A miracle rag hand saved the SPM and he went to the 50's cafe for dinner, up two red chips.
Cheese Burger, cheese burger, cheese burger, the waiter kept yelling orders into the short order cook. "I'll have a stake medium" says the SPM, cheese burger, fries, diet cook says the waiter. Okay says the SPM. "Can I have thick shake to go," the waiter gives him a side wise look, "okay" he says.
While eating the SPM has a talk with the players in his head. Mr Tilt, "hey guys I had our chips stacked pretty high, huh?" Zen Master replys, "grass hoper you play too many hands, your emotions out of control, you need to repeat mantra TIGHT & AGGRESSIVE." "Oh kiss my raise" says Mr. Tilt, "I'm just giving them some action, I got this game under control." The team accountant jumps in, "you do realize you have all our chips on the table, and no reserve" Mr Tilt, don't worry be happy!" The Little Rock speaks up, "is it my turn to play yet?" Mr Tilt, "you don't play, your a mucking station, we need action and that's what we are going to get." Mr Reason, throws his two cents in, "But, Mr Tilt I don't like the roller coaster rides, it disagrees with my sense-abilities." "Too bad replies" the rude Mr Tilt, "I'm in charge today and lets just eat in peace, end of conversation."
Returning to the game, Mr Tilt lives up to his expectations, down two and a half stacks. "Playing a lot of hands SPM," someone says, "you got that right" says Mr Tilt. Then Mr. Tilt looks at his cards and he sees 74 suited in hearts. Didn't the Babbling Brooks say hearts were the easiest flush to make. "Yes!" Replies Mr Tilt, as he calls the raise cold. Flop has one heart, for a runner runner back door flush & a runner runner back door straight potential. Bet raise, "CALL," says Mr Tilt. The turn, four to a flush and a gut card straight possible. The lead better bets, Mr Tilt raises with potential, the pot is huge. The river a flush card. All check to Mr Tilt who bets, crying calls around and 74 of hearts is todays nuts.
Even, and up 1 ½ stacks, Mr Tilt is tackled by the players in his head. They tie him up and rack up the chips and leave. Mr Tilt is very angry with the head gang, "I was just getting started on a rush," he yells, but the gang in the head just tune him out. Next time they'll just leave him at home.
SPM,...saved by the gang in the head, might be a good time to call Dr. B.F. Skinner...
THERAPY HAS DONE WONDERS FOR ME SUBURBAN..............NICE HAND NICE HAND NICE HAND NICE HAND NICE HAND NIK HAN NIK HAN NNNIKE HADN NIKE HAAAAN RUFF RUFF RUFF........GL2U ALWAYS A PLEASURE TO BE IN YOUR COMPANY, BUT YOU GOTTA GET THE REAL TIP MOBILE BACK, ALSO PLEASURE TO PLAY WITH MIKE FINALLY AND SEE HOW A YOUNGER PLAYER IS SUPPOSED TO ACT .
Okay Big Dog,
I told everyone that your Big Dog, you can go head and use the lower case letters now. Use the upper case letters for the first letter of a sentence and for proper names. Your post is hurting my vision. Please find out how to use lower case letters, after your last post I could not blink my eyes for four hours.
SPM,...able to leap tall odds with a single card, ruff ruff...
I had Mr.Tilt in MY head last night and he could not have been in yours. In fact, Mr.Tilt appears to be wintering in my head.
The Tilt family is very large, let me give you the short list so you can find out which one is following you to the game.
Mr No Reason To Tilt, just likes action.
Uncle Bad Beat Tilt, he usually only stays around for a few hands, unless he loses more than one big hand. Then he doesn't leave till all the chips are gone.
Miss Clueless Tilt, doesn't know she's on tilt, thinks in one dimension, call.
Tiny Tilt, one heck of guy, lives to play cards badly.
Up the Stakes Tilt, from California, does not know you can call a bet. Raises all bets to the next level.
Cousin Last Round Tilt, always reduces his win the last round, or increases his lose.
Betty Tilt, knows how to bet, unfamiliar with the concept of winning.
Lay Down Tilt, believes all river bets are the nuts, always releases to a river bet.
Dr Tilt, working on a cure for tilt, gathering info while researching, expected to stop tilting in the next millennium.
SPM Tilt, no rhyme or reason, catches tilt like a bad cold.
SPM,...use soap to wash that tilt right out of your head...
You forgot Mason Tilt; comes by for a visit after you have been losing with group 1 hands all night and whispers "What do those guys know...I bet they never sat in a low limit game like THIS one...hey look, those cards are SUITED! Take this one upstairs!"
This individual is a constant companion with me at the table.
and my all time personal favorite...
Monkey see monkey do tilt.
Just wanted to say that it was nice to meet Roy Cooke at the Bellagio. I walked up, introduced myself and inquired about upgrading Planet's software. He was very informative and was a pleasure to speak with. Also I shook hands with Mason and Sklansky when they were huddled in conversation. Mason was very sweet and even asked that I tell the other players in from Illinois to come up and say hello while in town. David was looking better than I have ever seen him. Bellagio has a great room but the action was scanty in the mornings. Had a wonderful time, the staff was wonderfully accomodating, as always.
I will state this about the regulars. They seem to be the most uneducated in regards to treating tourists at the tables. They will try to school them..always being sure to tell them how they sucked out on the river or played a hand poorly. It was amazing to me that they smack their bread and butter around like that. Had a great time..can't wait to go back. :)
Vegas is the capital of gambling.... Since the stream of tourists is non-stop, I guess they figure they can get away with it.
Give me a California card room any day!!
Less pros, nicer people, good action, good food... they got it all.
I hope you did not take any of their advice. Seems they were not smart enough to throw away a losing hand.
SPM,...Happy your back...
Am happy to be back. Hope you take time out from your grandbaby's visit to come play. See ya soon.
And don't let Observer get to ya...after all, you'd be grouchy too if you had to pay for sex.
I can't believe that players would comment on another person's play. I never here that in this room.he-he. Hurry home, we miss you.
Have you fished the new rod yet?
casted it, but into a (unknown to me at the time) barren stream in Hawaii. Casts like a dream. Can't wait until april tofeel the thump thump thump of a 'bow.
Got no back bone do you Anonymous. You make claims to fame and no poof to back it up. So you say you have beaten me and will continue to beat me. No claim to fame there. Anyone can beat me out of hand, even a game, but you'll never get rich trying to beat me. Aren't you smart enough to understand the only competition in hold'em is yourself. No, I guess you don't, the clueless just never get it.
Like I said I've counted my chips and none are missing and I've got extras. I guess you better just stick to trying to beat me, obvious you can't beat anyone else. You sound like someone with emotional problems, do wear tights, do you break legs, are you and every time kind of guy. Who ever you are you should probably stay anonymous. Once the players find out your real ID, I'm sure they will all have a good laugh.
See you at the game, oh yes, I forgot, you'll be anonymous.
SPM,...talking to someone whose anonymous, or an Observer...
You seem a little confused....yeah you
I just sent you an email. It came back:
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- The Terms and Conditions state "While you are free to post on the 2+2 website using an alias, you may not post pretending to be someone else."
Do you have an explanation?
The original message was received at Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:27:23 -0500 (EST) from mail5.mia.bellsouth.net [220.127.116.11]
*** ATTENTION ***
Your e-mail is being returned to you because there was a problem with its delivery. The address which was undeliverable is listed in the section labeled: "----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----".
The reason your mail is being returned to you is listed in the section labeled: "----- Transcript of Session Follows -----".
The line beginning with "<<<" describes the specific reason your e-mail could not be delivered. The next line contains a second error message which is a general translation for other e-mail servers.
Please direct further questions regarding this message to your e-mail administrator.
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to air-yc05.mail.aol.com.: >>> RCPT To: .
I've been reflecting upon it, and it may be more than a case of arrested emotional development (meaning deep-seated introversion with negative self-esteem). It is possible that that the mystery poster(s) is (are) shut-in(s) with severe physical limitation. In either case, this dialog may be therapeutic for them.
Aside from discontinuing the repartee because it's intellectually pointless, it is morally reprehensible to torment the handicapped.
Posted by: Jake (email@example.com)
Posted on: Friday, 2 February 2001, at 9:46 p.m.
Posted by: I feel sorry for you
Posted on: Saturday, 3 February 2001, at 4:47 p.m.
Posted by: Jake (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Posted on: Sunday, 4 February 2001, at 9:23 p.m.
The Terms and Conditions state "While you are free to post on the 2+2 website using an alias, you may not post pretending to be someone else."
Do you have an explanation?
The original message was received at Fri, 2 Feb 2001 21:27:23 -0500 (EST) from mail5.mia.bellsouth.net [18.104.22.168]
*** ATTENTION ***
Your e-mail is being returned to you because there was a problem with its delivery. The address which was undeliverable is listed in the section labeled: "----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----".
The reason your mail is being returned to you is listed in the section labeled: "----- Transcript of Session Follows -----".
The line beginning with "<<<" describes the specific reason your e-mail could not be delivered. The next line contains a second error message which is a general translation for other e-mail servers.
Please direct further questions regarding this message to your e-mail administrator.
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to air-yc05.mail.aol.com.: >>> RCPT To: .
I've been reflecting upon it, and it may be more than a case of arrested emotional development (meaning deep-seated introversion with negative self-esteem). It is possible that that the mystery poster(s) is (are) shut-in(s) with severe physical limitation. In either case, this dialog may be therapeutic for them.
Aside from discontinuing the repartee because it's intellectually pointless, it is morally reprehensible to torment the handicapped.
----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to air-yc05.mail.aol.com.: >>> RCPT To: .
I've been reflecting upon it, and it may be more than a case of arrested emotional development (meaning deep-seated introversion with negative self-esteem). It is possible that that the mystery poster(s) is (are) shut-in(s) with severe physical limitation. In either case, this dialog may be therapeutic for them.
Aside from discontinuing the repartee because it's intellectually pointless, it is morally reprehensible to torment the handicapped.
what's the difference between swedish boy and anonymous. If you think you are any better post a name like Kevin J (actually a solid player at the game, maybe SPM should watch him). Swedish boy doesn't reveal your identity much.
Its amazing how dumb you can be. I guess that's how players like myself make money. Idiots at the table.
Ya I was the original ANONYMOUS. while everyone was using tom dick and harry I thought up a nine letter dooosy! I figure The first letter of my name would make it easier to find me being the first letter of the alphabet. But they never did. I did the weather report when the meteorite killed the dinasours with the dust cloud it created. Being ANONYMOUS makes you brilliant. You have lived long and prospered. SO MA MONY SUAM NON AMO ANNY UN SY UM NU NUN A NOOS MY ANOUY SOON SUN SON YUM NO Did I neglect any other words you can make out of the letters in ANONYMOUS?
I personally look forward to the SPM at any table I am at. But that hasn't happened yet so I am NOT THE ANONYMOUS you are looking for.So be sure when you start to insult or call names toward ANONYMOUS you point out the ANONYMOUS of which you speak.
It take you about 30 minutes to find those intelligant words in the theasaurus/Webster. You only here some of these words once in a lifetime you old arrogant driveling fool. By responding to any of these rambling threads you entered into the mentally handicap, baseless level of humanity, lacked of any dignity to be even called a respectable member of society.
Yeah, you zero.
A small group of posters (you're one of them) is detracting from the utility and enjoyment of this site. If you become irritating enough, then I fear there will be an unfortunate reaction. I always post under my real name with my actual email address. I enjoy the site and try to contribute to it. Please consider that your actions may have an unpleasant consequence.
I think the Midnight Marauder put it best… when you come to Hollywood be careful our fish eat sharks…. (not that you are a fish suburban)
Got to loathe a man (or a woman) for that matter who doesn’t have the intestinal fortitude to sign a slanderous comment. Can’t put their chips where their mouth is.
Not that my read on players is worth a damn… but for what its worth… In my opinion last year SPMs chips were all live and worth going after. Not an easy mark, but a mark none the less. In the last six months all that has changed. Those chips aren’t marks… they are bullets. Accurate bullets. In the games I see SPM in he is clearly on the top half of the ranking list at the table which is all it takes to be profitable. Keep up the good work SPM. You are doing a fine job…. And you are oh so right, Holdem’ is a game played against yourself.
I overheard a player at Harrah’s on the weekend make a statement that rings true… “I don’t want to be the most respected player in the game. I don’t want to be the best Holdem’ player in the room. I just want all your DAMN chips!!”
Make yourself know Anonymous and the regulars at Hollywood will be more than glad to continue this debate… perhaps at the table!!
I would just like to know Anonymous is so that I could raise and try to steal his or her's big blind.
Help me out Anonymous. Identify yourself.
is that your real name just another egg? Well, then it might as well be anonymous. Why do I want to make myself known? I just want the chips. All I will say is that I am a young buck who has run over both the 10-20 and 20-40 games since thanksgiving. Steamroller coming through.
And you say I have nothing better to do. How bout you responding to a post that has no bearing on you? Talk about a bored loser. I have a bone to pick. You need to go stroke your bone.
skill to do comes of doing.
ralph waldo emerson
I, too, one day wish to meet the SPM on the felt..not to take his money, mind you. I think SPM could tell a story or two. Just a guess.
backdoor...the best kinda flush draw..
You wouldn't be dissappointed. People like SPM and desire, are truly a joy to play with. As you can tell from their posts, these two can make any game more enjoyable and fun. There are some serious players who seem put off by their antics. I don't know why. I too, take my game seriously and am probably more of an introvert than extrovert at the table. I sure hope neither of them think I don't enjoy every minute of playing with them though. No matter how bad I'm stuck, seeing one of them enter the game perks me up, cuz I know the game just got more exciting!
There was one time the SPM was playing poorly. He took a brown paper bag, cut out eye holes and played the remainder of the session with a bag over his head as the "unknown poker player". Imagine walking into a cardroom and seeing a table with 9 serious players huddling over their cards, and one lone player with a brown paper bag over his head, yucking it up!
Or the time that desire was involved in a pretty intense pot with two other gentleman who were raising and re-raising each other like crazy with desire stuck in the middle. One guy finaly had enough and just called saying he was worried about the other guy's hand/draw to which desire responded, "Hey wait a minute! What about me?! What do I look like, a Pez dispenser just spittin' out chips to you guys?!". These are just the tip of the iceberg of what you can expect when these two are around. I can't tell you how many times I've broken out into unctrollable laughter playing with these two. I feel priveledged having the opportunity to do so. Thanks SPM and desire!
You luv, are a pure joy to play with and a sweetheart to be around. Your shy smile, the way you congratulate your opponents even when they draw out on you and your even-temper makes everyone smile when you come in the room even tho we know you're gonna take our sorry butts to the cleaners with your brilliant play. By the way...how come you never folded pocket aces to me on the turn? ...umm...don't answer that.
See ya soon :))
SPM, yeah he tells some mean bad beat stories. "Limped in with 3-6 suited............you know the rest."
I could give you my alias, but that wouldn't mean much to you now would it. I am a player at Hollywood in Aurora and Harrah's East Chicago. You are not a strong player, definitely not one of the tops in the games. Players like Lance and Mike know this, along with every other solid there. You might be able to beat the game, but that's because the game is as soft as a pillow.
I don't want you to know who I am, I just want you to know that you aren't good, and I will continue to own you when we play. Just take your cocky attitude adn keep handing over chips By the way, if you want to count extra chips, I could use some help over here.
I think you have missed a few of my posts. SPM is only a celebrity, defending the rights of players to paly any two cards from any position.
You are not a strong player, definitely not one of the tops in the games.
The SPM never said he was a solid player you implied it, since you are so good, I'm glad you warned me. I will try to live up to your expectations of my play. But if I don't, Basement Man will always give me more chips to play with.
This is a good thing Anonymous, you have put me on alert and I will be in total fear with every bet I make. I will take a pilgrimage to the Sacred Rocks of Patience, Power, and Position. I will ask them to help protect me from the Mean and Danagerous player know as Anonymous. I have and extra brown bag you could wear to the games, so we can't see your face. Should I leave it in the third floor mens room for you?
Oh and one last thing, you should keep your comments pointed at me. The other players, using poker call names, when they post, are all known to the other players. You are the only Masked Rider, but maybe that's a good thing. You add mystery and excitment, to the game.
SPM,...and stay out of my posts if you hate them so much...
These pup(s) (anonymous) are nothing more than airheads, who'll play K,9s UNG, suckout on your pocket AA's then tell you your a weak player who couldn't hold on to a rack of chips on his shift.
Lucky rushes even a few months don't make you a world class player, I guess anonymous head is swelled up to the size of a grapefruit in the stormy seas of pride.
Pride goeth before a fall.>>
SPM plays k-9 utg, and much worse.
I pity the woman that lowers herself into the bed with you..no matter how well paid she is to do so.
Grow some spine already
I usually don't respond to an anonymous that makes an ass of himself butt...
Someone that criticizes another player as being "not good" and adding things like "I will continue to own you" should know something about how to play poker. Don't ya think? Well just what is it that you know? What puts you in that self proclaimed "better than SPM" category? Care to share your expertise with us or is Desire correct when she makes ligh of your spine and it's curvature or jelly like composition? You and Randy E. seem to have a lot in common. Are you the same person?
I'm from Tennessee, but if someone can arrange a head-up game between SPM and anon. I'll come up there to sweat it. Perhaps anon. would like to make a small wager on the outcome? Dino.
A while back I asked if there were any home games in the Washington DC area. Let me know .
I have realized many local Hollywood players engage in fun and informative topics on this sight so I decided to post some material about a player who knows his players and can make acumen desicions to spread chips early in his session or not to invest any chips in the beginning of the session in order for him to profit for the rest of the session. I played with him regularly at east Chicago 20-40,30-60, and I think that he is the most colorful player that I have seen. He can adjust his game to anystyle and the beauty of his game is that nobody really knows how far they are behind and strategically how advanced this bartender is. He comes off as a lose canon ie...the fish but i can gaurantee you that he has the most sufficient sound bankroll. I tell you what the meaning of two cards can win is demontrated by this bartender than anyone else on the low limit poker. What triggered me to post this material is that I think that we all can learn a valuable lesson from life and I am sure we all have heard one say that we should never judge a book by its cover alone or we should spend time studying the cell of the body not the skin. On the surface, everyone is entitled to opinions aggrevated by perception however internal strength is driven by passion and knowledge that gives one to be more consciencously aware of its environment. That's the real difference between good players and super players. The other day I visited (monday)I went to see my good buddy "Egg" play 25-50 Hose game and I saw the bartender playing 10-20 in the main game. I never saw bartender play so loose! Every other hand was a raise with 5-6 callers. The pots were larger than average 20-40 games it was amazing. I seen bartender just raise and fold on the turn. Frankly, he showed me every card he played and explained to me how many idiots were on this table. I saw him raise in with 2,4 off suit and take the pot down against 3 other players, then he raised with pocket KK and got 6 callers to battle him on the flop. The bartender mucked KK faced up. What's really intersting about that evening is that people were not playing the bartender by the value of the cards but instead it gave me the impression that they were playing the "fish" with any thing in their hands but the truth of the matter is that the bartender swims in the different depth of water. Bartender induced them to play him, not the cards! HERE is a perfect example. I saw bartenter raise in with pocket 3s from early position. He showed me his hand. The guy next to him made it $30 with pocket jj. Then, the next comment was who raised? and replied oh sammy raised, I call. Then the next player follows then the next player follows the monkey that calls,then the small blind, then to juice it up big blind caps it $40 with KQ off suite. My only thought at this time was sammy had no chance. (sorry sammi i didn't want to reveal you as the bartender but now it's too late into my story I'm sure they figured it out.) Furthermore, very interesting event unfoldes through out this round. the flop come Qs,2h,7d. The big blind bets and bartenter smooth calls making rest of the players call. The turn card comes A of spade then the big blind checks and bartender bets with steam. Pair of Jacks calls and the button player raises on the come for the spades and knocks off the BB with KQ. The bartender smooth calls again with no emotions inducing the pocket JJ to call. The river card comes 9 of diamonds and the Bartenter slides his chips betting and Pocket jj was forced to lay it down while the unknown button player was a mystery. He lays it down with out a contest. What's going on? What could you possibly have in your hand before the flop that was worth 40 dollars if you can't make a hand with Q,2,7,A,9. The bartender tossed his pocket 3s into the middle of the pot and chuckled. Thanks for the action. I understand that the bartender may not recieve respect from mediocre entertainment players due to his flamboyant style but if you consider yourself half decent player there are things to be learned from the bartender. Hey, bartender if you read this call me. It's always a pleasure playing with you/and against you. It was a pleasure at AC,AR,East Chicago, hopefully at Hollywood. I also didn't mean to cramp your style but knowing you, you will figure a game plan to beat the game. If they only saw you in Alantic City. I don't think Hollywood know what's up! But again it's low limit. P.S. Suburbman poker man I didn't say hello but I saw you. I wanted to tell you that you're a character. I wanted to meet the chairman(MD) because he sounds like a winner. Hopefully, I'll meet rest of you at Hollywood Casino. Bartender I'll be at Oaks Club in Cali. When ever your ready with your new life come on by. Peace,Love, and prosperity to all serious poker players.
"everyone is entitled to opinions aggrevated by perception however internal strength is driven by passion and knowledge that gives one to be more consciencously aware of its environment"
damn, son...talk slower and move your lips more. And this can't be the Sammi i play with at Hollywood..trust me.
( hehe..just joshing with ya ;) )
see ya at the game
I must say I am frankly puzzled by that guys style. one day he'll drag the pot with a rag in his hand and the day you expect him to have junk he shows you a monster from an island. Yet, he still knows how to drag and trap players either way. Even if he is not winning the pot he will cause you to lose chips anyway. Playing with him is a costly game either way. You better have the cards against him.
It's always nice to have an outsider assess and evaluate the conditions and the situation of the poker ambiance. Sometimes i sit at the table way to long to recognize all the funny and common comotions. However,I started to play 10-20,20-40 recently at Hollywood and Harrahs. I use to play 5-10 at Hollywood but now understanding the psychology of different players in the casino I feel comfortable and confident. i don't really care what others think of PING aka sammy but I owe you lots of thanks and taking the time to explain the intricacy of the game. your still the man!
what can i say about poker. Without any pride, ego, and the sense to feel praised for what you do we couln't have the characters which poker draws across the nation. It's no different from a common poker room to a fortune five hundred company with small people trying to climb the letter. Someone is dogging somebody or trying to down play someone else so that they can feel important and look better in the eyes of the others. In your post, something interesting sparked my mind. I belive that most players were not respecting Bartender's due to two reasons. 1. where are they placing their value of respect? Respect what?Especially when they are gambling. How many solid players you know that's being playing Texas Holdem for a long lengthof time feel they are gambling? 2. More importantly I think that It's their natural tendency to beat the good player for their piece of mind.(keep their sanity together or get a fix of their lost world outside of the poker. Certainly, the bartender chose the right opponents, good position, and LUCK of the flop to push his Pocket 3s. Bartender did the right thing making the players think he was slow playing a set rather than aggressively representing whatever. If he played aggressively the JJ would have called out of despise. It seems to me Bartenders knows how to manipulate opponents emotions! Farewell.
When Tiger turned Pro, he had a Caddy who looked a little like the movie star Wilford Brimley(played in Cocoon, The Firm, China Syndrome, he's got a bushy mustache/ wears glasses), what was his 1st caddey's name. Why did tiger dump that guy?
Just Curious, Ben
The guy's nickname was Fluff. Below is a link to news stories on golf. Look up March 1999 and you will see several stories on Tiger's problems with and firing of Fluff.
I only skimmed one story about the firing but if memory serves me it was mostly over the fact that Fluff revealed that he was only getting half the going rate in terms of percent that most pro tour caddies get. There was a secrecy clause in the contract. I'd take a quarter of the going rate for Tiger ;-).
"I'd take a quarter of the going rate for Tiger ;-).
I'd caddy for Tiger for free.
Never mind that I could afford to take a year off from work to do it, I could write a great book about what its like living in the shadow of 'The Man'
I think Fluff is now caddying for Jim Furyk. Or at least he had been last year.
Release, release, release...
OH! I didn't hear you click in. Sorry! I've just been practicing releasing any two cards. January, was a great month for the SPM, but put in proper prospective, I'd say he got lucky. Played way too many hands from all positions that should have been released.
The Alderman from First Street, told the Mayor of Any2card Town (A2CT) he need the Street's and Sanitation Department to collect the piles rags littering First Street immediately. The Mayor told him the Town budget could only support one rag pick up per day. The alderman insisted the Mayor come down to First Street and see the piles of rags for himself.
The Mayor could hardly believe what he saw. It was only an hour into the game and First Street was littered with rags, from all positions. The rags were everywhere, K4 and his cousin Q6 Suited, slumped face down in the gutter. Ax and his sister Q3 Off, both shot down by a pair of drunk Ducks. All the named hands from the Rag family were littering the street, Jack Benny, The Montana Banana, Hines, Broderick Crawford, Woolworth, and Raquel Welch to name just a few. "How could this happen?" asked the Alderman.
The Mayor looked at the Alderman and with all the sincerity he could muster, he said, "Son, this is A2CT not the Valley of Patience (VoP)." "The Town budget allows for one rag clean up of this magnitude, said the Mayor. "That's not the problem," the Alderman assured the Mayor. Residents are taxed and the Visitors are fined for littering First Street with rags. So what's the problem asked the Mayor, "why did you bring me down here?"
"Well Mayor," the Alderman began, "I'll be coming up for re-election soon and I'd like to start a clean up campaign here on First Street. We need to inform the residents who travel on First Street what the speed limit is, and what kind of vehicles are prohibited from riding on First Street. This is a very busy street Mayor, warnings need to be posted."
The Mayor looked at the young Alderman in disbelief, how did this knuckle head ever get elected in A2CT, he thought. "Son," the Mayor said, "look around and stop looking at the dead rags, do you see that sign over there, read it." The young Alderman read out loud, "Warning Rags Prohibited" "What's the first thing new residents are given when they move into town," asked the Mayor. "Rules of the Road by Saint David and Saint Mason," replied the Alderman. "Now the dot com paper 2+2 do they not give daily warnings about speeding on First Street," the Mayor inquired. "Everyday on every forum," the Alderman whispered. "This is America!" said the Mayor, "the residents and visitors know the dangers, they have been informed, the decision is their's.
The Mayor got back into his tip mobile, "Rags on First Street, next thing you know he'll want to have a campaign to restrict the calling stations on the river.
SPM,...in February I'll be brushing up on the rules of the road by the Saints...
I look forward to February where hopefully you will see it in your heart to not slap me around as much as you did in January.
Just some thoughts...
Michael D. (Soccer/Sucker Mike D)
I'm so sorry I slaped you, I lost my head, I was sick, I had the case of the Tilts. Oh mighty Chairman forgive me.
Oh by the way have you picked your rat pack yet?
another great post..oh great SPM.. count me as another of your many lurker fans'' i even hope i can throw a few lose chips your way some day cause i not only live in any2 can win town.. I am the Mayor... gl
20 millions bankroll,how did she get this kind of money(even 2 millions bankroll)?
BTW happy for her.
I still get $20 in my poket.
From what source did you hear she has a $20M bankroll?
I would ask them.
BTW, I've only played with her once, and basically she folded a lot, so I didn't get to really gauge her play (except to note that she sure isn't loose or anxious). However, I've heard from many players who's opinions I respect that she is simply a great player, and has no fear about playing in the biggest games.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Doyle Brunson,from Bellagio post on RGP.
Thanks, I just read that post last night.
I wouldn't put any credence in it. It certainly sounded a bit tongue-in-cheek-y to me, even without the smiley face at the end. Actually, since as far as I know Doyle doesn't post very often anywhere, he might not even be aware of the smiley-face thing and it's importance in indicating to your reader that you're just kidding around.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
I, for one, am really glad that Anonymous was such a P---k to you in the general forum.
Why you ask?
Because up until then I had NEVER looked at the "Other Topics" section, but when you posted your message to him/her to come look here, I followed like the true lurker I am. What a find!
I am a daily lurker to 2+2 and really enjoy the forum. I have posted very infrequently but I feel compelled to post this so that you know that even though you may not get many responses to your stories here.... They are really, really good.
I cannot imagine how much time you spend "tinkering" with your prose, but whatever your doing keep it up. I believe that one of the marks of really good writing is the ability to make the reader laugh out loud. In this catagory you have succeeded many times.
Anyway, just a short note to say keep it up, you may not get many responses, but I GAURENTEE that you are read and enjoyed by many.
Hope to meet you in the felt jungle sometime.
I wasn't a prick, I just think he is a lousy excuse for a cardplayer. I just wanted to let him know that I will be glad to keep taking his money.
And as for being anonymous, I don't want him to know who I am. I assume that is why you chose blackhat. Unless that's your real name.
Hey suburban your one of the reasons the artful dodger and dog jason like to go to Hollywood.(we enjoy your company win or lose your always a gentleman ,Im learning alot about the game within from you)IF anonymous ever reveals himself i think he should spend some time in the doghouse. ruff ruff .........keep up the great posts spm,
I get it Jason........Don't tap the aquarium lol.
Jake didn't post anything at 6:04PM Sunday. Why don't you use your own identity. (rhetorical question)
Give us your real name(last name included,) social security number, and home address. Only then will Jake be identified. I guess by self definition, Jake is a zero.
My name is Jake Jacobs and I live in Coconut Creek, Florida. Our social security numbers are also our Federal Income Tax ID numbers. For obvious reason my social security number, along with my mother's maiden name, various PINs, et cetera must be confidential.
However, my Selective Service number was 19-119-46-209. My miltary service number was 11620338. My year of birth is 1946 (month and day are not a legitimate concern). I am a 1973 graduate of the University of Massachusetts. I am married with two children.
Now tell us about yourself. Or just tell me. You call email me at email@example.com
I believe that you should be audited for not declaring your poker income. The information will be sent to the IRS with the expressed purpose of seeking income from all the commercial poker sites listed. The request will be to audit 1999, 2000, and 2001. Have fun.
I knew you were a tax cheat.
Done nothing, worth nothing, are nothing.
How does it feel having a zero net income at Terminal Island for the next five years, let alone a hefty fine plus interest>>> See the Pete Rose Biography . If you can't do the time don't do the crime, think about your lovely wife and your two daughters without their daddy for five years or more.
PS: you'll know about the word punk means in there, I sure did.
Have you considered that your postings detract from the value of this site? Do you care?
Its not me. The value of the site is in question as long as 2+2 accepts advertizing dollars from racketeers.
What racketeers? As I look to the left I see two advertisers. Do you mean them?
Why don't you go yo work asshole so you con make some money for the boys?
Heh... My first attempt at writing a long story. I'd enjoy any comments you may have. I feel like I preach to much at the end.
The first time I remember stepping into a Casino I was about seven years old. I remember the bright colored flashing lights, loud bells, and real silver dollars banging into the catch pans of the slot machines. There were green felt tables and pretty cocktail waitresses. I saw all this while perched on top of my father’s shoulders.
As we passed to the outside of the Casino my father plunked a silver dollar into on of the larger machines. “Give it a pull, Chris.” I reached out to the large shiny metal handle topped with a shiny black plastic ball, and pulled it down. A loud cranking sound could be heard and the three wheels went spinning, to my fascination they stopped at “Bar”, “Bar”, “Bar”! Bells rang and I looked down to see silver dollars raining out of the bottom of the machine making loud clanging sounds in the catch pan. My father gathered them up and handed them to me. “You’re a very lucky boy”, he said with a smile. I certainly did feel lucky with those dollar coins weighing heavily in my small hands, and maybe, just maybe, I had been gifted with a touch of good luck.
From early childhood to my mid-twenties I was under the impression that luck existed as a quantifiable force. To go along with this belief, I thought that some people tended to be luckier than others. I had never been a gambler per se even after my early positive experiences with games of chance, but during the Fall of 1996 that would all change.
I don’t know what exactly got me thinking about gambling again. Maybe at an age of twenty-six I wanted a little more excitement than just the daily grind of waking up, going through a full day of work, eating, sleeping and then starting all over again the next day.
I started thinking about the excitement I had as a child, experiencing all the action of those vibrant gaming establishments. Maybe by visiting the casinos again I could rekindle some of the intense feelings I had as a youth, when I everything was new and the future was open with infinite possibilities.
I’m not the type to go off without being prepared so to the library I went to find some information on how to beat the odds. If I was going to experience my youth again I wanted it to be profitable as well as fun. I soon found what I was looking for, with a book that offered a betting system that was a sure winner. If you lost a bet all you needed to do was double your money and try again. You kept doing this progression until you eventually won then you started your over. Thinking lightly about the strategy it seemed fool proof because it’s common knowledge that events having equal chances to happen average out in the long run.
Another strategy I learned about was to find a game like Roulette that had been hitting one color for an extended period of time. Using the law of averages, the other color would seem to have a better chance of hitting to even out the long run of hits the other color was experiencing.
With all this new information, I took six thousand dollars form my savings account and headed to Reno. The city was almost what I expected, but I felt that the pictures I had painted in my mind didn’t quite transfer to reality as had anticipated. The green felt card tables were less vibrant than I remembered, and the croupiers and cocktail waitresses wore expressions of conscious indifference.
As I made my way through the maze of slot machines and table games I spotted what I had been waiting for. A large polished wooden Roulette wheel lay directly in my path. On a tall chrome post next to the table where the wheel spun was an electronic counter that had some very important information on it. From what I could see the last four points made on the wheel were black. Was this fate guiding my hand? I thought it very well could be so I set out to put my betting progression to work.
I sat down at the table and pulled two crisp one hundred-dollar bills from my bulging wallet and placed them both on red. Remember the law of averages says that these even money bets should average out in the long run so red was due to hit. The dealer casually spun the wheel head, and shot the small white ball along the back track. The ball made three revolutions, then losing its velocity, ran down the side of the bowl and collided with the spinning wheel head. The ball bounced violently around the black, red, and green numbered pockets till it finally came to rest in, “Twenty-two, Black” the dealer announced, as he cleared my two hundred dollars off the layout. I expected this might happen, I pulled out four more hundreds and laid them on red once again. The wheel spun the ball bounced, “Four, Black” the dealer said in a polished fashion that I wondered how many times he had said that same combination of words at this table before.
Now that little ivory ball had found itself on black “six” times in a row and I was down six hundred dollars. If I bet eight hundred on the next spin and won, I would be up two hundred. I slammed eight bills down on Red, “Thirty-five, Black.” I couldn’t believe what was happening, seven times in a row that ball found itself in a black pocket. It couldn’t keep doing this forever. I pulled out sixteen bills and placed them on red, “Twenty, Black.” The shock of losing that much money was so great that I felt as if I had turned into a machine. I didn’t even want to think of how much I just lost, but it was obvious when I opened my wallet. I had thirty hundreds left and if I did win this time I could walk away even. I slid the stack of bills onto Red with my heart pounding and my hands clammy with sweat. The dealer didn’t even acknowledge my plight. He gave me a cool look and sent the ivory ball spinning around the back track. It seemed like an eternity before the ball finally dropped in one of the pockets, and this time it didn’t land on black. “Double Zero” announced the dealer and he casually scooped up the rest of my money. I slowly walked away, disoriented, and a little nauseous. I would have never guessed how this experience would profoundly effect my life.
My experience with gambling was misguided to say the least, but the loss did have a sufficient effect on my way of thinking. While I made many logical errors in my adventure I would like to point out my core belief of luck as some supernatural power was the key to my troubles in the first place.
Luck, is just a way of describing an event’s apparent tendency to be fortunate or unfortunate. The area where superstition grabs a foothold is when we look at each event independently. My winning the silver dollars form the slot machine was a fortunate event, and my losing five bets in a row at the Roulette table was an unfortunate run of events and nothing more. These events are actually quite mundane when they apply to a large group of players, but since they happened to me as an individual they seem to take on an attribute that is synonymous with state of luck.
Now notice what happens once we get rid of this notion of luck as some force that can sway the odds in and out of our favor. We now must use our knowledge and skills to obtain an advantage on everything from the green felt tables in Reno to all other decisions that affect our lives.
What happened to me in Reno was what started to change my perception of control. From that day forward I started to internalize the results of my actions. I now take full responsibility of what happens to me in life and luck or fate determining my destiny no longer binds me.
Nice narative Chris. Job well done.
Good Luck (I mean Good Control) :-)
a+ well written...enjoyable, held my attention, caused some self reflection, you have a gift ...continue to develop it....gl
You're off to a pretty good start. In particular, you make good points about the ways in and by which adults try to recapture chidhood experiences and emotions. Keep in mind, though, that children see the world much differently than do adults. For example, you mention that as a child you saw the "future was open with infinite possibilities." Simply, children live in the present, paying little heed to the future; instead, they live in a vortex of sights, sounds, and emotions. Don't let your adult sensibilities color childhood recollections too much.
As you write more and more, though, work on eliminating forms of the verb "to be" (is, was, are, were) as much as possible. Avoid beginning descriptive sentences with "There were." Also, you can use "I remember" once at the beginning of the reflective essay; after that, you won't need it again.
I like your excellent description of the action at the Roulette table; your description of the wheel vividly describes the scene for those unfamiliar with the workings of the game.
Also, you might spend a bit more time revising the third paragraph from the end. Note that you insert a comma between the subject and verb in the first sentence, and the final sentence, although making a valid point, suffers from wordiness. I think you can end this paragraph much more forcefully--and should--but, instead, the thoughts seem too abstract. Watch out for redundant phrases such as "to me as an individual." One more note on wording: remember that when you're sick you're "nauseated"; when you make others sick, you're "nauseous."
Chris, I hope you don't mind these detailed comments, but I think this fits what you're asking for. Finally, I'm not sure if you should always take responsibility for what happens to you. Fate and luck often are powerful forces beyond our control.
Good luck with your course, and email me if you have any particular questions.
Now I see why you were teacher/instructor of the year back home. Hope all is going well with you and Mary.
You should have seen the redundancies I cleaned up before I posted it. Thanks for the critique John.
One part of the essay was to try to sway you against the concepts of Fate and Luck, I would like to prove that they don't exist. What I believe does exist might be called a concept of "Nature" (taken from Game Theory).
There are random events in our finite lives that we can't change, but it does not follow that those events have any meaning. When people use words like Fate and Luck they usually are presupposing that these events have a meaning.
Made me think back to my first trip to Vegas in the early 70's.
I don't know how to describe it. It's like having pocket Aces and you just don't know what to do with it. Everything tells me that it's okay and time is good but for some odd reasons it feel not right. We had breakfast together after a long session,we spoke on the phone, and we even discussed our adversity even before we gotten anywhere. I don't know why I am becoming aloof to her because she's gorgeous and very humorous. After few days taking a time out I realized and analyzed the situation disecting every bits of the puzzle why I don't like her. In a way, why many of us have to muck our pocket Aces and Kings when there is a funny doubt that you are beaten Instead of falling in love with our hands. I'm sure you have seen many player go down to the river with these hands and pay off the winner all the way! However, we still can't dismiss the fact that these are beautiful hand to possess. Similarly, this young lady would have a similar affect on me. She is attractive and I don't know too much about her except that she has a trouble past,attitude,and unsound decision making skills. Sounds like she has attribute which no man in the right mind would want to handle. That's why Iam not going all the way to the river. I am simply mucking. Although, she's deadly the way she looks .
this is probably not new and obvious to most,however it is bugging the h out of me ; on p 309 of hpfap 21c ed app a there is a table the little numbers pointing out outs for str8 flush, flush,str8 are wrong...aren't they...just checking...thx for helping my reality ck...gl
Yes they are wrong. It will be fixed in the next printing.
The table itself is correct. The footnotes are wrong. Footnote 1 is a flush draw. Footnote 2 is a straight draw. Footnote 3 is a straight flush draw.
thank you more than you will ever know...
I have pointed out at the same "notes" mixed-ups a year ago and couple of guys on the Forum ridiculed me on the account that, supposedly, everyone has been aware of it.
"What makes me think I am better than SPM?" Well this is easy enough, I don't play any two cards from any position. But, more importantly, in the short time I have played with him I have made more money. That makes me better than SPM.
As for me being a loser, somehow I think you guys are the losers who spend all your time on this forum and in smoke-filled card rooms.
Here is a little bit of info about me, since you seem to care so much, as suggested by the numerous posts, sucking SPM's c__k.
I am a young punk who is 22, I work at Goldman,Sachs. I am being trained to be an options traders. I do not spend my life at this forum or in a casino. I do lurk here once in a while, since I am interested in poker. I won't be around long however, I have heard enough of Jim Brier's "Assuming the UTG raiser is a solid player he is raising AA-10's ............yada yada yada fold." Enough of Sklansky's, "while the math is beyond the scope of the posters........."fold 30% of the time of the turn, 10% on the river."
People like SPM, whose social circles seem to include the casino and 2+2 sicken me, I just wanted to tell him he is a poor card player, no matter how good he thinks he is. And, I have and will continue to enjoy taking your money. If you think, you know who I am one day, ask cause if you guess right, I will reveal myself.
heading back under my bridge,
Odd that everyone else thinks of you as the orifice of excretion.
we talk about poker, enjoy a discussion or two about the game etc., this guy enjoys being a prize asshole, that seems to be his hobby and he seems to have become exceptional at it, so let it be and leave this sorry dude alone.
I would not even say how sad it was to go on a forum and waste the time and energy on people who are... it seems ... as sad as we seem to be...... mmm..... ok i cannot answer that but be fair huh?, the guy obviously has his own social problems.
The only differance is Jake is a old smart ass, anonymous is a young smart ass, Maybe Jake, Rounder, and anonymous are kissin cousins.
...that impersonates other people on the Internet Forum?
I guess whining to Chuck Weinstock will pay your back taxes....Tee Hee...Hee
Why else would I have munchkins reading all my posts and replying to every one. If you little darlings would like to become card-carrying fan club members, you have till the fifteenth to e-mail me and sign up. Then you can be president of your OWN chapter! Gosh, will your friends look up to you then!
Does that mean you are leaving twoplustwo, does that mean no ,more Jake to slap around, sure wont be fun if you skip out. With Rounder, just a emotional time bomb with a chip on his shoulder, You Jake, intellectual arrogance makes you of a entertaining sparring foe. The one who you have responding to I know his name, Nicolas Fradet, the unpaid tax enforcer of the IRS.
By the way there is free email services. Savoncalling looks like they charge you monthly fees, why notwww. yahoo.com,www. msn.com.,www. hotmail.com www.usa.net all free email services.
You, at least, seem to be of good humor. Why would Nicolas Fradet want to be an informer to the IRS? Does he have his own tax problems, and he's unburying himself by selling other people? I'd rather be dead than be a snitch.
I have another email address, but post again on 2+2? I've gotten good response from Jim Brier and Dunc Mills, otherwise I've just harvested grief. Maybe later.
"I am a young punk.."
That about says it all. Punk spells it up admirably. About your future. If you are going to be successful in any endeavor it will be with a modicum of integrity and character in hand. Posting and attacking people anonymously only underscores that fact that you have neither. SPM is a man that does not profess to be an expert player. If you have played with him at all, you would realize that he has a love of the game..and truly enjoys the social aspect of it. He is not there to hurt anyone or break anyone at the table. He surely does not need me or anyone else to defend him, but I get so saddened and angry when a "punk", your word mind you, like you tries to get inside someone's head and bring them down. And I personally don't believe you're 22. I believe all of us regulars at Hollywood know exactly whom you are. And you realize that your mouth has about gotten your sorry butt in trouble and so you feel a coward's need to try and cloak it by this sad unsuccessful attempt at disguise. I'll tell you this. If you see me at the table, you might wanna not say the first word to me. It would be pretty difficult to get me barred from a room, but I think dangling your sorry ass over the deck would be more than worth it. I am hereby posting a "SUCKER'S REWARD". $100.00 for anyone that can expose Anonymous to us.
"I am hereby posting a "SUCKER'S REWARD". $100.00 for anyone that can expose Anonymous to us."
Anonymous! Hell for $100.00 I'll expose myself. Provided you agree not to laugh.
laugh? moi? at a naked man? NEVER...cry maybe..but never have i laughed..heh
I really don't know who you are desire, so I don't know if you could throw me over the deck. I am 22. I look 12 (and please don't tell me I act 12 too, spare me that brilliancy). And, laying into someone anonymously is not going to stop me from suceeding in poker or life. SPM likes the attention and he is clearly not offended. My goal was not to offend anyone, just get a few laughs for myself, while I have nothing to do at work. I got my laughs
"anonymous" spend a few years in the queentank at Folsom. The word punk derives from young men who sells out his manhood(sexual favors) in return for protection. "anonymous" is a former lover of a convicted sex offender who taught him holdem. So I guess this is why he brags in cyper-space about being so good, which is a joke.
I recently saw a biographical show on the career of Pete Rose and a movie about Ty Cobb. I think Pete was a better citizen than Ty Cobb which isn't saying much. If Cobb is in the Hall Pete should be in. Baseball needs to examine the tradition of banning players who bet on baseball games. It all started with Judge Landis and come to think of it he wasn't all that great a citizen either. I think Pete should be in the Hall of Fame.
If the quality of their play, and what that quality has meant to the general interest in the game, decides whether a player is included, then Rose should be in. It's not even close. I agree with the sports writers who vote for him at every opportunity, even though he's supposed to be barred. Bets, schmets; put him in.
He threw games to cover huge gambling losses. The man is you kind of guy , Jake.
Wasn't the main problem that he was betting on games when he was managing, including his own team? If so, that is pretty serious.
As far as Pete Rose betting on his own games.In the immortal words of Mile Davis and David Sklansky......."So What"!
Why should what he did as a manager, have any baring on his eligibility as a player?
They give everyone a second chance, for just about everything else anyway.
Actually Rose never bet for or against the Reds while he was managing them.
As far as the Hall of Fame goes he definitely should be in. Hell baseball, basketball and football is full of drug users, rapists, murderers, etc. (Note hockey was not included in this list.... must be because 50% of the players are from Canada). These druggies and rapists are given 3rd, 4th and 5th chances. Pete Rose definitely deserves a 2nd chance.
Rick one of my points is that Major League Baseball needs to rethink it's traditional approach in this area. When the Black Sox scandal broke Judge Landis was appointed to be the first commissioner of Major League Baseball. If you look at the history of the Black Sox scandal you'll no doubt see was that part of the problem was caused by the owner of the White Sox I believe his name was Charlie Commisky. The owner went back on some verbal promises regarding bonuses and such. Also baseball had the infamous reserve clause at that time which barred free agency and eventually was determined to be unconstitutional. The bottom line the players either accepted what the owners dished out or didn't play. Back to Judge Landis, all of the White Sox players that were accused of gambling were acquitted in a Court of Law. However, Judge Landis banned each and every one of them from the game including Shoeless Joe Jackson who hit .375 in the World Series that was fixed. Later in I believe 1926 Landis was supposed presented evidence that Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker fixed games. However, the story goes that Ty Cobb threatened to reveal wide spread fixing of baseball games and Landis backed off. BTW Landis was a notorious bigot as was Cobb. Cobb also probably was guilty of murder as well. In fact we all know that race discrimination was an institution in Major League Baseball until 1948. This is how the tradition was born of banning players who bet on baseball. In light of some of the players who are in the Hall of Fame today and the ugly past that this tradition was born in the powers that be in Major League Baseball should take a long hard look at their policy. I also think that Shoeless Joe should be in the hall as well.
"Later in I believe 1926 Landis was supposed presented evidence that Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker fixed games. However, the story goes that Ty Cobb threatened to reveal wide spread fixing of baseball games and Landis backed off. BTW Landis was a notorious bigot as was Cobb. Cobb also probably was guilty of murder as well."
I think that the word "speculation" is the operative term here when referring to the alledged crimes of Cobb. In the case of Rose the operative term here is "proven", yes, even "admitted" with regards to betting on baseball. Big difference wouldn't you say. Besides even if Cobb was guilty and got away with it why would it justify allowing a "convicted" Pete Rose particpation in the Hall of Fame? Wouldn't it make more sense to bar them both?
Just because Pete gambled with organized crime figures of La Cosa Nosta shouldn't ban him from it. Hell, the management of two plus two take money from La Cosa Nostra, and probably pay street tax every month.
Previous post directed to "of course he should". Dino.
With all the scummy sleazy players being allowed to play Pete really belongs in the hall and on the field Managing once again.
No one played harder than this guy.
I think it is fair to say that nobody cared more about his teammates either no matter what their skin color was or background was.
Give Giamatti some credit. Rose, one of the most popular players of his time bet on baseball for cryin out loud. Sure he claims he never bet on the Reds but so what, he bet on baseball while he had a tremendous influence on the outcome of games. Family, Country and "Baseball" or have all you "Baseball" fans forgot the things you believed you could trust when you were growing up in America? In defense of Cobb, to my knowledge, he never did anything illegal while playing the game. And when he played he played with as much intensity as he could muster.
A former (during most of the Rose years) Baseball lover,
>> In defense of Cobb, to my knowledge, he never did anything illegal while playing the game. And when he played he played with as much intensity as he could muster.<<
Do we count murder, wife beating, child neglect, illegal gambling, etc. and he is alleged to have bet on baseball by some.
If Cobb did all these things you claim then maybe there should be a hall just for him and Pete.
Misdirection ad absurdum. This isn't the good citizen hall of fame, only the baseball hall of fame. As such, conduct detrimental directly to the integrity of the game would be appropriate in excluding someone if this is deemed so. The points you brought up are red herrings -- they don't affect the outcomes of the games of baseball.
"They don't affect the outcomes of the games"
"Give Giamatti some credit".
Bart Giamatti's penalty against Rose, had no preclusion to Cooperstown within it.It was after Mr Giamatti's death, that the Hall of Fame rules committee decided to change the rules of eligibility(1990).
Oh,and Vince, what about my question. Why should one of the greatest players of all time, be excluded from the Hall of Fame, for something that was done after his playing days were over?
If you reply, let's leave Mom and apple pie out of this :-)
I believe Giamati banned Rose for life from Baseball. I include the HOF as a subset of the wider world of "Baseball". I don't speak for Giamatti but I believe he banned Rose with the idea that Rose committed a mortal baseball sin. His punishment is expulsion from the heaven we know (or once knew in my case) as "Bseball". Rose's action sure helped to convince me that "Baseball" was not the game I once viewed it as when I was younger. It was more than just nine innings of hit and run. It was an honorable game played by "Men of Honor". Pete laughed at that and showed true distain for the game by his actions. Whether you like apple pie and Mom or not that is the bottom line.
There were things that Pete Rose was banned from and things that he wasn't banned from. The Hall of Fame was not one of those things, that tha acting commisioner at the time, bannend him from. You can believe all the misconceptions you want, but the exlusion came much later by the HOF rules commmittee.
You mean to tell me, that if Michael Jordan did something wrong in your eyes. As an executive of the Wizard,.he should not be allowed into the basketball Hall of Fame.
Just as Amarican as Baseball and Apple Pie is fairness and forgiveness.
According to most observers, all Rose need do is admit he bet on baseball while managing (i.e., put his tail between his legs and whimper a bit). After a few years, he'll be welcomed to the Hall of Fame if he does so. Yet, Rose refuses to admit he bet on baseball. Why?
Because he's already earned his place. He won't give the hyenas the satisfaction.
I think Jake answered it far better then I ever could.
Rose's time spent as a manager should be considered "between the lines." Aren't there a few managers in the Hall of Fame? One named McGraw comes to mind. In baseball heaven, he doesn't look kindly upon Pete's wrongs while managing and refuses to vote for him every year.
If I understand your post,you are saying that what a player does (bad) after his playing days are over,should count against him when it comes to his eligibility.
I include his stint as manager of the Reds as part of his "playing days"; therefore, action taken against Rose is appropriate--for now. Had he bet on baseball after his managing and playing days were done, I would have no problem with his inclusion. I also beleive, however, that he belongs in the Hall, and he will be there someday. However, as long as he lives in a continual and continued state of self-denial about his wrongs, he belongs on the outside looking in.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
What makes you think Pete never bet on the Reds? His word? Maybe that's not important. Maybe Pete should not be banned from baseball. Maybe Baseball should allow it's player to gamble on baseball. After all the rest of us can.
Why do you answer my guestions with questions ?
I will be out most of the day. I will be happy to answer your questions when I return, much later today. I hope you will be so kind to answer the questions that I have asked of you.
"What makes you think Pete never bet on the Reds? His word?"
Whether he bet on the Reds or not, I believe he has earned a place in Cooperstown by his play on the field, as a payer.
Also, some of the betting slips that they have as evidence, are pretty shakey at best. Betting slips with games on them, that were played on different nights, for example.
I agree with John Cole (among others), that he should be in the Hall of Fame.
I also believe that he will be in the Hall one day. It's just a matter time.
I agree with Howard Burroughs! Put Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame!
You're a riot Vince :-)
BTW - I love your new post on rgp about S&M. Although,I thoght you were a little hard on G.Carson (even know you didn't mention him by name). A great post though.
Vince belongs in the poker poster's hall of fame,that's for sure !
baseball needs pete rose...too bad he did not get coked up..or murder someone then he would be in already...he really pissed bart off....jmho..gl all
I've been out of town for the last couple of days and haven't had the opportunity to read everyones thoughts. Pulling the forum up this morning for the first time I was very suprised by the messages from Anonymous regaurding SPM and was wondering what SPM has done to you. If it is solely to brag about how good of a player you are, you are sorely mistaken. I KNOW who you are and disagree with you conclusions. We all need work, including me. I would however like you to help me understand what the problem with SPM is. In my experiences with him I have never seen him be impolite to anyone, except you, unless they deserve it. Please help me to understand why you dislike such a nice man.
everyone is taking this way too far. Obviously, it's personal between the unknown egg and the celebrity spm. I realy don't know who the egg is but I sure know SPM. I could beat SPM with any two cards and that's because I am that caliber player. SPM is to good to give one that extra call when he knows he's beat. Unlike other eggs who win one pot by making a terrible call than by end of the session wonder why they lost!
After three days off, it's time to return to the felt Jungle. With five consecutive weeks in a row on the plus side, will the hammer of the statistical cleansing fall? No one wins all the time, they say, well who are they any way? A statistical cleansing happens when your hourly win rate is greater than you ability to play the game. The SPM usually plays at less than minimum wage, just above even, a recreational player, with high hopes of becoming a resident of the Valley of Patience. Currently winning way above his normal powers and abilities. The foot steps of a statistical cleansing (SC) approach.
What do you do with an approaching SC, play softly and carry a big stick? In the days of old, The Court of the Royal Flush, was located in the Land of Hold'em. About six and a half blocks from where the new Town Hall stands in Any2card Town (A2CT).
The King and Queen had long ago realized they could not rule in the Land of Hold'em with out help from the Dukes, Earls, Lords and the Ladies in waiting. The deck had been stacked with 32 little peasants and they wanted their piece of the kingdom. Lead by one of the evil knights, who called himself, The Hammer of the SC.
With only 20 members of The Court of the Royal Flush. The odds were stacked in the favor of peasants. But the King and Queen had a plan. They had noticed that whenever the peasants fought with the evil Knight SC, they always relied on reinforcements to win the battle. Battles always seemed to begin near the east end of the road called flop, it got it's name from the first peasant to knocked a member of the court off his high horse, the sound it made was, FLOP. Today we call it First Street.
The King and Queen called the members of the court together. We can rule the Land of Hold'em they told the Royal Court. But we must have a code of honor, and we must bring that code to the battle field.
The King read the new code to the Royal Court. Never engage the enemy alone, go in pairs, and when you have no pair, always take with you one of the Knight's of the house of Aces. They were the best fighters in the Land of Hold'em.
The Jack of hearts, stood up and said, my love for the Queen of clubs will always be enough to beat the peasants of the land. She travels with me in complete safety. The term fuzzy thinkings was first used that day. "No," said the King, "you have fuzzy thinking. Your hands will be to busy playing with the Queen of clubs, troubled hands will not win their fair share of the battles." The Jack of Hearts, persisted, "I have seen you and the Queen fight on the flop without an Ace to chaperon either of you." "Yes but, you should notice we never inter the battle early, always we fight together in the same suit of armor,from late in the battle where we see all the peasants coming." The term late position was introduced into the vocabulary of the Royal Court.
The Jack of clubs, thought for a moment and responded. "We never inter the battle with troubled hands from early position, only form late position." "You almost have it" replied the King, as he added another rule for the New Code of Honor. Should you hear a raise, never engage with troubled hands from any position. When you do inter the field of battle with troubled hands, always wear the same SUIT of armor.
And so began the Code of Honor for The Court of the Royal Flush.
SPM,...looking for his armor, and ready to battle, always with a code of honor...
Very clever. Beware of mother nature's own creations. What if all the peseants rebeled against you. This code should be more effective on the higher limit for a better profit gain. Having a plan is good but how well you execute is much more important.
that good advice shitown, oh sorry i mean chitown
I'm going to be in Vegas this Friday and Saturday, staying and playing at the Bellagio (and maybe Mirage). I'd love to meet anyone who will be around, even if only to say hi and put a face to a name.
I'll probably be playing 15-30 hold 'em. I'll be wearing a blue ball cap with a Big Ten Conference insignia on the front. If you see me please stop and say hi.
I'll try to find you, Paul. I will be flying into Laughlin on Friday evening, but will be making a day trip on Saturday to LV. Will be at Mirage and/or Bellagio sometime during the day. Do you sign up under Paul T., or do you have a special "handle"?
I should be playing Saturday afternoon.
I'll just sign up as Paul, Paul T. if they need an initial.
Look forward to meeting you.
I was in Vegas recently and I was very surprised at three observations.
One: The Bellagio is getting pretty greedy by forcing the players to pay a players "rate" (hah!) of $139.00 a night during the week and $199.00 for friday and saturday. I guess I'll have to start doing priceline again. *sigh* Everyone I spoke to expressed indignation at the new rate structure. Mandalay Bay has nicer rooms for half the price.
Two: The Bellagio has now initiated "Non-Smoking" tables which is an amazing development in and of itself. Khamel told me that if the response is good, they will consider expanding the program. So all of you non-smokers need to put a word in. They seem to finally be responding to the rights of non-smokers to be seated at a non-smoking table.
Three: Even the most die-hard smokers (no pun intended) have developed a sensitivity to the rights of non-smokers. I actually saw the dragon lady hold her cigarette down at her side instead of allowing it to constantly fume away in the ashtray on the table in front of the player next to her. I noticed that most of the other smokers were really putting forth an effort to not allow their smoke to drift into other peoples faces.
The dealers I spoke to were very very happy to be dealing at a non-smoking table as they can't say anything even if smoke from a player is choking them.
Now..as long as they don't ban chocolate..heh
I'm from the old school' you might say. I spent my younger days hanging around poolrooms and backrooms and as a matter of fact I own a poolroom now. If anybody had squalled about cigarette smoke they would have been laughed at and told to find them another place to hang around. I can't imagine hanging around a CASINO and being told not to smoke! what do you do when some sucker wants to play? Do you tell him to give his money to somebody else? Had you rather play with a non-smoking rock or a loose smoking goose who's trying to give his money away? Dino.
I'm from the old school' you might say. I spent my younger days hanging around poolrooms and backrooms and as a matter of fact I own a poolroom now. If anybody had squalled about cigarette smoke they would have been laughed at and told to find them another place to hang around. I can't imagine hanging around a CASINO and being told not to smoke! What do you do when some sucker wants to play? Do you tell him to give his money to somebody else? Had you rather play with a non-smoking rock or a loose smoking goose who's trying to give his money away? Dino.
Since I don't play poker for a living, it's a much easier choice to make, but I'll take the non-smoking environment all the time. I quit playing for over a year until my local room went non-smoking.
Plus, what makes you think that a)only smokers are fish and 2) their gambling habit is less compulsive than smoking? They will find a way to accomadate both habits.
The times they are a-changing.
I surrender! Ha! Dino.
It's only a mere matter of time before I won't have to make that choice. Once workers start to pull together and negotiate smoke-free environments to work in or as litigation against smoke filled public places becomes more prolific and successful, trust me..smoking in public places will go the way of the dinosaurs. Which reminds me of that old Gary Larson cartoon..a huge tyrronasaurus rex with a lit cigarette hanging out of the side of its mouth..the caption underneath read, "The REAL reason dinosaurs are extinct."
Desire, come home to me.
Oh you sweet-talker you!
Not until you promise me TWO free buffet passes.
A girl has to have some standards after all :Þ
See ya either today or tomorrow, you hunka hunka burning luv *chuckle*
You got'em baby, if I get to use one of them.
Situation came up the other night in a 10-20 Omaha game that I thought I would post for comments.
At the river, there were still 5 players involved. Player #1 checks, it gets checked around to Player #5 who bets. Player #1 check-raises, which drives out all the other players. #5 calls, and #1 shows down the nut full house. However, he has 5 cards in his hand!
Ruling made was this: Player #1's hand is ruled dead. All monies he had put into the pot are forfeited. Everyone else other than #5 is refunded the money that they had contributed to the pot, even if they were not around at the river. #5 is awarded the pot, which basically consisted of #1's money.
When I asked the Houseman about this ruling the next day, she said that in fairness to all the other players involved, they felt it best to refund their contributions to the pot. #1 did show down the nut full, but clearly his hand is dead because he had 5 cards. The #5 player showed down about the 8th best possible hand, and one of the other players said that he had the #5 player beat, but that in light of the checkraise on the river from the fouled hand, he had laid it down. This was of course impossible to prove, because all the other hands were in the muck.
Was this ruling reasonable, or would it have been handled differently elsewhere?
In Los Angeles player #5 would get all of the pot. In addition, if player #1 was an experienced player he should have known he had five cards, especially in this game where all four cards are dealt before the betting begins. If he had a dubious reputation and no good explanation as to why he continued to play five cards (two stuck together with chicken grease might be acceptable), I would make the recommendation that he be barred from playing. OTOH, there are honest people who may not have noticed the fifth card after checking their hand once so you would have to tread carefully here.
A better example of an angle would be if the player who was holding five cards made some ridiculous bluff with no hand in an attempt to win the pot without having to show his fouled hand. In that case, the player should be barred since he was IMO cheating.
In the spirit of a kinder, gentler cardroom, I think the hand should be declared a misdeal, and everyone should get their money back. The players who folded sure have a good case that they may have won if player 1 wasn't in the hand, and a misdeal would have been declared if the five card hand was discovered before any action had taken place. Lighten up, Rick.
Sorry Brett, but if this were the standard ruling, it would be terrible.
I mean, if you're dealt 5 cards, why not just play the hand real aggressively. If you manage to win without a showdown, you win. If you get called to the end, you then "notice" that you have 5 cards, it's a misdeal, and you get your money back. Talk about a freeroll. I am aware of too many people at the cardroom who would never pass up this opportunity for me (if I were in charge) to put it in the rulebook.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Okay, but if we put Rick in charge, he's going to give the guy a public flogging. I can live with killing his hand, but I think Dunc's cardroom did the right thing in returning money to the other players.
Do they allow caning in CA?
Look, a lot of conditions would have to be met before the guy would get “caned”. I mentioned some of those in my post above. When I worked the floor, I could tell the difference between an innocent mistake and an angle and I kept track of the angle shooters and assholes.
Quick story so you don't think I'm Captain Bligh. Several years ago the big Los Angeles clubs got together to make a common rulebook. I was just starting out working the floor but at one point we got a chance to comment on the new rules before they were finalized.
One of the rules was that you must have a complete hand to win (e.g., seven cards in seven stud). The management at HP wanted it enforced without exception. I made it clear that this could often result in a player who made an innocent mistake being penalized unjustly. For example, a player in seat four might show down a full house, but one of his meaningless cards gets swept in with an adjoining players discards. At the time they wanted the hand killed without exception.
In holdem, they insisted that both cards must be shown to win. Now this is a generally a good rule but not doing so should not result in forfeiture of the pot. Their big concern was that the deck could be fouled and the player with a short hand was trying to hide the duplicated card. I pointed out that the vast majority of the time this would not be the case, and if this was that big a concern, the pot be impounded and the deck checked (this could be done be a floorman without slowing the game).
I could provide more examples where I used common sense and good judgment to make a decision but would really rather post about the fun stuff. I'm not perfect but my decisions were usually respected.
Rick, this guy is a regular. He occupies the same seat every night at 7:30 when they spread the game. I do not believe he played out the hand knowing he had 5 cards, and he had no quibbles about his hand being dead and his money forfeited. What I wondered about was the decision to give everyone else in the pot their money back, other than the winner. Brett seems to feel there should be a balance between the rule of law and the spirit of the game; you say that the last man standing(with a valid hand) should get the pot.
I'm still not sure the best way to handle it. I thought I would post it and see what the concensus was around the country.
In most cases the player does make an honest mistake so I may have gone overboard in my response above. But in most locals I believe the hand with five cards would be dead and the remaining best hand would get the pot.
Poker Room Rules are in place to protect the integrity of the game being played. The player with the fouled hand should be dead and unless it is clear that the dealer or another player has contributed to the fouling of it. The remaining player would receive the pot. There must be clear proof of misconduct for anything else to be done at this point. To return all monies to all players may open the door to intentional fouling of hands. I have seen players not notice a missing card or extra card enough to know it can be an honest mistake.
This hand came up over the weekend at a local casino, which has a Bad Beat Jackpot. Qualifying hands: Ace's full over Jack's must be beaten. Both cards from your hand must play, and for Quad's at this casino, you must have a pocket pair in your hand coupled with a pair on the board. You cannot have 3 of a kind on the board plus the case card in your hand with a high enough kicker.
On this hand, at the River the board was A-A-A-x-x. One player was all-in, and the other two had action on the river creating a side pot. At the showdown, Player A showed JJ, and Player B showed QQ. The dealer awarded the side pot to the QQ, of course, and then Player C, who was all-in, showed down AK.
Now at all the other casinos in town with a Bad Beat, this hand would have been a qualifier with Quad Ace's and a playing kicker. But at this room, all he got was the main pot. But, here's the situation: the house awarded the Bad Beat jackpot based solely on the results of the two hands in the side pot! The JJ was awarded 50% of the approximately $5K jackpot, the QQ got 25%, and all the other players at the table, including the AK hand, received a table share.
I thought this ruling was ridiculous. Should not the results of the winner of the main pot be the determining factor as to whether or not a Bad Beat is awarded? I know that in many (most) rooms in the States where there are Jackpots, that with a board of AAAxx, a Houseman would be called over to supervise the action at the river anyway. If Player C had any clue, and the Jackpot was large enough, he should have mucked his hand at the showdown if the table share was larger than the size of the pot. At least, if the house would allow him to muck his hand.
Wouldn't it be possible for the house to invalidate the jackpot if Player C tried to muck his hand at the river with this type of board when he was all-in? What about their ruling to award the jackpot based on the results of the side pot? Comments, please.
This hand wouldn't qualify in most cardrooms. A strange ruling, but after all, it was in Canada...
I was once in a similar situation. I held the AK hand. When the other two players turned their hands up and I saw it was a jackpot, I mucked without showing. I made more with the share than was in the pot.
Yeah, but Brett you would have been aware of the Local Rules and aware enough at the table to make this play, assuming no one from the house would force you to display your hand at the river.
Interesting side-note. About 2 years ago, my 'student' was playing at the downtown casino due to a 1-day suspension from the West Edmonton Mall room for bad behavior (he slammed his first down on the houseman's desk after they folded his 3-6 game to start a 4-8, but I digress). At the Mall, as I said, quad's have to be pair-pair. Downtown, your kicker can play. Our Hero makes Quad Ace's - Queen kicker (A-Q in his hand) and loses to a Royal. Our boy mucks his cards,lamenting his bad luck losing to a Royal, not realizing that he just chucked 50% of a $5,400 Jackpot due to the differences in the qualifying rules from one room to the next. I hardly ever remind him of it.
As an aside, are you in LV this weekend? I will be at the Mirage and/or Bellagio on Saturday and would love to hook up if you're in town. We could drink about 30 or 40 'Merican beers, or whatever it would take to get a buzz.
I'm in LA. Hollywood Park to be exact. No more smoky poker rooms for me.
This hand never should have been awarded the bad beat. Naturally, this hand was the buzz of Edmonton poker rooms this week, and it's my understanding that the casino in question called TWO other Edmonton casinos, both of whom advised that this hand was not bad beat eligible, and the casino decided to award it anyways. Several dealers and housemen I spoke with were agahst at the decision.
it's end of the night and time has come to end the session. We all been there before,where stacks of chips lye just front of you whispering," take me home, take home!" The funny thing is that the goofy dealer pitches pocket Aces for the road. What do you do? I raised it in with four others in the hand. I felt very strong and confident. The flop is As,4h,2c. The perfect rainbow. I am first to act so I bet and got raised. I had this supernatral feeling that I shouldn't slow play my set. What do you know, every card has been raised to the max. The turn card comes Jd. What a perfect card I was thinking. The River card comes 3s. Now the board reads A,4,2,j,3. WHAT IN THE WORLD IS GOING ON? I knew for sure I just got bad beaten by the crazy S.o.B Who belived his As with a small kicker bet. My eyes just rolled out of place like the tv commercial with that heavy afroamerican women shooting her eyes out. What topped it off is when the asked me what da ya havvvvv? I knew he had no clue who he was butting heads with. Well, a perfect day until the last robbery mastered by a robber with a water gun. As 5h. Goodbye everyone.
Say you and I are playing a game where we toss a single die. You start with $1,000 and I start with $2. Every time an even number (2, 4 or 6) comes up, I pay you $1. Every time an odd number (1, 3 or 5) comes up, you pay me $1. When one of us is flat broke, the game is over and the winner walks away with $1,002. Of course, it would seem that it would be far more likely for you to win my lousy $2 than I am to win your $1,000. In fact, the entire contest could be over in two flips.
The question is: On average, how many flips will it take before one of us is wiped out? Pick from (a) 4 flips (b) 24 flips (c) more than 150 flips. Pick one of the three answers.
Source and answer later,
Without doing any math and using lazy man's logic it seems once the player with $2 in chips survives the first several rolls he is an overwhelming favorite to get all the money. He should survive these first few flips more often than not. But it will take far more than 150 flips to bust the other player. In fact, when the player who started with $2 survives the first few rolls, he should be able to take the other players money after about 680 rolls. So I am going to make a lazy man's guess that the answer is C).
Rick, I didn't think too hard over it (just quoted as have read it) but:
"once the player with $2 in chips survives the first several rolls he is an overwhelming favorite to get all the money" - Why? They are playing for $1 on 50/50 chance. Man with $900 is still 900 to 102 favourite to bust other player.
See my response under Dave below. Sorry about that.
But I did survive five trials. Two were two rolls and out, one was were four rolls and out, and two were six rolls and out. I vote for (a)four flips.
SPM,...24 seems like a good number...
This is not really an intuition question. Since the average EV is zero, mathematically speaking no one should ever bust out. Now in reality guy with $2 will bust out way more often since he can't survive the variance like guy with $1000 can. My answer would be >150 rolls.
I also don't understand Rick's comment about the guy with $2 surviving the first few rolls.
I misread the question. I thought the guy with $2 gets $2 when he wins the even money proposition and pays only $1 when he loses. So if he survives early he almost always wins.
1/4 * 2 + 1/8 * 4 + 5/64 * 6 + ...
hmmm, looks like things are going to blow up quickly...
I guess > 150.
for i = 1:10000;
roll = 0;
BRa = 2;
BRb = 1000;
a = sign(randn(1));
BRa = BRa + a;
BRb= BRb + a;
roll = roll + 1;
Data(i) = roll;
Yeah, It doesn't take very many 50,000 roll events to drive up the average! I wonder if its even well defined! I'm sure the log of the number of rolls would be better behaved, though...
After a few runs (one lasted 32 million rolls!) I'm pretty sure the mean is unbounded. The log(rolls) converges nicely to about 2.6, or 16 rolls.
My initial thread was exact quote from Michael Strato's and Marc Driver's interview with Marc Simon, an author of the book "Your Intuition is Wrong!". I found it at www.gammonvillage.com, book is at Amazon or Barnes & Noble.
Simon's answer: " One would think that with the overwhelming advantage of $1,000 to $2, you would wipe me out virtually every time in, say, a mere 6 or fewer flips. That does in fact happen, but on the average -- over half the time -- any game that begins with a string of wins on my part could end up going a very long time; in theory, it could go on forever. It actually turns out that the average length of our game is 2,000 flips, and so the correct answer is (c). "
My guess was like SPM's, about 24 rolls. My eldest son, Filip, wrote me short piece of software to make simulations (drop me an email if you wanna get it along with its source code). But... surprise! See the example results of 10 trials:
Every trial is 50 000 games. Average number of rolls : 4198, 3792, 3658, 4228, 3770, 3658, 3611, 4354, 3832, 3653.
I don't know why is so big difference from Simon's answer...
It's because the average is determined by the frequency of very rare events of huge numbers of rolls. These take a very long time to converge.
For example, in a coin toss, half the time you win a buck, half the time you lose a buck. The Standard deviation is sqrt( .5 * -1 ^2 + .5 * 1^2) ~= .7. This converges pretty quickly: in 100 trials, you know the expectation to about 10%, in 10,000 trials, about 1%, etc.
Now take another even game, in which you lose $1 99% of the time, and win $99 1% of the time.
Now, SD = sqrt(.99 * -1^2 + .01 * 99^2) ~= 14
So now, to measure an average to 1%, you need 2 million trials instead of 10,000.
SO, for our problem, with occaisional contests of a million rolls, its going to take lots of trials to accurately measure the average.
For a 1000 run test, I got a mean of 2396, and a Standard Deviation of 30,000. So to estimate the answer with simulation to within 100 would require: (30000/100)^2 = 90,000 rolls.
Hmm, thats less than the number your son did. Maybe he made a small error in his program? It should have converged...
The code I gave above gives pretty good results, for 10 1000 event runs :
Very Interesting puzzle!
I am thirty years old and I fought this world of bull crap dealing with the corporate life and unworthy people whom I have chosen to be friends and in the end when time comes for a push no one is there. Prior to today I was living a very affluent life til family friends and lovers turned against me after I decided to leave my profession. Due to misunderstanding at my workplace I lost my job making over six figures and my lady whom to be wife left me with debt and no money. I am turning to you guys, the poker compadres because I'm confident you understand the meaning of Bankroll! I have managed to scrape up 1600 dollars in cash and I have beatiful funitures to sell. It's never been sat on,lied on, nor touch by any other human being except for the guys that moved it into my house last year. If interested, respond and leave contact note. More importantly, I've played poker for nine years now and never thought of it as supplemental income. However, I've been told by others that I surely would succeed. I have one concern. That is I have 1400 dollars obligation every month. Do I have enough to crack the ice? Just assume that I can hold my own. Where can I get some active action with fairly decent players present? Last thing I need is to play on the table with 5 maniacs and 5 rocks. Higher the limit, the better. Please guide me to some consistant players in the midwest area. IL,Ind,Mich.
Sorry to hear you are having a bad go of it at the present. Been there done it. Two X wives, and more, the good news is sometimes you have to lose something to get something even better.
Things are looking up, they can't get any worse. I'd spend my time looking for another job, maniacs and rocks are in all games everywhere.
SPM,...feeling the pain, and knowing better things are heading your way...
Sorry to hear about the rocky times. Things will get better… they always do.
I was in the exact same situation as you two years ago. I was a partner in a consulting firm that was mis-managed by the CEO resulting in a subsequent closure. Not a good thing. I then managed to cover my expenses for a little over a year in the card rooms and private games around the Chicago area. It was a great year! It was a bullshit year… all rolled into one. You don’t know what a bad beat really is until you need the money for your kids. You can’t experience running bad until your bankroll needs a win in order to survive…. (of course this never happened to me!!!! HA!)
$1,600 isn’t a bank roll it’s a stake. If you wanted to play 10/20 I’d suggest at least $5,000 as a bankroll. Just do the math for larger stakes.
If you’re interested, here’s a few rules to live by for a “rounder”:
1. Your bankroll is your means of survival, your tool box. Protect it as such. You would never see a carpenter sell his tool box to buy a stereo… don’t sell (spend) yours either.
2. Keep your money in two different places. Your bankroll and the money you need to live off of. Never take money you need to live, and put it in your bankroll. As your bankroll grows, take the money you need to live.
3. Tilt/emotion is your worst enemy. Play like a machine.
4. Keep a player’s notebook. Make notations (after a session) about different players and the way the play.
5. Play the player and the hand. Never one or the other.
6. Very Very Very Very few people are cut out for this lifestyle. It requires discipline, money management, intellect and people skills to be successful.
7. Keep books, its your business. Know of any other businesses that don't keep books.
8. LOOK FOR A JOB
Hope some of this helps…..
That was fantastic advice for a rounder.I thought i was in trouble when you understood Siegels paradox but now your giving out good poker advice.Table change please.Lar
The most important point is #8.
And I would prefer a different table also.
This is a joke, right?
You made 6 figures but you only have 1600 in cash.
You had an affluent lifestyle but your monthly nut is only 1400.
How can someone who can't even spell hold a 6 figure job? when you say 6 figures, are you including the pennies? IE 8,000.00?
Frankly I don't think you stand a chance at poker. The good news, and I'm SURE you knew this, is that if you have the kind of job that pays 6 figures it is really easy to find another one.
That is, if you are telling the truth. And if the 6 figures doesn't include the pennies.
lol... i was wondering the same thing. 1400 a month.. rent/mortgage, utilities, car, insurance, food, entertainment. how would anyone do 1400 a month let alone a 6 figure corporate type?
and one other point if this thread is actually real (i would doubt it).
people without an adequate bankroll that need to win play scared. i have seen none of these people have any success.
$1400 a month after making a reasonable income, seems a pretty steep fall. But I know more affluent people, who found a change in lifestyle necessary, by the time their exes got through with them....
My wife's always telling me how I won't truly appreciate her housekeeping skills unless we should ever get divorced. Cuz, she'll keep the house!
I just wan't to respond to SmootheB's comment. Hey, I don't know who you are and I'm sure you're a decent person full of perspective. However, I don't believe that it's your place to judge or accuse the man of needing advice. I don't know what your current situation nor do I understand that man's disposition. Overwhelmingly, I do understand his misfortunes. I myself have gone through a similar dilema with my career and ex-wife. I've made a respectable income at age 26 and had a alluent life style one can imagine but oneday I woke up and find youself in a debt and no cash flow due to a malicious wife who premaditated to clean you out. This trusted person has depleted the joint account. Thank goodness the car is paid for, th house is paid for and rest of the toys were paid off. In the light of all things, even if one made good income in the past doesn't necessarily mean that one can just go and apply for an equivalent position with equivalent pay. Once an individual has been mentally,emotionally, and physically broken it's very difficult to recover to the original state. This could be the situation for the man needing advise. Maybe, he is looking for an outlet to better the situation. It seems like the figures he represent on the post seem unreal but the truth of possibilty is that it's very real. Although, I recommend that he should not become a rounder but that's his progative. For the future, I think that it would be cool if all the postmasters of this web to hold there prejedice comments unless it was requested. How else can we have others feel comfortable enough to share quality information on this sight? Everyone is entitled to opinions but opinions with no value is just words.
Well... I'm not a big fan of the poker in Australia yet. I've only found one casino which has it at all, and the biggest HE or 7cs game they spread is 6-12. Which, with the exchange rate, isn't even 4-8. I still tore up the game for a couple BB/hr, but when I convert the profits back to US dollars, it's kind of depressing.
The big games down here are played half pot. However, the popular games are 5 card stud and manila, neither of which 2+2 seems to have covered in much detail. But if anyone has some tips on 1/2 pot 5 card stud or 5 card draw (spread occasionally), I'd love to hear them.
Oh, and I forgot to mention that since the two or three casinos down here which spread poker pretty much have a monopoly, they can rake whatever they want. And they do. 4-8 HE is raked at 10%, capped at 6 bucks.
Wow... and some people wonder why internet poker is so popular. Looks like you need to get on-line or set up a home game.
The only 5CS advice I've seen is in Yardley's "Education of a Poker Player" which is not known for its playing strategies.
You must be in Melbourne as there was absolutely no poker in Sidney when I was there 2 months ago. I'd stick to laying at the beaches if I was you.
It's time for me to put on my shirt and tie and go to my part time job. Instead of beautiful cocktail waitress asking me if I need another drink? I have a sisxty years old secretary asking me how my evening went. As usual,I start the morning with my incredible exxagerated bad beat story hoping to see my six hours pass by quickly. Ofcourse, she doesn't have a clue what I am talking about so who gives f#$k. I was at Harrahs playing 20-40 and I heard the most interesting comments about some of the 10-20 regular players at Hollywood. I heard that few good players at Hollywood are self made millionaires,International atheletic coaches(soccer and tennis), Engineers,Financial brokers, and even MDs,PhD. Is this true or everyone has a decoy under their belt? Or are you guys all drama kings? Not that anything is wrong with that. Evidently, you all must have some good bankroll and play regularly for people to recognize you to be good and friendly. I didn't realize that there were group of good talented people inside the Hollywood casino. I have always ran into the "down needy greedy poker players" that would do anything to win but carry an IQ equivalent to the cows they raise at their farm. I guess it comes with the territory. At least I believe that social environment makes poker more interesting and fun. It's always nice to meet someone new and get the inside scoop on information regardless to it being circulated or not. I'm new in town and I wished I didn't live too far from Aurora,Il. Perhaps, I will make a weekend trip to meet some of you. It would be my pleasure. Is there Poker on the weekends?
Not real poker on weekends, Friday and Saturday, the room closes at 8:00pm. Get stuck and no way to get it back. Harraha's is the weekend action. Now Sunday is a different story, Hollywood has lots of action, and even more bad beat stories to tell your secretary.
We all hope you'll PAY us a visit. You'll have a good time, players are friendly unless they are experiencing a statistical cleansing. You will see it on their face and in their posture. Don't approach this player, he is in no mode for conversation.
During the week it's action, action, action, plus you get to eat at the Epic Buffet, eating the institutionalized way.
SPM,...defending the players right to play any two cards from any position...
Some of what you hear is true, some of it horse sh#t. But all and all the players at Hollywood Casino are decent folk. I play at Harrah’s and Hollywood. I enjoy the limits and action at Harrah’s better. I enjoy the people at Hollywood more.
Every room has its yokels, idiots, butt heads and jerks, but that is the nature of the beast. Stop by and you will be sure to find a decent game and probably have a good time.
Just an egg’s thoughts
The best 10-20 game around in the nation. I kid you not. Unless, You're from California. Even in California, the action might be good but you don't have the sophisticated players which Hollywood casino,Il draws.
I finally found this page on the web. Boy,did I circle around to find this thing. I went into 2plus2 and found some web designing company. What a dumb nut I was. Anyway, I've read al the material on this sight and I must say some are good and some are really bizzare. SPM, I have two reasons why I am writing this message to you. First of all, i want to tell you that you are playing more affirmative and strong. Your game has definitely improved. Whatever that means coming from the mouth of the biggest fish in Hollywood Casino. You just have to trust me on this I know what I am talking about. You're doing a fabulous job entertaining most of your poker mates with your witty writing skills. Also,I want to thank you for hooking up my Insurance license up to par. Most importantly, it was plaesure meeting you and knowing you on the poker table. Secondly, I would appreciate your efforts to have MD(chairman),Larry(professor),Mr. Joe King, Billy the electrician at the chgo merch,and Frank D,(IRS)to read this post. Hey guys, it probably doesn't matter much what I have to say but there is something I like to tell you guys before I leave. I am leaving to California then to Hawwaii to make my living arrangements I will probably be back near the last week of February to make my final decision. I was compelled to write this early because I have the tendency to forget. I have had the pleasure to not only play on the sme table with you guys but also had the pleasure to have lunch and got to know you away from the table. Unfortunately, my time is running out and I regret the fact that I didn't get to know you guys away from poker. I want to start with Mr.Joe King. I want you to know that I respect all elders and you I respect your game. Billy, I hope that your retirement plan becomes prosperous and wishing you the best of health to enjoy it. Frank, wishing you the best of health and life. Thanks for being there during my domestic crisis. It was very helpful and encouraging. Best wishes to you, even in poker.(Ha Ha). Professor Larry, I must say that I like your style of character and I wish that we could have established friendship outside of poker arena. You have always been informative and full of knowledge. I know that you have no problem holding your own on the poker table so I'm not going to hype you up. Good luck to you for the rest of the year. Mr.Chairman Micheal D. Do you want to buy my outdoor zicuzzi? I'm just kidding. Mike, I still ponder who provides more action on the 10-20-table you or me? then get back 2x in return? ha ha. Brother, I just want to tell you that you're one hell of a hustler. Ofcourse, in a good way. I 've seen many good(profitable) players and I must say that I enjoy your game. Do you know what a true friend is? A true friend is a friend who can see through the whole act but still enjoy the show. This does not apply only to poker. Mike, it was fun meeting you and plaesure playing with you. Hopefully, when I return we'll do lunch. Mike, good luck to you for the rest of the year. Finally, I know that most of you don't know me away from poker and I'm sure it really doesn't matter but I want you guys to know that away from your poker playing abilities you have made good impressions. Alright, your game is Okay too. On that note, I am going to leave you guys with a famous quote by Gandhi."The power of knowledge and grounds of knowing is not to reveal what you really know." I got through MBA and survived to play poker almost everyday without busting. See you guys soon.
Thanks for your kind words, it sounds like your moving away. We will miss you and your action. You always make the game fun. See you at the end of the month.
SPM,...don't leave, stay in Chicago...
I wish you the best of luck in whatever you choose to do. I have also enjoyed playing with you and you know found you to be one of the most entertaining players i have ever played with.As i have told you privately your a very sharp guy with a very bright future and a great attitude. Make sure you use all those attributes to there fullest in whatever you choose to do. Good luck. Lar
I must say, you truly posess one of the qualities that I respect in a poker player - ou are fearless. You are an extremely difficult opponent to play against and I never know where I stand with you.
Aside from that, and much more importantly, it has been great knowing you. You always are a good guy win or lose and you approach life with a zest that few can match. I am confident this will take you far. Good luck in all you do.
You are definitely on for that lunch - let me know. Keep in touch. My email address is listed above.
Just some thoughts...
Michael D. (Soccer/Sucker Mike D.)
Tony,I got your message. I hope all things are well for you. I guess your out of town and I am too. How did your meeting go last week Monday evening. I am preparing for my intelligence exam and I m going to see my living arrangement out in Cali and Hawwaii. Hopefully, this will unfold my devestating situation. Remember, life is short so don't sell yourself short. Learn to make good decision away from family pressure and outside interference. Go with your guts! Agood woman can make your life and a Bitch can ruin it! Believe me brother I been there and done that! Leave a post or message when you return. Call me on the Cell.
There will be no sugar coating today, no magic, no calvary, just the plan and simple fact that you can't run from a statistical cleansing. The foot steps I heard yesterday were real! The King of the Court of the Royal Flush, was wrong! I never left to do battle without a pair or a Knight of the house of Aces. Here's what happened.
The 10-20 feeder game was a shoot out, players from Clueless Ave. were everywhere. The first hand the SPM played AQ off foiled by rags. Second hand AQ off, shoot down in the middle of 2nd Street, by rags. Pocket Kings, beat on the flop by A9 off, held by Mr Ten Pins. He saw the action and figured any two can win, except the two Kings in the SPM's hand, he was right. Pocket Queens lost once, won once, no first down, no gain of chips. Pocket Jacks, not enough strength to beat off the 6-8 way action on most hands. The statistical cleansing was fast, two hours and 10 minutes the SPM handed over five and half stacks. "Go night all" the SPM said, "see you tomorrow." "Leaving so soon" they asked, "yes, one enema a day is all I'm allowed" replied the SPM.
As the SPM walked to his ride home, he tried to look on the bright side of the situation, he couldn't, there was no bright side. First game of the week and he was in a deep hole. Should he give poker up for life? The answer was ... ... ...who's kidding who here? Poker junkies can't give up poker, not because of just one loss. "They'll need to send me to the poor house before I give up" yelled the SPM, to the empty parking lot.
The ride home. Should have muck those AQ hands, I should have known the Pocket Kings would be assassinated. Pocket Jack's with eight way action what were you thinking? The SPM was in mind masturbation mode. Self pity, oh wow is me. Banging the vehicle ceiling, doors, passenger seat, anything not breakable. The SPM's hatred of losing was showing it's ugly head in private.
Home and in the bosom of my bride, things don't look so bleak, it's morning and yesterdays nightmare is over. I still haven't recorded the loss but I got a few hours before going back to the boat for revenge. I ‘ll recorded it as loss with a foot note, beware the clueless they have winning days.
SPM,...rested and going back for revenge...
Hey SPM, wanting to return for revenge as quickly as possible( a few hours) is one of the twenty questions of Gamblers Anonymous.
Welcome to my world.
You might mention to the mayor that 34o and 45o beat KK in a straddled pot for a raise when the board came Q4x and the 4 came on the turn. I believe i had KK an you had 34o and split the pot with the 45.I sure don'twant to create any misconceptions but wouldn't that mean the mayor entered my world an not yours.:)Lar
Is just down the street from low limit boulevard, where pocket aces can be rolled over by the Poster Girl playing 85o for "half price". 2 hands later, aces can be thrown in the trash due to their unsooted nature. On Clueless Ave, even a candlestick in the conservatory can't save you sometimes.
SO... I'm lucky enough to get 4 hundred dollar match play coupons from a broke gambler. That is, I put a $100 chip on any ~even money bet (red & black roulette, pass/don't pass, blackjack, etc) and the match coupon underneath. If I win, I get $200, If I lose, I lose $100. Either way, they take the coupon.
Question: How small can a bankroll be and still have this be a good bet?
EV: .5 * 200 + .5 * -100 = $50 / wager Variance: .5*(200-50)^2 + .5(-100-50)^2 = 22500 $$/Wager SD = 150$/sqrt(wager)
3SD BR = 9 * SD * SD / 4 / EV
= 9 * 22500 / 4 / 50 = $1025
This seems small, just wanted a second opinion.
The edge from these coupons is so big, and so much bigger than you're ever going to find anywhere else in the world of casino gambling (please tell me if I'm wrong), that I wouldn't care what my bankroll is. At most you lose $400., and you can earn that back pretty fast at any job. If you can't afford to gamble $400. out of your bankroll, you're so desperate you can't afford to pass on this opportunity, IMO.
If it's still a problem, find somebody else and sell them the coupons. They're worth almost $50 apiece, and you ought to be able to get at least $25 each for them.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Flying into Laughlin, NV on Friday for a weekend junket (it's a comp,OK!) Can't stand the prospects of spending the entire weekend with the LOL's and TOM's, so Student and I are renting a car for a day trip to LV on Saturday.
Already expect to hook up with Jim Brier and Paul Talbot at the Mirage sometime during the afternoon, but will also likely drop into the Bellagio for a while, if for no other reason than to try to wangle a buffet comp. If we have to slum it in the Mirage buffet, well so be it.
Any other LV and 2+2 posters expect to be around on the weekend? Hosh, Doc, Howard B? I've already met Mason, so looking to break new ground here.
I'm going to be tied up on Saturday. If you are going to be playing at Bellagio/Mirage or wherever, deep into the night, let me know. I should be hitting the card rooms at around 1:00 am Sat night/Sun morning. I would love to meet you.If that's too late for you, I understand.
Probably not that late, Howard. As I said, we are staying at Harrah's in Laughlin, and I can't see heading back there by dawn's early light.
But you never know.
Please say Hello from Vince to all those you have mentioned. Here's hoping you have a great time! Your next time in Vegas I should be there. See you then.
The Rose discussion below is great, fellas. It brings up the following related question: Is it too easy to get into the hall of fame?
Pucket (approximately) has 2000 hits and a .320 BA. Is that good enough?
No way is this a no brainer. Even with the watered-down standards of the HOF and his huggability, Kirby is on the edge at best. The ragged edge.
He was never the best player in the league, he only had a few dominant seasons, and due to his short career, his cumulative totals are not HOF caliber.
I am the world's biggest Don Mattingly fan, and he doesn't cut it either, although he has very similar career stats. And he was the best hitter in the AL for a couple of seasons.
These guys both had injuries that shortened their careers, but that shouldn't be given consideration. How come no one lobbies for the long list of power pitchers who blow their arms out after a few years? Position players shouldn't get preferential treatment.
Gary Carter and Ron Santo should be elected, though. Even if Gary Carter is an ass.
Take into consideration Kirby's considerable defensive skills, too. Mattingly won't make it, I think, because his prime really consisted of even fewer years than Puckett's. Ditto on Carter, and Santo is close.
Kirby was, at bets, an average centerfielder. I will grant you that centerfield is a much more important defensive position than 1st base, giving him a big edge over Mattingly.
However, a .477 slugging percentage for an outfielder that didn't steal bases, never walked, and had a short career just doesn't cut it.
I suggest you go to the link from my other post. At the bottom of the page, there is a list called "similar batters", which includes the 10 players which had career numbers most comparable to Kirby. Of these 10, only 2 are in the HOF, and 1 of them was a 19th century player and the other was a dead-ball era player.
Nice site; thanks for the link. But, did you overlook Kirby's six gold gloves?
I've never understood Nolan Ryan being there. Sure, he gould throw fast for an old man. But he didn't win that many more games than he lost.
Ryan shouldn't even be a question. 20 men have 300 wins, all of them are (and should be) in the hall of fame. Cy Young LOST 316 games and there is an award named after him! Ryan has over 5700 strikeouts (when 3000 gets anyone in the Hall), 324 wins (which gets anyone in the hall), and a respectable lifetime ERA of 3.18 (over the course of a 27 year career!)
Maybe Puckett should be in, he had 2300 hits (I was wrong earlier), but it seems hard to draw a line between some guys. For instance, Mark Grace has a lifetime BA of .308 (.010 lower than KP), SLG of .445 (.032 lower than KP), 1004 RBI's (71 fewer than KP, he'll likely pass him this season) 148 HR's (59 fewer than KP), 2201 hits (103 fewer than KP), OBA of .386 (.026 higher than KP).
Should Grace get in? What keeps him out and gets KP in? World Series? I'm the biggest Grace fan in the world, but I'm not sure (unless he hangs around for 3000 hits) I'd vote him into the company of guys who have 3000 hits and 500 homeruns like Aaron and Mays. That's a whole different league.
I'm not sure that I would trade a Mays even if I got 5 Kirby Pucketts in return.
I guess the hall of fame is too blunt an instrument to decide greatness.
Here are Kirby's key career stats compile in 12 seasons and 7244 at bats:
.837 OPS (on base plus slugging)
207 home runs
Here are those of another solid major leaguer, that most reasonable fans would argue is not HOF caliber. It is Al Oliver, who played from 1968-1984, an era marked by much lower offensive output.
18 seasons and 9049 at bats
If Keirby had played 5 or 6 more years, he would have reacked up 300+ HRs and more RBI and runs. But he didn't.
I vote no.
I was rather surprised he made it. I vote no as well. I like Kirby but I don't think he should be in.
As a lifetime Twins & Puckett fan I am sure I am biased.
I think it is clear to everyone that if he was not injured he would have 3000 hits and a lifetime .320 hitter. A clear hall of fame player.
The other thing that he has is 2 world series rings. Do not underestimate that for him going into the HOF.
So add the fact that he has a career ending injury/disease in the prime of his HOF career with 2 rings I think he should make it. Hard to say if he is a 1st ballot player but there are advantages in life of being very nice.
Ken- please read my posts above and maybe check ou the following link http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/puckeki01.shtml.
Why should Kirby get extra credit for haiving a career-ending injury? This has happened to lots of guys.
And that World Series stuff is crap. Paul O'Neill has FIVE rings.
I think the nice guy thing is what really did it for him. I just wish the writers/voters had more integrity than that.
And he was nowhere near his prime. He played his last season at age 34, and the decline had already begun. He had his "peak" season when he was 27. His best 3-year stretch was 86-88, when he was 25-27, so he actually peaked a little earlier than most players, who enjot their 5 prime years from about age 26 to 32 or so. The fall off after 35 is typically pretty steep.
As I said in my post I may be biased.
Kirby did not have a career ending injury. He had a disease that caused his career to end. I think there is a difference.
The two world series victories do mean something. Kirby in both years was one of the top 2 players on the team. As well both of those teams over-achieved. His play and presence was a key.
I agree his best 3 years were 86-88. But if you look at his final 2 years they were also very impressive. His speed was gone but he had some of his best power numbers and his rbi/ba/slugging was quite impressive.
If I wasn't so fat and slow, and such a terrible hitter, I would have 3000 hits too.
I don't think "shouldas" ought to count for the HOF.
If they do, I want Bo Jackson in both halls right now.
My own opinion is no, Kirby doesn't belong.
However, I strongly believe the writers have given Kirby credit for the years he missed at the end of his career.
If his injury had been baseball related, he wouldn't have gotten the extra credit, IMO.
This doesn't make it right or wrong, but I believe you should be judged by what you did on the field, with 2 exceptions:
Time missed for military service, and careers shortened due to the failure to break the color line.
I was wondering if any one else had problems with their two plus books. Almost every two plus two book I own is in at least two distinct pieces (That includs Holdem Poker, HFAP, TOP, Skansky on Poker...) ! It seems the binding starting falling apart very soon.
I think the books should be made better! Not very many of the other books I own fell apart let alone so soon.
Maybe this isn't the best place to put this but I am somewhat annoyed...
Yeah my first version of TOP fell apart on me but that was the old 2+2 books. The new ones are printed on high quality paper.
We had trouble for several years with our book printings. Even though we paid top dollar, we were just not able to get good bindery work. Now that we are at our sixth bindery the problems seem to be solved.
For the past three years, none of our books have been put together unless I was present in the bindery to inspect the finished product. This now includes trips twice a year for several days at a time to Southern Califonia where our bindery work is now done. (Recent books that appear to be done top notch include Inside the Poker Mind and The Psychology of Poker.)
You may find these problems annoying, but they have been far worse for us at Two Plus Two (and for our printer here in Nevada who has suffered with us). The bad covers have literally cost us thousands of dollars in returned books and redos in which some of our inventory gets destroyed. Plus, they have irritated many people like yourself who are our potential future customers for any new books that we do.
Rest assured that we are making every effort to achieve top quality production in all aspects of our future printings. We appologize for any problems this may have caused you.
how about a cross referenced directory for all your works (including essays) which would allow the reader to get more info faster about any given subject. i notice in psychology by schoon he sometimes makes usefull references...i sometimes find myself spending time going thru especially the essays or gfal because i KNOW there is something there which will help reinforce an important point in hefap or top and... bingo when i find it that gets worked in better for actual use at the tables...are you coming out with another essays soon? hope hope, even tho many of the articles were p[ublished i think it is very usefull to have them organized....
Have youthought about offering some hard-bound editions? I wouldn't mind having a more durable set of books that can stand to be reread many times. Specifically, hard-bound edition of the "For Advanced Players" series and Theory of Poker.
mason you blew it. you should have told everyone they needed a backup copy of all the books as they are selfdestructing, then our sales would double. then i could go back to san francisco where everything costs double for no apparent reason.
"then i could go back to san francisco where everything costs double for no apparent reason. "
"for no apparent reason." Z, are you serious. Have you ever seen a bear in San Fran. Get real. How about sheep doody? Yeah, none of that either. Now let's purview your Mountain Cabin in MON=TAaaa-Na. Let's see. Over here we got duh wood stove. That's equivalent to central heating in San Fran. Oh the grage out back with the half moon ain't really a garage. We uses it fo different purposes here in MON-TAaaa-Na now don't we Ray?
"for no apparent reason." Listen boy, when you are in SAN FRANSISCO you gotsta pay for that stuff them ewes give you for free back home. That's called civilization in San Fransisco. Or maybe it's called free enterprise. Either way I wouldn't let them sheep find out. They may just decide to close up shop and move to San Fran "for no apparent reason."
thanks, vince vince
He was born on a mountain top in Tennessee, but his kin folk moved to Nebraska and the boy lived on a farm. He milked the cows, picked a few million dozen eggs, pictched hay, and by the time he grew into manhood. He decided he was not farmer material.
Instead he became the famous Sharif Bob. On his desk was the code he lived by, have gun will in force the law. The small town in Nebraska was safe because Sharif Bob was on the job. (The town has asked us not to mention them by name. We will honor their request.) Sharif Bob was a lean hombre, but he was fast, and could eat his weight in viddles. Viddles was one of the fringe benefits of being, the Sharif on the job.
It didn't make no difference how much Sharif Bob ate. He still had to put a brick in each of his back pockets just so the wind didn't blow him into the next County. (The County has asked us not to mentioned them by name. We will honor their request.) The Town Consul awarded Sharif Bob, The Sharif Departments "Employee of the Year Award" being the only employee in the Sharif's Department, Sharif Bob accept with humility.
After Sharif Bob caught the Murphy Brothers, and sent them home to their mom. He decided to hang up his gun and give up the Law. Eventually he found his way into a card room. He tried making a living at playing cards, but he soon found himself dealing the cards to players. He went from card room to card room around the Country. He ended up learning his craft from one of the greats in the card room business. (The great one has asked us not to mention his name. We will honor that request.)
Bob the Floor was his name, and card room management was his game. He was a lean mouthy lad who always had a couple of bricks laying around. When the action was stopped and the dealer needed a ruling, Bob the Floor was the answer man. Action resumed in record time. Bob the Floor had potential, he was going places.
Somehow however, he must have really gotten some body P O ed like real upset, nobody knows the whole story. Because he end up running the card room at Hollywood Casino in Aurora, IL. He goes by Uncle Bob now. He's still mouthy and has a sign on his desk that says, Have Security Will In Force the Rules. Now in his spare time you will see him lurking on 2+2.
SPM,...we know your lurking on 2+2 Uncle Bob, and ask your dealers to stop calling for me and Mr Ten Pins...
Fiction is always better than truth. Thank's SPM for not mentioning those who wish to remain anonymous.
He was slumped over his computer his head was pounding, sleep evaded him, he was lost in Border Town (BT) with Mr Emotional. It all started with the crazy notion that a statistical cleansing was a foot. He had heard the foot steps, Mr Emotional got spooked and pushed him into a cab, headed for BT. Now two days later, drunk on his own emotions, the SPM was beside himself as Mr Emotional.
Another round of emotions said the SPM to his old advesary Mr Emotional. No problem Suburban, how about this one. Your up two stacks and getting ready to go home. You look down and see pocket aces Mr Cappy raises and you re-raise and of course he Caps it. The flop appears friendly so you bet, Mr Cappy raises, you re-raise, he of course caps it. You lose on the turn to a king high straight Mr Cappy beats you again. But you don't realise it until the river. OH! That was a strong one, I felt that all the way to my soul. Give us an emotional chaser bar keep, how about losing to a gut straight on the river to a guy holding 23 off. After you flopped the top set. Okay pour us a round of that said the SPM.
BT where emotions run a muck, where reason is lost in a sea of emotions. Where calling a raise with J9 off seems reasonable. The BT blues it's worse than PMS, and more deadly to a bank roll than a man with a gun. The SPM was lost in BT.
Mr Emotional is so clever, you can play a solid game of cards with the best of them for weeks. You seem to have a horse shoe following you to every game. And then without a moments notice, you look over your shoulder and there he is, Mr Emotional. He waits, he lingers, he prods you, did you here what that guy said about you, he whispers in your head, he called you a rock. I'm no rock you retort in your head conversation with Mr Emotional, I'm just a celebrity. But he's just baiting you, waiting for that one moment when all the emotional junk comes pouring out and any two cards look real good. But your bank roll begins to evaporate.
SPM,...lost in BT, can someone send a swat team to save me, he's got me trapped, at the bar, he's spiking my drinks with emotional trauma. HELP ME I'm being statistical cleansed...
I looked over and saw you in the 10/20 last night. You looked like a man who could be beat… who was beat… A man who had received the statistical cleansing enema and was sticking around for another treatment. You being beaten was a self fulfilling prophecy.
At the end of Caro’s book the Fundamentals of Wining Poker he goes over a little exercise that he does at the end of his live lectures. He asks everyone to repeat after him: “I am a lucky player. A winning force surrounds me.” Go ahead… say it. Say it louder… with feeling this time. Feel better now… I thought so! Just so you know, that winning force is your knowledge of the math, theory and appropriate play at the tables.
If you think you’re beaten, you will be. If you look like you have lost, you will. Have a positive attitude! Your knowledge of the short term deviations of poker should give you the comfort you need. Don’t ask yourself “Did I win today?” But rather “Did I play well today?” For if you play well every session, every hand… winning will take care of itself. Repeat… Don’t focus on the win, focus on the play at the moment. Every poker hand stands alone statistically.
Hang in there and get the hell out of border town!
Just an egg’s thoughts.
Oh, does SPM ever have you fooled! That hang-dog look on his face? He practices in the mirror to look like that. He sits at the table, spinning the tires of his Tipmobile...a soft sigh escaping his lips..looking like his shoulders are the only thing holding up the world! All the while plotting away to scoop every last chip you own! And then he'll give you that "oh woe is me" whimper and moan, "oh my..i got so lucky that hand" as he drags yet another stack of your money to his pile. Trust me...all of us regulars know that look of his...we call it the "fishie, come hither to feed at my shallow pond" look. When he puts out his lower lip and dons his sunglasses, I collect my paltry pile of chips and run for the door! Don't let him fool ya! SPM ... I hear tell he fakes other things too..hehe
Don't you get sick and tired of hearing Phil Hellmuth stating in EVERY single interview he does, that he has the ability to "Look into your soul." If you'd like to hear him say it for the Billionth time, at deja.com there is a preview of of an up and coming interview he's doing for ABC news.
Instead of looking into people's souls, I wish he'd look into updating his 'High Limit Results.' The one that's there now has got to be at least eight months old.
I think he is waiting to have a winning session.
Seriously, he said he was giving up ring games to focus on tournaments and admitted that his ring game skills might be overrated.
Did he say that in an article?
I doubt that his ring game skills are over rated by the good ring game players which he use to sit down with. I'm sure that they know his results.
By the way, it is my opinion that the best poker players BY FAR are the good ring game players.
My image of Hellmuth is from one of the WSOP videos (1998 maybe) where his AK gets beat by KQ suited and he goes ballistic-starts whinning and crying like your average sub normal player who gets a bad beat put on him. He definately did not display a professional image or attitude in that instance. I have found that highly intelligent people dont need to brag about or say how intelligent they are-they know it and have the confidence that their intelligence will be realized by what they do and not what they say. Hellmuth falls far short of who he thinks he is...
and appears to be a compulsive gambler. He's gone belly up several times. Psychologically, he's not happy until he's on the rail pressing one of his former backers for a loan. Sad, isn't it?
Do you mean 'as opposed to tourney players' or what? I'm not sure I understand the definition of ring game. Does it exclude/include no limit/pot limit games?
Ring game has more then one meaning.
Let's see what Wiesenberg's on-line poker dictionary has to say on the subject.
Ring Game - 1. A game with several players(generally seven or more),as opposed to a short game. The term often refers to a completely full game. 2. Any non tournament game.
It is my belief that Mason had the second definition in mind in his post.
Other terms often used for non tournament games are cash games, and side games.
"He called me with QJ.. (whine) (mope) (cry) I cant believe it, how could you call me with QJ? (stomp) (shove a chair) That guy just called me with QJ... the guy with all the chips there...
Hehehe... just can't get enough.
Be the flop... See the flop... You're not being the flop, Phil.
PS- to everyone who saw my KTo get slaughtered by JdTd last night I say... "He called me with JT! (whine) (mo.... oh forget it, just not my style. :)
I had the video clip but lost it. 'Twas great!
Go to www.abcnews.go.com and look for the webcast link on the middle right. Check the Amarillo Slim Video. Both have some fun stuff. Helps if you have broadband.
In the Q-J incident, I love when he refers to the guy who called him with Q-J as "The Live One."
If he had won the hand he would have been giddy, which leads to agree with the poster in this thread who refers to Phil as a compulsive gambler. Conpulsive gamblers are notorious for over reacting to winning and losing.
...are his inane articles in CP.
About the only thing we see written is "I liked my bet. I didn't think much of his call. I then liked my moving in. I hated his call etc."
Just the kind of advice we need to better our games:)
His has the ability to play a flawless game of poker. Especially no-limit. He also has the ability to be the biggest fish in the room. Very strange.
1. The first time that I went to the world series, (about 5 years ago) I sat behind him for six hours (his table was right behind the stands for the final table) in the $5000 no-limit event. He absolutely dominated the table for the entire period, not making a single mistake. He didn't call and lose once. He showed big laydowns, and was shown a better hand everytime. I went away with a new standard of how the game should be played.
2. I played in the Legends of poker tournament two years ago, and was seated at his table for one of the no-limit events. Well, he proceeded to run the table over for a while and then this hand came up. PH under gun, me small blind. PH limps. Alarm bells go off to everyone playing attention at the table as he has raised every hand he played coming in. Obviously AA or KK. 5 other limpers to me, with K7o. I call one more chip and the seven of us take the flop of 742. I check, BB checks, PH checks, all check. Turn 7. I check, PH bets. All fold to me, raise (can't remember how much, but alot). PH calls (?). What can he have, I wonder. He MUST know I have a 7. River blank. I bet all-in, PH stands up (he is now all-in) and calls. PH has KK. He then proceeds to berate me for beating KK with K7o. He screams across room to friend to tell him that we are trying to give him all of our chips. He then says "you must be a great player to beat KK with K7o. I'm confused, because I have never seen him play this BAD. It was like he had to let the ENTIRE tournament know that he was sucked out on. Tremendous insecurity.
I know that I am not anywhere near the player that he can be. I think most people know that he can play great when he wants to. I've also been told that he is much better at controlling his temper now than he was a couple of years ago.
Anyone with information regarding what hotels in Atlantic City have regular hold'em games going and what the poker rate may be, please e-mail me at the above address.
Trop and Taj both have regular hold'em games.
Trop has best poker rates, but I don't know the exact room rates.
I think that Trop is $59 Sun-Thur, $79 Friday, and $89 on Saturday, the rooms are nice. You need a poker card and must play for 4 hrs each day. They tend to discontinue the rate during the season but this time of year it's a good deal. Call the poker room at 888-pokerac (I think) for more info.
Question for other posters, does anyone notice a difference in the $5-10/$10-20 games between Trop and Taj, in my experience Taj games seem to be easier. I was speculating that this might be because Taj gets more casual drop in, gamble a bit, type of players but since Trop is a bit away from most of the casinos people go there for a reason and hence know how to play better.
Yes, the games are better at the Taj. Not only are there more casual players, but there are more players period. I have tried to give the Trop my business, only to find one table of 10-20 with a seven person list that doesn't look like it will move for hours.
In a HE10-20 game , I ask to to th guy who hold the club what he has for hot food tonight ; " I haven't had time to buy anything , if you want to order a pizza , I will pay " . While I was ordering , I missed my blinds , I come back and post on the cutoff , 10-10 are dealt to me , and I raise it , SB ( which is the club holder and a aggressive player) re-raise , other player in the hand call , and I call ....to make it a short story ; 5 small cards were on the board and the aggressive player has AA ! . The pizza has been very expensive to me even if I haven't pay it direcly . Anybody has a moral about that story ?
Moral of the stor is if you miss your blinds wait until the blinds comes back to you before you post.
Other moral is even maniacs can get a real hand once in a while.
The maniac of the other storie in general theory forum has 93suited when he has raise UTG . I know that even if your opponent is a maniac , he could have a better hand ...
To quote that moron Roy West-"save me a slice"
When the boss hits your eye
with a bigga pizza pie
Your a loser!
A pizza in the belly is worth two Aces in the hole!
Pizza and poker don't mix!
Don't let the pizza hit you in the ass when you lose!
Don't let your opponent buy you a pizza! Son of a bitch!
Pizza goes better with Aces!
The repetitiveness of the game, lighting speed at which cards arrive, and the overwhelming number of things to remember, may cause dizziness. Here is the short version.
What position am I in? What are the starting requirements for this position? Oh no, he raised, what are the new requirements for this position, should I re-raise? Oh, that guy re-raised, what's my starting requirements for three bets, from this position, CAPPED now what?
Ugly fit or beautiful fit, easy fold, hard fold, check, bet, call, raise, re-raise, check raise, or release? What does he have? What does he think I have? What does he think, I think he has? What does he have? Is he on a draw, did he flop a set, two pair, top pair, no pair, or a partridge in a pair tree?
Did the turn help or hurt my hand, his hand, her hand, any hand? Oh boy, check, bet, call, raise, re-raise, check raise, or what? Can they make a straight, a flush, a full house? Who acts first, who's still behind me? What's the nuts, could it be lurking? Who would lurk? Why did he bet, raise, check? Are they betting the nuts? Betting for value? Are they on a bluff or semi bluff, or just plain bluffing with the best hand and they just don't know it? Should I bluff?
Are there four to a straight, flush? Did I improve? Did he improve? Did they improve? What is the nuts? Best hand wins, or last player standing. And a few more things in between.
Deal the Next Hand>
Where's the button? Am I early, middle, late, or just blind? If I see another (^%% duce, will I scream out loud? "I AM NOT THE KEEPER OF THE S#^$T Cards?" Or will I call, raise... oh a duce, FOLD.
Playing Texas Hold'em and making decisions, while under the pressure of live action from tough competitors. Hand, after hand, after hand, it's like being in a pressure cooker. The time sure does pass rapidly. :-)
SPM,...it's no wonder playing hold'em scrabbles your mind, wears you out, so... Deal the cards!
Button's Moved - Cards in the air!!!!!
Just some thoughts...
Michael D. (Soccer/Sucker Mike D.)
Were's the straddle button?!?
Responding from across the state. Put your size 50 waist pants back on and just bet it til you get raised then assess what others could be on! If not, take the dress your wearing and put it back in your wife's closet before she finds out she's missing an outfit! Ha Ha.
does everyone think that mason and david should censor more posts on this site?I know they are trying but I feel they need to censor more.
Hey Nicolas Fradet, you moron!
When you are going to post your anonymous, inane and absurd analogies, don't forget to delete your email address next time.
And get a dictionary and look up the definition of "censor." Only the state/government can censor something or somebody. This is a private site and David and Mason are private citizens.
You must be French. Do us all a favor and do what the French do best- go on strike from posting on this forum until your demands are met.
What dictionary are you using? Censorship can be done by anybody. Being a government official isn't a requirement.
This is technically true, but it also has nothing to do with free speech.
The idea that private citizens do not have the right to dictate the editorial policies of their own forum of discussion is ludicrous. They can censor all they want just as you have the right to do so on any forum you construct (or why you have the right to kick someone out of your house for saying something you don't like). Furthermore they violate no freedoms even should any censoring be totally capricious in nature.
What Michael 7 was pointing out that since the government is not involved, anyone who has something to say can go ahead and say it. Just maybe not here.
If you feel that too many posts are stricken from the forum why not set up your own forum for rejected 2+2 posts? No one is preventing you from doing this so Michael is indeed correct in principle. No one is taking away your right to say what you want.
Thanks for the support, Talbot. Not that I need an assist with a knucklhead like Nick. I decided against a direct response after being reminded to ignore trolls like below.
To clarify, I was referring to the common definition of censor, which is an "an official authorized to examine material to suppress content deemed objectionable..." The common usage and logical interpretation of this definition is that the "official" has some state-granted power, otherwise why does he need to be authorized? Nick was clearly referring to (and misapplying) this concept of censorship.
Who are you calling knucklehead? You're the one who can't read a dictionary. The first (1.) definition of 'censor' does not imply in any way governmental authority. You just have this confused idea about it because censorship by the government is a controversial topic that frequently pops up in the news.
By the way, I'm not the Nic / Hitler original poster. It seems to me he just (using a dumb name) posted a simple question reflecting a sentiment that a lot of 'respectable' posters here share. That some posts here are worthy of deletion. You seemed to come down pretty hard on him for it.
I alwyas look at these one word derogatory posts to see if they are directed towards me. Not this time. Thanks.
I just want to say that this forum and the Two Plus Two books have helped me to improve my poker immensely to the point where I now can win fairly consistently. But I have encountered several problems. I regularly play a pot limit game at my college (for small stakes) which is an absolute easy clean, and in which I have accumulated a bankroll of just under $1500 in about a year. I agree with Mason's writing that it is MUCH harder to win at limit b/c you can't protect your hand as easily and there are a lot of gray areas. My problem is that I can't afford casino pot limit and 3-6 seems like a crapshoot to me; the suckouts are immense and with the high rake, it seems like nobody wins consitently and almost all the money is dropped. I really want to move up to 10-20, but don't wanna risk going bust in my first session. How much money do I need? Should I take the shot? Also, how does everyone else manage their bankroll? When can you start to siphon profit? I want to become a more serious recreational player, and am looking for any tips anyone has on this.
$1500 is about perfect for a starting 3-6 bankroll. It's _way_ short for 10-20. Even if you are a very good player, there's a good chance you'll be broke inside of 100 hours. (After which, expectation ~= 1500 and 1 SD = 2400.) I had two back to back 50 BB losses in 10-20 in January: 1100 & 1150. I have the bankroll to withstand it (an 85BB win in December saved my rear end), but I still moved back to 5-10 to regroup for a couple of weeks.
I think it's important to disabuse yourself of the notion that 3-6 is harder to beat than 10-20. If by crapshoot you mean that people are staying too long on crappy draws and hitting them, them thank the gods, you've found a great table. The relative rake increase means you only need one extra mistake for every pot you win. It will be there, I promise.
Yes, you will get sucked out on, and this could conceivably drive your variance up. Maybe it will be 20 BB/hr ($60) in 3-6, and only 12 BB/hr ($240) in 10-20. But as you can see, the variance is much cheaper in $ for the smaller game.
Do yourself a favor, give 3-6 and then 5-10 100 hours each. After you crush those games with a quasi-stastically significant sample time, come back and gloat and I promise to eat crow gracefully. :-)
But if I am not playing casino poker professionally (I am talking twice a month here), is it worth it to take a shot at 10-20 with say 300 (1/5 of my bankroll which i could always rebuild at school in the likely event I lose it) so that I could move up permanently? Also, I do realize that these suckouts indicate a good game, but I think that with rake and tips, I am taking the short end of the stick; if I could play it every day I might be more content to grind it out. BTW what is appropriate to tip, I think I cost myself (I tip $1 for every pot unless it is a tiny chop). Also, is a daily loss limit reasonable?; I find that I will continue to buy in with almost no limit if I am stuck (I have been in a 3-6 game over $400 and grinded it down to a small loss). I just find that I am going to war at 3-6 for a potential 150-200 win (while often risking much more in these wild games), when maybe I should just keep building until I can hit the 10-20 (or at least 5-10) more consistently.
PS/Anyone regularly play 3-6 at the Trop? I would definitely like to exchange e-mails and discuss players. I think these games are pretty tough compared to other low limit games and would like to compare notes (or u can comment here).
I started at 3-6. After about 150 hours I moved up to 5-10. I got my clock cleaned twice at 5-10, tightened up, started winning, and after about 9 months of play every other weekend moved up to 10-20. You cannot rush things. I remember first sitting down in a 5-10 game and thinking it was TOUGH. About 2 months ago I was on the 10-20 list at the Taj and sat down at a 5-10 game -- it was a joke how easy the game seemed.
When I played 3-6 at the Taj, I found that there were enough awful players to make the game beatable. Also, I think the games at the Taj are much better than the Trop. The Taj room is very visible, so you will get complete novices at the table.
"is it worth it to take a shot at 10-20 with say 300 "
No. Think about it. If you lose your first hand you will begin to worry about losing. Then you are lost. I asy that because moving up is a new experience for you. You should expect to make mistakes when trying anything new. Even though the game is the same the limit you play at makes all the difference in the world. If you want to take a shot. Regress here for a moment. I play 15-30 regurarly. I also want to move up. I don't have the BR to do it comfortably. I don't want to put in the hours necessary to win enough to have a BR for the higher limits. So I have decided to take a "shot" occaisionally. I beleive you must have a minimum of 50 big bets. Preferably 100 to take a shot at the higher limit. This has to be money that will not affect you in any way if you lose it. That's not to say that you don't care about the money. Just that it won't cause you anye economic or psychological harm if you lose it.
Now when you go to the TAJ for that shot. The most important thing for you is "Game Selection." Not only is it important but almost impossible to control in a Casino enviroment. What you must do is look over the games. Put your name on the list. When you get called for a game if it is not to your liking ask to be rolled on the list. Or if you know how to protect yourself from losing a lot take the seat and put your name on the transfer list for the game of your choice. Then play tight and wait.
Now what happens if you get to the TAJ and all the 10-20 games are full of local gibralter pros. Don't despair. Look over the 5-10 and try that if it's good. If not 5-10 do the 3-6 game until the other levels get better. If they don't then don't you take a shot. Wait until the time is right and give yourself the best chance of winning with what may be your only shot for a while.
Vince is giving you some good advice. You may want to take half your bankroll and risk it in an inbetween limit such as $6-$12. If you lose it, then back to $3-$6 with the rest of your money.
I play the lower limits regularly at the Trop (5&10 down to 2&4). All of these limits are beatable. However, there is a noticeable difference in the game based on the day of the week and time. Weekday afternoons, there is nothing but old fart rocks, no gambling in the game. On the weekends and some weeknights it is the loose kind of gamblin' game you want to be in.
If bankroll loss is not a concern, fire away. It's just important that you understand the risk, and then whatever choice you want to make is just that, your choice. But just know, that if are taking a $300 shot at 10-20 (15 Big Bets), its equivilent to going over to the craps table. Your edge will be completely dwarfed by the standard deviation.
You do owe it to yourself to enter the keywords "risk of ruin" into google, and do a little research.
There's a book I really enjoyed, called "Shut Up and Deal", by Jessie May, in which he described a winning streak that started with a $1000 stake he borrowed, and he never looked back.
Best of luck!
Check This out:
Now this is set up for BlackJack, but it will work just as well for poker. Just substitute your hourly rate and hour SD for win/100 and SD/100.
For BR = 15, Win = 1.5, and SD = 14, ROR = 80%
excellent post: you are a winner
Who cares if you go broke? you're not a pro right? I have read much of what Mason has to say about bankroll and have discussed the issue with several longtime pros in this area. Basically, if you play poker for a living you have to be very, very conscious of what limit your bankroll can handle. This is because going broke would be a total disaster. Its different for people like you and me though. Going broke is a bummer, not a disaster. we can always rebuild a stake in a short period of time and the upside potential of playing at a higher limit is worth the risk of going broke. my recommendation is to play 15-20 hours of 3-6 so that you can get a feel for the casino game and then move up to 10-20 if it looks like a good game.
Nice article. I found it very helpful on playing overcards. Hope to see you in there more.
For those who haven't read it:
Yeah I liked Jims article too. Too bad the rest of the authors are yokels (except Daniel Negreneau, that guy is cool). Keep up the good work Jim.
The article stunk. Typical "A B C 's of Holdem" stuff that Brier always writes.
Ahh. A literary critic is born. Well, Nate, the article WAS entitled "Hold'em Essentials". I don't think there is anything wrong with an article that explores poker basics, especially an area like overcards which tends to give a lot of players trouble. I don't hear you disagreeing with any of Jim's advice. If you do so disagree, this forum is a great place to explain your reasoning.
jim: i always enjoy your posts...i enjoyed reading the CP article and as usual is well written and logical. However, is your playing here really weak tight?
You have to know how to get away from High cards that do not connect, but I would bet in to you regularly with rag flops.
If you publish, i will certainly buy as soon as available. Your abilities are clearly evident and i like your writing style...I would love to see an advanced book that teaches by specific hands. When I was learning Backgammon there were several problem oriented books that took the player from intermediate to beginning advanced and I think that is a niche you could fill well...gl and i hope you keep posting as you have...i know the smaller players on the site really appreciate it...
I am interested in learning backgammon. What books do you recommend?
bill robertie has both a starter book and he has problem oriented books out that are outstanding..also the chicago backgammon club has a web site that has info and usually a problem to analyze... gl
Do you know the titles of the Bill Robertie books? Thanks for your help, Scott
winning bg and 501 essential problems in bg and bg for serious players are 3 books by bill robertie and are cheap and available thru barnes and noble... what you really need to do is go to yahoo games and play bg on internet..a real good way to get experience and network gl...by the way watch out for backgammon egos...bad beats bring out the worst in bg players more so than poker players
ScottM, yesterday I started to answer yoy but this online poker is too time consuming... Tomorrow I will post my opinion on BG books you need.
"bad beats bring out the worst in bg players more so than poker players" - Scalf, in my experience nothing is farthest from truth. I played BG tournaments all over Europe, also plenty,plenty of cash sessions, but never saw any incident comparable to what you see on every night poker session at public cardroom.
I am writing a book on post flop play. It will consist of about 300 problems. The problems that I used in the article as well as the problems that will be used in the book come from live play where the player made a mistake. All of my recommended answers in any article I publish or any book I write will have been reviewed by at least one, and in some cases more than one, professional player.
The title should be "The A,B,C's of Holdem"...
I think it has the potential to be a great book. The best part is we will spend the next five years disecting about half the problems on the forum :-).
hey when you write or comment that is a top expert's opinion...and i do not think there would be much argument from most 2 + 2 posters, even those who disagree... i eagerly await your project... i wonder if you will be ready for the onslought of feedback/criticism.. you might get a lot of people asking if you teach/coach developing players... i bet you would be outstanding as a tutor and would quickly develop some tough newbies..gl
Whose Jim Brier and what makes him an expert?
Whose Vince Lepore and what makes him a critic? (couldn't resist this shot)
I encourage you to include your limit hold 'em quiz in any book you publish. I found it very helpful and it could easily be included as an appendix.
This is a well-written, helpful article. I'm glad to see that Jim is finally getting paid for some of his writing - he has contributed a lot to this forum for free.
This is a very good article. If you are a loosing player you will do well to follow the advice in this article as well as Jim's posts on 2+2.
The double whammy semi-bluff-check-reraisers will blow this off and berate it I'm sure. Whatever works for them is fine.
ps. Don't show your laydowns to anyone.
This man isn't feeling very well and he goes to the doctor for a complete physical and the doctor contacts him a few-days later and says he needs to set up another appointment immediately... The guy comes in that night after work and the doc says... I have some good news and bad news... The patient says... what's the bad news? The doctor says... After we got back the results of your physical it looks as though you only have 6-months to live... and the patient is totally shocked,shakin' & saddened by what he just heard... and then his voice quivering & soft asks... what's the good news?... and the doc slightly opens the office door and says... ya see that beautiful-voluptous blonde for a receptionist I have... and the patient nods... and he says... well...I'm XXXin' HER!
A guy whom I know, accepted my proposal to play BJ against me. He is very rich and earning much more than used to gamble in everyday casino visits.
Lets say I wanna put $1000 at risk for one session. We will be changing dealing alternatively. I know all I should on the subject, he knows nothing (lets presume he plays below basic strategy level). We will play with 6 deck, I will be dealing all cards against him and he against me at least 3/4 of a shoe (he has no idea about card counting).
I need suggestion: what strict rules re limits and number of boxes should I propose to have a chance against Standard Deviation (rules of play are standard and will be identical as in our casino)?
Thanks in advance,
You said you would be dealing all the cards in one sentence and in the next you said 3/4 of the cards. that's a big difference. If you deal all the cards and you know how to count you're gonna get the money. the lower you make the limit the better chance you have to win, although I don't know the math on it. I would try to get him to deal ALL the cards. Dino. Is this a one-shot deal?
Dino, I said I will be dealing full shoe but expect him to deal 3/4 (as we will be changing player - dealer roles).
I wouldn't encourage him to deal full shoe as I don't want him to think on this subject too much. IMO it matters not much cuz being dealer I also have tremendous advantage.
Of course I know he has no chance in long run (as I wrote I am pro...ficient enough) but my real enemy is SD. Guy has enough money to bet heavily.
Is this one-shot? - hope not but my first concern is to not lose my BR.
When you're dealing, you probably have an edge against him of at least 2%, maybe a lot more, depending upon the quality of his decisions. Normal Kelly criteria betting says you should bet 2% of your bankroll if you have a 2% edge, so you could limit his maximum bet to a number that is about 2% of your bankroll. So, if you have $1000, limit him to $20 bets. Or, you could make the limit higher, if his typical bet is going to be less than the cap (limit himto $40 if he's going to end up betting $20 on average, maybe).
Any way you carve it up, there is some risk of going broke. However, I couldn't tell you the exact math myself. And, even if I could, I couldn't unless you have watched this guy play enough to have an accurate assessment of your edge against him when you're the dealer.
later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
We haven't had a top ten list in quite some time, but since spring training starts next week and we had the HOF post below, I thought I'd kick put one together.
Top Ten Worst Free Agent Signings
10 & 9. Phillies bullpen, Rheal Cormier and Jose Mesa, 3 years and $25 million total. Senor smoke sucks. Rheal Cormier is average. They would have done better to spend the money on one good player.
8. Mets new starting staff, Kevin Appier, Steve Traschel and Rick Reed, 3-4 years at $22 million per year total. This crew is the KJo of starting pitchers and the Mutts are playing them in a reraised pot.
7. Darren Dreifort, LA Dodgers, 5 years and $55 million. Decent potential but this guy has pitched in one of the best pitcher's parks in baseball and put up only average stats. AJo at best.
6. Denny Naegle, Colorado Rockies, 5 years $51 million. Lets see, how about if we take a flyball pitcher with questionable mental toughness and put him in COORS FIELD?
5. Alex Rodriquez, Texas Rangers, 10 years and $252 million+. AROD is great, but this Hicks guy paid $8 million per year more than the 2nd highest offer. I thought he was a savvy investor. And the Stranger still have no pitching. This move was like hanging a Monet in your outhouse just because you can.
4.3.2. Baltimore Orioles rebuilding, David Segui 4 and $28 mil, Pat Hentgen 2x $9.6 million and Mike Bordick 2x$9.5 million. I thought these guys were rebuilding when they dumped the overpaid veterans last year. Now they spent all that money they saved on even worse, even higher paid veterans. Peter Angelos thy name is stupid.
1. Jefferey Hammonds, Brewers, 3 years and $21.75 million. I especially love it when small market teams like the Brewers complain about the Yankees ruining the game and then go out and over pay for overrated, injury-prone, over-the-hill mediocrities like this. Are they unaware that he played in Coors field? Look at his road splits; he is a worse than average offensive player.
Honorable mention- Ellis Burks (Indians), Rico Brogna (Braves) and anyone even considering Rickey Henderson.
there's only one that really stands out. Oakland signs Johnny Damon and gets rid of Kevin Appier. Billy Beane is a baseball genius.
That was a good move, but it was really a trade. I would do a separate best FA signings, but the list is too short. Here are the ones off the top of my head that I like (or find least objectionable):
1. Manny Ramirez, Red Sox- It was llot of dough on the surface, but since Manny and his agent failed to do the math to get the present value of deferred money, he is actually being paid less than $15 million per. Considering what other average players are getting, that is not bad for the best offensive force in the league. And since the Red Sox will have to pay Nomar and Pedro market rates in a couple of years, they my as well go for it now as it might be their last chance with that "core" of 2 magnificent players.
2. Mike Mussina- Yanks could have probably used a big bat instead, but Moose looks like bargain in hindsight for $15 million when you consider that Naegle, Appier, and Dreifort are getting $11-$12 million. The extra $3 million is money well spent, especially when it comes to the post season. Mussina is one of the best 5 starting pitchers in the game (Pedro, Unit, and Kevin Brown are they only ones that jump out ahead of him).
3. Carlos Delgado extension. The guy is a force and could get better.
4. Jeff Nelson, Mariners. Had one of the best opponent's batting average and on-base against in the league, is a workhorse, and is motivate to beat the Yankees.
5. Tom Gordon, Cubs. Word has it that he looks fully recovered and has the big hook back. A lot of upside and the only downside is a money, whcih the Cubs have plenty of. They should now move that malcontent Sosa as soon as possible. Maybe the Mutts will get desparate in mid-season and give up Alex Escobar and Pat Strange.
agree with your list.
were you serious when you said that Manny's agent didn't calculate the present value of his contract with the Red Sox? isn't that grounds for a lawsuit or something? not that Manny needs the money but this is finance 101 type material.
Posted a message to you yesterday, but didn't see it. Anyway, I was not at all offended by your remark re. poolplayers. Most of them spend so much time on pool that they don't have time to learn other games. I'll be in Vegas the 25th of this month. Hope to see you and other 2+2ers! Dino.
I saw your message and gave a response. Anyway,give me a call when you get into town. I am lookng forward to meeting you and am sure we will be able to get together at least once for cards and a pizza.
With all the sports topics on here recently, I am reminded of a question I have always wanted to ask most Americans (I'm Canadian for anyone who cares). Since there are many Americans on this site I thought I would post my question here.
Why is it that whenever a team wins a chmpionship, like the NBA Championship or Super Bowl or World Series, the players always say how great it is to be "world" champions. Why do they say this? They have just won a league championship amongst 25 or 26 teams yet they are all of a sudden "world" champions.
Most non-Americans will say the reason is simple ignorance and arrogance. I don't know, I was hoping some of the posters here could enlighten me.
marketing, marketing, marketing.
also, with the exception of hockey, if you win the league championship in the other 3 major sports the team is the world champion for all practical purposes.
I don't think the MLS league champion calls itself "world Champion" does it?
These leagues (NFL, MLB, NBA especially) are composed of all the best players from all over the world.
Therefore, the best team in the league actually has some legitimacy claiming to be the world champions, even if the league is american owned and part of an american league, since the best players from all over the world are competing in that league.
I think it is a misunderstanding of the "World" Series.
Most people think that the title of the MLB championship implies the World Championship. It doesn't. The series was originally sponsored by the New York World newspaper. Since The World Sponsored it, it was called the "World" Series and the name has outlasted The World's sponsorship. Since the top baseball team gets to be called World Series Champions, every other sport hear's "World Champions" and figures why not call their champion that too?
That said, it is pretty easy to argue that winner of the American sports championships are the best teams in the world since no one else really plays those games or if they do, they lose their best players to the American leagues inthose sports.
Paul Talbot, World Super Power Speed Ball Champion (don't ask me how to play, if anyone else learns I might not be world champion anymore).
Because no other team in the world has a chance to beat the winner of the championships you mention.
Hey, are you Mike's son?
No, no relation... and I'm sticking to that. No seriously, not related.
I agree with what you say but the Stanley Cup winner never calls themselves "world champions" and no other team could beat them.
That's probably true now but a few years ago, the RED ARMY could have given 'em a run for their money.
In games like our big 3 BasketBall, BaseBall and FootBall who is going to beat our top pro team - heck you can hardly find these games out side of North America - now if the winner of the American Soccer league (or what ever they call themselves) starts calling themselves "World Champ" you would have a very valid point.
Hope this helpes.
The winner of the NBA playoff finals may be designated as "World Champion" by the league (Does the NBA really do this?) but it's nothing more than hype.
America is the land of ego's, we do everything the best, just ask us.
SPM,... just lurking with the best...
Chairman, I failed at an attempt to get your email address so Iam sending you this post. I am in San Hose, California ready to leave back to Chicago. I was here since last week. My flight leaves 9:45pm Chicago time. I was here to get a security clearance and to make my living arrangements. I am starting my life all over again with new career(government intelligence program)and a brand new geographical living arrangements. Nothing is finalized yet but I'll know for sure on Monday, Feb. 12,01. Enough of my stuff, I'll fill you in with details later. I'll have some time on Teusday or Thursday. How's your time on these days? We can do Lunch or whatever and discuss B.S.(Bible study) just kidding. You can show me how you pray to the poker GOD for the blessings of Drawing power. I could use that in my poker resume'. Now, I am not going to hype you up anymore and many people won't able to tell the difference on the table but you are one of those few who are gifted enough to push shitty cards and get away with it. I still remember your 63 off suit versus my 42off suit when flop,turn,and river gave us nothing but we had to force each other to play our hands. Even though I couldn't believe how you could have called the raise on the turn or the river, on top of that give me a another raise on the the river, and reraise my another raise. I put you on the move but couldn't risk to call with 42 off suite. Brother, I'm crazy but not stupid. I must command you for the unthinkable bold move because if I was stupid I would have just called to see you muck your hand faster than me with your 63 offsuite.(to bad I couldn't put you on 63offsuite because you were the original raiser) Once again, Poker God is with you. That's where you stand with me. I always believed anyone can play a made hand given any limit. However, to play a hand away from the obvious favor is another thing. What I mean by that is. In order to be really good or consider one to be decent is to consistantly out play your given opponents. Ofcourse, this much more effective in the higher limit but it can be practiced in the lower limit with out hurting the bankroll. Most of the time I know where I am at and clearly identify if I could take this pot down (chance or not) but many occassions I have escaped the trap by using the rest of the players in the round to react to the entire situation. It had nothing to do with the flop,turn,or the river. Frequently, I'll get called down but in the long run you have created a machine full of callers to your name. I don't know about you but that's a good thing for me. Chairman, I'll see you soon. There are several things I want to tell you but this post is not the place to do it. Leave a post or Email address and I will respond promptly. Have a good day at work! P.S. Give my regards to SPM, Larry, Midnight M, Tony Ha. If you see them before me. Tell them that Action will be back by next week or so.
I envy you being able to play everyday at Garden City and Bay 101. I played there once and I know you will feast. Just do not try to get someone to lay down a hand.
Frank, I must say brothter, I always think of you and I always wished you the best of health and life. By the way I have passed the exam and now I'm just waiting for my physical and ready to move on with life. I want you to know that to the extent of knowing people inside the card room you will always remain as a brother and friend. Once again wishing you and your family the best. I am going to stay in Hawwaii, california, Arizona, or Texas for my initial training. Then, request to be transfered overseas hopefully Spain,Italy, or Korea as a Linguist specialist. Frank, I hope to see you next week at the card room before I departure from this action pact place. I am leaving end of Feb. or middle of March.F
Congrats on your new job!! I wish you the best. I definitely want to talk with you and keep in touch. Depending on where you are stationed, whether here or abroad, if I am in that part of the country/world, I will definitely look you up. As you are aware, I tend to travel a bit.
Anyway, my email address is MichaelD8@aol.com. I can meet you at Hollywood on Tuesday, but I will not be able to get to the room until between 11:30pm and midnight. Monday evening, I can get to the room after 10:00pm - if you are available, we can still hit Dombo's - they are open until 12:30pm.
I am also available Sunday anytime after 5:00pm or so. I leave for Vegas on Wednesday 2-14.
Anyway, email me and let me know what works best for you. If you want to call Hollywood on Sunday evening, I will probably be there. If you send me an email address, I will email you my portable number.
Ok thats all for now - gotta get some sleep - got to be at work in the morning at 6:30am.
Just some thoughts...
Michael D. (Soccer/Sucker Mike D)
I think it is neg-ree-ah-noo.
The ooh is prounounced like in boo and the g is hard.
Dan-i-el as in Daniel!
If it is Romanian I would guess Ney-gra-new with the accent on the first syllable.
i was wondering: which is greater: a. the wealth of bill gates or b. the total amount of action doyle brunson has had in his life.? what would be the over/under on doyle brunson's action?
Bill Gates is worth about $60 billion. That is a million dollars, 60,000 times over. Doyle would need action of a million dollars a day for 165 years or action of $10 million per day for 16 years.
How about David Glass the owner of the KC Royals being "texdolly's" backer.
Is it in the best interest of 2+2 posters to have 2+2 censor our posts?
the best interest of 2+2 posters would be served by them not responding to posts in poor taste. it takes a big leap over the bounds of decency to get a post censored anyway.
I for one missed your ideas and analysis. A friendly warning though, everyone is clamoring for you to come out of retirement, get back to work, and write a NL book and expose all your secrets, etc. They also want you to update your HI-Lo book. Don't get me wrong, I'd be first in line if you did, but I say screw-em and enjoy your well earned retirement on your own terms...
...although if you would care to elaborate on some of that NL underbeting the pot Tommy Angelo was describing I (we'd) be all ears.... :o)
That makes a great deal of sense. When we respond to negative posters we empower them. If we choose to ignore them, they have no empowerment. Your message takes the first leap over the bounds of decency.
SPM,...we all look to the Saints for our empowerment, Saint David, Saint Mason, Saint Loomis, and of course Saint Zee...
Note: All references to the Saint's of poker are always with great respect, and admiration for their gifts of knowledge to the poker commuinty.
There are "Terms and Conditions" which posters are supposed to adhere to if they want to post on this site. I believe that certain posts should be deleted which are inflammatory in nature and are absent of any redeeming poker value. For the same reason that I don't want to live in a society that has no rules or processes that govern how people are to treat each other, I would not want to participate in a forum that had no rules on what should be posted. Now if a person cannot live with rules, then they can post somewhere else. There are other sites that are totally unmanaged and allow just anything under the sun to be posted like rgp.
I'll be leaving for Vegas on Tuesday and have been toying with the idea of trying my first 30-60 HE game. My regular game ranges from 10-20 to 20-40 but I have never been in a 30-60. I consider myself a pretty solid player with medium experience and pretty regular success in my sessions. I'm looking for, if there is such a thing, a game which will not be full of "professionals". I think I could still hold my own but I'm looking for some advice from some players in that area or of that limit. What are the main differences in play between my games and 30-60? Were should I go to play while I'm there? What is a respectable buy in for that limit.
I look forward to hearing from you as I have learned alot from this forum and respect your opinions.
Don't move up to 30-60, darlin'. You need more than Ace high to scoop most pots there..
I'm leaving for Vegas on Tuesday and have been toying with the idea of trying my first 30-60 HE game. I usually play 10-20 to 20-40 and have regular success in most of my sessions. I'm interested in hearing from people who play 30-60 HE on a normal basis. Possibly giving some insight on the differences of play in 30-60 from 15-30. Also if someone knows were I should play were the game isn't full of professionals would be appreciated. My experience is limited compared to most of yours as I have been playing HE for only 2 years and would appreciate any help in deciding if this is a good move.
I have been posting for about 3 months and have learned many things from the collective. I hope you all can help me decide the best coarse of action. Thanks in advance.
The only place to play 30-60 in LV is Bellagio. I would recommend you try playing on the weekend and late at night for the softest games. It might be a good idea if you started in the 15-30, and if you win $1000, take that to the 30-60.
You will find that in general the 30-60 is a lot tighter than you are used to, and that you won't get the huge payoffs for your drawing hands that you do in loose 10-20 or 20-40 games. You will have to tighten up your starting hand requirements if you want to win.
The biggest difference is that the better players will eat up a bigger portion of any edge you hold over poorer players. Another difference is that you're more likely to run into one of these better players, since there are more of them.
btw- What does "regular success" mean exactly? It sounds as though you don't really know where you stand in your current games, other than you seem to feel you win. Nothing wrong with this, if you're a recreational player with money. Then why not try a 30-60 game? You might get lucky and win. But if you're serious about winning $$$, you should know a little bit more about yourself.
I have many friends who play and each of them keeps better track than I do regaurding wins, loses, hourly rate, etc.. I have yet to start that but it sounds like I should. I play on average about 20-25 per week and generally win in the range of 600-1000 in that week. Now obviuosley I don't win every week or I wouldn't have to work but I generally do pretty well. What would be my first step to keeping better track. What specifics should I be logging.
Knowing where you rate in a game and more importantly, what your standard deviation is, are vital facts for the serious winning player.
What brought me to comment was your initial statement that 'I generaly win'. This sounds dangerous to me. Your more recent comment, 'I generally win in the range of $600-$1000 a week playing 20-25 hours', followed by 'obviously I don't win every week' is even more dangerous. Why?
Because generally winning $600-$1000 in 20 hours of 10-20 play, suggests you are simply running good. In other words, if you made $1000 last week playing 20 hours of 10-20, you got lucky. Now the question is, how lucky? You won't know until you start keeping records. The converse is also true when losing.
Start by keeping track of your hours played at a given limit. This will give you an hourly rate. Understand that this hourly rate won't mean much until you've logged thousands of hours at the table. For this reason, you must also know your standard deviation. Standard deviation basically measures the amount of luck (both good and bad) you can expect to be within your results. There are many sources for this calculation. Mason Malmuth's bood "Gambling Theory and Other Topics", is a good place to start. Good luck in Vegas!
Thanks Duck. I'll order the book now. As you can probably tell I'm more of a recreational player. I do however like to think I'm a pretty good player too, but I can understand what you mean. Thanks for your help.
Bob Ciaffone's book "Improve Your Poker" has a very nice essay related to this. He is talking about moving into the middle limits, but his discussion really applies to moving up any limits.
His main advice is playing a bit tighter than normal and avoiding those marginal plays where your edge is very small. You do this to avoid big swings. You don't want the big swing plays because you are just taking a shot, you are not there for the long term. If you played this way for long enough your opponents would catch on and run over you but for playing just a session or two it works fine.
I would recommend reading it if you can find a copy of the book. I would also advise owning the book because it is very good. I believe it is one of the few non-2+2 books that the 2+2 authors actually recommend. Along with Roy Cooke's book I think it is the most valuable addition to a new library after Theory of Poker and the "Advanced Player" book for the game you concentrate on.
Regards and good luck,
Thanks Paul I'll try that book also. Do you have experience at the limit I'm talking about? If so, what is a comfortable buy in for my first time as to not seem like a "Rook"? :)
Patience, Power, Position...
SPM,...I think it will get you started in Vegas...
How much better is the 15-30 game on the weekends then it is on the weekdays? Thanks.
Generally quite a bit better, especially if you play late at night.
Night and Day!
The reason i'm asking is that the hotel room rates are twice as much on the weekends; so, i'm trying to figure out if it's worth it. Say i have the choice between paying $75 a night to play Mon. through Thu. or $150 a night to play Fri. through Sun. If i plan on playing 8 hours a day, i'd have to make almost $10/hr more in a weekned game then in a weekday one to make it worth it. Does that sound realistic?
Stay at the O'rleans and faggetaboutit!
VG, You're paying 75 a night during the week and 150 weekends to stay at Bellagio? How, pray tell? You must play house games, i.e. blackjack or slots, right?
No. Those rates are close to what Barbary Coast and Monte Carlo are offering though. Additionally Flamingo and Bally's have similar rates. All are walking distance from Bellagio. There's really no reason to stay at the Bellagio itself unless you want the luxury.
Even with these rates though, it seams like it's better financyally to play on weekdays despite the worse games.
If you're going to come to LV often enough to really worry about the change in your EV over $75 extra for the room, then you should be coming often enough to justify renting a cheap apartment full-time. I bet you could find something for $600 that isn't unsafe or too dirty. If you're not coming to town often enough to justify that, it probably just isn't worth worrying about.
Later, Greg Raymer (Fossilman)
It's not that I can't afford it. It is just personally offensive to me to be asked to pay 200 bucks for a room at Bellagio. My friends stayed at Mandalay Bay for 79 bucks. I don't want to reinforce their decision to charge poker players such ridiculous rates. I may even start playing other rooms as a rule.
The cowboy road his horse into the Valley of Patience (VoP), it was night and the sky was lite only my a half moon and the stars in the sky. He had been this way before but never in the dead of dark. He was on a cowboy quest, a secret cowboy quest. As he and his horse road by the VoP grave yard, he remembered some of the old Rocks he had seen in gun fights at the, OK Hold'em Corral. The two fastest guns in the old west Doc & Doc, had a shoot out with the slowest gun in the west, Slow Roll Henderson. It was at the river and when the smoke had cleared both Doc's had been cut down by Slow Roll Henderson. They buried the Doc's together and on the tombstone was written, "Here lies a Paradox."
He remembered that day when the Doc's had been gunned down. He had come to the Valley with a cattle drive, one of the Valley Rocks had won them in a card game. As they drove the cattle into the Valley Stock Yard, a crowd was forming at the OK Hold'em Corral (OKHC). The cowboy moseyed over to the OKHC, where everyone was watching the Doc's and Slow Roll Henderson play out the drama. He asked a young pilgrim, "what's all the fuss about, young pilgrim." "The Doc's got Slow Roll Henderson, cornered and they are raising him relentlessly." responded the pilgrim. The cowboy had heard about the Doc's they were very famous, the fastest draws in the west. The river card gave Slow Roll Henderson his gut card for the nut straight, and that was the end of the Doc's. The fastest against the slowest, it had happened before but this time it was Paradox.
The cowboy road up to the Valley Hold'em Mission, he read the corner stone, Patience, Power, Position, the Mission had been built by three sacred rocks. His cowboy quest was nearing the end he hoped. The cowboy jumped off his horse and walked into the Mission. The Mission was lit by the candle station, where hold'em players lite a candle, to ward off the evil bad beats that have plagued them like a bad dream. He started to lite one of the candles when a voice spoke, "having trouble with bad beats my son," the cowboy spun around to see the voice, it was the old Missionary, he had been a disciple of the Three Sacred Rocks. "No" said the cowboy, "I'm here for a friend ." "Does your friend have bad beat troubles"asked the old Missionary. "No" responded the cowboy, "he's very sick and he asked me to help him." The old Missionary looked at the cowboy and said, "your here for the SPM aren't you cowboy." The cowboy was amazed how fast the old Missionary could read his mind, "Yes, he is dying form permanent tilt." "Well," said the Missionary, "the candles won't help him, their for bad beats only."
"I've come a long way," said the cowboy, "if these candles won't help him what will." The Missionary thought for a moment and said, "Patience, Power, Position."
SPM,...after the first losing week of the new year, back to square one...
this is such a great forum overall that i cannot believe that mason, david and the crew will continue to slow play aces...seems like $10.00/month or $60.00/year would be reasonable..heck might even attract more top players if there was "exclusivity" or more percieved worth with a price...jmho...gl all..
to learn how to collude and cheat your opponents...
see ongoing discusion in General Theory-Poker
This would encourage me to subscribe, copy and paste everything and send it out to my friends, and have my own discussions, and never post anything myself. If I were a jerk.
Information wants to be free. It's a dumb slogan, but I don't see why they should charge for this.
Yes, wonderful idea. I'd like to pay for Napster downloads too. And I hope Bush raises, and does not lower, my tax rate.
I'll be moving to the Bay Area in the next couple weeks, and was hoping to get a list of the poker rooms in the area (anywhere around San Francisco or San Jose), what games they spread, and the differences/preferences between them..
I play mid-limit hold'em ($5-10 up to $20-40).
Please feel free to post or respond by email to the address above.
You can play anything you want in the Bay Area. you should eventually check out all the card rooms. I think proximity to where you live should be the most important factor in determining where you play as the action is pretty good everywhere you go. For low limits I think Artichoke Joe's is the best, mainly because they have the cheapest food.
list of rooms, san jose - Garden City, Bay101, 6-12, 15-30, 30-60, 20-200 spread limit San Bruno - Artichoke Joe's 6-12, 10-20, 15-30, 2-3-5 no limit Colma - lucky chances, 6-12, 9-18, 20-40, 40-80, big no limit.
Interesting web site where Mr. Wallace interviews High Stakes players, Hit Men, Spys, and Prostitutes.
Is Hellmuth being accurate when he says he lost $500,000 twice in a poker TOURNAMENT. Being a poker player, I know what he means--he bet T500K twice and got beat. The unitiated might think otherwise--that he put $500,000 of his personal net worth on the line and lost. I doubt that was the case. Of course, he would be pretty accurate if the payouts were such that losing those hands cost him $500,000. Still, his initial investment in the game was far less, so his net worth did not change any more than his buy-in plus or minus his payout.
I am all for poker players getting air time, but this seems to overstate what is actually at stake in a big payout poker tournament.
You make a good point here. Phil is always making this type of statement and it bothers me. You and I know what he means, but it is misleading to the layman. I doubt he has ever bet 500k of real money on a single hand.
He did stick all of his chips in with pocket nines against Johhny Chan that time in the WSOP. It was pretty apparent that the winner of that hand would win the whole enchilada. So, given the payout structure bakck then (2nd place had to be worth less than 500k since there wer only 300 entrants and 1st place was a million), I would say that was a 500k hand, assuming they hadn't made a deal.
"Assumming they hadn't made a deal"
But they did make a deal.
..The Taj USPC in '96. When it got down to the final three, Phil had an enormous chip lead, took a beat, went on tilt and blew off all his chips, finishing third. Ken Flaton got 500K for first, Phil got ~100K for 3rd(Surindar Sunar snuck in for 2nd).
Well, in the WSOP, you get the same number of chips as dollars paid for your buyin. So, in a sense, those chips are worth face value. I know that if I lost a pot where I put T500,000 in, I would think of it like losing $500,000.
I agree that the general public isn't going to understand any of this.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
I also wonder if he is accurate when claiming to be the current Europian (high stakes?) poker champion. (Current issue of Card Player).
Nope. Phil won a 7-stud tournament typically considered the premiere event in Europe each year. Unofficially, the winner of this event has been considered the European champion, I believe. I suspect the Poker Million will take over this distinction, however.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
ScottM asked what BG books are needed to learn the game. See my choice below. First two positions and Jellyfish are a must.
Backgammon, Paul Magriel $45
Advanced Backgammon (vol. 1+2), Bill Robertie $80
Backgammon for serious players, Bill Robertie $15
Lee Genud vs. Joe Dwek, Bill Robertie $20
Joe Sylvester vs. Nack Ballard, Kit Woolsey $25
Philip Marmorstein vs. Michael Greiner, Kit Woolsey $25
Mika Lidov vs. Hal Heinrich, Kit Woolsey $25
Inside Backgammon (magazine 1991 till 1998), $40 per year, maybe discount available
Jellyfish Player (software) free download
All items were available at B. Robertie's firm, Gammon Press (781-641-2091, firstname.lastname@example.org)
See also www.gammonvillage.com and http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~sret1/backgammon/main.html
might want to consider snowie instead of jellyfish, jmho...i agree all your books are great...i thought the magriel book was dated and out of print but definitely a classic
The Three Sacred Rocks Patience, Power, & Position can be found in the Poker Mountains, this side of The Valley of Patience, (VoP). Pilgrimages by poker players to the Sacred Rocks is a huge tourist industry for the VoP. But, that's another story. The weeping poker players come to pay their respects and to request guidance from the Three Sacred Rocks. Some come just to see, others ask to see, and few ever do see. Their tears flow with tales of wow and want. Wow is me, the river was a flash flood. I want help, please show me the way. The players' tears gather into pools, that overflow into streams, that merge together becoming the Might River.
The Mighty River winds it's lazy way from the VoP thru Border Town (BT) and finally flowing into Lake New Deal (LND) just this side of Any2card Town (A2CT). Branching off both sides of the river are many channels that lead to the Tilt Swamps, which border both sides of the river in two Towns and a Valley. The SPM was lost somewhere in the Tilt Swamps. He was last seen giving a Cowboy, a secret Cowboy quest. The Cowboy had returned, with a message for the SPM, from the Old Missionary.
The Cowboy came out of the Tilt Swamps at the Central Way Station. "Wipe Them Feet!" Yelled the Way Keeper. "Sir, Yes Sir!" snapped the Cowboy, like a Marine private to his drill instructor. "Can I use your head, SIR?" asked the Cowboy, giving up his past life as a USM, with one slip of the tongue. "In the back and pick up the seat" said the Way Keeper's wife. When the Cowboy returned the Way Keeper was giving a young weeping poker player the WAY to the Sacred Rocks. When he finished he looked at the Cowboy and asked "What can I do for you partner?" "Wellll sir," the Cowboy started slowly, "I've been in them there swamps for the past four days looking for the SPM. I'm real tired, hungry and oh yeah, would you all know where I could find the SPM?"
The Way Keeper and his wife shoot a glance at each other and rolled their eyes. "He's right over there in the corner Cowboy. He's the one taking the fleet enema out, he got a cleansing at Hollywood Casino " they said in unison." The Cowboy gave the SPM the message, and the Way Keeper showed the SPM the WAY to Poker Mountain, and the Three Sacred Rocks.
This is where our story begins. The SPM was a lost poker soul, in the Tilt Swamps bordering the Mighty River. He had not heeded a warning from his poker conscious. It was sometime ago when he was playing in the VoP. He played a rag hand during a ten day winning streak, which ended .00783 seconds before the river card feel. Now with a message from the Old Missionary, the SPM was on a quest, In Search of The Three Sacred Rocks, a vision quest.
Most vision quests, to the Three Sacred Rocks, are a direct cause an effect of the see-saw factor. If the reader will rewind his/her mind to the play ground at school, where you will see the see-saw. Stop that's it, the see-saw, you're up then you're down, a standard deviation from up to down, I think you got it.
SPM,...Part two, The Quest, coming to 2+2 soon, see the New Adventures of, Two Towns and a Valley...
The stories in the first post. Didn't you see the n/t, now get out of here before the 2+2 police find you in here.
thank you SPM, I can rest tonite after that lovely tale...but what of the Borough of Bad Beats ( how do I avoid this hamlet?) Hey T8 ain't that bad a hand ...I'll just see a flop..i won't count this in my overall stats...gl
The Cowboy & the Way Keeper, or Two Towns & A Valley...
The Borough of Bad Beats, I think it's an island not a hamlet, and it's located somewhere on the Mighty River. The Borough is the place all bad beat stories go to rest. The stories are in alfa order by streets. You never want to get marooned on the island of The Borough of Bad Beats. The only living person ever to be stranded and able to talk about it is the Babbling Brooks. He knows about bad beats and the secret of why diamonds are the easiest flush to make.
you are correct of course from now on i only play T8 of d...then i'll never visit the b of bb..
please make your stories shorter as i lose too much of my posting time reading them.
ray zee awaiting the quest.
SPM - qwazy!
Did I miss another word of the day? Qwazy? I spent two hours looking for it in the dictionary, before I realised all words starting with Q are followed by a U.
So I guess U made up another word of the day, please send meaning of the new word, Qwazy.
SPM,...waiting by the computer for your answer...
Qwazy, you know "I'm qwazy, qwzay for feeling so lonely" That's what my 3 year old grand neice calls me. "Qwazy". "SPM, qwazy". Get it?
: -- O
She's three, and she knows you're "qwazy"? I see intelligence runs in the family.
I normally access RGP thru Deja.com - a company that just got bought out by Google. Does anyone know of any other way of accessing RGP without having to go thru Deja.com? Before going thru Deja I used to do it thru Remarq.
What in the heck is going on? I tried to visit deja.poker too and it's all fucked up!!!!!!!!!!!
I have the same problem. I cannot access rgp anymore because it is now something called "Google". When I try going through "Favorite Links" I just get a message that this newsgroup is not available to me. This may have something to do with "Browser" software.
Should old acquaintance...be forgot.....La La La...La La....La...Laaaaaaaaaa
If you have a newsreader, it comes up just like it always did. I didn't know anything had changed until I read this thread.
What is a 'newsreader'?
Where you actually use a client to log on to a news server at your ISP. This is in contrast to using a browser to access the newsgroup through a WWW site such as Deja. Outlook Express can be set up as a news reader, or you can download any of several free readers from a shareware site such as Tucows.
Deja was never actually the newsgroup, just a layer of connectivity that brought the newsgroups to you, organized and set up for browsing with their own hierarchy (and ads). The actual newsgroup content is stored on servers throughout the world.
So RGP is now in hidding and only computer wizzards can find it. Sounds like we'll be getting some new posters on 2+2. The best poker bullent board this side of the Mississippi, or the known world, 2+2.
SPM,...still on a vision quest...
Basement Man Posted above message in error, I'll talk to him about it latter.
SPM,...still on a vision quest...
Go easy on that fiery brown amber liquid 100 proof toxic pleasure (that opens our eyes to machismo that makes us forget our bad beats ) purging thy belly of malice and old age (not to mention a great pain killer at times, but thats another story) but in the end we forget our true identity or our we an illusion.
PS>>no I wont bill SPM, he needs rake break from the valley of monster beats voMb's
It's always been much better accessed with a newsreader anyway. But the Google thing promises to be a positive step. Deja was bought by Google, probably the best search engine on the net, and they're said to be planning to reinstate all the old archived posts which have been unavailable for months now. I think they're going to get it up and running so you can browse NGs just as you did before as well.
But John what buttons do I push to get to rgp through this thing called "Google"? The other problem is that deja organized rgp so that you could see all the messages and the message trees. Does a "newsgroup" do this?
To be honest with you, if I am unable to ever access rgp it will not be a great loss. Most of what is posted on rgp is just babble anyway.
"But John what buttons do I push to get to rgp through this thing called "Google"?"
I've barely looked at it. But right now it looks like you just type rec.gambling.poker into the window by "google search", and it brings up recent threads, but in a format more like you get from their search engine. But this is just a beta version, and I'm sure they'll be adding features, creating more viewable threads, etc. as time goes on.
RGP IS a newsgroup. You've just been reading it through deja. But it's more easily readable through a newsreader. Outlook express has one built in, but it's not a very good one, I don't think. Netscape has a pretty good one (click on "communicator", then "newsgroups"), and Forte Free Agent is a very good one you can download from their website (don't have the url handy, suggest you go to google.com and plug in forte agent and see what you get :)
Does anyone know of a web site that publishes poker insurance charts for hold 'em and omaha?
I don't know if this is a fish story, but I try anyway. I am playing 3-6 HE on this game full of rocks and old timers in a week day afternoon. Your kind of game. I get KK UTG and call. Near the button this elderly gentleman raises. In another kind of game I would reraise, but here, I decided to slow play my KK for fear of this guy folding on me right there. Few players in the hand, I think it was me and onother guy calling his raise. The flop comes with a K x x, I check, and he checks also, we all check. The turn is another x and I check again, thinking the same way: if I bet he folds. He checks, we all check. The river is the 6h, this has nothing to do with the hand, but I remember it because I looked at with attention for a split second and then I finally made a bet; to my surprise, he raises me, the other guy folded, and I reraised. He calls, my three Kings win. He doesn't show his cards and leaves the table, cursing me and the Gods. I got three bets out of him, that I don't think I'd have gotten any other way. The quizzing question is: Is there a fish in this game, and if so, who is he?
The fisherman thru his hocks into the pot with a raise. The SPM countered with a re-raise. The fisherman toyed with the SPM and at the rivers edge, the fisherman reeled in the SPM.
SPM,...not the biggest fish in the pound, but a healthy meal for the fisherman and his family...
I'm not sure, but you might want to peek in the mirror just to be safe.
That's one of the worst played pocket kings hand I've ever heard....
Ed, haven't gotten on the water lately, but I did get to the ISE in San Mateo two weeks ago. a friend was there doing a tying demonstration. He was cranking out #32 dries. That kind of stirred my sould and got me hyped up for the uncoming season.
Hey 2d, pleez, pleez give me some fly fishing help for california. is there any possible way to fish the Sacramento without paying exorbitant guide fees? How low can you go on the Sac? I've heard unsubstantiated rumors that you could actually fish for Rainbow in downtown Sacramento. is this fact or fiction? would you care to share a few leads on nice places to fish in the Sierras? much appreciated, Boris
Boris, Where are you? The sac is a long river. downtown sac has a steelhead/salmon run in the American River. Steelies are in the river now. In june/july, the shad hit the river, and through summer and into fall, stipers are there. your best bet is to check with a flyshop in the area for reports. keine's is great. they'll give you a report right over the phone. You can also go a little ways out of town and hit the sierras. lots of bows up there. also, putah creek in winters is about 45 min from sac.
thanks 2d, I live in Foster City, right next to San Mateo. I pretty much gave up fly fishing when i moved down here from montana. lately I've been hearing reports of freshwater possibilities in cali so thought I should investigate. I asked about the sacramento (city) area because a good friend lives there so I go there pretty often.
Go north, good fly water Redding area. theflyshop.com or 800 669-3479. Its a big mistake to hang up the rod while in Cal. some great opportunities. If I had to live in Cal again I could survive in this area.
the shad and stripper fishing can be real good on the sac. that far down and you can fish from shore.
I just had an interview at Stanford last week and while the job looked great the housing prices shocked me (and I live in West LA) I don't see how I can afford to take the job unless they come up with some BIG bucks.
live on campus. It's cheaper. well, maybe not.
welcome to my world. there are ruminations that maybe rent will come down with the slowing economy. don't count on it. Also, Palo Alto is at the upper end of rental prices. space is cheaper in san mateo, redwood city, foster city, etc... the upside is that there are 3 good cardrooms in the area.
I can hardly see a #18 on the water. I can't imagine tying anything much smaller than a #20.
how do you get a 4x tippet thru a #32 fly. i cant see em that small or want to use them as the small tippets needed break off with any decent fish except in open water.
I think it was a deliberate play on the ambiguous meaning of the word fish. Ray is a big fisherman. Ray plays poker. Bad poker players are called fish. Ray recently went on a road trip where he played poker and probably fished. Get it?
not out of the loop, just out of touch with the past. in past posts some of us talk alot about fly fishing. nothing to do about poker. this forum lets some fools have their day. if you are not a fishing person pass those posts, although some are great. what do you want to talk about Angel?
In California, how long does a couple have to live together before it's legally considered a common law marriage? Also, are prenuptual agreements used by non-married couples in california?
This belongs on the High Stakes forum.
Divorces in Any2card Town are handled over the poker table. The combined assets, are won or lost, winner take all.
SPM,...still on a vision quest...
Is marriage legal in California?
The poor bugger sure picked the wrong forum for legal advise from these our gracious advisers in previous threads. All I can say pal get a real lawyer, hopefully Californian to disspell any doubts and fears how Californian judges give everything to the women, for you, only the car and enough for your next meal. LOL
Afraid the cows are gonna start charging for all that free milk, eh? Just kidding..but I was living with a man for three years before my parents finally flew down to meet him. My father asked him when he was gonna get around to "doing the right thing." My lover responded, "Umm..we hadn't really gotten into that subject, Sir" My father chortled and said, "I see..so you're of the mindset, "Why buy the cow when you are getting the milk free, eh?" I was so outraged that my father would say this that I went pale. After they left, I told my lover that I loved him very much but that he had thirty days to marry me or I would assume that this relationship was a bit one-sided and that we could still date, but that I was moving out. The milk was about to run dry. One week later we flew to vegas and were married, parents in tow. That was 19 years ago and we're still going strong. I asked my dad why he would say that and he responded, "The test drive was over..it was time to assign title." God I miss my dad. :)
Great story, but how long does a couple have to live together before it's considered a common-law marriage?
Make a quick call to your state's local Bar Association. If you don't have enough money to ask an attorney these questions in depth, I wouldn't be all that worried about asset division
The SPM had reached the hills leading to Poker Mountain, as he began to climb the mountain he could see the streams of tears of the weeping poker players who had proceeded him. He believed he had followed the Way Keeper's directions correctly. The higher he climbed the steeper the slopes became. The SPM knew reaching the Three Sacred Rocks (TSR) was not going to be any picnic. The road to poker success is a hard road, a steep road, lined with obstacles, hazards, and bad beats, that some poker players can never over come.
Finally a sign post up ahead, this way to, The Seven Cards of Stud. He had taken the wrong path, he was on the Stud side of the Mountain, he sat down to rest, he was beside himself. "Took the wrong path didn't you?" snapped the Basement Man. "What are you doing here?" asked the SPM. "Your on a Vision Quest, Suburban, it is a mind set rememberer, all that you are and all that you will be, go with you on a Vision Quest." replied the Basement Man. "Well I guess we are all out of shape then, because this climb is wearing me out," gasped the SPM. "Do you think you or one of the others could take over part of the climb," requested the SPM. "Hey," snapped the Basement Man again, "I don't see you answer the phone or taking orders while I'm in the Company Basement, in fact if memory serves me correctly, you are the first one to escape the business to play cards, KEEP CLIMBING SPM. This is your quest, we're here but only on a courtesy quest for you."
The SPM finally worked his way to the Hold'em side of Poker Mountain. He was about three quarters of the way up the mountain, breathing very heavily, all his muscles ached, and he was beginning to enter the first of three stages of his vision quest, stage #1 Vision REM.
A mighty mist seemed to covered the upper quarter of Poker Mountain, the SPM could hardly see the end of his nose, well it was a very large nose, he used it to sniff out bluffs. "Ouch!" Cried the SPM as he bumped into a poker rock, and a voice said softly, "patience." He put his hands out and stretched his arms to full length so he could feel his way up the mountain. He tripped over a pile of rags, left by the weeping poker players, and the voice repeated softly, "patience." He raised himself up from the rags and he slipped and feel down again and the voice said, "patience." He climbed higher and higher an inch at a time, his body cried out for rest but he kept climbing, while the soft voice whispered encouragement, "have patience." The mist cleared without warning and the SPM found himself in the lotus position at the right foot of the Sacred Rock of Patience (SRoP). There was a long moment of silence and the SPM, cried out, "WOW is me, please HELP ME!" The SRoP, looked at the SPM and said softly, "patience." Then the mist return and the SPM entered the second stage of his vision quest, Deep Rem.
SPM,...at the request of Ray Zee, we will pick up the SPM an his quest in the next installment of Two Towns & A Valley, coming soon to other topics, on 2+2...
P.S. Mr Zee, I hope this story line is short enough to give you more time to post, the lurkers await your inspiration.
very good but it needed to be longer.
Zee awaiting more.
Looks like some company is getting set to charge a fee for it. Anyone know?
Everything that is not up is down, so maybe you're right and they are going to charge to post oon RGP. I hope 2+2 doesn't go that way. I like the free therapy sessions I get from posting on this web site 2+2.
SPM,...taking a break from my vision quest, and still waiting for your return to the felt jungle...:-)
I was playing my little heart out lastnight at Harras.
I played some of the best poker of my life and still lost $300 - a mere mortal would have surely lost a lot more - but I had big hands cracked all night. Not rivered but turned AND rivered.
Well SPM it is the f--king game we CHOOSE to play right.
I feel your pain, I am currently on a vision quest atop Poker Mountain. Like you my results are not good for February. However mine are of my own doing, tilt.
I will be playing more at Harrah's soon, I hope I see you there.
SPM,...REM, poker vision quest mode, engage, The spm is no longer here, on vision quest... :-/
Are you sure it's just not the company whose software you use to view RGP that is charging a fee? You probably just need to read it through a different news reader.
All of a sudden this company Google comes up where my Deja - RGP page was - they say have some rights to the info now.
Is there another way to access it.
If Google has acquired the newsgroup archives of deja.com, this can only be good news. Google is unquestionably the finest search engine on the web (at least at the present time), and works hard to provide a service with minimal distractions, quick results, etc.
If you read the press release on their site it becomes clear that there will be some transition pain (no posting for instance), but it seems as if that will be coming back in the future.
Chuck (an unabashed google fan!)
See Derek G's post above.
I just use Netscape. Under Communicator go to newsgroups (or "colabra discussion groups" on some versions) and subscribe to RGP.
You can also access it using Outlook Express.
For all of you that access usenet (RGP) via a web browser check out some of these sites.
*MailandNews.com - http://mailandnews.com Provides web based access to over 30,000 newsgroups, including binaries. Requires a free subscription.
*USENET replayer - http://www.usenet-replayer.com/ Web based tools to communicate via USENET: news resources archive, news server search, post and retrieve Usenet messages. Advertise products. Protect your reputation by canceling forgeries.
*Mailgate - http://www.mailgate.org Access to a small number of newsgroup hierarchies. Hosted in Italy. International emphasis.
*NewsOne.Net - http://newsone.net/ Web access to Usenet, including reading, posting and subscriptions.
*Gigantic Usenet Binaries Archive - http://www.guba.com/ Subscription service. Searchable archives of all graphics content from binary Usenet newsgroups.
*Liquid Information - http://www.liquidinformation.com Newsgroup access and email. Free registration required.
*NoDevice.com - http://nodevice.com Selection of newsgroups related to Linux and programming. Search, browse and post. Also tutorials, docs, howtos, FAQs.
*WebUseNet.com - http://www.webusenet.com Web based access to Usenet newsgroups. Download or upload files from the UseNet including MP3s, MPEG, JPEG/GIF, EXE. Subscription service.
*NewsReader.Com - http://www.newsreader.com/ Subscription service for web access to Usenet newsgroups. Free demo available. Service includes access to binary and adult groups.
*Nail News - http://www.nailnews.com Providing web access to the picture newsgroups. Thumbnails for each article that contains and image.
*Newsgate Web Server - http://www.newsgate.co.uk Mailgate is a gateway service that allows to read messages of the UK.* newsgroups hierarchy within a web browser.
*EasyUsenet - http://www.easyusenet.com/ Web based Usenet newsgroups with support for binary decoding, posting, and emailing articles.
*InterBulletin - Free Web Newsreader for Usenet Newsgroups - http://news.InterBulletin.com/ Access to Usenet newsgroups through your web browser. Read and post articles. Small list of available newsgroups, but site administrators will accept requests for newsgroups to be added.
*UseNet Replayer - http://www.usenet-replayer.com./archive.html Access and search for Usenet articles and binary files. Post and retrieve replies.
*2Jacks.com - http://www.2jacks.com A Usenet binaries archive. Web based access to hundreds of newsgroups. Thumbnails are provided for each image.
Derek G.=++ "Thanks" for your detailed info, almost like going through the yellow pages
I'd really like to read what D & M have said regarding how they treat a player who is on a hot streak during a session. Since they place so much emphasis on math, standard dev. and such, it would strike me as ironic if / when they encounter someone who is on a tear and then adjust (irrationally?) to this fact. Assuming of course the possibility of cheating is not present.
David once said he posted something along these lines somewhere (RGP?). Does anyone know where I can find it? Is there an essay here on the subject of - not 'luck' but the specific case of an opponent who is 'hot'. Do you avoid him or tough it out, waiting for the cards to catch up so you can take his chips?
Midwinter weekend getaway to the desert. Flew out of Calgary Friday afternoon after some morning business meetings, getting into Laughlin about 5:00 p.m. Accompanied by my "Student", who was happy to get away from his wife for the weekend, I think. Other than his smoking, good to have some company along.
Staying at Harrah's, but no poker room there, so checked out the Colorado Belle. Evening tournament just getting started, and although the room was full, didn't look like we would get into a live game for at least an hour, so off to the Flamingo. Half-hour wait, and then sit into a 1-4-8-8 game. $1 and $2 blinds. Did not voluntarily put money into a pot for FOUR complete rounds of the table. Not because I'm into Rounder's "fold first 50 hands" advice, but cards were just that bad. I am not used to this spread limit betting structure, but as I'm watching the hands play out in the first hour, I come to the realization that in a loose, passive game like this one was, you can loosen your starting hand requirements somewhat from a normal structured style because of the bigger implied odds. And stealing from the button seemed to be easy, because you often had only $8-10 in a pot, and betting $4 on the button chased away a lot of limpers.
Anyway, managed to book a $60 win after 4 hours. Long travel day, and went back to the room to rest up for....
Day 2. Saturday, off to Vegas! Stopped in at Gambler's Book Store to look around. Picked up Lee Jones' LL book to add to the library, after reading a lot of positive reviews on these pages recently. Haven't had a chance to get into it yet, but looks like the middle sections have some good material.
Get to the Mirage about noon. I had expected to run into Jim Brier, but not until later in the afternoon. Room was packed, with long lists on all games. I'm pretty pumped just with the atmosphere, and want to stay very focused. Sat into a 6-12 HE game, while Student took a seat at 3-6. Game was very good, with 3 or 4 very weak players shooting in the chips and re-buying several times. Sweet. Overall, I would rate this particular table weaker than the usual 3-6 game at home. One thing that did surprise me was that one of the Shift Supervisors (I think her name was Pam) was sitting in our game while on duty. She was often away from the table doing stuff, and we hardly ever had a full table. Is this normal? Pam said they were trying to get close to the customers to get their thoughts and feedback, but I'm not sure if she was serious or not. I told her we would feel a lot better about the room if she burned up the $300 she had in front of her.
Played well, made a few hands, and booked a $300 win in a 4-hour sit. Down from the $600 I took home last year in 6-12 at the Mirage, but a decent afternoon. Student had a rough time, losing $75, and we walked down to the Bellagio for supper. I had also arranged to meet Paul Talbot, but I learned from him this morning by email that he was still in bed after carousing all night Friday. Bad boy, Paul. Drop into the poker room to wangle a buffet line pass if we can. Mason is in a 30-60 game, but we're hungry so off to eat. Guess who's buying after the afternoon results?
Buffet was the usual killer. Elk fillets, prime rib, smoked salmon, pumpkin/chicken Wellington, rack of lamb, and about 9 desserts later, we waddle back to the poker room. Mason's game is breaking, so I say hi for a minute, and then we're back to the Mirage. Jim Brier is now there in a 10-20 game. Interestingly enough, one of the other players in the game is from Edmonton! Said hi to the Edmontonian, gave Jim the scouting report on the guy (like he needs my help), met Jim's friend Mark who also posts here, watched a couple of laps, and then headed back to Laughlin. How'd you two do, Jim? The game looked pretty tight, but maybe that's the norm there for 10-20.
Too early for bed just yet, so we checked out the Belle. Sat down in a 3-6 O/8 kill game. Couple of not bad players, but managed to eke out $130 in 2 hours. Overall, pretty good day at the office.
Sunday, we go down to the Edgewater for the 10:00 a.m. Pineapple $12 freeze-out. I last my usual 20 minutes in this crapshoot, Student hangs on about 20 minutes longer. Over to the Riverside, where the Bad Beat jackpot is over $39K. Room is full of locals all looking to hit the big one. Student plays 2-6 HE; I sit down in 2-6 O/8. I turned 50 2 weeks ago, and I'm the youngest guy at my table by at least 10 years. I check out Student's table, and even though my buddy is 69, he's the youngest guy at his table, too! Talk about your TOM game. I grind, and I emphasize the word grind, out $50 in 4 hours, but the game wasn't very friendly, or very good. Small pots, little action, and talk about dirty looks when you raised before the flop. Sheesh.
Went for supper, and then stopped in at the Belle again. We both end up in the same $2-5 HE(with a kill) game, which was very tight. One $2 blind, but at times the pots got good when the kill was on. I lose my undefeated Nevada record and take a $90 hit. Student booked wins at both sessions on Sunday, so he quit sulking at least.
Laughlin is OK for the retired, spend the winter, low cost, low-limit crowd, but I sure wouldn't want to play in those games day in and day out. The LL action here at home is 'way better. Vegas on the weekend is great. Lots of people around, good atmosphere. I suppose that would get old if I lived there, but I would hope not. Flew home yesterday, off the plane to -9 F. temperatures. Welcome back,sucker.
It is common practice for Mirage poker room employees to play while at work.I play 6-12 there regularly and Pam along with a few dealers are regulars.Recently a hot head tourist got a bad beat put on him by Pam,when he found out she worked there he went off until she finally left.I don't quite understand the logic behind this policy,the room is doing well,they don't need the bodies.What they could use is a 3rd man walking policy.
For sure she wasn't just propping up the game. The room was packed and there were long lists for all games. I found it very unusual to say the least that an employee would take up a seat at the expense of a visitor. And she played hard, to be sure. I could see where a tourist would get upset at having a bad beat laid on him by her.
I did okay Saturday winning about $500. The $10-$20 is a tight game but the players play in a very predictable manner and their style is without guile. Your friend from Edmonton is a good player but I don't think he did very well. He also created a bit of a raucous by asking to see folded hands. In one instance, we almost had to call the floor to get a ruling because he claimed that a player had flashed her cards before mucking her hand at the river and he therefore felt he was entitled to see them.
Welcome back Dunc. Hope you heard on the radio this morning that its forecasted to be minus 54 Celsius with the wind chill tonight.
Who was the player from Edmonton, maybe its someone I know?
"minus 54 Celsius with the wind chill tonight"
Being from Winnipeg, I sure miss the cold weather.
"I had also arranged to meet Paul Talbot, but I learned from him this morning by email that he was still in bed after carousing all night Friday. Bad boy, Paul."
I'm beginning to think that Las Vegas is not the best place to meet up with my college friends. Certainly not if I want to play poker.
I did get in a pretty successful $15-$30 session on Friday though that paid for the trip. I was at a pretty weak table where people wouldn't play any two cards but would play lots of cards that can make second best hands (LOTS of QT, QJ, KT, KJ from any position). People have spoken before about the 15-30 there. I've only played in it a couple of times (my last two visits) but both times I found myself in really good games. The best way I can describe it is "loose-predictable."
Glad your trip was a success Dunc,
Considering going out for the WSOP with some friends, have never been to Vegas during it. Was wondering, if you want to play a lot in addition to watching a lot is this a good or bad time to go? Are the lists just hours long becasue there are so many folks in town who want to play or are there more games spread as a result?
I think it is a good time to go, particularly if you like to play satellites. I am not sure about the waiting list at Binions for the limit games, but I was bale to get a seat at the pot limit games without much of a wait at all. It helps if you are flexible regarding limits.
thanks for that, what about the lists at the Mirage and Bellagio, do they grow--worse than they frequently are? I am pretty flexible about limits, within reason of course.
sorry no trout fishing on this trip as i stayed along the coast mostly. i did make a point to go to every pier along my route from lincon city or. to san francisco ca. i always do this and mostly see very few things being dragged in. this trip in cal. i was amazed that so many people were catching decent sized crabs(please no sexual comments). maybe there is some hope for the worlds wildlife. when i was a kid i would go to toms river n.j. and catch big(6inch) blue crabs. some times i would really bring home 2 bushel baskets full. those days are of course long expired because of people uninformed like i was. i met our Boris at lucky chances casino and it turns out his uncle is a friend of mine. i hope Boris gets into cal. fishing as its surprisingly good.
It's nice to see that your paying attention to the Decapods. Most people only pay attention to them when their on their plate!!! There's a few "Decorator Crabs" on this forum they hide themselves in debris of different names!!!
Everything is getting better in the oceans in spite of ourselves Zee. Even though you hear mostly the bad that is going on, there really is quite a bit of good that goes unnoticed. It's the 10% rule!!! Glad to see your keeping your eyes on the Decapods!!!!!!!
"Everything is getting better in the oceans in spite of ourselves Zee"
What a rosie outlook.
I remember those days on Barnaget Bay Ray. Huge crabs and if you didn't have a bushel basket full by noon you were doing something wrong. Ahh, the old days...
I was pleasantly surprised to find lucky chances casino one of the most player friendly poker rooms ive ever played in. all of the floor people were great and accommodated all players with fairness and respect. The time charges were reasonable for the limits and most dealers were as good and efficient as anywhere. The only negative was the lousy food. The food was so marginal that many players bring their own and have the kitchen heat it up for them. This costs the casino untold amounts of money as players leave to eat and do not return. where as in southern cal. places, which have, great food players play right through dinner hour. they also need more parking. The games were very beatable and enjoyable as few of the players had bad manners which is the result of a no tolerance policy which works marvelously.
agree with your assessment of lucky chances. I was thinking that since Tommy Angelo helped write the rule book his next job should be editing the players' menu.
word is its been a dull winter in montana. no snow and nothin to do.
Just bought the 2001 edition of HPFAP and was wondering about its application in the low limit games (3-6, 5-10) I play in at the Trop in AC. Is it better to just play tight in these games without randomizing your play as the book suggests? I love the book and have learned a lot from it so far, just wondering where I should draw the line in a no fold em game. Should I stick to the loose game section? Also, some of the low stakes games can be very tight and mirror the conditions in the book and some of the players are quite observant; should I follow the book's particulars more closely in this situation? Thanks for any responses.
Everything applies from that book to the games you describe, with some adjustment. I think you'll find all multiway hands - even small card hands like 67 suited have more value than you might glean from the advice in the book. Likewise, don't expect too much from AKo in a game with seven callers and nobody gives up with any piece of the flop until the river.
After re-reading I notice your direct question about tight play. In no-foldem it's been my experience that playing tight won't do much for you. If you happen to get very good cards you'll come out ahead but what often happens is you end up watching a lot of loose players drag big pots, while you're plunking down blind after blind. When you do step in, the players see the rock is making one of his rare appearances and just don't play with you, unless they flop strong. And if they flop a pair and an open ended straight draw with 75 they'll make you wish you never saw AK!
There is discussion early in the book about how loose/tight affects the mix of the hands that you play and passive/aggressive affects the number of hands that you play. Read this carefully.
I have to disagree. Playing tight in easy games is actually enough to beat them. You just wont maximize your expectation if you play tight without the adjustments mentioned in the book (especially the loose games section). Many people always seem to forget that all those times the 75o doesn't beat your top pair, you win huge pots. Sure you get drawn out on a lot but in the long run you are still making money. Your swings are just larger.
I don't consider the game Jeff describes as easy. An easy game has players in it who respect a raise, and can fold a hand before the river. The game may be easier than a tough high limit game with veterans but these LL nofoldem are a special kind of tough game.
Again, I make the point that if you are tight to the extreme of playing only the high groups, you are not going to drag huge pots when 75o does not make it because he'll be your only caller.
I play in the 3-6 and 4-8 games in Arizona. There is a lot of action, usually 10 or more of these games going at Casino Arizona on a Friday night.
I very rarely have to randomize my play or mix things up. There are so many players and they don't remember much about me from session to session. Play very straightforwardly.
The higher the pot rake, the tighter you should play. I helped my results when I tightened up a little more than the HPFAP21 "loose games" section recommended, because my rake is higher than in Vegas.
I very rarely have to slow down on raising because everyone is folding to my raises. If and when it does happen (I raise early with AA and everyone folds, and I say, "rats!"), then I adjust by limp-reraising with the top hands from early position and continuing to raise with the other raising hands with which I will be somewhat satisfied if I pick up the blinds or wind up against only one other person.
You said that sometimes the 3-6 game gets tight? I have only one piece of advice: Change Tables! It is my opinion that when a 3-6 or 4-8 game gets really tight (i.e. often 2- or 3-handed on the flop), with a pot rake, then you can't beat the other players enough to beat the rake. If you must stay, while waiting for your table change or waiting for the game to improve, then YES, you have to change gears and play more like the mainstream HPFAP21 advice.
My only change from, say, a 10-20 game would be - again because of the high percentage rake - don't be as aggressive as the book recommends in attacking or defending the blinds and/or playing heads-up. In a 3-6 game in Arizona, if one late player raises and only the BB calls, there should be $13 in the pot - a $1 SB and the 4 small bets. But the $1 jackpot drop and the first $2 rake drop are already gone, leaving only $10 to fight over. If you play a lot of these, you will contribute a lot to the slots.
If you have a small player base, you can't just play tight' Even the "goofs" catch on eventually.
Tight, high rake, low limit games are unplayable,even if its just to maintain your sanity. Change tables or games if you have that option or as in my case call it a night.
Develope your on style based on game conditions using HPFAP as a foundation.
Some time for fun ,look around and see the tight low limit players moving their lips mumbling.
I disagree with much of this. Much of your advantage comes from your play from the flop and beyond. If you choose to play tight as you should in the situation that Ed describes, you should still do very well providing you play your hands through all the way through. If you play too loose on the opening round, good play after that may not be enough to catch up to the goofs.
Most of the games I play in are low limit in one table joints (only games in town)
10-15 regulars with maybe the same number of dropins.
I am considered tight, but most here would gasp.
My observation of low limit under these conditions is you have to losen up some.
With the same lineups daily you have to occasionally be out of line or you just never get any action.
Low limit is boring. While rigours analysis may alleviate this some what your playing against players with no thoughts.
In 20 yrs of low limit I seldom if ever play against those well versed in 2+ 2 literature.I'm sure this explains why I have had only one losing yr(-100).
i still bet you are too loose for those small high rake games. the ante is low and there is no reason to ever enter the pot from up front without a monster. id save my out of line plays mostly for times i would try to rob the pot. if you can hold to your guns you wont ever have a losing year and hardly ever even have a losing day or two in those games.
With all due respect, based on your claim that you can avoid ever having a losing day in LL nofoldem games I think you must have little or no experience playing in them. D & M and others have stated many times that you will experience a wider variation - which means big ups and big downs doesn't it?
The reality is, you can sit at one of these games and lose a rack in 8 minutes playing only the best hands perfectly. Just as you can drag a rack sized pot with 68 in the BB.
Nick, with all due respect we were talking about something you are not. small ante games where the same players frequent the room. the games are not no foldem and with the small ante and very bad passive play its hard to lose.
Sorry Ray. I hadn't noticed the switch.
Just came home from local 2-42-8 game, 1-2 blinds. Worst lose in the 7 yrs I've been in town. There was a fair amt of jamming pre flop. I prefer fast games even though it increases the fluctuations. These type of games may go 1 or 2 nights a week. I probabably lost a rack or so due to poor play caused by frustration. I kept thinking of your recomendations from the earlier post and while I didn't have the discipline heed the advice ,it probably saved me a rack. Thanks.
Boredom is the low limit rec players nightmare.
Before the you begin the story the reader should have read the first three episodes, failure to read them may create confusion on the part of the reader. The three proceeding episodes posted in order are;
1. Sorry for the delay, I've been sick, very sick. 2. The Cowboy & the Way Keeper, or Two Towns and A Valley 3. The Quest of The SPM, or Two Towns & A Valley
Now your ready for episode 4, A Quest in Progress, near Two Towns & A Valley.
In our last episode the SPM was in the lotus position at the right foot of the Sacred Rock Patience. He was on a vision quest, and had just moved into Deep Rem the second stage of his vision quest.
In Deep REM the sky was clear and beautiful as the SPM slipped into a deeper REM, and in a flash he was in a card storm. Cards were everywhere, J2, 96, Q7, K4, A7, Q10, 83, 92, 32, 42, J6, 10 4, 95, K7, rags, the air was filled with rags, rags, rags, not a pair among them, the SPM began bating down the rag hands like the master of the fold. An open hand slap to the back of A7 and the two cards feel into the muck. The SPM jumped into the air and kicked 96 into the center of the great muck. As he landed he spun around an kicked K4 face up into the muck. If you could have been there to see it, the SPM was grace in motion under an attach called the rag barrage. His posture was relaxed and confident, as he mucked every rag hand in the storm. And when the last hand was mucked the SPM, eyes opened and he was standing at the right foot of a great rock structure, the sign said the Sacred Rock of Patience, please move onto the Sacred Rock of Power, he was in the final stage of the vision quest.
The SPM didn't move. "What was that all about," he shouted out loud. From behind the great rock structure the Old Missionary walked up to the SPM, and he said, "you have a question my son. I sure do said the SPM, I thought I was on a vision quest, and I thought I would get some answers, but now I'm even more confussed. The Old Missionary, looked at the SPM smiled and said, sit my son and I'll help you understand your vision.
The SPM sat like a trained puppy dog waiting for a treat. "What did you do on your vision quest," the Old Missionary (OM) asked. "What vision quest" asked the SPM, all I did was climb this steep rugged mountain and almost got an insulin reaction from the toughest climb of my life, I almost didn't make it, even Basement Man would not help me." "Yes" said the OM, "that is the first rule of engagement from the Rock of Patience, "climb a mountain" asked the SPM with a question marked face. "No" said the OM.
Before you go to the casino to play cards you must have the patience, to have your life in order first. Never go to any card game with troubles left un-resolved in the real world. Get yourself in shape first, have the patience to wait and do what must be done. "Oh!" the SPM said when a lite went off in his head.
"What else happened" asked the OM, "well when the mountain got very misty I couldn't see and I bummed into a rock." Said the SPM. The OM explained, "Never enter a hand blind, when a real rock is in the hand, have the patience to wait for a very powerful hand to do battle with the rock." "Okay," responded the SPM, "then I slipped on some rags and when I tried to raise myself up I slipped and feel back down." The OM said, never play with rags, muck them and have patience. Never try raising with rags, it will only cause you to lose your balance and chips will fall." "I see," said the SPM. "What about the rag storm?" asked the SPM, "what did you do asked the OM, I threw them all in the muck." The OM looked at the SPM and smiled, "Play long and prosper" and the SPM woke up in the Basement and Basement Man (BM) said, "Suburban, can you fill that order." "Sure thing BM, responded the SPM, he had gained some patience and figured it was time to get the company work done before going to the game.
SPM,...the next episode, a visit to the Rock of Power...
SPM - Getting Old!
You sir are a gentleman while I am a rogue. My apology for my snide remarks.
BTW - Did you know that one of the definitions of a rogue is: "a horse inclined to shirk or misbehave". Just thought that was interesting.
the young man as a rite of passage started playing poker and lost his behind. He approached the home town hero: Please sir , tech me poker." "ok" said HTH "but ya gotta follow my plan "
Nice of you to call the SPM, young man, don't I wish. Rite of passage, no! More like Old concepts rediscovered. No, the home town hero can not help, only the word and the way can be rediscovered. He who does not say teach me, is lost and doesn't know it. If "gotta follow my plan" worked, we all would be successful poker players. Knowing and doing to different concepts.
SPM,...better to read than get into my head, it's strange in there...
Geesh. After getting AA cracked 3 times today by hands like T8, I think I might have a couple questions for this OM guy myself.
what you're really working on is yourself....gl
You got it! You get an upper case ATTA BOY!
SPM,...play long and prosper
Close your eyes and repeat the mantra over and over again, Tight & Aggressive, and if your lucky you can meet him atop Poker Mountain.
SPM,...play long and prosper...
Noticed you said you lived in San Mateo. You have an 8 wt? The bay fishing and beach fishing is really close to you and pretty damn good. e-mail me and I'll give you some particulars. also check out these two message boards.
The first is mostly freshwater stuff, but a great bunch of guys (and gals). The second is mostly salt. Both are about northern california fishing. The first is a looser bunch, but once you get past that, you see a lot of great info. The second is more technical, but also a great source of info.
In the search bar type: -re groups:rec.gambling.poker
group not groups
When i check out a message at Google I don't see a "post reply" type of button anywhere to push. Also, can you reply to a particular message? Instead of a message tree, they have message 2 of 16, etc...
I recently was assigned a difficult problem and was wondering if anyone here could help me, since it seems like most of you are math wizards.
I am going to toss a coin and continue to do so until it lands "heads." If it lands heads the first time, I will give you $1. If it lands heads a second time, I will give you $2. If it lands heads a third time, I will give you $4. If it lands heads a fourth time, I will give you $8. The pattern then continues. If you have a utility of wealth, W, function characterized by the square root of W, what is your expected utility or EV from the game.
How much are you willing to pay for this game? What is the certainty equivalent?
You need to use the formula for the series,
a + ar + ar(squared)+ar(cubed)= a/(1-r)
This may seem like a tawdry attempt for someone to do my homework for me.......and it is, but I need help.
Any and all responses will be greatly appreciated.
I'm re-posting this from the small stakes forum for the edification of all.
the biggest hurdle to overcome is a lack of consistent positive reinforcement. you are going to play many many hands "by the book" and get pounded (think of Rocky in the meat locker). you are going to sit for 3,4,5 hours at a time and get dealt T3offsuit or its kissing cousins 100 times in row. once, in desperation, recalling that Doyle Brunson won many thousands of dollars with that hand TWICE, you will actually limp in from the button with T3, miraculously flop a full house, and lose to quad 22's. you may see your straightflush draws come up empty 4 times in a row only to get counterfeited the 5th time or go an entire session of 6-8 hours without catching a flush. you are going to lose with trips to an inside straight draw on the river after you reraised the flop. you may witness, as I did, an old salt raise with 47 offsuit and catch runnerrunner to fill up against trip 7's with an ace kicker. in 5 years, you will be able to fill a entire journal with "bad beat" horror stories. you will develop hemorhoids (spelling?) from sitting in the same damn unorthopedic chair hour after hour after hour. eventually, all your muscles will atrophy from lack of use and, more than once, after dropping half your bankroll in the easiest game in town, you will come home to your scantily-clad, pulchritudinous girlfriend or wife who will spend 25 solid minutes trying to get your crumpled dick activated to no avail.
Spring training began yesterday and we will be playing ball shortly. I will once again be in the Bronx on Opening Day to watch them raise the Championship banner one last time for my beloved Yankees. Here are my predictions for this year, from my head, not my heart.
AL East Champions- Yankees will win a very tight fight with the Red Sox. A key injury to Ramirez, Garciaparra, Everett, Lowe or God (Pedro) will once again break the hearts of Sox fans.
AL West Champions- Oakland As
AL Central Champions- Cleveland
AL Wild Card- Red Sox
Division Series- As vs. Red Sox as the As young studs Zito and Hudson shut down the aging Yankees in the first round and Pedro continues his dominace of the Indians.
AL Champs- As. Seven game series is the Sox doom as their 2-4 starters can't buy a victory against the heavy hitting As.
NL East Champions- Braves Again
NL Central Champion- Cardinals
NL West Champion- Dodgers finally get it together and make a key mid season acquisition.
NL Wild Card- Giants as the Mutts stumble big time with the feeblest outfield in baseball.
NL Division Series- Cards vs. Dodgers
NL Champs- Dodgers make it another freeway series to counter the subway series last year.
World Series Champs- As young turks prevail.
AL MVP- Nomar Garciaparra has a monster year with a new big bat in the line up.
AL Cy Young- Going out on a limb here with Pedro.
AL Rookie of the year- Jose Ortiz, 2nd base As.
NL MVP- Shawn Green, Dodgers improves greatly over last season's disappointing campaign.
NL Cy Young- Kevin Brown as the unit breaks down.
NL Rookie- Corey Patterson, Cubs as they grow tired of the Dominican malcontent and give this 5-tool stud a shot in the middle of the lineup.
Disappointments/Flops- Texas Rangers, Sammy Sosa, Denny Naegle, Mets, Eric Chavez (can't hit the new high strike) White Sox kids take a step back, Jim Edmonds, Randy Johnson, Cal Ripken
Outperform Expectations- Houston Astros, Roger Clemens, Lance Berkman, Rondell White, JD Drew, Pedro Martinez turns it up to 11, Juan Gonzalez if he stays healthy
I'm not a baseball fan but I printed this up to take to a huge baseball/Yankee fan at work. At the end of the season I'll ask him how you did because I certainly won't remember. If you're right he'll be disappointed and I'll have fun giving him the gears as his beloved Yankees lose. I grew up in LA and was a Dodger fan. I attended many games in the 60's but don't follow baseball much since leaving.
I reraised my boat into his 4OAK!!! she stayed till she hit a set to take my aces and tens. all night long the same thing
crying in my beer
The rake, the other players, and not home with you.
SPM,...I feel your pain, play long and prosper
I FEEL THE LOVE
Well, being the true degenerate I am, I find myself back in Vegas this for the second time in three weeks. :)- Well, actually, I am in town on business for the US Soccer Convention being held at the Riveria. What a coincidence, I just happen to love going to Vegas and am glad to be back. Anyway, I figured I would post a trip report to date.
I arrived Wednesday night around midnight - had a great flight on American. They are now my definite favorite ariline. After booking over 50,000 miles a year on United for the past 6 years, it was hard for me to make the switch, but American has treated me well.
Since I missed the hotel booking deadline at the Riveria, the only room in town my travel agent could find was at the New Frontier. I was assured it was renovated and updated. Well, fellow twoplustwoers, lemme tell you, the New Frontier is the absolute most disgusting place I have had the displeasure of being in for the past 15+ years. I was so appalled at everything from check-in to my room. My room was so dirty and disgusting it was almost unbelievable. Even more so considering the price tag. The floor of most casinos was as clean as this room. After showering in a tub with a shower curtain that looked like it was actually two seperate shower curtains sewn together, I found myself looking for a clean undershirt to dry with since none of the towels were clean. Hard to believe they are stil open. I understand why they were the only place in town with rooms.
Anyway, went to Bellagio Wednesday night and played in a fantastic 30-60 game for about 5 hours. I ended up losing a small amount but was stuck big early and into the game for 2500. Pots were being made by a complete maniac - capping it blind when he won the hand before - and another gentleman who supposedly had lost a fortune playing 80-160 earlier in the day. I made some big hands hold up and got almost out and decided to call it a night.
The rest of our staff arrived today and checked in the the NEW Frontier. We had a 30 minute meeting and I was off for some more poker at the Bellagio. I immediately got into a 30-60 game - it was a full game but we were playing 6 handed when I got in because 3 people were walking. I got 78 in big blind, pot was raised and small blind called and I called. Flop came 6810 rainbow. Small blind bet out, I called, raiser called. Turn puts another 8 out there, small blind bets out, I make it two bets, small blind thinks and thinks, and thinks and finally calls. I actually think he wanted to reraise me. River came and A and he checked. I bet and he instantly called. I turned over the 78 for the winner. I think he had a big overpair and decided not to reraise pre-flop. He was seriously considering reraising me on the turn but decided to play it safe. Anyway, I did not play another hand for the next 40 minutes. Finally got a playable hand, QJ of clubs from utg. Normally I muck this hand almost always from this position but I had played only one hand and was afraid that if I did not play something I would get no action on my big hands at all. Flopped missed completely and I mucked.
Within the next 10 minutes, I played four hands. Won a small pot after raiseing AQ from small blind to isolate limper who was playing 80% of the hands. Flopped a Q and got paid the whole way., Two hands later, I followed it up with A8 spades from the cutoff with four players. Flop came 862 rainbow. Big blind checks, middle limpers bets, second middle limper calls, I raise. Small blind mucks, BB reraises, middle limper calls, second middle limper mucks, I call. Turn comes a 3. BB bets, middle limper mucks, I raise, BB calls. River pairs the board with a 3. BB hesitates, then checks. I was not really sure where he was but I had raised the turn with the intention of checking the river unless I hit an A or an 8. I check and he turns over 62 - he had flopped two pair. I got lucky with the 3 on the river to make me a better two pair. Next hand, played poket sixes and mucked on the flop, then pocket sevens and mucked on the flop.
After a while, I went to see Michelle in the Bellagio office. She took care of me and was able to get me a room at Bellagio. The rest of the staff will be here starting tomorrow. Looks like we will be playing some poker to get the rate but believe you me, it is well worth it after staying at the Frontier for a night. She was great to take care of me like that and I really appreciate it. Many I have talked to say the rate here is a bit steep, and it is not cheap, but believe me, after the miserable Frontier experience, I am happy to pay it. My employere will just have to understand that the Frontier was nto acceptable. Putting in the hours will be a bit more challenging than normal due to work but I am sure I will manage. Have already put in enough for 2.5 nights and have only stayed one night. :)-
Went back to the table and played a while longer, booked a nice win, racked up and left. Went and checked out of Frontier and back into Bellagio and the staff and I went out and had a few cold ones. Started at Bellagio and made our way to the Alladin. I was quite surprised, Alladin is pretty cool. Came back to Bellagio, and had another at the Sports book bar. While there, I see "Rook" waving at me. I go over to say hello, he is in a 15-30 game and doing quite well. He is leaving tomorrow - said he had been looking forward to playing a few hands with me. I bet he and eveyone in the room was given the fact that I had had a few beers. Anyway, the list was too long so I decided to call it a night. Probably a good thing.
Well, thats all for now. Gotta get up and work in the morning.
Just some thoughts...
Michael D. (Soccer/Sucker Mike D.)
Leave it to you to work things out so that the rest of your business associates are now required to play some poker :)
Great trip report!
Mike wrote: "Anyway, I did not play another hand for the next 40 minutes. Finally got a playable hand, QJ of clubs from utg. Normally I muck this hand almost always from this position but I had played only one hand and was afraid that if I did not play something I would get no action on my big hands at all."
Do NOT worry about this. ;-) You'll have to be at the 1K/2K table before it is a concern, and maybe not even there. You will get less action, but the action players will always give it to you, no matter what.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
I'm never able to arrange my business trips so i get to go to vegas an play poker. Some guys just have the midas touch!Good luck. Lar
Thanks for the report. Wish I was there.
SPM,...play long and prosper...
The SPM walked into the Valley of Patience Hall of Fame, he had just completed a vision quest and was going to visit the Rock of Power exhibit. He pasted by other exhibits, the 10 2 Doyle Brunson WSOP display caught his attention, he scratched his head and re-round the vision quest he had just finished. 10 2 sure looks like rags, but no limit was different than limit hold'em. And Brunson was a world class player. Then he saw the A 9 off hand that won Chris Jesus Ferguson the 2000 WSOP, boy they must have a whole new set of rules for no limit. The SPM was sure he didn't want to see any more winning WSOP hands, the confusion could put a mortal player on immediate tilt. The SPM didn't need help going on tilt, he had that move down pat.
He saw the long line at the Rock of Power exhibit, so he decided to walk around and let the line shorten up a little. Just then a tour form Any2card Town (A2CT) had arrived and they had a tour guide. The SPM, was the Mayor of A2CT so he joined the group. The SPM's constituents wanted to shake his hand so the tour stopped long enough for everyone to greet the Mayor of A2CT. Being a celebrity does have its responsibilities.
"Ok everyone lets stay together," said the Tour Guide, "Here we have the exhibit of rag hands that have never won a big pot. "Oh this will be good for my game" said Reckless Randy from Low Limit Blvd.. "Knowing which hands not to play is the knowledge I'm looking for," continued Reckless Randy. The group interred the exhibit and their mouths feel open as they looked around the empty room for the rag hands that have never won a big pot. What they saw was nothing except for a small sign at the far end of the exhibit. They gathered around the sign which said "Any Two Cards Can Win" "I knew it!" yelled Reckless Randy. The Mayor knew in that moment, Reckless Randy would not move from Low Limit Blvd. for sometime.
We will now visit, "The Borough of Bad Beats." said the Tour Guide. "The Borough is an island on the Might River," continued the Tour Guide. "The exhibit was donated by a player from 2+2, the famous, Mr. scalf. He discovered the island, while on a tilt quest. All bad beats come to rest on the The Borough of Bad Beats. You will find them in alfa order by streets." informed the Tour Guide. The group dispersed everyone wanted to see if they could locate their own personal bad beats. The members spent hours looking up bad beats and then each member had to show the SPM (the Mayor) their claim to fame. The Mayor listen to each bad beat story, he would be up for re-election and bad beat stories are like shaking hands and kissing babies for politicians in the real world.
When they exited, The Borough of Bad Beats exhibit, the SPM saw the line at the Rock of Power was now gone. The Mayor addressed his constituents before moving on to the exhibit of the Rock of Power. "I appreciate all of you sharing your bad beat stories with me," the Mayor lied, just like the real politicians. The Valley of Patience Hall of Fame, will help all of you improve your game. I look forward to playing with all of you in the future." Then as the tour moved on the Mayor grabbed Reckless Randy, "I have an opening for precinct captain on Low Limit Blvd. Lets talk about it when you get back to A2CT. The Mayor needed someone who would be living on Low Limit Blvd. for sometime, Reckless Randy fit the bill. They set a date to meet.
The Rock of Power exhibit, began with a mission statement.
The Rock of Power is committed to playing hands given to him by the Rock of Patience with aggressive raises, and no intimidation will defer him from his appointed duty. The Rock of Power will fight to the river unless the Rock of Patience says fold. The Rock of Patience is the final decision maker on all streets.
The exhibit was a collection of raises, check raises and many re-raises.
SPM,...returning to the felt jungle, Saturday, at Harrah's in East Chicago, IN...
Good luck on Saturday SPM. I am gonna have to try this patience thing.
Just some thoughts...
Michael D. (Soccer/Sucker Mike D.)
hey i am honoured and humbled to have been included in your text....i tell you really what is wrong with seven deuce...and if it isn't suited you are less likely to lose to ace rag suited that all but the board of governors of the rock of patience in reality play...keep your marvelous text coming and gl in harrahs at east chicago ...hint watch out for the trains...that would be the ultimate bad beat....
at a poker table, last night a woman sits down and about her second hand, she catches runner runner for the (nut)flush. Two other players both flopped str8's, and she took down the huge pot. Well, on the river, when she made her flush, which was the nuts, she bet out, since she was first to act. The next guy raised with his str8, the third guy called, and she just called! She showed her nut flush, and when asked why she didn't reraise, she said, "Well I am new at the table. I don't want to give away how I play," and again reiterated that she was new at the table. I couldn't help but laugh. I've think I have seen it all now.
Well I am new at the table. I don't want to give away how I play,"
She's from Any2card Town, she lives near the Calling Station, in a basement apartment. She didn't realise she had the nuts until someone told her. Their first mistake. Now she may move to I Got The Nuts Ave. where they all learn to raise.
SPM,...becarful what you say in a game...
This one is still my favorite.
I'm in a ram-and-jam 9-18 HE game at the Bike in LA. There is a woman at the table who has one of those tic-tac containers with the HE starting hand tables on it. I forget the name of the book, but this guy from SoCal used to sell this book and system for HE that included this tic-tac memory aid device as something you can have with you at the table for reference. It's kind of like the S&M starting hand charts in a small format. Anyway, I've met the guy who published this system, but the name slips my mind, so let's call it the "X" system.
Anyway, this woman is playing at least 75% of the hands dealt to her, and it's not just because she's on a rush. She is showing down hands like T6s where she called a raise cold in middle position, and Q9o where she raised from UTG. I say to her "I see you've got the X system, but I notice you don't refer to the memory aid very often. In a complete deadpan she replies "Well, yeah, I've pretty much got it memorized."
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
I will be moving to Monterey CA. next month and was wondering if any one knows a poker room near there. Also what limits they play there. Thanks.
easiest way is to check the yellow pages. also try the yellow pages online. there are good games in san jose.
No sorry but if you do find action stay away from Monterey Jack, he's kind of cheezy.
SPM,...play long and prosper...
im taking the liberty of assigning you a task. i and most do not know much about what is played and the limits in your area. please correct the situation or reassign the task to another.
Well, I will keep this one a bit shorter tonight as I am really tired. Actually having to work before playing poker is not fun at all!!!
Anyway, played in a good 30-60 game for about 3 hours late this afternnon and booked a real nice win. Game was good and I did well. Had a meeting and came back and got into a rock tight brutal 30-60 game. After a successful table transfer, I was in a good game. I was playing it straight and not making any moves as the game did not warrant it. Roy Cooke moves from another table into our game a few hours later. Game at this time was really, really good. There were 4 action players and they all had chips. I found the swings to be big but I did not mind. I actually found myself paying off some hands when I was pretty sure I was beat but the pots were so big I had little choice.
In the end, I ended up losing a little. I am still amazed at how good the games are. THe 30-60 game I was in tonight was a great game with a ton of action. The players were agressive but a lot of chips were definitley in play.
Ok gotta get some sleep - gotta work again during the day tomorrow. Thats all for now.
Just some thoughts...
Michael D. (Soccer/Sucker Mike D.)
It was a great game and I lost. Send it to The Borough of Bad Beats, where all bad beat stories go to rest.
We expect more from you! At least tell us that so far you are winning overall.
SPM,...win or don't come back...:-)
i enjoy your posts and value the info...i assume these 30-60 games are at bellagio tx and gl...
Glad to hear everythings goin well-great trip reports so far- enjoying reading them.. Knock em dead!
Pete the Fish
Ill be at Hollywood for a bit on Sunday Night- if i dont run into you see ya Tuesday! :-)
Why is it that people enjoy attacking or provoking individuals associated with building up a forum, when they have done little to help improve a forum. This is not always the case, some individuals have contributed immensely, yet hold something inside them against the individuals in charge of trying to keep order. There have been many different scenarios concerning individuals who go on this tear to search out and destroy. Just thought I'd throw this out there for thought!
Anyone that takes cheap shots at SPM (meaning you) is going to be slapped around this forum and then some and verbal genocide can be toxic at times.
The quest is over! The SPM has rested without Texas Hold'em for five long days. It's the morning of the sixth day and only hours away from the first two cards that will be dealt to the SPM.
The SPM looks at his results for 2001, they're in the positive column. However, the losses in early February must be re-won.
Covering the same ground is the long road back to a healthy bank roll. His mind is focused on tight and aggressive. Let the poker god smile on the SPM, and let all his beats be small and all his wins large. Let Lady Luck sit at his right side and whisper sweet wins in his ear.
Patience, Power & Position! Cross your fingers, details and Ray Zee's homework will be posted sooner or later. Play long and prosper.
SPM,...pacing with anticipation...
hey, i did not realize you went 5 full days without seeing a flop or getting the nuts cracked off on the river ...did you get the violent shakes and drooling or did you go to the local er and get a shot to cool you off?...gl, i think after a rest the cards will run all over you...go for it...gl
Yes, the deck hit me in the head and the rest is history.
SPM,...violent shakes and drooling have stopped...
I'm on the button, the first card is being delt to everyone. When the dealer gets to me, the card bounces face side up. The dealer skips giving me a card, and gives everybody else their second card. When it gets around to me she gives me two cards at once.
Was a mistake made here? Thanks.
Generally when a card is fouled then it is replaced without impacting the rest of the deal. The fouled card is replaced after all the other cards have been dealt as they normally would have. The reason you got two in a row is because you were on the button.
No, it is absolutely wrong, it should have been a misdeal. This is because no player can be dealt two cards straight out of the deck.
I think he was a new floor person and still does not know the rules.First card exposed at the botton is always a misdeal.As what blank said you can't be dealt two cards together in the time.Maybe he made his own rules.Some floor person make their own rules.It's called IT DEPENDS who's and what is the situation.
The first card on the button constitutes a misdeal. The last card can be replaced because you are NOT receiving two consecutive cards that will be played. Omaha would be a misdeal if any of the first three cards were exposed.
Well I just finished typing up an extremely long trip report only to have it lost because I got disconnected just as I was going to post it. So now, I am only doing the short version as I am pretty tired.
I played at Bellagio in the 30-60 game. Mason was in the game. At one point, as I was going to dinner, I saw him away from the table and introduced myself. As it turns out, he was having a conversation with David Sklansky and he introduced me. During the course of the game, I managed to take my KK and JJ against Mason and both times ran head first into AA. Ahh to be a tourist in Vegas!!!! Well they don't call me Sucker Mike for nuthin!
Well, anyway, I got stuck in the game pretty good but after 9.5 hours managed to dig out and book a small winner. Game was short-handed for a decent while and I did ok. At one point, for only 2 hands, we were 3 handed. As is my custom 3 handed, I straddled on the button. I had A9 and won the pot on the turn after flopping two pair.
Had a good time this evening, a lady named Brenda made the table really enjoyable. Towards about midnight or so, the game became really good. I won a couple of big pots, one really big one in particular, and ended up booking a small win. I was quite please with this after being stuck pretty good in the game.
All in all, it was a good trip from both a work and Poker perspective. Mason, I enjoyed meeting you and thanks for taking the time to talk as well as introduce me to David.
Thats all for now. I am flying back to Chicago and have just enough time to do laundry and pack as I am heading to sunny Aruba and Carnivale for 9 days with the Hollywood Fish and Just Another Egg. I am not planning on dragging the laptop with me so the trip report will have to wait until I return. Suffice it to say, I am confident we will find our way to the Holiday Inn and the 15-30 holdem game at some point.
Just some thoughts...
Michael D. (Soccer/Sucker Mike D.)
Oh Man, first you get paid to go to Vegas, now your off to Aruba. Mister, you are living right!
The best way to get in the 15-30 game is to get there before it starts (usually around 8:00 pm) and write your name on a napkin and place it on the table at the seat you want. If you arrive after the game has started it could be a long wait, as although there is a list to sign, at times it seems the order of your name doesn't always get the seat, etc. and while most of the dealers speak good enough english it seems the floor or brush does not. At times I'm not sure the list means the same to them as it does to the poker rooms in the states.
When I was there they had a tournament (300 buy-in) that paid four places and when the fifth person left busted out, the tourny was over and they paid out the four spots according to the chips on the table.
Unless there is a new development I'm unaware of they have the only live poker on the island and it's a good mix of south americans, europeans, north americans, and a couple locals. Mostly tourists on vacation and they police the games themselves as the dealers do make alot of mistakes at times. I guess I am saying just keep and open mind and adjust to their game and you will have a blast.
Remember you can bet 30 on the flop, or just bet 15, and if raised 15, can re-raise 15 or 30. But once someone makes it 30,(betting or raising) its 30 the rest of the way as you cannot raise a 30 bet 15.
Before the flop all bets and raises are 15. And after the turn and river all bets and raises are 30.
So there are some strategy adjustments to think about
Well I know you and your fellow 2+2er's are going to have a blast there, can't wait for trip report.
its been awhile since i was there and i played at the holiday. the games were good but the rake was extremely high. also when no one was looking they took 25 dollar chips out of the pot. i call that stealing. it did seem that the house had little control over the dealers as they couldnt be fired easily by the rules of aruba. i quit playing during the rest of my stay because the situation at that time was unplayable, but i was there to windsurf so it didnt matter.
well written gl
SPM..rip..I understand you were rushing to get a HE seat before boarding time expired...the thought of waiting 2 hours was so extreme that you felt you could "beat that train like a player with 72 in SB"..however..at least you went out with the last words...Did i hit the flop?..unfortunately the train did not miss...rip...
Faster than a speeding train!
SPM,...able to leap tall odds with a single card...
The first hand dealt the SPM was K4 suited, he mucked the winner. Hand number two, 42 off again the SPM mucked the winning hand. Sorry, I did try to memorize all the hands I mucked but there were just too many. The long hand of the poker god tested the SPM's ability to stay focused, and found him equal to the task. He would not tilt today. It would appear that when one gets a case of the tilt's it takes exactly five days away from the casino poker room and a vision quest to be cured. But like a bad cold the tilt's can return. The SPM will need to stay focused and when the first signs of tilt appear, he will need to go to the Any2card Town medical facility and get help immediately.
They say an apple a day will keep the Doctor away, no one as of yet has come up with a snappy line for keeping the tilt's away. The SPM got the tilt's from playing too many days without a break. January the SMP played 25 out of 31 days, his win rate was about one big bet per hour. Then came February first, tilt Thursday, and the SPM went off like a rocket. He saw the signs so he took three days off and returned to the game. Three days was not enough time, he was on tilt for the next five games with only one small winning session. Then came bed rest and a vision quest. Why does our local celebrity do this to himself.
In the poker books and poker magazines all the experts tell us never play tired, never play with personal problems a foot, never play with scared money, never play rags, never over play your hand, never play intoxicated, never play for revenge, never play when your sick, it sounds like Never Never Land. There are so many things we should never do. Yet some how we find ways that seem reasonable at the moment, to always do what we should never do. It's the never ending dilemma of tilt, and if you don't watch out for it, it will play havoc with your bank roll.
Has the SPM learned the final lesson of how to stay focused and off of tilt? Good question, sorry no good answer. Like most serious recreational hold'em players the knowledge is there, the ability to recognize the correct play is in place, but and there is always the big BUT. The player must do what he knows and not what he feels. Tilt is in the heart of our feelings, getting in touch with ones feelings is dangerous. Stay focused, play long and prosper.
SPM,...glad to be back and on solid ground...
P.S. Here's ½ my homework assigned given to me by Saint Zee. Harrah's East Chicago, IN. Games spread, Stud> 1-5, 2-10, 10-20. Pot Limit on Monday's only $100 buy in, $2 ante and a $5 bring in. Omaha/8> 4-8 with a half kill, 6-12 with a half kill, Saturdays only. 40-80 HOSE, Wed., Fri, Sat, & Sun. 25-50, ½ HE & ½ Omaha/8 Tues. only. Hold'em :-) 4-8 with a ½ kill, 6- 12 with a ½ kill, 10-20 with a ½ kill, and 20-40 with a ½ kill. The Harrah's poker room phone number is 219-378-3558. They still have boarding times they are, 9am, 11am, 1pm, 3pm, and every two hours etc. Look for the second half of the home work assignment at the end of the next post. Thanks to Mike Palm the floor at Harrah's for the information. He is also a very good Omaha/8 player. Save your money and don't play against him.
I will cherish your n/t for the rest of my natural life.
Just remember, when things are bad, you can legitimately state that tha greatest card player of modern times (Zee) actually asked you for poker advice...think about that gl
I will remember for the rest of my life. I was given a simple task. A task that would have taken the average person a moment to accomplish, took me two posts.
SPM,...bending cards a little slower these days...
"They say an apple a day will keep the Doctor away,..."
Does two apples a day keep the paradox away? If so I'm giving up apples! Nice recovery SPM, Cowboy UP! I know this ain't your first rodeo!
Vision quests- very powerful stuff indeed
Do you really want to keep a paradox away? Give up the Doc's and you could get parakeet's. You know to Keiths sitting togeter.
SPM,...becareful what you wish for...
hey you overworked, underpaid poker essayist!
I'm on your side! Please re-read my post, I said I'm giving up apples! I love a good paradox and my reply was of course in reference to your paradoc's and Tombstone post from a week or so ago (which had me ROTFLMAO) before you began your vision quest series.
hillbilly- wishing for more paradoxes, but very carefully, as I might get them
"If so I'm giving up apples"
I missed that part, so now you know about the Keith's. Be on the look out.
SPM,...now recovering from insanity...
According to a Mirage dealer,both properties have increased their rakes.Stud is now 5$ max,Omaha 4$ max,Holdem stays at 3 max,but the percentages on smaller pots increased.Given the virtual Monopoly this company has on quality LV poker,its not suprising.Both rooms are doing big business and as usual the Casinos are looking to grab every dollar they can.
doesn't catch wind of this as inflation worries him alot. Seriously, I hear you and while I'm not a fan of high taxes or rakes I would rather pay an extra buck than see the rooms close entirely and the floorspace go to more slot machines.
This is what happened at a riverboat casino about three hours from me, not long ago.
There is a rumor going around that Ray Zee is a fictional character, with colorful background and exagerated story lines to round out his character.
If you think about it logically how much sense does it make that a Montana hillbilly is one of the world's best poker players. Someone who just happens to have made a fortune playing poker and is now retired.
And that name--Zee? What's up with that? There are no Zee's in the world. You think they could have come up with something original. No thank you. I believe the rumors. Someone is just having a good time pulling everyone's leg, and I guess it's good for a laugh.
You're absolutely right. Ray Zee has always been good for a laugh. Does this mean that I don't have to send him any more royalty checks?
Zee is just a truncated name for one of those long greek names like "Zepokaholicolipakiss".
I think he's real because fossilman said that Ray gave him some money to play keno, and I know who fossilman is because I met him at the Orleans Open.
"I think he's real because fossilman said that Ray gave him some money to play keno, and I know who fossilman is because I met him at the Orleans Open."
...The story I heard is that Ray was SELLING his weekly lucky Keno numbers picks at a reasonable price to selective, "knowledgeable" Keno players. Ray knew Greg had just booked a nice tournament win and didn't want him to try and "double thru" his winnings playing keno "blind", because of course Ray's numbers would give Greg a nice overlay in the game.
That's how I heard it anyways, heh.
fess up hillbilly we all know you are none other than ?????
sorry to disappoint you Ray, and as much as I'd like to say I'm a long lost old friend, the facts is I'm just a late-blooming,(very late) somewhat, (probably) over the hill, up and coming poker phenom. (heh) who knows where to get good info before I make my final push, into bankruptcy.
A construction worker my whole life, unfortunately for my poker career, the 70's were a fog, the 80's found me buying, selling, building and riding harley and antique motorcycles. The 90's and I began buying old houses and fixing them up for rental income.
I really only began playing poker about 5 years ago although recently it's come to my attention that all I do is eat, sleep, dream, think or study about is poker. I know the odds are stacked agin me but I'm sick of pounding nails and I've been thinking.....
Of course, by now you're probably thinking, "Hey, sorry I asked!" so I'll close for now
That's my story and I'm sticking to it
you quit fixing up old houses to play poker and i quit poker to fix up old houses.
no the odds arent stacked against you as you study. thats the key. you make it up the hill.
At the Orleans Open I asked Diane from Green Bay to introduce me to FossilMan. We found him at a table in the limit hold'em tournament. He was not doing well, everyone was sucking out on him, it was awful. I said since you are on such a bad luck streak, why waste all that money on tomorrows tournament when we can hire a couple of strippers and have a party in my hotel room tonight. Then Fossilman said that's a good idea, but what am I going to tell Ray what I did with the money?
"Fossilman, I got a foolproof plan." On the day of the tournament I told Fossil to hide in his room for a couple of hours. I went and looked for a guy that looked like Fossilman that was playing in the tournament and was doing poorly. Anyway, Greg must have sold him a Fossil because he was using it to protect his cards. I jotted down the bad beats he took so Greg could relay this information as his own when it was time to call Ray with the report.
Oh yeah, I took Greg's receipt from the previous tournament and scanned it to make a forgery.
I'm not going to go into the rest of the details. But, this is the truth. I felt like I had to finally confess. Please forgive me Fossilman.
All I know is, Ray didn't give me a single good keno number, not one.
Oh, BTW, I did get a check from him with the name Ray Zee on it, and it did clear my bank. So, if Mason and David made up Ray, they've really gone to a lot of trouble to cover it up.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
I will assume that your question is sincere. Ray Zee is a real person. Before he retired, Ray was a well known high limit player. He played both high limit and big bet poker (pot limit and no limit). He did not play tournaments. His picture is on the poker books he has authored including Seven Card Stud for Advanced Players and High-Low Split Poker (when he was younger). I have never meant Ray Zee. But I am good friends with Bob Ciaffone and Ciaffone thinks that Ray Zee is one of the best poker players in the world. Another friend of mine, Mike James (who was a prominent poker player and bookmaker in Shreveport, Louisiana) is also friends with Ray Zee.
none of this is true. the character zee was created by mason to enhance his book sales and it has worked admirably. its true that fossil man did pay 10,000 dollars for zee's lucky numbers and went broke soon after that. thats why we hear little from him nowadays. mason soon found himself caught in a corner trying to explain away his creation but to no avail. so then it became necessary to invent some new characters to substantiate his people. this jim brier guy is none other than mason himself defending his position. and ofcourse how could someone call themselves mah. its some sort of mason abbreviation. check with his created character paul feeney for more details. and by the way this scarf person is something that suburban poker man invented to shed some light upon his short(long)stories. mason's undoing came to light when john feeney was found out to be none other than vince lepore. sorry but the whole poker world has been taken in by this huge hoax.
for the real answer read fft in p,g,l and you will realize this is discussed on pp.204-207..the real truth..gl
Well the truth has come out. "Ray Zee" is actually a slight mispronuciation of a commonly used poker term. Well, the joke was good while it lasted.
I was just thinking, and this could be a Two Plus Two participant identifier, that whenever one of us has the nuts on the river and someone else bets we could always yell "RAY ZEE."
To make matters worse, some guy is said to be running around SoCal playing under the name Feeney. We concoct this character and everyone believes he's real. (That handsome model used on the back cover of the book helped a lot.) And now we have this guy claiming that HE'S Feeney. It's actually more bizarre than the posts I write under my real name. (Even more strange, this "Feeney" impostor -- if you can be an impostor of someone who doesn't exist -- only loses to REALLY bad players. So if you pretty much can't play, and love to have fun and WIN BIG, I'd suggest finding his games. You're the kind of player who takes his money!)
Be zeel man!! Do you zealy thing zeeman zexist!! Get Zerious zour zonkers!!!
I had met Ray "The Poker Prince" Zee three years ago at WSOP in Binions Horseshoe, just a year before the fearless lady took over that casino. He played high stakes poker in the company of Johnny Chan and others. Since I had previously developed high regard for his poker skills (mostly from reading his books), I introduced myself and thus we met. At that encounter, Ray struck me as very pleasant, unpretentious gentleman, secured in himself and his far-reaching reputation.
Hopefully, you are converted by now.
Viva el Rey!
You are only partly correct. The first time I saw Ray Zee was at the Rio Carnivale tournament several years back where he was playing in a side-game. I barely recognized him, and he looked nothing like the picture on his books. The next time I saw him was at the WSOP and he looked EXACTLY like that picture on his books. Left me to wondering if he has some deal arranged with a hair stylist for times when he comes out of the wilderness or wants to be incognito ....
In addition to offering poker lessons for $400 or $500+ per hour, how about offering some of us paupers the option of E-Mailing you a question at let's say...$150.oo a pop.
the hourly rate appears to be a much better value than what you are proposing
"The hourly rate seems to be the much better offer.."
Retail businesses routinely offer better value to those who are willing to pay more, so what?
Should Mr Slansky decide not to respond to your offer. May I say you can E-Mail me anytime, with any question for half the price, and the answer of course we be half the value.
SPM,...maybe 1/10 of the value...
I am going to Phoenix in two weeks and will have some time to play poker. Anyone familiar with the poker rooms in the Phoeniz area I would appreciate hearing about games available, best places to play etc. THANKS The Kount
Sorry for the late response, I thought maybe some of the guys who live there would do this. There are three cardrooms in the Phoenix area: Casino Arizona, at 101 and McKellips in Scottsdale is the best, has the most action, spreads the most games, with the most different limits. 3-6 up to 75-150 holdem and stud. CA also has one of the best hotel deals anywhere, The Scottsdale Pima Inn, where you can get a room for $39, or a great suite for $69. Fort McDowell, at Shea Blvd and the Beeline Hwy, has games up to 6-12 usually and has a huge limit or pot limit game, like 150-300 and up. It's a 20 minute drive east of Scottsdale. Gila River, in Chandler, has lower limits also, and has daily tournaments. You can get more information on all of these in their ads in the poker magazines or by calling them.
Sklansky, Malmuth, and Zee
I am aware of your interest in numerous gambling games. I am wondering, however, if any of you play pool?
I think Ciaffone was a player years ago.
Hi Glen. I played pool for about 30 years, but I have about quit so that I can use the hours of practice it takes to concentrate on blackjack and poker. I played mostly 9-ball and one-pocket. It's a great game. Too bad most pool players have no class and would steal from their Grandmother. I think that is the reason pool has not gained the popularity of other one on one sports such as tennis and golf. Dino.
I heard David Sklansky was a swimmer in college. I'm not sure whether they used a standard sized pool or Olympic size.
yeh, i played a little, made a little -- whats the follow question.
Sing the following to the tune of the Mickey Mouse Club...
What's the name of the game that's made for you and me.
T e x a s h o l d e m, Texas Hold'em, Texas Hold'em, forever let us hold our aces high.
Come along and raise a bet and join or game in progress.
T e x a s h o l d e m...
That was nice, but don't give up your day job. Now lets get a recap of todays action in a nut shell. He said to himself while on the ride home. Well knuckle head, what's to nights lesson? Too much fun then your game went ballistic. In other words about eight hours of random stupidity, equaling no gain and another loss. They call it, retrograde, advance to the rear. Shall we take another long vision quest to Never Never Land. "I think not!" thought the 2+2 Lurkers.
There was a simpler time when Santa Claus was real and the Tooth Fairy actually left cash under your pillow. A time when we were so stupid we actually believed the tortoise beat the rabbit. The fairy tale ends here, no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. No lucky streak to sustain the pathetic show of idiotic poker decisions. We are in the land of equal opportunity, you may play, any two cards, form any position, as long as you have chips on the table. Then, you can go home.
SPM,...at home, finishing my home work assignment...
Last half of home work assignment.
Hollywood Casino, Aurora, IL Poker Room Phone# 630-801-7471
Everyday, 1-5 Seven Card Stud, Texas Hold'em, 2.50-5, 5-10 & 10-20. Featured games, Monday, 25-50 ½ & ½ starts 2:00pm, Tuesday 15-30 Omaha starts 2:00pm, Wednesday 1-4-8-8 Omaha starts 12:30pm, Thursday 20-40 Hold'em starts 7:00pm, Friday 15-30 Hold'em starts 10:00am, 15-30 Omaha starts 12:00pm.
All Omaha games are high low eight or better. No 10-20 Hold'em on Fridays. The 2.50-5 Hold'em game does not fly on Wednesday & holidays. For more detail ask Uncle Bob the floor boss, he lurks on 2+2.
two gold stars and two n/t's for you for such a splendid job. in the future please get your homework in on time.
sheesh he is tough...maybe he does really exist...imagine an imposter of someone who does not exist...gotta think on that awhile....Q7
dont sash the teacher or you will write 500 times "i will not play any two cards".
I don't believe the assignment is over. I see no mention of the other Chicago casino at which SPM was guilty of playing last weekend. Before any stars are given out he needs to complete the assignment (doesn't he?). BTW--there have been Rounder spottings at Harrah's recently.
Heading down to Atlantic City this weekend and am looking to play some 10-20 at the Tropicana. Is this a good game or is the competition very tough? All comments appreciated. Also, what is a good buy-in for a 10-20 game (i usually play 5-10), and would about $800 last me for the day?
Bringing $800 should be ok to absorb most negative swings. Personally, I like to go with $1300 so I can absorb a $1000 swing and still have $300 on the table. The worst day I had at 10-20 I finished down $500 with my low point being -$800.
I only played 10-20 at the Trop once (during the Taj poker tournament). I thought there were more better players at the Trop than the Taj. I don't know what you consider "tough" competition. The players will be a little better on average than 5-10 players. You must play tighter and more agressively. In particular, beware of drawing hands that don't do well in a short-handed raised pot.
By the way, I am a pretty young guy at 22, and will almost definitely be the youngest guy at the table. Will the older pros take a lot of shots at me because they see me as a kid with money to blow? Can I take advantage of this? Do you know what the time charge is at this level? What should I put on the table to start, 200 or 300 bucks? I think what you said about not paying out when I don't have proper odds to draw is very important at this level; how many people usually see the flop in these games, or does it vary? Is it more of a big cards/big pair game than 5-10? Also, what is the game at the Taj like; my friends are partial to the Taj, but I am open to a $6 cab ride to see how the rest of you people live. Thanks for any additional info, and maybe I'll see ya at the 10-20.
The time charge is $5.00 every half hour.
I am 33, so I tend to be on the young side of the table. Frankly, I don't think age has anything to do with "taking a shot" at a player. If a player folds a lot, he is marked as weak-tight and might be raised off a pot. The typical fish calls too much (especially cold calling raises before the flop) and pays off premium hands. I'd worry about falling into this category.
I buy in for $300 and replentish if I'm down to $150. Others like to buy in for more.
As I said before, I'm not that familiar with the Trop, but at the Taj, the game can vary to one with a lot of blind stealing to one which routinely has 5 callers. Hint: if you are in most of the pots, you are not playing well. 10-20 is where HPFAP really began to make sense to me, although I find most players play far worse than the "typical" games described in that book. I found the jump from 3-6 to 5-10 tougher than the jump from 5-10 to 10-20.
The big plus with the Taj is more games. There were 4 tables of 10-20 going last Saturday (as well as 3-4 tables of 15-30, several tables of 20-40, and probably 4 tables of 5-10). As a result, you generally don't have to wait long to get into a game. The walk from the Trop isn't that bad -- maybe 30-40 minutes.
You know I am sick of every mediocre poker players analyzing and making rediculous comments about every individual's moves and beats made during the game. So what if one is a fish or not. I am probably the biggest fish there is because I really don't know how to play cards but I really enjoy the game. I'm sure I would understand it more if an arrogant, know it all Mr. poker didn't exist on the table I play on. i may give or lose couple of thousands on the table but this loss has nothing to do with anybody. This is all about me and getting my pleasure of spending money that I could afford to lose. I didn't realize how much ego and pride existed within each poker players. Are you guys for real? It matters that much to you guys to be recognized as a good player. Also, I believe that some players do this for a living. I could see that it can be profitable. However, are you guys proud to sit around for 8-13hour session to make 300(+/-)? I guess it would be nice to put it on your resume. The point I like to make is that you are all trapped in a jar like a butterfly. You have enough room to move around and breathe but like the butterfly trapped in the jar don't really know that. It seems like every poker player who plays on a regular bases uses the mathematical and probablity reasoning as the form of escape goat in justifying their gambling habit. It seems to me many of you need to feel important to justify your existance on the poker table. The truth is that you are all broken,lazy, and money hungry because you fail to place your energy into something that is valuable like personal well being, education, family, companionship, and persuit of quality life. I'm sure knowledge is helpful and essential in determining your outcome after a poker session but I don't care how one looks at it( LUCK )has more impact on the game than one's superior skills. It's really sad to know that individuals can be proud and happy to earn money by wasting hours of quality time and taking advantage of others who are broken from their lively hood. Do yo know that majority of the poker rooms are filled with great poker players who are suffering from depression and lonesomeness. On the contrary, wealthy and retired professional who really don't give a F#*k if they lost little of their fortune for entertainment? Any given time I will be happy losing couple of bucks gambling just to keep my sanity straight and earn an honest living rather than fool myself and make impressions of being important in a place where there is no real world value. Can you imagine how many intelligent and worthy people been rediculed by "poker players" because they lack the need to win? Perhaps, it's not about winning to them. One may argue then why give money away or lose? That's the big difference in the quality of the people. Would you be grinding or play real tight trying to scrape up some change to feed your family or pay for your personal needs? I can tell you that many people shouldn't even be playing! Yet, whom am I to judge. More importantly, why should anybody be under any pressure and be scrutnized for having a good time. Especially, when I know that all walks of life enjoys poker and most of the real good players don't have a life away from the table. If they do, it's not a good one. I am willing to bet that most good players have a obligations to fill away from poker sessions but they are not really living the life style they truly desire. In that alone is a falicy of life. Too many peope are busy trying to make a living that they don't know how to live. On that note, think of improving your lives it's naver too late!
the take home message fellers...do not rattle the aquarium glass walls...a gush of water may leak out on you...jmho...gl all
It's mind over matter pal. We don't mind cuz you (and your rantings) don't bloody matter.
You don't know any of us - most on this bb (save the cyber punks on the internet forum) could buy and sell you many times over - most here have had success far beyond your wildest dreams.
If you have some asshole at the table making comments learn how to shut them up - but - don't put us all in their class OK.
Maybe you ought to take up golf - but then someone might tell you to keep your left arm straight and we couldn't have that.
Have a really nice day PAL!
Rounders the biggest cyperpunk(ed)right in the same category of a optium Asshole
Have disgraced the presidency and sold out America.
Not only is he a yellow coward (like you) draft dodger he sold out the country even on his last day he sold the sacred pardons - this man is a waste of skin a lot like you.
W.Bush is the only DESERTER ever to occupy the White House.
Wow don't hold anything back. I bet you feel better now that you got that off your chest. I appologize for all the rude comments made at the table. I am in full agreement, it's stupid and counter productive.
What you need is a SPM to protect your right to play any two cards from any position. Where shall I send my resume.
SPM,...defender of the right of all players to play any two cards from any position...
and of course the mayor of a2c town will be there to filibuster...gl all..
I was recently involved in an all night 20-40 stud game at the Mirage that was jam packed with action. When one of the players who is also an employee of the Mirage, in a supervisory position was getting tired of getting beat so he continued to make unneccessary remarks to other players while involved in hands with them. This in turn caused the best action player (besides himself) to get very upset and sent him playing to the Bellagio. This gentleman that he ran off comes to play poker once or twice a year from Egypt and chooses to play and stay at the Mirage and will play anything from the lowest limit stud to the highest limit spread at the Mirage. I would think that the employee who was in the game would take that into considertaion and appreciate that this man would rather play in "his" cardroom. I was so astounded to see that his behavior just continued and as a result other players were very upset to see that he ran off this man. I hope that he learns from this grave mistake. He ought to take whatever measures neccessary to make ammends with this valuable customer and only hope that he will return to the Mirage as I continue to play in that room and prefer to play there as well.
Talking is a big part of poker,friendly talk, not so friendly talk,sports talk,talking to suck up to people, talking to aggravate and psyche out people. Anonymous doesn't seem to like it,so she should probably play on the internet only, and cover up the player's chat with a piece of paper, or find a game with a bunch of monks. Unfortunatly,for her,at the Mirage, everybody is allowed to speak,if that upset that player who comes once or twice a year,that's too bad.The supervisor in question plays there a couple of hundred days a year, not just once or twice, and is one of the loosest players in the place, he starts up games all the time, and they're good because of him, sometimes he drinks a little and REALLY livens up the game,if he ticks someone off occasionally, I'm sorry, but THAT'S POKER.I've been playing at the Bellagio for a while, but have come back to the Mirage lately and he is one of the reasons I'm back. He is a classic poker person, an excellent shift boss, an ACTION player, an interesting and funny guy, most employees of the poker room who gamble, blow there money on slots, or sports, but this guy tries to give it to US, and anonymous is COMPLAINING about it.Anonymous should worry about losing HIM to the Bellagio, not some guy who comes in once or twice a year,if this supervisor goes to the Bellagio, the games will probably follow him there, Anonymous can then wait at the Mirage for that Egyptian guy to show up,or better yet, go to Egypt to play, they might not talk to much there.
Awwwww poor baby, If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.!!!! I am sure you have heard that one. And why are you Anonymous? Are you scared someone might find out what a looser you really are. Here is a riddle for you.. You really should think about it for a min.
At one table you have 2 live players. 1 comes once a year from Egypt and the 2nd one is there playing all year around. Hmmmmmmm which one should I try to keep. Man that is a real hard one huh?
I also think you should be the one to apologize to the poker room shift boss for your ignorance.
Have a nice day.
I must admit you might have nailed few points there. i came upon few great individuals across U.S. who are phenominal poker players but had a bumpy ride of life to get there. Yet, there still great poker players. I don't believe anybody asked God for the adversities to be brought on to them but like poker, life isn't fair. At the same time, other peoples' life style has nothing to do with losing. Granted, some people are more fortunate then others thus it still doesn''t have anything to do with losing. I understand your anger and I would like to apologize on behalf of my poker collegues. It is very unprofessional. I will also agree that your assessment of those rude players are probably acurate but I'll leave that opinion to you. Finally, I want to touch upon a subject you mentioned in your post ARROGANCE. It is very unfair for you to believe that quality of life cannot be achieved by individuals that play professional poker. You don't think that individual has the capacity to manage a good life because they play poker to win. Did I misunderstand your stand point. The arrogance is all you because what you are saying is that you have so much money that you can blowoff thousands of dollars a night so that you can keep up with your sanity. Isn't that a problem itself. You seem like the guy with serious issues. Speaking of life that is worthy and dignifying why don't you just donate your money to a good cause/charity instead of losing it to the people you despise so much. Frankly, I am paying the price myself right now. I know what type of player I am but lately I have not given any value to the money I have staked in a poker game and it was way too costly. I blamed it on the adversity I am facing and lack of truth about life and value. Let me tell you after all has been said and done like yourself it's all about me. I broke the golden rules and the discipline of life that once made me a better individual. I am changing my life around to take full responsibility. It looks like you need to do some soul searching on your own. It's definitely not going to help by taking your aggression out on the poker players. Give and take, majority of the players are good people regardless of where they have been in there life cycle. Life is too precious for all the bull shit people create. Be honest to yourself and things will unfold by itself. I hope to play with you someday. I could tell you this you can play anyway you desire and I won't say a thing! That is a promise.
Anyone have any info no Davenport Iowa casinos. Like which ones have card rooms and what poker they spread.
Also tournament info would be appreciated.
Let me see you played at Hollywood, then Harrah's, now you want info on Daveport. Why do you want to add another casino you will never play in again?
I here the action is good on weekends, the President was the casino to go to but now it's the other one. I don't know the name.
SPM,...come back little Sheba...
That's good news, will you be a regular again?
SPM,...looking for a chance to play with the Rounder one more time...
i did not write the above post. if people are going to ruin things by using my name action will be taken.
this refers to the post under something to be understood
The Valley of Patience police have been contacted. I spoke with the chief of the detectives and here is his report.
We have determined that Mr. Ray Zee speaks the truth. Please note that the imposters ramblings were written in both lower and uper case letters. Mr. Zee only writes in lower case. His computer fingers are hadicaped, and the shift key is to hard to push.
To the imposter you blew it fella, post your own call sign. How could you do it, why did you do it, when will you do it again. Don't mess with one of the Saints of Poker. And do some research before commiting your next crime.
The VoP police will dog you until you are exposed to all the fine people here on 2+2.
SPM,...Sorry Ray, your true followers knew it wasn't you...
Ray and everyone else:
The imposter posts have been deleted.
It is now Official. David and I will be doing a Question and Answer Session at The Mirage on April 20 at 3:00 pm. It will last an an hour-and-a-half and will be held in the Saint Kitts Room. Watch this site for more information. (The Mirage Poker Room will have have information as we approach April 20.)
For those out of towners that may not know how to find the saint kitts room. It's in the convention area. To get to the convention area, go like you are going to the swimming pool,but make a right before the pool entrance doors. There are a bunch of marked meeting and convention rooms. This is where you will find the saint kitts room, if my memory is correct.
the faster way is to cut through the white tiger cage then go on into the shark fish tank and out past the dolphins. when leaving go over the volcano and beat the traffic.
No. There will be no new books from Two Plus Two at that time.
The SPM may not the brightest bulb in the lamp but he understands the basic concept of, keep the game moving, please. To all you remedial readers of the first two cards. Please pay attention in class today.
The game is Texas Hold'em, you get two cards dealt to you, at the start of each new hand. You will be in one of these starting positions, little blind, big blind, UTG, early position, middle position, at the cut off or on the boutton. Now look at your cards. NO! Not like your trying squeeze out two cards to a flush, straight, or what ever. All you have is two cards, be brave look at them both together quickly. Now make a decision fold, bet, raise. See how easy that was, keep the game moving, please.
You are looking at two cards not a novel, not a math equation, just two cards. When you take your sweet time and squeeze those two cards apart when your UTG, what are you hopping for? If the first card is a duce, save sometime. Muck It! A three, Muck It! When the first card gives you hope, don't say a silent prayer to the poker god as you squeeze the seconds away and end up mucking it anyway. Be brave, look at the two cards quickly, and make a quick decision, please.
Please speed up the process, take an Evelyn Woods reading dynamics for two cards or something. Give some thought to which two cards you will play in what positions, try to memorize the list and keep the gaming moving, please.
SPM,...was I too tough?...
Look...in the air, it's a bird, it's a plane...no it's SPM on a mission! I thought we could play any two from any where at ANY SPEED but once again I was wrong. Faster than speeding bullets or cowboys? Your tougher than the pastrami sandwich at Louie's but I beleive Krptotilt might have something to do with your post!
Please accept our appologies. We try to delete posts only when it is absolutely necessary to do so. However, when we are forced to delete, we don't like to leave oher posts dangling since they frequently will make no sense.
SPM, you need to relax and take a chill pill or have a coke and a smile. Part of slow dramatic poker is to indulge in the mystery of suspense. It's like when a guy is slowly making a subtle body gesture to muck his hand then out of nowhere he raises. I undestand that it's frustrating to play in an uncontrolled or slow paced game but occassionally people do that to have control of the tempo in th game. I know that I do just to piss a person like you off. Not directly intended. However, I do agree with you on the fact which if the first card is small 2 thru 7 just muck it. Who cares if it shall be suited or paired by the next card. The position matters too!
silly thoughts for pleasure.
Since when do you muck a hand with a 2 through 7? Last week you raised with T2 flopped two pair an lost to some guy with AA's who drew out on you.In the same game you raised with 33's UTG an won a big pot when you hit your set. Please almighty one take it easy on us an don't try to decieve the less fotunate who also might be capable of making these plays.:Lar
I must say Larry, you do have a very good point. I am wondering these days how I would like to set my tone on the table before I leave these poker joints and w on the table and I wonder how it would be for me when I return probably in next 5years. It's never too easy to under estimate your opponents but unfortunately I don't have a problem at all with underestimating my opponents and more than ever I am paying the price for being aloof to the intergrity of the game. I understand completely what it's like to have luck over any patience, skills, and knowldge. It's been proven to me time after time. I had enough of this non sense. I am going to put back my poker visor and my sendimental baseball cap and pull hit and runs. I am no longer staying around in the tables to observe how rediculous people are as well as fall into the mode of entertainment playing. I''ve been careless and indifferent about many things for the last eight month. It's time for me to get my life in gear. You know it's a problem when you can dish out several grands on the Blackjack table and lose. Pump money on the poker table and lose with no emotions is a serious problem. I tell you this because you are a cool individual. I won't say that about many people. On that note, if you examined my game with serious intent you should have noticed that decent players on the table have not taken the chips directly from me. It's really the lucky ones and the (don't have a clue one's) that does. Yet, the best thing about it is that they all come back for more. I hope that i will remain as the easiest target(fish) for everyone because poker is a one continueous game and I will return again once I get straightened out. By the way, good draw on your Ace's. I didn't want to lose that moron to my left and I already placed you on a high pocket pair. All I knew at that point was that "shit, now I'm beat". Just for the record I don't believe you bet the river. I don't recall paying you off.
I'll see you soon. I leave March 21,01. Hopefully, I have enough time to put in couple of sessions. Yeah, I'm sure you can't wait to see me donate my chips!
If you are who I think you are, then who you trying to kid? You always have the best of it! I've never seen anyone take 87o, raise UTG, wind up against KK, cap it on every street, (icluding a flop of K63) and go on to win the hand! You the man! (it's only been about a year, and I'm still steaming from that beat : ))
Hope to see ya soon and best of luck to you! You have the spirit of a winner, not just in poker, but life. I've got faith you'll land on your feet real soon! Take care.
Kevin, I was all in. Although, I do take my chances specifically on the situation I am placed in. The truth of the matter on that day is that I had approximately 85 bucks in chips and I was designing an all in play trying to max my odds. As I recall, I was on the BB you raised in with fer callers following your raise and eventually I got it all in on that round. Yes, i know that it was runner,runner, gutshot! I hope that you will forget and forgive my desparate play. Unfortunately, it came upon your powerful KK.
Good luck to you and take more risk. You have already established your Rock image. Now play around with it.
The Queen and her lucky servant Seven, the computer wiz, began a journey down a road named Fame & Fortune. They met long ago, at the corner of a computer program, located on Hard Drive & Little Space. The program spun it's mathematical numbers and after trillions of simulated hands the final word was past from one player to another player, and so on until the Computer Hand became a legend with many stories. This maybe one of them.
The Servants of the House of the Sevens were all gifted and lucky servant's. They served all the Queen's. Our story begins the day the Queen of Hearts (QoH), met the Seven of Clubs (7oC) for the first time.
The 7oC was sent to fix the hard drive on the QoH. He checked her over and concluded she had from little to no space on her hard drive. "What should I do" ask the Queen. "You'll need to spread your hard drive" responded the 7oC. "Spread my what?" she exclaimed. "Add to your hard drive" he replied. "Add what?" she enquired. He paused for a moment to rewind the question and answer session. He wanted to make sure he wasn't missing something from the exchange of words.
He was, her tone and the texture of hee words led him to believe the Queen wanted more than her hard drive fixed. She wanted to walk down the road of Fame & Fortune. "So is it Fame & Fortune you look for my Queen," he asked with a sheepish grin. "No, I'm just flirting with the notion we might get more playing time if we crunch some numbers," she explained. "Really" he shouted with anticipation.
Should a Queen ever crunch numbers with a seven? That is not in the scope of this story, our focus here is to extend the legend to it's outer limits. This Queen and Seven gave birth to the Legend of the Computer Hand. And yes it will win 80% of the time, should you doubt the integrity of the statement do the logic not the math.
He is the only logic you will get. When the Q7 off is played with the force of your own conviction, with the premise that any two cards can win. You will win 80% of the time you play the Computer Hand. Not being able to win is unthinkable, and not part of this equation. Consider the ill logical logic of the logic of the Computer Hand. We shall call the Q7 not off suited but double suited. Yes that's right you have two chances at two different flushes, plus the added value of the increased potential for making two different kinds of straights. Lest we forget two I said two shoots at quads. How about two cards capable of flopping top pair, with and without a kicker. A potential Full House over every horizon. Couples, yes that's two pair can beat pocket rockets and send the rock to Tilt Swaps. Never under estimate the value of a rumor. The legend of the Computer Hand Lives.
SPM,...slow day in the basement, happy Presidents Day...
So the message is clear
And it's not even hazy,
If your holding Q7,
Just holler, I RAYZEE
in your field...
Does Sands have a card room?
Yes they do.. mostly stud.. some holdem during the busiest times of the week. I understand they have a pot limit holdem game on friday nights.. 5-5 blinds $200 buyin, I believe.
The card room is now on the fourth floor at Sands. You have to take the hotel elevators to the fourth (escalators stop at the third). It is all stud except that Pot Limit game on Fridays which can go twenty four hours some nights. They have 1/5 with a 25cent ante, 5-10-15-15 that is very interesting and 10-20-30-30. Usually can find all three limits spread. Good room support it, so they don't close another one.
sung to davey, davey crockett...
born on a crap table cincinnatti.. cracked him some aces.. before he was three...
Suburban,,Suburban Poker Man..
king of chicago lakefront poker territory...
took deuce seven off.. and made him a flush.. cracked three kings... and started on a rush...
sub,SPM,,king of chicago poker territory....
then he remembered he took a solemn pledge.. to follow saint david, mason and play real tite... started calling KK just ace magnets.. with all his might...
subn(all together now), SPM, K of C P T...
started going bad'' just did not have the feel'' so he went to his mom's home.,, and in the basement would kneel....
to those photos of davey, mason, and zee.. and wish to all blue blazes.. that he was free...
and found the patience,power,position.. that would make his game complete.. thru those rags in the muck... and with group 1 hands make you feel the heat...
SUB, SPM, KING of Chicago POKER LAND...
so now this gentle man... is on a rush... and can be found.. at Bellagios in Vegas,,, playing with his heroes.. and taking all their cash...
well goes better with peyote buttons...i sent you 2 priority mail...gl with your vision quest..also have had Barnes and NOble send youy a copy of Don Juan...gl
Thank you very much for all the effort you put into this ode...
I tried to sing it but I got lost in the tune. My recommendation is don't give up your day job.
The three most powerful men in the world.
Okay I'm off the Hollywood Casino, just thought I'd post a disclaimer before going. Last session which was Sunday, I had way to much fun. Laughing and swapping one liners with The Cave Man, he's the guy I have to read all the posts to, because he doesn't want to buy a computer.
I have been noticing as of late, when I have too much fun in the game, my game slowly changes from tight & aggressive to Clueless Ave. play. So today, it will be my game plan to do very little entertaining at the table. So if you ask me why I'm not talking to my chips, or telling stories. The reason is, I'm working on my "A" game assuming I still have one.
I will provide details on my return to the basement.
SPM,...will need all my powers to get back to solid play...
The SPM entered the casino poker room, it was past noon but before three. He still had bruises from Sundays tilt oh lea. Yes he knows, SPM self inflected wounds. However, the SPM burned all the money that came from the same pocket, in a craps fire sale, point, seven. The SPM felt it was tainted money, so he trashed it fast, then went home and never gave it a thought, until he was half way in the poker room today.
Got to stay away from that craps table, thought the SPM as he began to look over the poker games like a hungry predator. It was feeding time and the first seat finally opened in the 10-20 hold'em game. The game looked a little stiff, action players on board and no one making a move. The SPM stayed in tune to the game and tried to focus on tight and aggressive. The dealers came and went and the cards flew into the air one hand after another. There was action a foot at Hollywood Casino in Aurora, IL.
Finally some good players were moved to the main 10-20 game, other solid players left and the replacement team came to play cards. The pot size went from 3/4 stack to 1 ½ stacks to 3 to 5 stack pots. Them's a lot stacks, hand after hand. The SPM was practicing his mucking skills, hand after hand, the dealer threw him a bone occasionally but nobody wanted to play with the SPM at the river.
Van a regular 2+2 poster child, stopped by to remind the SPM to stay focused. He gave the SPM the 2+2 hand sign and said "play long and prosper." Well, if he thought of it, he would have. Chips began flying into the center of the table, the SPM calls a raise in the big blind with 54 hearts. The SPM takes down a big one when the river makes him the nut flush, well the only flush. :-)
Pocket aces and the poker god granted them a win, the SPM smiles as he rakes in stacks and stacks of chips. Then the voice of Roy the Floor, "Suburban, main game"(long silence)... ... ... ... ... "No!" says the SPM, I choose to go home to my bride. Three and a half hours, and the SPM won Sundays nine hour loss back plus some profit for the week. Film at eleven, ok no film it just sounded good.
You know winning is so much more fun than losing! And when things are going right, you feel like a world class poker champion. Sure our reality might be something less but boy that high of winning sure is intoxicating. Basement Man will never be a great ball player, or even one of the best in the business. But after a winning night at the poker table, Basement Man feels like "The Suburban Poker Man!"
SPM,...staying focused, I might try that concept again...
JUst bluffing...had you worried tho...didn"t I...gl great win...ever play Screaming Iggle?...watch out for carpal tunnel from overactive mucking...gl
I just found an interesting game at my college where it is a dealers choice game. The betting works likes this a $1 ante then in any flop game u can bet up to $2 preflop then $3 on the flop, then up to $4 on the turn, and then up to $5 on River. In 7 and 5 card games u can bet $1 any time, up to $2 dollars with a pair showing, up to $4 with anything else higher and then up to $5 after the river. Occansionly people call wild card games like follow the Queen and Baseball. In this game I ussuly just fold in these games but 80-85% constist of 7 stud, texas, and ohamal. 1 more thing there is no all-in or raises being capped. I am wondering what people think of this game and knowing that there is only one other person the understands the game. the other are bumbling idiots who will call u with trips up when they don't even have a pair. I think this game could be profitable but I wanted to know what u guys thought of it any help would be very thankful
Sounds pretty good to me, but don't forget the most important thing. Get a good education first.
SPM,...4.0 sounds good to me...
I played games and guys like this in the Marine corps and in College. I say play these games it really isn't the game it's the players.
Just remember the cardinal rule - you can sheer a sheep many times but you can skin him only once.
How about a knucle sandwich 5 different ways you constipated conservative
You piece of crap. I'll give you so many rights you'll be praying for a left.
How about "I'll hit you so hard, it will kill your whole family." That was a good one from one of my favorite movies, Diner.
Take care, Mike.
Not related to fighting, but one of my favorite lines is also from Diner: "The Ponderosa doesn't look real in color."
Great, great flick. That screenplay has many beautiful lines. I loved Kevin Bacon and Mickey Rourke's characters.
I don't have a copy, but I will have to rent it to pick out some other nuggets.
Any movie that can actually make Steve Guttenburg look good must be well done.
btw, If you know any old diehard Colts fans, check out this: http://www.cordair.com/capuletti/unitas.ht
...of a good line about Bonanza from "Tin Men":
(paraphrasing) 'I don't get it. What's with this 50 year old man with three 45 year old sons?'
I was going to say that I can't believe you read all the inane posts in this thread, then I realized that I read them too.
or this one from Festus of Gunsmoke,
"I'll knock lumps on your head faster than you can rub 'em!"
Rather immature don't you think, Mike.
You haven't seen me on tilt.
Hello is a body posting these days? My posts are getting jamed up here. What do you people do play cards all day and night. Where are the threads, where's the jive talk. Come on lets get out of bed and start posting.
SPM,...in sybespace all alone...
Start another top ten list. Those are always fun. How about your top ten encounters with dead rock stars...
Well one reason beside the Swiss bank account in the clintons name.
Impeach me again? Don't you mean INpeach? I would gladly INpeach the peach of my choice. And as far as Mr. Riches pardon, well...his wife came to visit me at the white house twice a week for a year. Her and I reminiced about Monica and Hillary. I showed her my collection of documented lies to the Grand Jury. And I told her that my favorite number is 42.!
She never "Came" out and asked me for a pardon for Rich, BUTT" she did talk to Willie JR about it. He seemed to enjoy his many conversations with her although he never really said anything, And she of course swallowed everything he came out with. But probably the Biggest reason I pardoned Mr 48 million was because he said I was welcome to visit him anytime. So if W's justice department ever catches up with me I have a home in another country.
How long do I need to wait, before I get to see the Valley and the tips of the mountains? I'm the Mayor of Any2card Town, I'm not from the Valley of Patience so time is limited.
: - O
That looks like two reasons to me.
clinton makes Nixon look like Carter.
I don't believe that Richie Rich worked for a top crime boss. Nixon makes CLinton look like a poor student of the art of crime.
BTW - Tony was at both of my weddings.
And you are an idiot - this will be the last time I open one of your igonrant stupid posts.
no one in their right mind that wishes yo avoid FBI scrutiny would ever acknowledge a personal relationship with Tony Accardo. I hope you declare all your poker income, and have severed your organized crime ties for the sake of your family. Otherwise, we will write you down the river.
You really are a complete asshole.
I hope you never need a hemroid operation your poor doctor won't know where to start.
Ha Ha Ha
You are already under surveillance.
The four Kingdoms of Clubs, Diamonds, Hearts, and Spades have been at war sense the early days of The Land of Poker. The Kingdoms stretched their mighty power from Poker Mountain this side of The Valley of Patience thru Border Town and along the Mighty River ending at Lake New Deal just this side of Any2card Town. Branching off both sides of the river are many channels that lead to the Tilt Swamps, which border both sides of the river in two Towns and a Valley. Got the picture? Good.
The Battle of the Troubled Lovers, happened on a cold cloudy February day near the first weeping willow tree to ever see a Hold'em battle, today it's called First Street in A2CT. Two Royal Riders (TRR) reached the weeping willow Under The Direction (UTG) of one of the Kings. The TRR raised their swords announcing their intentions to fight to the end. A rag man called out to them, "I hope I'm not to early to join the battle," but before the TRR could answer the Queen Hearts and her part time lover the Ten of Hearts (Q & 10h) jumped out without thinking and demanded to be allowed to fight. Before anyone knew it, three other brave competitors showed up plus two blind guys. The battle started and the eight combatants fought with deadly looks and aggressive posturing.
The Queen and Ten of Diamonds and their servant the Four of Diamonds seemed to flop into the battle from the fickled finger of the Great Dealers Hands Himself. The Q & 10h saw their cousins and were sure they had come to help. The TRR backed off from the battle for an equipment check. The rag man was dead, and the Q & 10h began to wager on the out come of the battle. The last standing brave competitor raised his sword and the small blind guy was dead. The bigger blind guy was clueless and just called out "where's the battle." As everyone saw what happened there was a moment of silence and then everyone called to fight the aggressor. The TRR returned to the battle and a strange turn of events happened. The Seven of Clubs came around the turn and immediately the TRR's stopped again to check their equipment. The Q & 10h foolishly made another wagered, and the last standing brave competitor raised their weapons in defiance. The big blind guy went into the forest and has never been seen again. The TRR called out, "we will fight to the river," and the Q & 10h raised their shields, "back in your face!" someone said. The last standing competitor was shocked at the aggressiveness of the Q & 10h and called them something but no one remembers what they said. Then without warning the TRR raised their swords and everyone was taken buy surprise.
At the river the battle was all but over, no poise, no calvary, the TRR had taken all bets and when they put the last of their royal treasure onto the battle field the competitors made crying calls for mercy. As the TRR took off their battle helmets and showed their true identity. The Q & 10h new they had been tricked by their cousins and the last standing competitor new they could never lead the house of Diamonds, there had never been a 54 of Diamonds monarch ever. The Battle of the Troubled Lovers was over. The morale of the story, don't bring a trouble love affair into a battle when stacks are too high.
SPM,...learning the hard way...
Are you by any chance related to J.R.R. Tolken?
If you start posting maps of these mythical places, I'm gonna have to dig out my copy of Lord of the Rings and look for any resemblances. Great piece!
hey Kevin, remember Gandalf? SPM bears a striking resemblance, dont ya think?
see ya soon :)
Tell me about learning the hard way!
Are you the rather attractive blond who is always live straddling the pot at Hollywood.
No, darlin'. But if it's any consolation, my husband throws rocks at blondes after being with me ;)
You go girl with your bad ass self!
Although I've seen desire straddle many times on Hollywood table. Rounder I know who you are talking about. If that person was a car. I definitely have to say she has quality options.
Nice - what an understatement - that is like saying Tiger plays a nice game of golf.
The blond is a nice lady with incredible breasts , but you could have a set yourself, they go for about 5 dimes
Put your pencil away, desire is too much women for you.
SPM,...but the joy of the conquest would be delightful...
Now that you mention it... And I suppose you'd put "anonymous" as a dead ringer for Golub.
ick..that gave me a visual i didn't need.
This may be old news to some, but I know some people only read one board or the other(2+2,rgp).
The Statosphere is closing their poker room in one week. The Regent is opening a new poker room next Thursday.
The news of the Regent is great for those of us who live on the west side of Las Vegas and enjoy playing low-limit poker. I took a guided tour of the new room today and was very impressed.
The Statosphere news is sad for those of us who enjoy playing small blind no-limit poker in Las Vegas.Their tournaments were great too. Where else could you get 10,000 in T chips for a $100 entry fee?
I've played no-limit in one of Jim's rooms before ,so maybe after the place(Regent) gets it's feet on the ground we can talk him into spreading it there.
Good Luck to Randy, Stan, and the whole bunch at the Strat and thanks for doing such a great job with what little you had to work with.
I'm in bad need of a spell check :-)
I want to thank everyone who has contacted by phone or email the last couple of days. I also want to remind everyone that the Stratsophere poker room is still open for business and has a $125 buy-in no limit hold'em tournament at 1pm on Thur Mar 1. I expect a good crowd for this final tounament; preregistration is suggested.
Randy Refeld Tower poker room
I might be a little dumb, but.... why when its struggling to attract customers... would the Strat close its poker room..?. which seems to be one of the few successes in this establishment.
The Valley of Patience (VoP) streets are paved with the soulless rocks of players who came to the Valley with hopes of becoming rich and famous. Reality is a cruel teacher who demands payment when errors are made. Their desire did not match the discipline needed to accomplish the task of tight and aggressive. Their souls return to their home towns for re-indoctrination, these soulless rocks pave the streets of the VoP.
Most of these souls will return to the VoP after receiving additional training in the art of discipline. There is more to being a Rock than just winning with Pocket Aces. Playing great hands that actually play them self, does not make the player a solid Rock. To become a Rock one most learn to embrace the release factor. Every hold'em player understands the reality that any two cards can win. The Rock in training must learn any two can win in the short run but never in the long run, it's best to release. Being a Rock is a long term obligation that can take all the fun out of gambling.
Players who have lost their Rock status in the VoP, can return to the Valley on the very next hand. This rule has been hiding in the corners of poker rooms for years. Most players are unaware of its implications. A player playing below Rock performance while being re- indoctrinated will continue to make poor decisions until they finally understand and embrace the release factor.
The release factor provides all players and equal opportunity to release them self form the bondage of two mediocre cards, held from any position. The average player feels compelled to play these hands in an effort to demonstrate his post flop abilities to fit the flop or drop. This right of passage ruins many a potentially solid player from becoming permeant residents of the VoP.
The SPM was on a return visit to the VoP tonight, the game was full of action with one player winning thirteen stacks in two hands in a 10-20 hold'em game. The action was beyond your wildest dreams. If only Lady Luck could find me now, wished the SPM, as he released another big card little card off suit into the muck, as if suited would be any better. The SPM's release technique was fully automated.
Sometimes the lack of action causes you to lose your focus. Your in the sb with Mr Big Little, two middle limpers and the bet is to you, fully automated your systems jams and you call. The flop gives you top pair no kicker. You check and Mr Limper #1 bets, all call. At the river your ability to look like a calling station, wins you and Oscar, but Mr Limper #1 wins the pot because he has the magic kicker.
You are no longer in the quite rock garden in the VoP. You find yourself back in Any2card Town (A2CT) with two new mediocre cards on the button, all fold to you, is it the right of passage to call or time to release and return to the VoP...
SPM,...released, & booked a winner...
I'm going to Paris in the middle of March for about 8 days, and I was looking for some information on the Aviation Club. I've looked it up in the Poker Pages directory, but I was wondering what other casino games it has, what is the dress code, do you have to be a member and what that entails, and so on. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks
Last June I was planning a trip to Paris from London but a friend came donw fery sick so I cancelled it.
This site should have info on the Aviation Club - You may run into Patraig Parkenson there.
The other games which are being played are Blackjack,caribbean stud,baccarat and backgammon. You can become a member when you walk in( no fee ) No joggingshoes. Jeans allowed if you wear a jacket. email me if you need more information.
Anyone ever play the pot limit game at the Sands in AC on Friday? 1st question, when does it go on friday, how early should you get there, is it tough to be brushed in? What is the time charge? I hear the buy-in is 200, is that right? What do people actually buy in for? How deep does the money get? Is the competition tough? Any help appreciated.
Here is some of what I recall reading from posts by Jason Virayayuthakorn (if I spelled that right, and Jason is reading this, you owe me a drink or something) on rgp. All of these facts are highly questionable, and should be confirmed by doing a search of rgp archives on google.
The game starts at 9. Sometimes there are 2 games. Sometimes the games start earlier than 9. There are some very loose players in the game. There was over $30,000 on the table the other night.
I wish AC wasn't so far from Foxwoods. I just can't justify a 5-6 hour drive each way for one game. If anyone is ever flying their own private plane from SE CT to AC, let me know.
Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)
Hello, I am a reporter for a college newspaper in Toronto, Canada, and I'm doing a story about on line gambling. I was just wondering if there was anyone who like to talk about this subject on the Record? I just need to know how long you have been gambling on line? Did you gamble a lot prior to using the internet? Would you consider yourself to have a gambling problem? Do you think gambling online is more dangerous then gambling in a real casino? Do you have any online gambling horror stories? If you could answer any of these questions or anything related to the subject this would be much appreciated. If you want to be discreet about the matter do not hesitate to email me. I would appreciate any help. Thank you!
No, not Clinton's plundering of the powers of the Presidency, as that is commonplace by now.
More outrageous is the GRammy award for Album of the Year to jazz-rock white bread has=beens Steely Dan. This is especially unjust since there was a good album nominated for a change- Radiohead's brilliant and groundbreaking Kid A.
Oh well, didn't the Grammy's once pick Milli Vanilli as Best New Artist?
At least they got that one sort of right this year by selecting Shelby Lynne. She is great, but not exactly new. Her first album was released 8 years ago.
Anyone who thinks the grammys reflect or award the best music of the year is a fool. They basically are awards for people who the grammys missed when they were in their prime the first time around and are now trying to make up for it.
I do not watch them anymore because of this. I did hear on the radio this morning a local DJ say/ask why didnt Elton John bash Enimen with his piano stool? I was kind of thinking it should be the other way around...
The Grammys have always been a farce. I swore off the show back in '87 when Jethro Tull's "Crest of a Knave" beat out Metallica's "And Justice.." for best metal album, and I can honestly say I've never watched the show since. Although I did tune in for about five minutes this week-- just long enough to see that weasel eminem sing (chant? rap? warble? pick a verb) his narcissistic hit "Stan". BTW, what is it with that guy? I absolutely can't stand him, can't for the life of me understand why anyone would claim he's talented, and yet he's managed to seduce any number of otherwise astute critics and music fans.
I have written a poker program that is designed for playing No Limit Hold'em Heads Up Poker. It is a windows based program and can be played over the net against one other person.
If anyone is interested in trying it out please let me know. It is currently in "beta" testing.
Thanks, Ken Poklitar
I'll play you Ken. How does it work. Please email me the details at my home address email@example.com
missed the Grammy's last night. sigh. instead I got loaded on beer and tequila and went to see Willie Nelson at the Fillmore in SF. one of the best concerts I've ever been to. The man is an american music legend and at 157 years old still puts on one hell of a show. Don't pass up a chance to see Willie if the opportunity arises.
Johnny Cash r000lz. He won a couple of Grammys last night and is still cranking out good records.
I hope he doesn't die.
I like Willie, too. But not as much as Johnny Cash, an American legend.
The only thing worth watching on the Grammys was Toni Braxton and that dress
Didn't know the Grammys were on last night.
Took wife and my 2 girls to see Willie last summer at Fort Missoula. Good show, my two teeenagers even enjoyed him. I had to prode them to go.
He just kept on singing. I left on what I thought was his last and an hour later when my girls came to the car he was still singing.
I hope you share your experiences with the long rod as you discover what the Golden State has to offer.
Caught Willie at Caesar's Palace about 25 years ago. Midnight show, Saturday night. Place was packed, crowd was electric. At one point, he pulls Bum Phillips out of the crowd to sing a duet (back when the Oilers were going good and they were still in Houston). At 3:15 a.m., I was finally just too tired to keep partying and went back to the room. For all I know, they might still be on stage. Best Vegas show I ever saw. Period.
man Boris, was that you in the dirty t-shirt that read, "America, love it or leave it" and was hooting and hollerin' for Willie to show some leg?
Sheesh, a bit less tequila next time, ya think?
shoulda seen him at (i want to go home to the armadillo) austin about 30 years ago...super performer...
OK, not ever, but the best ones I attended. Boris' post below got me thinking about this.
Marshall Tucker Band and Firefall at the Harry Adams Field House, Missoula, MT 1978. OK it wasn't that good but it was the first concert I went to and I got a cool contact buzz and "Can't You See" is a masterpiece and Firefall had this one great song that I can't remember what is is called.
Smashing Pumpkins at the Masquerade, Atlanta GA around 1990. They only had their debut album out at this time, but it sure kicked ass even if it was only 75 minutes worth of music. I got to rap and share a beer with Billy Corgan during the opening act before he was a BIG ROCK STAR. He was very insecure.
Dinosaur Jr and My Bloody Valentine at the Masquerade, Atlanta GA 1990. I saw a lot of great shows at the Masquerade but this was one of the ear-splitting best. J Mascis wears earplugs which wasn't very cool or fair.
Social Distortion/Sonic Youth/Neil Young and Crazy Horse at the Spectrum, Houston, TX 1991. The most eclectic line up ever. It was worth the price of admission to see the redneck's scowling faces when Thurston Moore played a guitar "solo" using a screwdriver instead of a pick. Same rednecks booed Mike Ness until he won them over with "Ball and Chain" just like the Blues Brothers singing Rawhide. And they also cheered Neil Young's shouting "Great State of Texas". I guess they have no sense of irony or don't remember "Southern Man."
Pegboy and Social Distortion, Georgia State College, Atlanta GA 1991. Some frat guy bumrushed the stage and grabbed Mike Ness' hat so Mike Ness kicked him in the teeth and screamed "that motherf**er stole my hat" before storming off the stage in protest. The three songs they did were great and Pegboy was great old school punk even though I had never heard them before or since.
Radiohead at some club in Boston, MA 1992. They were the opening act for some alternative band that I don't even remember (it might even have been Dino Jr again)back when their song Creep made them seem destined for one hit wonder status. This live show made a fan out of me and it was one of my few great calls about a band destined for greatness back in my Rock Critic days.
The Pixies at the Orpheum, Boston, MA 1993. They really shoulda been contendahs. A live show is not really their thing, but Planet of Sound is still the densest chunk of music you will ever hear and they ripped that one off with vigor.
Bettie Serveert at Maxwell's, Hoboken, NJ 1995. If you like rock music and haven't heard of this Dutch band that had modest success in the early 1990s you should download the son "Kid's Allright" from their Palomine Album. Great show that was sold out and I wasn't holding a ticket. I recognized a guy smoking in front of Maxwell's as my buddy and I were trying to talk our way past the doorman. It was the lead guitarist from the band who let is in for free and even introduced us to their lead singer, Carol van Dyk who was really cool and really sexy even though she isn't that good looking.
Bruce Springsteen in Albany, NY 2000. The Boss is still the Boss when it comes to old school rock and roll. This was one of many times I had seen him (first time in Tacoma, WA 1988) and stands out in my mind as the best.
Mike Ness at Town Hall, NY, NY 2000. Former front man of Social Distortion delivers blistering rockabilly and a fierce rendition of I Fought the Law that even put the Clash's version to shame. I also knew a guy who got into a fight with Mike Ness over a whose turn it was at the pool table in Atlanta, GA and Mike Ness kicked the guy's ass even though he only weighs about 140 pounds. He is the real tattooed deal.
ZZ Top in Vancouver in 1985 (approx), the Eliminator tour. The crowd was so good that for ZZ top's next album they shot a couple of videos during the Vancouver concert.
Or maybe it was because it was my first experiment (and one of my last) with pot, who knows.
I vaguely remember, I believe the 3 day festivals I attended during the 60's in Seattle and Vancover,BC were the best. 20-30 groups during 3 days and camping included for$5. Saw the Doors, Alice Cooper Spirit Ike and Tina Turner,Chuck Berry and many more that have faded from memory.
Chicago and Deep Purple were good, saw them in Seattle.
I attended very few rock concerts 70 till present. I believe Black Sabbothand Grand Funk Railroad were last.
Led Zepplan and 3 Dog Night together in Seattle 68.
Pink Floyd Early 1971 Akron..man outta here..amazing..far f+++ing out...
The aforementioned Willie Nelson in Vegas, although by definition, Willie in Vegas may not be eligible.
Zep in the old Edmonton Gardens, ca. 1967. Their first album had just come out and no one had ever heard of them, at least I never had, for sure. Fellow bagboy at Safeway drags me out to the show. Maybe 1,500 people in attendance, tops. Got to sit basically wherever you wanted; we of course went right down front. Loudest sound before or since. Robert and Jimmy and the boys mixed with the crowd after the show, about what you might have expected from a garage band at a HS gig. My first rock show. Unforgettable, and not just because they turned out to be the biggest band in the world about 2 years later.
The Eagles, Northlands Coliseum, mid-70's. They had torn down the Gardens and built a 17,000 seat building to house the Oilers and the Eagles were the first big rock show in the building. Just a peaceful, easy feeling.
Any of several Tragically Hip shows over the past 10 years or so. Of course, 'Mericans think Barenaked Ladies are the best band in Canada right now, and not to 'dis the Ladies, but please.
Wide Mouth Mason at the Sidetrack Cafe about 3 years ago, just before their first album broke. Who?, you say? This might be one of the top young blues bands around right now. Just wait. Burned down the house.
Ray Charles and the Raylettes at the Jubilee Auditorium in Edmonton, mid 60's. In the midst of the Beatles, the British Invasion, etc. a buddy and I were into R&B. Ray Charles comes to our town for the first time, and here's these two 15 year olds smack in the middle of the front row with all the bluehairs and the tuxedos. His piano/organ sideman at the show? Billy Preston.
For my money, NoMeansNo is the best Canadian band today, and has been since 1981. Two brothers from Victoria, BC that play a blistering style of punk with great bass and drums and political lyrics. Playing in Seattle tonight, as a matter of fact. They are in their 40s and still play small clubs and rock.
Barenaked Ladies are quite possibly the worst band ever, from anywhere.
...other good ones I've been to.
Alice In Chains at the old University Theatre in Missoula.
Sonic Youth in SF. Definitely a live band, masters of sound.
Metallica in Billings, MT back when they were still pissed off.
Ricky Skaggs and Kentucky Thunder at the Last Day Saloon in SF
Holy shit NOFX kicked ass last night at the House of Blues. Never been to a concert though so I cant comment on the best ever. Punk shows almost always rock though, thank (poker)god i get to see NOFX again tonight. Of course that means taking another night off of playing Hold'em(working, whatever you wanna call it) at Hawaiian Gardens but oh well money can wait:-)
1/9/82 in the old Salt Palace in SLC. Ozzy w/Randy Rhoads, a month before the plane crash. I had a seat in the front row in front of RR; I never looked at Ozzy once the whole night.
Well, I was born in the 70's, so I can't compete with the guys above who saw Led Zep and the Doors and all that classic stuff, but here are a few concerts I was really blown away by. Just about all of them were between 1990 and 1993:
Helmet at the Brighton Bar in Long Branch, NJ. There were about 30 people in the room, and they blew our doors off. We didn't yet know they were a one trick pony, so the trick was pretty friggin good.
Voivod at City Gardens in Trenton. We left half way through their set. They sucked. But the two opening bands on the bill were Faith No More (promoting The Real Thing) and Soundgarden (just after Louder than Love was released). Awesome.
Primus, also at City Gardens. Les Claypool spent the whole show dancing some kind of funky jig, while playing a 6 string FRETLESS bass flawlessly. And their choice of cover tunes was wild, from Master of Puppets by Metallica to Needle and Damage Done by Neil Young.
Fishbone somewhere in upstate NY. Just before the Reality of My Surroundings album was released. Nonstop funk party.
One concert I'll never forget was one I never got to see. Two weeks after Nevermind was released, Nirvana played at J.C. Dobbs on South Street in Philly (R.I.P.). The show was sold out in advance, but I sat outside the door for 4 hours hoping to pay cash and get in somehow. Never happened, and I never got to see Kurt live.
How about Nirvana live at Peaches Records on 45th Ave in Seattle's U-District in 1991. Just in the right place at the right time, I guess. Turning 21 in Seattle in 1991 definitely made my life special.
Believe it or not, I have a Social Distortion CD and like it when I'm in a kick ass mood.
Anyway, I've never been big on arena rock but have seen lots of acts in small clubs, primarily in the Providence and Boston area.
My favorite was Lone Justice fronted by Maria McKee around the time their first album came out in 1985 or so. It was at Lupo's Heartbreak Hotel in Providence. She walks on stage in this little print dress you figure a farm girl would wear and starts with "East Of Eden". When she got to "Sweet Sweet Baby" everybody was going crazy. She was also great a year later after her other album with Lone Justice came out. Check out Amazon.com. Both CDs are on sale for $7.
Another good one at Lupo's about that time was David Johansen, ex New York Dolls frontman, who later transformed to Buster Poindexter. He and his band had terrific stage presence. They have a live CD on Amazon real cheap that is terrific (mine is on vinyl).
A couple of years ago I saw the BoDeans at House of Blues. They are a solid band and I enjoyed the show.
I love(d) Lone Justice and I love Maria McKee. I practicly wore the grooves off of the firts LJ album back in college. I never saw the band live, but I did see Maria McKee in Boston twice. She was incredible, but didn't sing any Lone Justice tunes.
"Shelter" is one of my absolutely favorite songs. I also really loved her "acting" debut in Robbie Robertson's video for "Somewhere Down the Crazy River", which coincidentally for you, has the BoDeans singing backup.
A Maria McKee nugget you might not be aware of is her contribution to the Victoria Williams' benefit album, Sweet Relief. Maria sings the title track. If that song doesn't put a smile on your face and help shake the blues away you should just go back to bed.
Regarding Maria McKee, I wonder if you saw one my brother missed in Boston. About seven years ago she sang off one of her solo albums (I have two and they are great) for free during the lunch break at the South Station Subway Stop! My brother works nearby at MIT and he didn't know about it and tore his hair out when he found out.
I was able to grab the Sweet Relief song off Napster and just finished playing it. Classic McKee for sure. Did I commit a sin or have admission to two concerts and four CDs been enough of a payment for her singing?
As your compensation for the download, you should donate a buck to PETA. She is a militant animal-lover. It was about 7 years ago that I saw her in Boston in support of her first solo album.
I, too, saw her show for free, but it was in a small club. The only reason it was free for me was because a classmate invited me as thanks for helping her in our finance class.
It was a great freeroll since the reason I helped her in the first place was because she was so cute.
That Napster thing actually sounds pretty cool for one-off instances like this. I might even see if I can download Bruce Springsteen's version of "Trapped" from the We Are the World album. I lost my tape and would be too embarrasssed to buy a new one, even if it could be found.
The Clash-Hollywood Paladium, 1981.
Talking Heads/English Beat-Hollywood Paladium, 1980.
Talking Heads-Pantages Theatre (for the filiming of the "Stop Making Sense" show, yes, I was in the crowd.)
U2 at the Woodstock nightclub in Anaheim, Cal. right after their first album "Boy" was out.
HORDE show in Denver at Fiddlers Green, 1997. Line up was Neil Young, Squirrel Nut Zippers, Toad the Wet Sprocket, Primus, Big Head Todd and the Monsters.
The Cure, Whiskey A Go-Go, Los Angeles, early 80's.
Joe Strummer and the Mescalerro's (sp?) Ogden theatre, Denver, 1999.
Holy shit, I'm jealous. Looks like I was born about 2 or 3 years too late for a few of my favorite bands. The English Beat OPENING in 1981? They ruled then. I would trade all the Foreigner/Styx/etc shows I went to when I was 14 in 1981 for somebody to kick me in the ass and tell me that when I was an adult the English Beat and Clash would be my two favorite bands. What a waste.
The Mike Tait Band, every other Saturday night, The Red Lion, Greenwich Village, New York.
The best cover band going on Bleecker Street. As with all great cover bands, Mike's exquisite and eclectic taste makes every show differentand memorable. From Radiohead to Wilco to Neil Young to Stones to Pink Floyd to Nirvana.
He even does a signature piece that fuses a more rocking version of "Like a Rolling Stone" with the the Violent Femmes.
Over the past 6 years, when in need of a live rock fix, I've seen this guy more than any other band, by a mile.
Dirty Three in Seattle and Bellingham, WA--1996, 1997, 1999, 2000. My personal favorite live act, they never fail to impress and elicit more emotion from me than any other music.
Fugazi 10th Anniversary Show, 1997. Ten years to the day at the same venue (Latin American Cultural Center in DC) as their first show. Incredible. Hearing Guy talk about his experience as an audience member at the first and guitarist 10yrs. later was special.
Numerous Mudhoney shows in Seattle 1991-2000. Even the show I saw only a month ago was as fresh as some from the "Superfuzz Bigmuff" days. These guys play with tons of heart and still love to rock.
Jesus Lizard in at the 3-B in Bellingham, 1998. Banned from Seattle because David Yow likes to jump into the crowd (ooooh, scary) they treat WA state fans to a great show in a smaller town and smaller venue than usual.
Buzzcocks at the Fenix in Seattle, 2000. They may be 50ish now but these Brits still play awesome punk rock with a freshness and energy not even matched by many up and commers. I got punched for throwing some frat guys hat after he'd elbowed about every girl in the pit, but the bouncer was nice enough to let me stay until the end.
GarageShock 1995 at the 3-B in Bellingham. Four day garage/surf festival hosted by Estrus Records. Bands included Lord High Fixers, The Nomads, The Makers, The Mono Men, Man or Astroman and others from Europe and Japan. Southern Culture on the Skids closed the last night and covered the floor in fried chicken. Unforgettable.
Built To Spill shows around the time of the release of "There's Nothing Wrong With Love". Doug Marsch might be the best pop songwriter of my generation.
Reverend Horton Heat at the Off Ramp in Seattle, 1991. Just after his debut album on Sub Pop came out. The best, loudest, punkest rockabilly ever.
Dead Moon, anytime, anywhere. This husband-wife (and friend on drums) have been rocking the Pacific NW for over 30 years and still only play small clubs for the love of rock and roll. Their originals are vintage hard rock and they always throw in some Zeppelin and AC/DC covers for good measure. No rock band I know of has more soul and integrity.
Max Roach at the PAC in Bellingham, 1997. The man who invented bebop drumming played on his 70something birthday--solo. 40 minutes of virtuoso drumming by a true master of his instrument. Highlighted by a 4 minute song played only on highhat (and stand).
Mingus Big Band in NYC 1998. If you ever go to the Big Apple go check this band out. They play a weekly gig in the Village somewhere (I forget the name) and keep Mingus's legacy alive for those of us a bit too young to have seen the man himself. Incredibly loud and passionate.
The Briefs--Xmas 2000
Melvins in B'ham--1998
Endfest 1997--Mudhoney, Helmet, Social Distortion, L7 and Beastie Boys. Probably forgetting others
Versus in B'ham 1995
Bad Brains in Cleveland 1989
Many shows 1991-1997 that I can't seem to remember right now.
lotta good shows, my two cents worth...
*Dunc, there are Americans who know Tragically Hip, but I used to be involved with a Canadian woman so I may not count*
Capitol Theater, NY Feb 18, 1971 Princton, NJ, April 17, 1971 Red Rocks Ampitheater, July 8, 1978 Nassau Colliseum with Branford Marsalis, March 29, 1990 Buckeye Lake Ohio, July 1, 1992 (only the second set though with James Cotton and Steve Miller)
Most Dave Mathews shows when they were still playing dives around Charlottesville, VA , before they started getting a lot of play and playing to it. They could jam.
And all shows I ever saw with the afformentioned Springsteen or The Who.
I would have loved to have seen Soundgarden right after Ultramega OK, and Mudhoney after their first(?) SubPop LB; you know, the one with Here Comes Sickness and By Her Own Hand.
It's a little embarrassing to admit now, but one of the best shows I ever saw was Danzig in 1991 in Flint Mi. I recognize his limitations, but goddamn that was a show.
Don't know where you live, but seeing Mudhoney may not be out of the question. I saw them here only a bit ago and they were not shy about playing all their hits, like "Touch Me I'm Sick", "Here Comes Sickness," "Flat Out Fucked", etc.. They still love to perform. Real pros with attitude and talent.
I never did see Soundgarden. I think they made a pretty quick leap from club to arena, and I shy away from the latter.
>>Bad Brains in Cleveland 1989<<
Jesus Christ, am I jealous. They were superhuman during the Quickness/I against I years.
Just between us, this show made the list for reasons besides the music. Afterward, I got laid for the first time at a party that some of the Bad Brains guys came to. What a killer night.
well, I'm glad you kept that just between us. I won't tell a soul.
Rolling Stones (first farewell tour) and ZZTop in the Houston Astrodome, 1981.
Sonny and Cher, 1972, L.A. Coliseum. Hearing "Half Breed" live restored my then shaken faith in this daring duo.
The Osmonds, 1973, Phoenix Memorial Coliseum (where, as Jim can attest, most of the best concerts took place, in between Roadrunners games). "Crazy Horses" absolutely kicked ass.
The Cowsils, 1969, Scottsdale Stadium. "Indian Lakes" absolutely shook the structure. Not an eye was dry during "Flower Girl".
The Archies, 1970, Hollywood Bowl. Hearing their live rendition of "Sugar, Sugar", simply redefined American music in the minds of all who attended.
Paper Lace, 1974, Shea Stadium. Who could ever think of rock music without thinking of them singing "The Night Chicago Died?" after hearing them do it live?
Blind Faith, 1970 (?), Phoenix Memorial Coliseum. Whoa, how'd they get in there?? But seriously, my sister saw them. Now that's a collector's item.
"Sonny and Cher, 1972, L.A. Coliseum. Hearing "Half Breed" live..."
Heh, I should mention that this was an early, rough version of "Half Breed", some years before Cher recorded the polished song as a solo hit. Yeah, that's the ticket.
I enjoyed your post but if your sister saw Blind Faith, It was not in 1970 :-)
You're right. I found a website on them. It shows that she saw them on exactly 8/23/69. Interesting site:
Police - 1982. Pacific Coliseum, Vancouver. Unreal. Sting, Copeland et al were amazing.
Violent Femmes - 1985. Commodore Ballroom, Vancouver. My first mosh experience.
Echo and the Bunnymen - 1985. Vancouver. Echo had just proclaimed himself better than everyone else, "especially Mick Jagger".
The Clash / Rolling Stones - 1980. Seattle. The Clash blew the Stones away. Good enough on their own to make this list.
Fishbone - 1991? - Commodore Ballroom, Vancouver. Top-notch ska for several hours. Before their "metal ska" days.
The Specials - 1996 - San Diego. A great show.
The Cramps - 1988? Commodore Ballroom, Vancouver. Lux in fine form.
Lloyd Cole and the Commotions - 1989. Eighty-Six Street, Vancouver.
Save the best for last.....
Any one of about thirty Tragically hip shows that I have seen. The best being at the House of Blues in Hollywood last year.
I bet they sucked. Major labels and the big music industry can fuck off! Later.
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That has inserted pictures of other people in Sklansky and Malmuth's "Visit the professor" section? Charlize Theron warns me "Dont be misled by the short run", while Dave Letterman talks to me about the importance of playing many hours.
I used to get out of the house more, but then I started playing at Paradise.
I'm looking for a very attractive female poker companion who has a strong mind and heart linked with groovy personality. Am I asking for too much? Or, anyone like this exist? Please do not respond if your are over the age of 70 because my grandmother plays texas holdem very well. If you have a good professional career,good looking and like to travel playing poker. Hey, what do you got to lose. I can offer and provide the same. If you have kids just forget about it! Age preference (27-35). Take the chance for the funny romance.
You would definitely fit you name.
POOR Oh, star?
cannot take it any more...taking off for tunica...call in sick on the way...gl
The AMA has released a new study that shows a direct correlation between anonymous 2+2 posters and the strange, and thankfully rare, phenomena that they have classified as "micro-genitalia".
I posted this at the bottom of a thread earlier... but got no response..
I might be a little dumb, but.... why when its struggling to attract customers... would the Strat close its poker room..?. which seems to be one of the few successes in this establishment.
Because they don't look at the big picture.
They claim that the reason for closing the room is that they want to put in something more profitable. Perhaps true, but like I said, I don't think that they are looking at the big picture.
Just as greed can do in some players, it has done in some casinos too. I'm not saying that closing a poker room will ever force a casino to close. I'm just saying that trying to get too greedy can sometimes be detrimental, not only to the long term effectiveness of players but of bussinesses too.
Keith, there is a finite number of players in Las Vegas who play poker. There are a zillion low limit card rooms all over town. This town cannot support all of them especially since hold'em and stud are played extensively now in other parts of the country like California. Just to give you one small example. In Primm, Nevada which is right on the boundary line between California and Nevada there is a poker room in one of the casinos. Players from Victorville, Barstow, and other parts of California just drive in and play there rather than travelling the extra 30 miles to play in Vegas. You have a similar situation in Mesquite, Nevada which is close to the Utah border on I-15. Players from Southern Utah simply play in Mesquite rather than driving another 80 miles to play in Vegas.
Just for the record. After the Strat closes,there will be 10 rooms on the stip, 4 rooms downtown, and 9 rooms off strip( off downtown also) that only spread low-limit (below 10-20). Some of these rooms are run very well,some very poorly.I should know,I have played in all them many times. IMHO the Strat was one of the better run rooms in town.
Well, the simple fact that poker rooms do not make money is probably behind it.
As far as I know, the Strat never really had a thriving poker room. I remember playing there a little over a year ago. There was no game in the afternoon. They would have tourneys every night, and the side action would run during these tourneys and for a few hours after, but the games seemed to break up by 2AM.
Also, the limits were small so they didn't get the spill over into the pit the way the Mirage and Bellagio do.
>>Well, the simple fact that poker rooms do not make money is probably behind it. <<
I disagree. They do. Does Commerce make money? Does Hollywood Park make money? Does Oceanside make money?
I am manager of a small room in Illinois. I have the luxury of working for one of the finest CEO's in the business. He understands the value of residual play obtained from a poker room. Unforturately when I left Las Vegas some years ago, the trend was, and still is, geared toward tournament play which nets the casino ziltch in residuals. The bean counters are all about square foot income. A poker room that can't stand on it's own does not stand much of a chance in any area. Poker is now, and I believe, always will be an enhancement to any casino if it is run properly, and the right games and limits are targeted. Just a thought.
So what you are saying is that there is no residual value to be obtained from a poker room on Friday nights when a casino is restricted to a limited number of gaming positions?
Makes sense from a bottom line business standpoint (not to mention when you're the only game in town). But to tell poker players that their business is welcome on Wednsday night when we are slower, but not on Friday nights because we are busier then and don't need you, somehow doesn't seem the best way to treat a customer. Even if such a customer is not as valuad as the suckers at the tables and slots.
For the record the Stratosphere poker room has been in the black since Nov. Before Nov the poker room had always lost money.
just wondering if someone out there had some enthusiastic recommendations for fantasy/adventure type computer games.
I like time stradegy games when I am not playing live poker at the Mirage or Belligio Iam still wired after playing so I come home and play any of the Command and Conquor games sometimes it takes me three days to beat a level. I have found for me to enjoy the games I buy the cheat book that tells you the best way to beat a game to me it isn't fun to get stuck at some level and have to spend 20.00 bucks on their online charge hot line asking for hints. Good luck with games Herb
yeah, the addy is paradisepoker.com
A ten handed 10-20 hold'em game is taking place somewhere in America. What are the chances that the next person to post the big blind is adequately bankrolled for the game he is playing in?
a). What if this player plays more than once per week?
Just speculation, but I would guess that at least 6 out of 10 of the players are adequately bankrolled, and probably more than that. A 10-20 BR isn't that large.
The more often a player plays, the less likely they have the BR. This is because the person who plays less WORKS for a living and makes a lot more money than the 10-20 grinder.
I almost asked the question for 10-20 AND higher. But I suspect that there is less of a gray area for limits 20-40, 30-60 and higher. I would think most players at these limits are either winning players or wealthy enough players who can easily afford their losses.
I'm surprised you feel the percentage is over 60%. I would have guessed much less (I am not talking about session bankrolls). Even though you less of a bankroll for a game like 10-20, there seem to be more players who can ill afford to be losing a significant portion of their discretionary income and/or savings. I just thought it was a fun question to ask.
I'm not sure what the point of this is, but if you only play occasionally, all you need is enough for that session. Extended play requires an adequate BR, and $10K would be more than enough for 10-20. Most players could scrape that up if they had to, but most don't keep it in a box labeled "Poker Bankroll." That's why I think the percentage is high.
There is no real point. Like I said, it's wasn't a serious question. I'm just interested in poker economics. I see more and more players playing on a regular basis who clearly are losing players. Many of these players are too young to have retirement funds, large nest eggs, etc. This leaves discretionary income, savings, borrowed funds and a positive standard deviation to keep them in action. It it were a serious question, I'd have posted it on one of the other 2+2 forums.
Kevin, I can't even believe you asked that silly question. Especially, the part of U.S territory which you play 10-20 TH, the players don't even know what bank roll is. Also, I agree with the guy who posted a response right before me.
Somthing to share.
Umm, if your premise was correct, moonlight, every half decent player would make the trip just to skin the fish.
Never underestimate your opponents. They'll end up spending all your money, and foolishly too.
Desire, I agree with you totally. It has ocure to me often on a lower limit. Dummies would take my money and distribute it to others. Hey, your response to rounder was quite funnier than usual.
What does bank roll mean?
That's what I'm taliking about?
Obviously, you don't need to know because you're a good player midnight M.
This thought has puzzled me and so I am going to just put it out there:
How come you don't move to Harrah's and get into a higher game?
Your skills dictate that you should. You're playing in a 10-20 kamikaze game, taking more hits than you should. I believe a limit higher than the 10-20 is mandated for anyone with your discipline, skill and poker savvy.
I may be wrong, but it would be the first time
I meant it to be a light question, nothing serious, which is why I posted it in "other topics". I think poker economics is a very interesting topic. Especially when you consider all the $$$ which is taken out of this economy every year by the rake.
There are several reasons why I don't play Harrah's regularily. A slightly longer commute, boarding times, and kickoff times which are inconvenient for me (the 7:00pm kickoff is why I cannot participate in the lone 20-40 game which Hollywood offers).
Ironically, another reason pertains to my post. I'm not sure I am willing to allocate the 13-15k I believe would be necessary for me to play 20-40 exclusively. Although this is the least significant reason for me, since if none of my previous issues existed, I would no doubt be willing to do so.
Wow. I didn't think I'd be answering this question so seriously. I might as well go the whole nine yards at this point... Even though I (and everyone else) take more "hits" than we should in a 10-20 game, this is more than offset by the fact we also "make" more bets than we should. Many of these bets could not be made from the better skilled players which you're more likely to encounter in a 20-40 game. So this really isn't a factor at all. See ya soon!
I understand the problem with Harrah's, i.e. the commute, boarding times, etc. But my premise for you graduating to larger games stands. As you know, I play everywhere. There are people I play against in Vegas that do so for a living that are not as skilled nor disciplined as you. Unless family issues are involved, I don't see how you can stay at the 10-20 level. Talented players are rewarded. That is a fact.
When you're playing, I sometimes watch you. I can see that brain a`smokin'. Calculating odds, return value, defining the involved players strengths and weaknesses. Makes me chuckle to watch that serious mien you exude. Always a pleasure to be in your company, Kevin. You are a genuinely sweet person and a joy to give my money too. err...wait..what's wrong with picture?
heh..see ya soon
This is a good "back of the envelope" math question.
90% of players lose. So they can never be adequately bankrolled.
But winning players typically play more often than losers, esp. at 10-20 and higher. Perhaps 30-35% of the time, a winning playing is in any given seat. This percentage will go up as the stakes go up, esp. given the rediculous rakes paid where you play.
Can someone be a winning poker player at age 21 or over and not be able to gather 300 big bets for a 10-20 game? This is $6,000.
If you count things like credit card cash advances and other access to loans, I think 90% of winning players would have this bankroll. Would it be sitting in a checking account? Maybe, but this is not that important. Access to cash is all that's needed, not a fistfull of hundreds.
So, 90-95% of 30% is 28%. That's my guess.
Btw, I think with the rake at your casino, this 30% number is probably too high. If there are 3 winners at the table, the 7 players pay $180 to the house/tips each hour, plus what each of these 3 players win. So if they average winning $10 an hour (pretty conservaive) that's $210/7 or $30 per hour per losing player. This is about $100-$150 per session. Not too many people can keep that up for long.
As you know it poker world is small and words get out quickly. You could be in a different state playing in a poker game and you will always run into somebody or someone whom you don't know personally but some how vaguely heard of that person. Do you know what I dislike the most about common poker players? Their personal insecurities and integrity. We all need to examine this aspect of our lives. Poker is intriging, challenging, and most importantly socially arousing. All walks of life enter the card room and we have the opportunity to meet people whom we normally would not come across in our daily lives. Unless, poker is your professional career. I have run into people with some interesting occupations and I have also ran into people with imaginary occupations, nevertheless I came across people which they believed they were working on the poker tables. Whatever! The main issue here is stop fooling yourselves and do the right thing. I came across a very friendly guy who was in his early 30's. he seemed intelligent and definitely very out going. He befriended players and spoke in a manner as if he really knew the game very well. Occassionally, he would implicitely down play other good players for their action of play so that he could look good front of the others. I guess theirs nothing wrong with that if you don't care but what's so good about that anyway. Not only does this guy have five children and a wife to support but he really relies on poker profit to cope with his responsibility. I probably wouldn't say anything to him to deliverately humiliate him but sometimes we need to check ourselves before we wreck ourselves. By the way, he plays 10-20 limit and he's far from being a pro caliber. I just hope that he would come around to read this post because his mirror on his wall is definitely not telling him the truth. Do yourslf a huge favor, get a job! In fact, get two. Take care of your wife and kids first, then play. Poker will always be around.
Well said ......
The man called rounder. Why do you call yourself rounder or do people call you rounder? I have never seen you in any cardrooms or heard of any guy name rounder. I would of heard of you if you were a bad ass poker player. There are only few reason why someone would be noticed as rounder.
A. You are an infamous poker gru. B. You are a wanna be poker gru. c. You are a fat poker player. d. you are a fat poker player and just gotten fatter. e. you were just hanging around. f. Now, your're just rounding on this web.
What's the deal pickle?
The SPM fond some old documents concerning, The Four Courts of the Royal Flush. It seems that long ago a King and Queen of one of the four courts developed an honor code. The horor code addressed the rules of engagement. The code to the Royal Court went something like this; never engage the enemy alone, go in pairs, and when you have no pair, always take with you one of the Knight's of the House of Aces. They were the fiercest and most flamboyant fighters in the Land of Hold'em.
This old document was not written during the old days of the King & Queen but was handed down form generation to generation until it was finally written down during modern times. The document addresses all types of battle partners and actually shows which are the better fighters.
The House of the Aces have always been fierce flamboyant fighters, their battle history indicates that even one Ace can take on an over powering force and can some how come out the victor. Their leadership is always in demand and there have even been times when peasants have enlisted their services and won battles against even two of the most powerful Kings of The Royal Courts.
In the Land of Chess the King is the most powerful and the Queen has tremendous fighting power, but there is no fierce Ace. This seems confusing until you finally realize the Bishop in chess is actually the counter part of the Ace. Why is the Bishop's power in chess so much less in the Land of Chess? The answer is as obvious as the nose on your face. In The Land of Chess, all battles are fought on an open battle field. In the Land of Poker, many of the combatants are never seen and posturing is common place. Bishop's can't bluff because they can not hide from their adversaries, Aces can.
When ever two Kings join forces the documentation shows that they are very powerful. They are excellent fighters but their real combat readiness comes from their royal ability to recognize their own weaknesses. They rarely beat two Aces fighting together as a team. When Aces are fighting with even a peasant and one of their cousins from the House of Aces shows up during the battle to help, the Kings will always have an Achilles heel when dealing with any Ace from the House of Aces. Yes, the House of Aces are the fierce flamboyant fighters, the minimum requirements for beating them in battle is two Pair.
This Achilles heel effects all of the four Courts of the Royal Flush, it is a genetic weakness for all the royalty. The Queens have it in relationship to the Aces & Kings, the Jacks have it and the weakest of the Royal Courts the Tens have the disease and it has held them back form climbing the social latter in all four of The Royal Courts. The peasants of each court have the illness but they have so many other battle weaknesses the subject is rarely discussed.
In the early stages of battle, raising the steaks when a Royal Pair enters the battle is always the best battle cry. Queens will re-raise the steaks even higher when another combatant increases his investment in a battle first. The reason is obvious, most battles start with aggressive posturing. The Royal Achilles heel motivates them to hide there true identity, hoping their adversaries will believe they hold a higher position in The Court of the Royal Flush.
SPM,...I will continue this essay in the next post, "Documents of Power," Ray Zee requested shorter posts because he needs more posting time...
Oh gawd, SPM..you never cease to amaze me. What an unbridled imagination and true wit you possess! Keep on posting and don't you dare edit them!
the real reason i need shorter posts is that if im reading them outside in the outhouse its 10 below zero and if it takes too long, i stick to the seat. now you wouldnt want that to happen to me would you.
zee- reading your posts in all sorts of places
But Ray, given my limited knowledge of physics, this may be way off the mark, but wouldn't your computer work more efficiently in the outhouse? Way I figure it, the lower temperature means less heat build-up means better performance. Given that you have to read quickly out there to avoid any pants down confrontations with a brown bear, you should be able to take advantage of your computer's newly found performance, and read SPM's longer posts. Just wondering. -2d P.S. how long until the thaw?
Everything is beginning to make sense now.
The new Queeeeeen of the tournament trail!
Seems like she kind of came out of nowhere, I checked out many of my old Card Player mags(from about two and three years back)and I can't find any sign of her in the tournament result sections.
Anyway, I just came from Commerce Casino's L.A. Classic, and sure enough...she'll be at the final table for the $5000 no-limit hold'em main event Sunday afternoon, where first prize is over $186,000!
Good Luck Melissa!
She certainly brings new meaning to the term, "talking your way to victory."
Bonetti finished 5th
There seems to be a large population of players who hate to have their hands showed when another player in the hand or not, wants to see the hand you played. Bad Manners is what you all call it, I disagree with all who harbor this opinion, and will be happy to discuss it with anyone.
Here is a top ten list more worthy of your posting skills, that really are bad manners.
10. Grabbing another players stuff, without asking, just because you want to see it.
9. Leaving the game to play slots for an hour.
8. Return to the game after an hour of slots play, to pick up your chips and then going home.
7. Blaming the dealer for your bad luck, or bad playing which ever fits.
6. Swearing at the table for any reason.
5. Belittling a player who beats your monster hand with rags or a two outer.
4. Giving the player beside you a continuos verbal explanation of the what you thru away that would have won.
3. Slow rolling the winning hand.
2. Ripping cards up because your having a bad day.
1. Throwing the cards at the dealer at 90 miles an hour, because your frustrated.
SPM,...lets discuss these bad manners...
10. Grabbing another players stuff, without asking, just because you want to see it.
z-what do you have on the table that you dont want anyone to see
9. Leaving the game to play slots for an hour.
z-better players do better in shorthanded spots
8. Return to the game after an hour of slots play, to pick up your chips and then going home.
z- see 9.
7. Blaming the dealer for your bad luck, or bad playing which ever fits.
z-who cares who he blames
6. Swearing at the table for any reason.
z-not good form
5. Belittling a player who beats your monster hand with rags or a two outer.
z-- good as that player will play tighter against him and not you
4. Giving the player beside you a continuos verbal explanation of the what you thru away that would have won.
z- just tell him to shut up or lean over like you are listening to his garbage and look at his hand
3. Slow rolling the winning hand.
z-you are going to see it sooner or later
2. Ripping cards up because your having a bad day.
z- gives you new decks
1. Throwing the cards at the dealer at 90 miles an hour, because your frustrated.
z- fun to watch but how did you clock the speed
SPM,...lets discuss these bad manners...
z- you asked for it SPM wearing the mask of miss manners:)
"1. Throwing the cards at the dealer at 90 miles an hour, because your frustrated.
z- fun to watch but how did you clock the speed"
Perhaps this explains the thing on the table he wants no one to touch. I hope.
Ragards...over here cuz i'll go brain dead if I read another fraction of a bet preflop argument.
Having played with SPM many times, I can say it would not surprise me in the least, to one day find a radar gun along side the tip mobile and other paraphernalia the SPM regularily brings to the table : )
Tell George, the Yankees are always on the lookout for another good arm.
As long as he leaves that damn blowup doll at home. Wasn't that embarrassing last time? He sat her there and felt her leg and was speaking dirty to her and all. And her name...that was hilarious, "Cheap Date Darla"
Could somebody please explain to me what is so bad about being slow-rolled? It has never bothered me at all, and it is usually the result of the player not knowing what he has. What difference does it make to you if it takes him a while to realize he has the winner?
If a beginner doesn't realize he has a winner right away, no problem. People complain when it's done to embarass the other players. Last night, playing 6-12 holdem, a player shows down a flush. Three players muck, and the fourth looks as though he will too. The player with the flush smiles, anticipating stacking a nice pot. Then the player says "I have two pair" and shows JJ-JJ. Pretty hard to misread. The only time I saw something comparable was when Bugs Bunny did this to Yosemite Sam "I got a pair of ones, and another pair of ones." Probably where this jerk got the idea.
I don't get it either, there is this guy who I met during a daily tourney. He told me after a hand that he had slow rolled me and apologized, I didn't even notice. Now every time he sees me he apologizes and tells me I'm a nice guy and that he shouldn't have done it. He kept reminding me so often I now call him Slow Roll. "Hey Slow Roll, how's it going?"
#1 ...I am dealt QJoff in a late position , maniac raise , and I call 2bets (i know I should have fold , but I was a begginner in the HE at this time but any way i was playing tight but not enough but more than the average ) , the board come K-T-rag-rag-rag . On the river I was headzup with the maniac after having calling him on the flop nd on the turn and oviously fold on the river. After I have fold , he takes the pot , and throw in my direction 2d-3d for no pair , no draw , and nothing . And saying " That kid is to weak , I could bluff him anytime " . #2 ... I has happen few month later , at this time I was really better . I raise AA , and the same maniac say loudly " That kid got aces it's official ! " , and he calls with 3d6d , board was rag-rag-3-rag-6 . he raises me on the river , and take the pot . Saying again loudly , " You see I have told you that he has aces , those tight player are too much predictable ! " , " Why have you call me if you knew I had aces ? " i asked . He has answered me : " Just to show you that aces are not so good cards ! " ...he was pround of him . Have I mention that this guy usualy lose more than 100BB in 5-10 or 10-20 in every session ?...that was predictable , isn't ?
You know I have come a long way. I have had a mediocre year 2000 and life couldn't get any worse. Now, we are entering last week of February of 2001. I must admit things are getting better in life but I am becoming aloof to the poker sessions I attended on Sunday mornings. I decided to take another route on Sunday morning. I attended a Church service. Why? I don't really know but some greater force has pressed this issue on to me. I enjoyed the morning sermon but I have witnessed something that disgusted me and disturbed me. I actually ran into several regular poker players whom I respected but finding out that they are living a deceptive lives totally turned me off to them as a person. They live a double life. I guess a common word is hypocracy. They lived their lives lying and decieving the congregation and especially to the people that care about them the most. Couple of them even have titles which don't pertain to them. I won't mention any names here but I hope I don't see you guys at the poker table because I will share with others what kind of experience I had at the Sunday B.S.. Bible study/Bull shit.
I do my praying in the woods but I don't mind wherever others might want to do theirs.
jeez, moonlight baby boy, would you rather have run across them in a brothel?
I personally am glad to know that they're going to church. Maybe now they'll stop trying to steal my money. heh
Desire, How can anyone tap you out? You are the comeback Queen with lot of somethin, somethin!
Well, I guess I might as well step up to the plate...I'm a poker playing-church goer. Yep, the embodiment of evil and confusion. I'm going to say something here once and only once. It will get mocked probably 3 dozen times or more.
I am a decent player. I win money. I cannot believe how much money is out there to win. And it pains me, because it could all be put to better causes. So, I put it to better causes. I win, then I give the money to charity. I will probably never move up because of this strategy, but there is enough money in the 9-18, 10-20, 15-30 world that I don't need to move up. I'm not playing to get rich, I'm playing to have fun, and to get money to give away. No, I don't give away all of my profits, just 50% every month. Some months I lose, and then I eat the loss. Other months, I win, and my church is happy. They don't care where the money comes from. Daniel, the 8 year old orphan with AIDS is happy that he may be able to have the medication. I'm not the sole provider, but I do help.
When I'm not at a poker table, I'm at work, or at the Boys and Girls Club. You may see me in a pew on sunday morning, and at a table sunday afternoon. You may want to laugh at me, want to mock me, but I'll smile and say "nice hand" like you cracked my aces with rags. I'm playing good cards, and making the right decisions, at the table and in life. And that's something that doesn't bother me.
I'm 22 years old. I am making good money. And I'm giving it away. Does that make me stupid? Does that make me a fraud? I don't think so. Not everyone knows I play poker, but they do know that I am honest, trustworthy, and caring, and that's enough. Perhaps you would judge me differently, and for this reason, I pity you.
So does Daniel.
"Daniel, the 8 year old orphan with AIDS is happy that he may be able to have the medication"
Give me a break! Man, Chaplin did it better in "The Little Tramp". Not only is he eight, but an orphan too? And then aids ladled on top of all that? Sheesh, what do you take us for, morons????
I don't care if you blow your winnings on booze, broads or biscuits and gravy. But to sit here and say you are only at the poker table because you're driven to scoop the chips of us errant players so that you can distribute it to charity is ... READ MY LIPS...a crock of total bs! Sheesh..some of you guys...
"Give me a break! Man, Chaplin did it better in "The Little Tramp". Not only is he eight, but an orphan too? And then aids ladled on top of all that? Sheesh, what do you take us for, morons???? "
Sorry, Desire, I haven't seen "The Little Tramp". Before my time. As for Daniel...he was born with AIDS (no, he hasn't had an IV drug use before the age of 8), the gift of his now-dead mother, Susan. He has never met his father, and I (falsely?) assume that AIDS has also taken his life. AIDS kills people. When that happens, their kids become orphans. Sorry if that confused you.
"I don't care if you blow your winnings on booze, broads or biscuits and gravy. But to sit here and say you are only at the poker table because you're driven to scoop the chips of us errant players so that you can distribute it to charity is ... READ MY LIPS...a crock of total bs! Sheesh..some of you guys... "
I don't recall saying that I only play poker to distribute to charity. 50%. Remember that number? Go back, read my first post. 50%. It's there. See it? If I said that I only played poker to be Robin Hood, that would be a lie (or "a crock of total bs!" as you eloquently stated).
You don't know me. You've never met me. Nobody on this forum has. And yet you have the audacity and ignorance to call me a liar. Why? I've posted maybe half a dozen messages total in my life here. Why would I bother to lie? If I wanted to lie on a forum like this, I could just try to dream up a latest-and-greatest bad beat story. Why would I lie and subject myself to the stone-throwing of you and others who may be too stubborn to think that people at poker tables have enough compassion to help out others? Obviously, I wouldn't. What I have said is the truth. If you want references, I'd be more than happy to give them to you.
No, I posted just to let people like "Moonlight Kid" know that there are church-going poker players out there who are not ashamed of our "hypocracy". Being able to play phenomenal poker (which I cannot yet do) is a gift. Maybe WSOP champs aren't thanking God, but they should be. Not for the miracle 5 outer on the river, but for the ability that they have been given. What better way to give thanks, than to give back a part of something that has been very fruitful?
You probably still don't believe me. My guess is that 80% of the people that read this either won't believe me, or will think me foolish for giving away money. And 80% of the people that I help would probably (initially, anyways) either not believe me or think it foolish for me to play poker for hundreds and thousands of dollars. A coincidence? Probably.
Where can I find Medium Stakes games (4-8 to 10-20) in the Chicago Area?
Hollywood Casino in Aurora spreads 5-10 and 10-20 HE daily. Great room, run by the inimitable Bob. 20-40 spread on Thursdays and you can call for other feature games. www.hollywoodcasinoaurora.com
awwwwwwww Kevin, i wasn't gonna mention Harrah's to him :(
Harrah's in East Chicago, IN spreads $6-$12, $10-$20 and I believe a $4-$8 hold'em. $6-$12 and lower have jackpots. Usually these games are played with a 1/2 kill. Their number is 219-378-3558.
Hollywood Casino in Aurora, IL spreads $5-$10 and $10-$20 everyday except Fri. when it's $5-$10 and $15-$30. These games sometimes have a straddle button that's not really a straddle because... Well, you'll figure it out when you get there. Their number is 630-801-7471.
As to which are the better games is hard to say. If you're REAL good, I'd highly recommend Harrah's, since I mostly play in Aurora : ) Good luck.
just for you i worked real hard to get this information, bagger. its a product of lots of time and effort on my part.(inside joke)
Hollywood Casino, Aurora, IL Poker Room Phone# 630-801-7471
Everyday, 1-5 Seven Card Stud, Texas Hold'em, 2.50-5, 5-10 & 10-20. Featured games, Monday, 25-50 ½ & ½ starts 2:00pm, Tuesday 15-30 Omaha starts 2:00pm, Wednesday 1-4-8-8 Omaha starts 12:30pm, Thursday 20-40 Hold'em starts 7:00pm, Friday 15-30 Hold'em starts 10:00am, 15-30 Omaha starts 12:00pm.
All Omaha games are high low eight or better. No 10-20 Hold'em on Fridays. The 2.50-5 Hold'em game does not fly on Wednesday & holidays. For more detail ask Uncle Bob the floor boss, he lurks on 2+2.
Go to Harrah's it will be easier on your bank roll. At the Hollywood Casino in Aurora, the fish eat shark. No place for an out of towner. Our fish love out of town shark. Ask the Rounder he won't even drive thru Aurora any more, come to think of it he won't go to Harrah's either.
SPM,...warning signs have been posted...
SPM you got it wrong again - I had 17 wins out of 20 trys at Aurora - I'd tell you my Aurora hourly rate but I don't want you setting up any Voodoo dolls with my picture on them.
I quit going there for a host of reasons - I can't stand incompetance and that is the WORST run room in North America. The dealers suck and the food is miserable. I am at the point in my life where I don't have to do things I don't want to do and playing the "home" game at Aurora is one of them OK!!!
I would love to play there it is 20 miles closer than Harras which sucks too but not as bad as Aurora.
Hope everything's going well for you. I feel a need to stick up for Hollywood at least a little. Many of the "home game" rules which don't make any sense, are due to Illinois gaming laws and have nothing to do with the management. I think Uncle Bob makes the best with what he has to work with. He is also very approachable. When a player doesn't understand why something's gotta be the way it is, he will almost always take the time to explain the reasons behind it and make the player feel his input is appreciated. Have you tried voicing any of your concerns?
As for the dealers, while there might be a few bad eggs, on a whole Hollywood's current dealing staff now rivals Harrah's in competence.
Sorry Kevin but I waited my "last" 4 hours for a seat at a "must move" table I'd rather slide down a 50ft razor blade than play there again.
You guys ought to go out west to see how a casino is run weather it is the backward state laws or bad management - I guess I am just spoiled.
Best Regards, Mike
I must reiterate what Kevin stated. Bob is not only totally approachable to share any of your concerns with, but will explain the logic behind any poker decision made in that room. I had wondered why they wouldn't spread a 15-30 more regularly and asked Bob about it. He explained that until the regulars would sustain the game on a regular basis, he would not forego the 10-20 in favor of it. I most like Hollywood because of the group of players there. Not one mean-spirited person among the bunch. And about the food...well Bob will whisk you up a mean western omelette if you ask real nice and shimmy some cleavage at him.
Beautiful women (with cleveage) do have an edge when it comes to getting "comps" I will agree whole hartedly with you there. :-)
I didn't mention BOB - the long waits for a seat the must moves and the lack of table selection is just a tip of the iceberg.
The "boarding" at Harras is a major pain for me - I live 60 miles from Harras and it is impossible to judge my arrival - one day it took 4 hours to go 60 miles some times I make it in 50 min. Go figure - Chicago bloody traffic.
Then when you get there the game you want is full so you have to play a bloody 1-5 bloody stud for 2 hours until the hold'em seat opens.
S#!T - in Phoenix I could roll out of bed at 3AM stroll into a casino play play 45 min and leave several hundred up - making my nut for the day before sunrise.
Like I said I am probably just spoiled.
I wholeheartedly agree. The riverboat is where I play in between vegas, ac or foxwoods. A couple of friends almost talked me into trying california and I would love to try arizona. I always have adored vegas, but when I go, I usually stay a week to ten days and it's an absolute horror trying to get a 30-60 or 15-30 game in the mornings during weekdays. I can't sleep more than three or four hours when I'm there and so you end up sitting in the card room reading newspapers til they finally drum up a game.
I am assuming that just putting some money in a casino cage is not enough to get a hotel room comp (If I'm wrong, what amount do you have to deposit).
What kind of 21 would one have to be playing to expect a weekend room comp at the Riviera, Circus , Frontier, or similar casino?
it used to be if you had a bunch of cash you got anything you wanted as the dopes figured you would lose it. but the bean counters wised them up and you have to play alot and get rated for comps nowadays. i think the cheaper casinos tend to give rooms for about 25 a hand for 4 hours a day. they have a formula on about what you lose per hour at the stakes you play and the game you are playing at and each joint gives a % of this amount back in comps. just ask the casino in advance and they will tell you or you may waste your time with a joint that wont comp.
finally got to tunica casinos and read article by brier ,had read it earlier on internet, but was disappointed to see NO PICTURE of Jim Brier: does that mean he is actually an amalgam of dave and mason, or is he protecting himself from mobs of admirers?
see dem dares proof that there is no such thing as a jimbrier. but there aint no scarf as well.
scalf, I requested that a picture of me not be included in my column because I do not wish to be a recognizable target when I sit down in a new game at a card room outside Vegas. There are other columnists who have done the same thing for the same or different reasons. Bob Ciaffone would be an example.
ok,OK kepp up the good work...
You would be wrong! I know Lee and he told me a couple of weeks ago I didn't have an "A" game.
SPM,...he was right...
So can you tell me what your name is then? And its funny that Lee told you, that you don't have an A game. What a laugh.
I wasn't laughing when he told me I didn't have and A-game, because my money was gone.
SPM,...at work they call me Basement Man...:-)
But at the HE table they cower in fear as the mighty SPM bellies up to the green felt battleground...go, go go,,,
He's the guy with "Suburban Poker Man" on his baseball cap -
sometimes on his t-shirt too
by Soh Broke
SPM = Suburban Poker Man = SPM = the real name of the one and only SPM. He is the man! The Suburban Man. Yes, the Suburban Poker Man! Many years ago he was born in suburbia. He was raised by his suburbian parents and attended suburban preschool, suburban kindergarten, suburban grammar school, suburban junior high and high schools. He was "all suburban" debater of the year one year and played on the local suburban baseball team. He even named the team, "The Suburban Baseball Team" out of love for his home and the hope of making the name "Suburban" a household word throughtout the suburbs. To his dismay his efforts went unnoticed and suburbia languished in obscurity long after he graduated "Suburban Cum Laude" from The Junior college of Suburbia.
After marrying miss Suburbia 19 something or other he bought his suburban bungalo and proceeded to make "suburban man" children. He was then dubbed "Suburban Man" of the year a few years running and for some odd reason the name stayed with him where ever his travels throughout sububia took him. He truly loved the noteriety and soon his desire to be a suburban legend drove him to greater heights. Wandering out of suburbia one day he came upon a great wall of lights flashing and lighting up the sky with one word. Casino! He walked in and was immediately confronted with what was to become his eternal trademark. The Poker room! He took one look at two cards and knew the reason for his existence. He would bring Poker to the Suburbs. The rest is history. Poker is now the most played game in the suburbs with making out with the next door neighbors wife running a distant second. And we owe this all to the Suburban Poker Man. So when you see him and see him you must remember to call him by his REAl Name "Suburban Poker Man". Of course,if you are real nice, he will answer to SPM.
I am interested in hearing your opinion of the two things a player should do more of (in order) to improve poker playing. 1. 2. Will post me choices and reasons below. Dave
My choices are: 1. Fold more 2. Raise more
Reasons. I learned poker from books with very minimal playing experience. I think this may tend to make a new player play a bit weak/tight. Unless it's just me. Folding more resulted from understanding the reading better as a result of experience. Have more experience reading other hands. Raising more is coming to me as I now see how my good hands may have a short lifespan against too many oponents. Thanks for your responses. Dave
1. Bet the winners. 2. Muck the losers.
1) Bet and raise more/Check and call less.
2) Play less hands out of position.
1. watch other players and understand how they play and what their actions are most likely to mean..2.call less...gl
1st advise :Stop to play loose when winning big , and stop playing loose when losing big . 2nd advise : don't protect your blind , keep your money for better hand
When you see an average of 2 or 3 players on the flop in a game stand up and leave the game even if you wanted to played poker that night !...keep your money for better game .
1: OJ Simpson (alive)
2. Jeb Bush
3. Willaim Shatner
4. Monica Lewinsky
5. Donald Trump
6. Tori Spelling
7. Johnnie Cochran
8. Saddan Hussein (alive)
9. Jerry Springer
10. Linda Tripp
How about the 1st liar clinton and his battle ax wife.
You can take Linda and Jeb off my list and add these two loathsome liars.
How can you possibly take Linda Tripp off the list. She transpires politics. Linda Tripp is the embodiment of evil no matter where you stand politically.
That was my thought when I read Rounder's post too. She betrayed a friemd. No way she's coming off any list of mine.
Sorry Frank but she is a national hero and the most misunderstood person in the country.
A hero? Deceitfulness means heroism?
Explain the misunderstood part.
I agree with the "embodiment of evil", although I believe that you meant to say that she "transcends politics..." If everyone had a friend like her, who would need an enemy?
I would have to also say Linda Tripp's parents for giving birth to her.
Illustrate how uninformed most Americans are about her situation which led to the taping of her converstaions with clinton's young girlfriend.
She was being asked to lie under oath better known as perjury - she was scared of the ruthless clinton administration who was well known for destroying (specially) womens lives and reputations. Now she is being asked to lie bu Monica and her Bo.
She did it in self defense - friends don't ask friends to lie under oath.
You guys don't know shit from clay - all you know is what the clinton lying machine put out about her - they would have done the same thing to Monica if it weren't for the stain on the dress. Remember they were starting the "stalker" spin when the stain came out.
Come on guys the clintons are as bad as a mafia organization - the most corrupt president in history.
Linda was up against it ans did what most smart people would do.
Linda Tripp did the country a service.
It's a cross between her beautiful face, those nice big teats, and all that $$$ she's going to get when daddy kicks the bucket, which by the looks of him could be any day now. Shwing! [aren't I charming?]
Put the bong down..nice and easy..and no one will get hurt.
Tori Spelling hot??? Sheesh you're delusional, my man!
I have to admit, when I see her nice big beautiful teats, I do get a little "delusional."
You MUST get off the farm, babyboy. You dun sheared one too many sheep. Once you step outside the ovine crowd we refer to them as "breasts", not teats. Baaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhd boy, Dan
I hate the word "breasts", it sounds so damn clinical. I prefer T!ts.
I love the top ten lists threads.
In chronological order.
1) The referee in the 5th grade private-school basketball league who
right before tipoff in my first league game ever asked "is everybody
ready," and when out of nervousness, I said "hold on a sec," yelled
"TIMEOUT - BLUE."
2) Mrs. van Buskirk - gradeschool math teacher. Spent all day talking
about her love for Richard Burton, Three Mile Island and the time she
was on American Bandstand when she was 14.
3) The guy at the bus stop who offered me a ride home in 9th grade
telling me he was a friend of my father and my father had sent him
to pick me up.
4) Ms. Harris - highschool Latin teacher. Never should've been a
5) ASU 1985 summer school math grad student teacher. He gave me a B even
though I aced every test just because I didn't go to his boring lectures.
6) The manager at Spaghetti Company who fired me shortly after my
mother died because "you're not as fun as you used to be."
7) The prosecutor in the hit and run case for the guy who hit my car
when it was parked outside of Pete Ceppenetti's game in Tucson.
Incompetent. The defendent said at one point on the stand "I've never
seen that car," and later "I sold that car," yet the prosecutor never followed
up on it and the guy was absolved.
8) The police officer who pulled me over driving from Tucson to Vegas for "weaving"
in 1990 who asked me how much money I was carrying.
9) Guy who ran the redlight from a standing idle in August of 1995,
rearranging my whole life.
10) Woman from Char's Has the Blues I went home with in 1995 who went
psycho cause I didn't call her for two days when I was sick as a dog.
I feel better now.
Great list, Jim! And am sorry about #'s 3, 6 and 9.
What about Jerry, he is a good guy never did any harm and he has provided me with lots of entertinement along the way. I say take him off the list and replace him with any teenie bopper band. They are far more annyoing and have destoryed good musical taste in thousands of kids. enjoy AM
1) My Father the rotten bastard.
2) Sister Albion my 5th grade sister who beat me every day. If I held up me arms to block her punches she would hit me harder.
3) SSgt Sparks my DI at MCRD SanDiego - he was busted to Sgt and removed from our platoon because of abuse of troops - he didn't allow those who didn't pre qualify on the rifle range to eat breakfast. In those days (mid 60's) there was only a few things that a DI couldn't do - Deprive marines of their mail, food and kill one on purpose. BTW I never missed breakfast but this guy was a piece of work.
4) My 1st mother-in-law I hope she is dead by now.
5) Ray Wantuchowicz
6) Sister Adrian - my 7th grade sister who beat me with a steal edged ruler - I still have the scars on my hands 43 years later - I took the blame for Linda Luciana writing on a desk, Linda was a beautiful girl who was the 1st in a line of beautiful women who caused me a lot of pain.
7) Monsenior Cousins - out head priest at Our Lady of the Angels - he let the fire inspectors "recommendations" go and out school burned down killing almost 100 -
8) The asshole who started the school fire - he is a truck driver living in SoCalifornia - he was to young to prosecuite for the fire in 1958.
9) Any Catholic priest or nun. I quit religion.
10) The big fat Lisbon Police Capt who led 6 other cops in an attack on me on Sep 16, 1985.
WOW - and there are a bunch more I don't have room for.
So when I few nasty and rude - give me a break I have had a hard life.
Sounds like a tough life. The only real question is "did you score with linda, the girl you took the beating for?"
We moved to the subs shortley after the fire.
Maybe I can look her up now it's easy on the net. :-)
BTW - I don't look at it as a tough life just a life with evil people woven through it, most not by invitation.
ok I know that this probably gets asked at least once a weak on here. but I am going to las vegas for the first time in a couple of weeks. since I only have 4 days there I was wondering how does one sort the wheat from the chaff. there is so much to do and so little time, where should i eat (free to cheap is my price range) what shows are worth the money. and most importantly where should I play. I am mostly looking for good low limit holdem, low limit lowball (a-5) and maby a low blind no limit or pot limit game, one with a 100 to 200 dollar recomended buy in. any answers will be appreciated.
Lance Burton at the Monte Carlo is the best bang for the buck IMHO.
Although not cheap, the Aladdin buffet is great. We've ate there seven times in the past two weeks. Cheap food is not as cheap as it was in the not too distant past but most of the hotel coffee shops have some graveyard specials. Ask the food server about them because they are not always listed in the menu.
If you play at Binion's,a daily $8 food comp is easy to get (the best poker comp in town). I almost always use my $8 to get a good meal at the deli.
The Excalibur has 2-6 hold'em. They also bring out free food Mon-Fri at 4:00pm. This is good because when it comes to cheap food, you can't beat free !
3.Small blind No-Limit
With the Strat closing in a few days, the talk is that Binion's will start spreading it on March 2nd.
4.Lowball and Hold'Em
You are not going to find a lowball game but there are planty of places that deal low limit hold'em. Excalibur,Mirage,Binion's,and Mandalay Bay are a few of the places where I have done well. Your milage may vary.
MG - if you haven't been there before you must see the card room at Binions - the food is good too - be sure to try the deli next door by the sports book.
The games can be good too. I like the Friday night action. You can also find games down the street at the Plaza.
Far as shows I've been there over 100 times since 1966 when I was staioned at MCAS Yuma and never saw a show -I am a horrable tourist - I was in New Delhi and didn't bother seeing the real Taj.
Play the Bellagio and Mirage, ask for a buffet comp. Go see Mystere`. All other shows over-priced for what they deliver. I might spring for a Siegfried and Roy ticket, but only on the off-chance that Siefried will finally succomb on the stage.
I hated Mystere',thought it was awful. A shame for I had front row seats. And at $80 a tickit not exactly a lot of bang for the buck.
But.....different stroke for different folkes.
food: try the steak & shrimp for $5.95 at the
hard rock...it's not on menu..ask wait staff
san remo has prime rib for $5.95
poker: binions, mirage, bellagio, and orleans
free shows:bellagio water fountain,
pirate battle at treasure isle
watching the guy trying to hand
out the porn books(at the IP)
You gamble. Forget that other crap.
The best show I saw was James Brown at MGM. Check to see who is playing, you'll find somebody you'll like. Play in the low buy in turnys, their fun.
I'm going to be out in Vegas in a week or so on business, but I'm planning on extending my trip about 4 days. Where is the best place to get a poker rate for a room for those days? I plan to play b/w 10-20 and 30-60 holdem and possibly some in the no limit game(now at Binions).
Chuck, Mason and David,
This is your site and you have every right to solicit ad revenue from whoever you want. I know that doing so is necessary to keep this great site going.
Still, as an atheist, I cannot withhold my objection to ads for Belief.net (I think that is the name of the advertiser) that feature Christian iconography. I find these ads to be divisive due to their association with religion in general and only one of the great monotheistic faiths in particular.
People visit this site to talk about poker. I say keep Jesus out of it.
I personally dislike the whole christian ideal thing too but I wont say I'm an atheist (I have witnessed some unbelievable things involving witchcraft). Anyway regarding advertising, why does it matter who they take ads from? I may dislike the product or whatever is being peddled but who cares? Just ignore it like any other ad that has nothing of interest to offer.:-) later, Kris
even though you claim to be an Atheist your attitude is no different than the religious fanatics. Shame on you for asking that the adds be removed. I have no doubt that catholics find condom adds to be divisive or that fundamentalist muslims find anything from western pop culture to be divisive or that born again christians find everything to be divisive. the list is endless of narrow minded groups who find various ideas to be devisive. I was under the mistaken impression that Atheists were more enlightened and not so weak minded as to think that anyone could actually be influenced in a meaningful way by crappy little banner ad.
I was very careful NOT to say take them down. I said I felt the need to object; that is all. They can do whatever they want. I think the way to approach differences of opinion is with more speech, not less. That is why I posted it.
I do not buy your or Goat's approach, which I summarize as "If it bugs you keep your mouth shut and ignore it". I have an opinion on the matter and choose to open a line of communication. I don't think that is fanatical. I will always be on the side of more protest, as opposed to everyone keeping quiet.
"People visit this site to talk about poker. I say keep Jesus out of it."
"I was very careful NOT to say take them down."
Well what exactly were you saying? I can understand why you might be opposed to religion in general or even certain religions. If the banner ads prompted you to voice your dissatisfaction with particular religious institutions and the havoc they create, good for you. But, I really got the sense that you were opposed to the banner ads themselves because they were promoting a certain religion and this is a view that I find quite suffocating and pedantic. I can disseminate any (dis)information just fine by myself and as such I don't need Mason or anyone to remove the adds.
What I wanted to say was "given my preference, I would choose that twoplustwo.com did not feature ads that advocate religion". That is different than "I hate these ads, get rid of them!" There are many things that I oppose and would not like to see featured here (handguns, for instance). I feel that as a frequent user of this site (and viewer of the ads) I have an obligation to register my feelings. In this case, it appears I am firmly in the minority. So be it. I just wanted to add my 2 cents.
against guns huh?
now its certain youre a commie.
was there ever any doubt?
Am curious, have you delved into their site? It is an awesome site. Am curious about buddhism and they have wonderful information, including essays, spiritual centers, etc listed there. You are painting a picture of them being stone religious. They seem to be guilty of only believing in the power of something greater than the self. You should probe their site before labeling them out of hand. I, for one, have found it to be a bedrock of information and am thankful for being turned on to them.
I'll admit that I reacted without doing any research into the site. It is certainly more multidemoninational then I thought. Still not my cup of tea and I would prefer not to see religious things advertised on this site.
This is America and everything is really evolved around Economics. What better place is there to advertise belief.net then here? You think that corporate america is dumb? These capitalist will do anything to make a buck. It's all about business.
Besides, little of spiritual enlightment couldn't hurt anyone. Even the Athiest.
Isn't it interesting how they would choose this forom to advertise their material? There must be a huge bullseye target on every gamblers head for some spiritual guidance. it didn't help me any when I went to church last Sunday. However, I didn't lose any money. I actually donated this time. Have good one>
The ads that you see at the top of this site are supplied by an advertising broker About.com. There are certain types of ads that they agree not to post, such as pornography, but their Belief Net is not one of them.
For those who don't know About.com maintains a very large number of web pages on all sorts of different topics. This includes their religion pages which feature many different religions, including a page for atheists. ALso, there are hundres of links to many other sites. So, whatever your view point is it should be there. So I don't see a problem.
You may want to check out http://atheism.about.com/religion
Thanks for the input and explanation. As I stated above, I was not seeking any action but merely wanted my feelings heard.
Keep up the good work and thanks again for a great site.
"This includes their religion pages which feature many different religions, including a page for atheists. "
And just what is the name of the religion that them atheists follow? That should be an interesting one. Bet it has the lowest EV.
KJS, you are not alone.
ill admit that KJS has brainwashed, er, i mean enlightened me on many subjects.
mason, please remove all photos of guns from your books, otherwise KJS and i will be forced to sue you.
No one has pointed out that actually bits of that site are very funny (even intentionally on occasion). I clicked on it on a bored Friday afternoon and a couple of their quizzes kept us amused for some time (whiling away the hours until 5-30)
As a non-religious person, I am not at all offended by these ads. I don't pay any more attention to them than to any of the other banners on this site. I beleive that freedom of religion is one of the things this country stands for, and that includes the freedom not to believe also. As far as the adveritsing goes, religion is big business, and Beliefnet has as much right to cash in on it as anyone else.
One thing I am thankful for is that a WSOP champ has not (as of yet) thanked the lord for helping him win the tournament (a la professional athelets).
If Doyle ever plays and wins again, he might.
As an atheist I object to this objection.
I encourage the promotion of superstition, fallacious thinking, and mythology in any non-government endorsed way, shape and form. This is because the quality of my life shares a direct relationship to the quantity of other minds infected with religion. I appreciate having my cup of coffee filled, my toilets cleaned, my fruit picked, and my trash picked up by other people. Doing these menial things myself would compromise the quality of my life, by there being fewer hours with which I could be involved in some sort of recreational or creative fulfillment, maximizing the quantity and degree of my positive conscious experiences, i.e. the Meaning of Life (tm). Those who are content with back breaking, indignant work for minimum wage, are so because they believe that after they die they'll be whisked off to a Disneyland in the sky where all the injustices they suffered will be righted somehow. They believe they have a special cosmic purpose and destiny. Satisfied by these delusions, there's no hunger or desire motivating them to improve themselves or otherwise do something about their wretched conditions. Religion is their rationalization, and I encourage these rationalizations because I don't want to have to make my own coffee or lose the income that these poor saps provide. I don't need any fuss from my Jesus loving employees who begin to realize that earning six dollars while producing thirty dollars for me is a grievous injustice correctable only by revolutionary means. I don't need the rabble to start making noise, I quite enjoy the way things are. I even went out and bought Bibles for the break room and for the lobby of the rent-by-the-week motel that I own. As my good buddy Napoleon said, religion keeps the poor from murdering the rich. Viva religion, and more banner ads for it please.
Sigmund, your post is so wrong. People don't clean toilets because they like it, they do, because that is the job they have at that moment to cover they needs at that time. No one is born to be a toilet cleaner. You are an atheist because you are strong and don't need help from the super natural. Most of the people in this world are weak and need help and they get it in religion. Religion is a bussiness, and all churches will keep it that way till the end of time. You must feel sorry for all those that believe the Pope is a Saint. Atheism must make you a better man, not an angry man. I like to have people do certains things I would not do, but I pay a fair price for the service. You seem to feel superior to anybody that will do a job that you will not do. If you have employees and you don't pay them a fair price for their labor is nothing for you to be concern about. You my try selling cocaine to minors, in the High School in your area, Or bring illegal inmigrants to do your domestic needs, or you may get in prostitution and be a pimp. See where the most profit will come from. You will not be the only human being on this earth doing it. Exploit people. That is a good bussiness for you.
or whoever the hell you are, the rancor in your post says more about you than those satisfied by their delusions. You've read a little Marx, perhaps, and can name the other ideological state apparatuses that keep people content. Sure, it's a long list--the American dream of upward mobility, religion, belief in the autonomous self, education. (Of course, you might wonder a bit how these forces can be so pervasive; after all, the elect see through them easily.) Whereas social theorists write about these matters in hopes of helping others, perhaps through various forms of radical, liberatory pedagogy, you use your insights as justification for continued repression.
I may be misreading your post--could you be an ironist?--but I don't believe I am. So, keep on "maximizing the quantity and degree of [your] positive conscious experiences; i.e. Meaning of Life (tm)." God, after reading that again, maybe you're not an atheist, at least not like one I've ever seen.
"I may be misreading your post--could you be an ironist?--but I don't believe I am."
Irony - 1 : a pretense of ignorance and of willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other's false conceptions conspicuous by adroit questioning -- called also Socratic irony.
Ironist- someone who uses irony.
we know you aren't the ironist because there is no pretense of ignorance.
btw- Sigmund Fraud is not an ironist
I think SPM needs a sidekick. All great Superheroes have one; Robin,Kato,Superboy/girl, etc. I'm nominating myself as the biggest sucker / fish at HCA. Carpboy lives! Nominations are now open and SPM can pick the best.
SPM is not a superhero, he is a "poker celebrity" as he has so aptly corrected nme in the past. It is his celebrity status that allows him access, whereas, others are forced to make monumental political contributions to achieve the same results.
Thanks for your help in getting the message out. I am a Celebrity, not a poker guru. Defending the right of players to play any two cards from any position. That's my mission in life, it's a thankless job but someone has to do it.
SPM,...over worked and under paid...
OK guys..we have a true hero THE MIGHTY SPM...next logical step FAN CLUB...hay do not lafff, think of what the elvis fan club brings in..think..poker hats..special dialogues with the master..special playing cards...hey endless possibilities..special rates for charter members too...
although spm may indeed need and deserve a fan club his head would no longer fit thru the casino door. plus poor vince lepore would feel left out in the cold and we all know his feeling are very tender.
"poor vince lepore would feel left out in the cold and we all know his feeling are very tender."
You know somethin Z, I've been pretty nice to you lately. I've only made a few Montana bear cracks and sheep notifications about you. But that can all change if you are not a little nicer to me. After all I am the president of the "Ray Zee Half Moon Fan Club". We named the club after your favorite drinking place, I mean thinking place, no, no that's stinking place. Anyway I'm sure all three fit but it's really that shed out in your back yard that is commonly referred to as "outhouse". So please be a little more careful with you vince lepore remarks or you will be put on my John Feeney list! I think you are probably a little upset with the idea of an SPM fan club for fear it will rival yours. Don't worry it will never happen. Not as long as vince lepore is president!
Hey, Can I be your Fan?
I did not ask for this, I will refuse all nominations, please don't be upset with me, I worship the pages you write on. Please Mr Lepore, I don't want a war. I'll join your Zee club what ever you ask is my command.
SPM,...in the fetal position...
Now how would you feel if I called you Mr. SPM? doesn't sound right now does it?
Vince... in the fecal position (sitting on the bowl for those that don't get it)
First Ray, now Vince, chatting from the johnnie
Uh, can we keep this "inside information" on a "need to know" basis please!
Thanks for helping. Should Vince hear about this I'll be in big trouble. I don't fear many people but Vince makes me nervious. He can cut to the quick faster than white on rice.
SPM,...nix the fan idea, Hollywood is non smoking any way...
Hollywood Casino Poker room is now non smoking. The members of the fan club, no longer need to bring their fans. So I guess your idea is a day late and a dollar short.
SPM,...now without the smoke we can see our cards...
Do you see the trouble you started. This kind of thing could get me impeached as the Mayor of Any2card Town. Where's Mason when you need him. He could have erased this whole thread and saved me form getting in trouble.
SPM,...don't quit your day job, I don't need no stinking side kick, I'M A CELEBRITY, not a super hero...
The Miami Herald has completed their recount, using the most liberal(ahem) standards, and surprise, Dub still wins.
There was, however, this interesting tidbit:
"On the Miami-Dade ballot, 736 voters made marks at hole No. 5, one below Bush's No. 4, and 1,017 voters made marks at hole No. 7, one below Gore's No. 6."
Further proof that Gore voters, both actual and aspiring, were/are stupider than Bush voters.
The Valley of Patience (VoP) Police Officer put the flashing red and blue lights on then over his car speaker the SPM heard him say in a loud and clear voice. "Pull over to the right side of the road sir." The SPM pulled over as requested because he was a law abiding citizen and he didn't think he could out run the police vehicle. "May I see your license to play and your visa card sir" the Officer requested. After looking at the SPM credentials, the Officer said "please step out of the vehicle sir, and blow in this here bag," "what's going on here Officer" said the SPM, "do you know who I am Officer," asked the SPM. "Yes your the Mayor of Any2card (A2CT) Town sir." replied the Officer. "That's right, so what's this nonsense about" snapped the SPM. "I've clocked you for the last ten rounds sir and your on tilt. The VoP has a no tilt law as you know Mayor. I see on my computer we have warned you about this three times this month alone." replied the Officer. "Look Officer A2CT is just across the street why don't we just forget about this one and I'll owe you one" requested the Mayor. "I guess I'll need to write up this ticket for bribery also" said the Officer.
The SPM was beginning to show signs of fatigue and started to get a little salty. "Listen you knuckle head, does this look like I'm on tilt, as he shoved the two stacks of chips in the face of the Officer. We call these chips winning chips, I'm not on tilt, I'm winning," cried the SPM. "Yes Mayor" said the Officer, "would you please blow in this bag." "No I will not!" said the SPM as he started to walk towards A2CT. "STOP OR I"LL SHOOT!" yelled the frantic VoP Police Officer. Just then 7 squad cars from A2CT tuned the corner and the Officers of A2CT pulled their weapons it was now 7 to 1 in favor of the SPM making to A2CT. The VoP Officer looked the situation over and decided to let the Mayor go without a fine. "OK Mayor," the Officer began, "you escaped without a loss this time, don't come thru here again on tilt. Next time you might not be so lucky." The VoP Officer returned to his Vehicle and drove away shaking his head. How was he going to write this report up. He thought for a moment, then decided to keep it short and sweet. Mayor of A2CT tilting in the winning lane, gave him a stern warning.
SPM,...sometimes it pays to be lucky...
and a good reminder.
The Federal Drug Administration is getting ready to release a new drug which will counter the effects of Maximus Chipimus Losimous, Otherwise Known as "TILT". It will be released pending the results of test cases which are in progress at Hollywood. The mayor of A2CT will announce it's release soon and will be passing out free samples at the A2CT courthouse. Keep your eyes and ears open for more info.
Why don't you go make up some more stories about Badger and post them publicly, you cowardly liar.
Anyone who likens an elected leader in a democratic society to a Nazi, just because he wants to cut taxes by less than 2% needs to get a grip on reality.
Dear Michael 7: please treat SmoothB with respect. He is my idol in this forum. You are over reacting to his comments. I know he is not a nazi and you are not a communist. Chill out. We have an unelected president in Mr, W. and we must "all get alone" for four years, until we get someone else in the White House.
First you're supposed to make a plan or forecast of revenues, then you're supposed to allocated the revenues into desireable streams of expenditure (we call these things "budgets"), then you work for the legislature to codify the budget into law so that the great collection and expenditure machine (the government) collects and spends according to the plan.
What he DID was promise that revenues that could have retired part, or all, of our ~$5,500,000,000,000 national debt be diverted to swell the bank accounts of our richest taxpayers. The debt? Well, hell, that's why poor people have children and grandchildren! Let THEM pay it off!! We're at the trough and we're gonna feed! (Urrp!)
Budget? Yeah, hell damn, I got one right here on the back of this napkin. Shows we can do all I said. Control government spending? Golly, shucks. We can do that too! Hand me another napkin and a flair pen, right quick.
What do I want from government?
1. I want them to leave me alone.
2. I want them to cost me less money.
These two goals are related. My father got (maybe) seven dollars back from Social Security for each dollar he put in. I'll get (maybe) one dollar back for each seven dollars I put in.
I'll strike this deal: you keep the money I've "invested" already; I won't file for a retirement pension; I'll keep the 15.3% levy for myself.
Yeah, right. When pigs fly.
Talk about needing a tax break. I'm a young guy with a wife and six month old kid. I'm starting a new job in the summer, and my pay doubles. Not as nice as it sounds because I jump up a bracket and will get taxed at 28%. 28%! My after tax income will only be 20% more than my gross income now. Talk about creating obstacles for a young family to get a leg up.
Trying to budget out my future income -- between mortgage and school debt -- I will have almost nothing to contribute to my retirement savings for several years. In that sense the tax code currently creates a circular dependence on Social Security.
I'm all for tax relief, but I think I may have some good news for you as your post indicates that you may not understan how the tax brackets work. When you move up a tax bracket, you don't pay the higher rate on the entire incremental amount, so it is impossible to have your gross pay double and your take-home pay only go up by 20%. Here are the tax brackets for a married couple filing jointly:
$0- $43,850 taxable income = 15% tax rate
43,850- 105,950 = 28%
105,950 - 161,450 =31%
161,450 - 288,350 = 36%
over $288,350 =39.6% (the Clinton "millionaire" bracket, lol)
So let's say you are at the cusp of the 15%/28% bracket, making $43,850 and your income doubles to $87,700.
You would still only pay federal tax 15% on the first $43,850 of income. You pay the 28% rate only on the amount ABOVE $43,850.
So ignoring state, FICA, and medicare taxes, your take-home pay would increase as follows:
Old net pay = $43,850 - .15*$43,850 =$37,273
New net pay = $87,700 - .15*$43,850 - .28*(87,700-43,850) = $68,844, an increase of 85%.
Of course, you have to pay state tax (probably 5-8%)and FICA/medicare of about 15% combined, but is isn't as bad as you might think.
Enjoy the generosity of your partner, the government for letting you keep about half of your well-earned pay increase. But remember, if you are fortunate enough to join the 28% bracket, then you are the among the "wealthy, Lexus-buying enemy" according to Gore, Gephart, Daschle and crew.
Sorry Michael. What I meant to say is that while my gross pay doubles my new take-home, after-tax pay will only be about 20% more than my gross now TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THE HIGHER TAX BRACKET, PAYROLL TAXES AND STATE TAXES. Sorry for the confusion.
I'm not trying to be like MikeD, but for some reason the long post that I just finished writing disappeared. So I'll meke this very short.
One of the easiest way for winners to make more money is to play more often. But, I know, your time is limited. But what if you can play more hands? You can do this by speeding up the game. So here it is...
by the way...
note 1: This concept may or may not apply to other casinos.
note 2: I'm half kidding but half seriouse about this post.
note 3: This concept is for the winners.
Concept No1. Buying Chips - Bring chips to the table, instead of buying at the table. This means no time to change money, more time to play and less time to fill. "No Fill = Good." Plus... if you re-buy at the third floor, it means less humiliation too.
Concept No2. New setup - Uncle Bob does a great job keeping the decks in good condition. It is very rare that a new setup is necessary. "Asking for a new setup = takes time = bad." But... if you are a loser, asking for a constant setup will slow down your losing rate.
Concept No3. Tip - If you want to tip 50c, buy a roll of halfs. Chopping $1 or $5 chips takes time. Plus... a roll of halfs allows you to keep track of how many pots you won.
Hence, the most important point of my unpublished concept is... "MORE HANDS = VERY GOOD!"
I think if everyone at Hollywood follows my advice, I, the winner, can endup making up to $1/h instead of 90c/h.
There's one other obvious way to make more money at Hollywood...
Stay out of Soh's way!.. : )
Soh the pro,
my friend I would have agreed with you about playing more hands in Hollywood except that within the past year or so this casino has generated numbers of gamblers ie.. entertainment players which is very difficult to push any two cards. Frequently, i have pissed of chips in the incidents where in the right mind one cannot call a hand but they do. I have had the most wicked nine day sessions. It wasn't pretty. I decided to go back to 20-40,30-60, and take it easy.
Good luck to you and may prosperity stay with you.
I think I have to agree with you on most part. However, what are you going to do about the dealers who deal 3 hands per half hour? I think at this time, you should play over someone at the 2.5-5 HE or even 1-5 stud. I think you'll make out better there. What do you think? Or maybe the nickel slots......
Actually when I'm waiting for a 10-20 game, I don't play 5-10 anymore but play 1-5 stud.
In terms of dealers, Hollywood got two new good dealers, Mike and Michelle.
by Soh Slow
Silly post. You guys get a life.
We'll have more tax cuts and the IRS will get more money? Sounds like a republican talking.
Sure, you'll get a tax cut if you make over 500K per year or if your rich relatives die. The rest of you aren't getting anything.
This is typical of the fuzzy thinking that is prevalent in America today. Most Americans are not capable of the critical thought necessary to sort all of these issues out, and that is why we have all these problems with the religious right, police and the justice system taking away our rights, etc.
'Well, why shouldn't the police have been able to chase that guy down an alley even though they didn't have probable cause. It turns out that he had drugs on him so it's justified.'
Typical American fuzzy thinking.
Who said anything about the IRS getting more money?
That is the last thing I want or advocate.
Who said anything about police search and seizure provisions?
I was talking about taxes and your slanderous post about Badger.
Just like a liberal, evade the argument and set up a straw man that you would prefer to argue against, rather than addressing the issue at hand.
btw, I don't have any rich relatives, but I make well over 500k, so I plead guilty to self interest in advocating a tax cut.
Tell me again why it is immoral for me to want to keep more of my money for myself, when you want to keep more of my money for yourself and others. Now THAT is fuzzy thinking.
First of all, my sincere apologies to Mason and the rest of the 2+2 forum for a recent posting I made. In the future I will refrain from making insulting posts about people who cannot defend themselves. (I was not aware that that individual was not permitted to post here any longer.)
Many of you have posted replies attacking ME about that post and it's truthfulness. Out of respect for Mason I have decided not to belabour the issue by continuing dialogue on this matter here. If you want to discuss this posting or the events described in it you may email me.
Once again, my apologies to Mason and the rest of the 2+2 forum.
His post under the thread Vegas Pros in the General section are the funniest I've seen in some time. Not only are the posts good satire, they also (as with all good satire) have an element of truth to them.
Boris-I couldn't agree more. While reading that thread this morning I came to the conclusion that Poker Veteran is a comedic genius, on par with Richard Pryor and Chris Rock. Whether or not he intends to be funny is irrelevant.
Boris-I couldn't agree more. While reading that thread this morning I came to the conclusion that Poker Veteran is a comedic genius, on par with Richard Pryor and Chris Rock. Whether or not he intends to be funny is irrelevant.
Hey thanks for the support KJS.
Too bad about Debbie's cancer, but then again she deserved it. I'll be out of the joint soon.
...that I brought up Cloutier's idea in that thread simply because of its relevance to the broader topic which was being discussed: the old question of which form of poker, limit or NL, is more complex.
"Wouldn't it be more of a test of your skills to play the O11 PL game than the CC 80?"
Heh, undoubtedly so... *my* skills, that is. But it wouldn't be so fun without guys with names like "reraise" or "cap it" or stuff like that in the game. :)
I'm with you and I understand where you are coming from. It wasn't always that way. Things changed three years ago when David came over for a visit and told Charmaine and I that he was actually King Solomon reincarnated.
The Gambling Exchange
February 2001 Digest is provided by Two Plus Two Publishing and ConJelCo